1. clareberry's Avatar
    You are exaggerating 'we'.
    i actually miss the LED notifiers by color.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    05-08-2015 09:38 PM
  2. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    This is an insane article at a couple of points in my opinion:

    1. Yes, it charges a premium that it then invests for the next product. But one shouldn't be fooled that is why the premiums we pay are so high. There are reasons why Apple's net worth is what it is and why their stock trades so high. Profits. Rather than make 70% gross on a phone, give some off, get 50% gross and expand your user base.

    2. Premium materials? This is laughable. What is so premium about an iPhone in regards to their materials? Internally they are a wash with most manufacturers. Externally they use aluminum, one of the most widely available, cheap, and fragile materials they could make a phone out of.
    1.) Why would a company lower their profit margin to increase their consumer base when their consumer base continues to grow exponentially with the margins where they are? You're approaching this purely from a consumer mindset...you're asking a company who sells a successful product to lower the price so more people can afford to own it.

    This not only makes no sense to a business in the state Apple is in, but it also diminishes the brand...would you ask Porsche to lower the price of their entry level cars to more closely match VW just because it would "grow" the amount of people at the bottom end that could buy into the brand?

    2.) It costs more to manufacture a smart phone out of aluminum vs. plastic...therefore Apple uses a premium material by using aluminum in comparison with most other smart phone manufacturers who still use plastics. Premium doesn't always equate to "best", sometimes it simply indicates "better" (and even then, it depends on the nature of the discussion). Based on price alone, Aluminum is a premium product compared to plastic.
    Last edited by SeanHRCC; 05-08-2015 at 09:51 PM.
    05-08-2015 09:40 PM
  3. Scatabrain's Avatar
    My comment about the cost of iCloud storage was a general statement...it was not insinuating anyone specifically could or could not afford it...calm down buddy.

    As far as priorities...I don't think you understand how complex a company the size of Apple's priorities can be. They are not just one or the other type deals...not anywhere near that black and white. Again (and I don't know why I'm having to say this again), they are a business, so of course profit margins are going to be at the forefront of their decision making...they wouldn't be a successful business if they operated outside of that basic parameter. Within that business model, you have several connective moves to achieve such...and growing their consumer base would obviously be front and center, and then you cycle down the other various things Apple does to retain the dominance they currently have.

    How is this a foreign idea? This is basic business. Apple is in the market to make money...they make money by growing their consumer base. It's a cycle...not a mutually exclusive formula.
    Not really sure what you hear when you read "Who said I couldn't afford it?" Weird.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    05-08-2015 09:51 PM
  4. boltz82's Avatar
    1.) Why would a company lower their profit margin to increase their consumer base when their consumer base continues to grow exponentially with the margins where they are? You're approaching this purely from a consumer mindset...you're asking a company who sells a successful product to lower the price so more people can afford to own it.

    This not only makes no sense to a business in the state Apple is in, but it also diminishes the brand...would you ask Porsche to lower the price of their entry level cars to more closely match VW just because it would "grow" the amount of people at the bottom end that could buy into the brand?

    2.) Aluminum costs more than plastic...most of the smart phone world uses plastic. Apple premium materials compared to most of it's competition.
    1. I understand your point about the consumer debate . It's certainly valid, but so is my point. Although your analogy doesn't hold water to me. Completely different aspects, although again I get your point.

    2. I strongly urge you to reconsider as you are incorrect, polycarbonate is more expensive than aluminum.

    2.
    05-08-2015 09:53 PM
  5. Scatabrain's Avatar
    My comment about the cost of iCloud storage was a general statement...it was not insinuating anyone specifically could or could not afford it...calm down buddy.

    As far as priorities...I don't think you understand how complex a company the size of Apple's priorities can be. They are not just one or the other type deals...not anywhere near that black and white. Again (and I don't know why I'm having to say this again), they are a business, so of course profit margins are going to be at the forefront of their decision making...they wouldn't be a successful business if they operated outside of that basic parameter. Within that business model, you have several connective moves to achieve such...and growing their consumer base would obviously be front and center, and then you cycle down the other various things Apple does to retain the dominance they currently have.

    How is this a foreign idea? This is basic business. Apple is in the market to make money...they make money by growing their consumer base. It's a cycle...not a mutually exclusive formula.
    Oh I ha a typo! That is way funny. I definitely don't talk that kind of jive!


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    05-08-2015 10:00 PM
  6. Scatabrain's Avatar
    Oh I ha a typo! That is way funny. I definitely don't talk that kind of jive!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    And i would never call Sean a ho.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    05-08-2015 10:09 PM
  7. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    1. I understand your point about the consumer debate . It's certainly valid, but so is my point. Although your analogy doesn't hold water to me. Completely different aspects, although again I get your point.

    2. I strongly urge you to reconsider as you are incorrect, polycarbonate is more expensive than aluminum.

    2.
    1.) My analogy is perfectly relevant...both Porsche and Apple are considered luxury brands. They don't make "entry level products" (as people generally define such), therefore lowering the price of their products diminishes the brand if the only rational for it is to bring in more consumers (in reflection of a lower price tag).

    2.) The material cost and cost to manufacture a product from such are two different things only related by the material itself. It costs more to manufacture a product like the iPhone out of aluminum than it does to manufacture it out of plastic...in this specific scenario, the aluminum material is a premium material...this is why the iPhone 5c was made out of plastic.
    05-08-2015 10:15 PM
  8. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    Not really sure what you hear when you read "Who said I couldn't afford it?" Weird.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Huh?

    And i would never call Sean a ho.
    You never know...I might like it.
    Scatabrain likes this.
    05-08-2015 10:16 PM
  9. Scatabrain's Avatar
    1.) My analogy is perfectly relevant...both Porsche and Apple are considered luxury brands. They don't make "entry level products" (as people generally define such), therefore lowering the price of their products diminishes the brand if the only rational for it is to bring in more consumers (in reflection of a lower price tag).

    2.) The material cost and cost to manufacture a product from such are two different things only related by the material itself. It costs more to manufacture a product like the iPhone out of aluminum than it does to manufacture it out of plastic...in this specific scenario, the aluminum material is a premium material...this is why the iPhone 5c was made out of plastic.
    That's just it Sean. I think expandable storage would expand below luxury. I think they can certainly afford it and benefit from more customers in new ways. They can always offer something higher end. The point is their choice of more storage as the premium offering is really not a premium tech. It's just an artificial higher price. Because they can.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    05-08-2015 10:44 PM
  10. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    That's just it Sean. I think expandable storage would expand below luxury. I think they can certainly afford it and benefit from more customers in new ways. They can always offer something higher end. The point is their choice of more storage as the premium offering is really not a premium tech. It's just an artificial higher price. Because they can.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    That's fine...you can think that just as others can think the opposite. The reality of it is though...Apple moved on from it a long time ago, and now their competition is moving away from it...so it is not a relevant tech anymore. People demanded cassette players for nearly 2 decades after other forms of media became the dominant source...but eventually, it just isn't relevant enough to expect in the consumer world.
    05-08-2015 10:54 PM
  11. Scatabrain's Avatar
    That's fine...you can think that just as others can think the opposite. The reality of it is though...Apple moved on from it a long time ago, and now their competition is moving away from it...so it is not a relevant tech anymore. People demanded cassette players for nearly 2 decades after other forms of media became the dominant source...but eventually, it just isn't relevant enough to expect in the consumer world.
    Flash storage is still relevant. It's the locking out of flexibility that is becoming more popular. And I'm not in favor of it.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    05-08-2015 11:39 PM
  12. Scatabrain's Avatar
    You do realize that "you" doesn't necessarily mean Scatabrain. We get it, you are not some poor schlub. You're flush with cash, and you're (Scatabrain) are just trying to help the little guy.

    Despite the spin that you are putting on this, it's not personal.
    I just think that many who debate here assume that their opinion is true or obvious. And they say 'we' and 'us' like there is only one way to see things. I'm out of new things to add to this thread so I'm gonna spare everyone by repeating opinion and moving on to something more interesting. Better to let a thread go cold then labor on once everyone's put in their $.02. Cheers.

    Long live removable storage!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    grover5 likes this.
    05-08-2015 11:46 PM
  13. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    Flash storage is still relevant. It's the locking out of flexibility that is becoming more popular. And I'm not in favor of it.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    That is your very cynical opinion...the reality is a much more simple concept of something not working as optimally as something else, so the optimal choice ends up being the preferred one...and ultimately the chosen one. Flash storage is still relevant in some things...I don't personally feel it's relevant to smart phones anymore, and the manufacturers seem to be in agreement by their decisions to abandon such.

    You want to know what's hilarious? I actually think external storage on the iPhone would have been great for certain things...I never thought it to be important, much less necessary...but it would have made certain things easier. I rarely share opinions like that because again, the tech is kind of singing it's swan song looking at market trends...so even if I loved it, who cares?

    I mean why would Samsung...arguably Apple's biggest smart phone competitor, abandon something that is supposedly so relevant and sought after in the market? If it's something so preferred in the Android world, why would their flagship devices throw it to the wind and go against such a "strong demand" (as you seem to indicate it is)?

    I just think that many who debate here assume that their opinion is true or obvious. And they say 'we' and 'us' like there is only one way to see things. I'm out of new things to add to this thread so I'm gonna spare everyone by repeating opinion and moving on to something more interesting. Better to let a thread go cold then labor on once everyone's put in their $.02. Cheers.

    Long live removable storage!
    I do think there are several users here that think that...it always makes me laugh. But I also think there is a flip side of that coin where we have a plethora of members here that don't know how to formulate a firm and logical counter to posts here, so they get frustrated, they either make it personal or they pretend like things are unfair so they walk away from the conversation. What does it hurt that we have such polar opposite opinions on this? My nature is to argue with you until you've sold me 110% on your stance, or you give up...I've done both in my 10,000+ posts here...but I'm never going to make it easy on you.

    I hate it when people throw in the towel or just resort to "Because I say so..." responses.
    05-09-2015 12:14 AM
  14. Scatabrain's Avatar
    That is your very cynical opinion...the reality is a much more simple concept of something not working as optimally as something else, so the optimal choice ends up being the preferred one...and ultimately the chosen one. Flash storage is still relevant in some things...I don't personally feel it's relevant to smart phones anymore, and the manufacturers seem to be in agreement by their decisions to abandon such.

    I mean why would Samsung...arguably Apple's biggest smart phone competitor, abandon something that is so relevant and sought after in the market? If it's something so preferred in the Android world, why would their flagship devices throw it to the wind and go against such a "strong demand" (as you seem to indicate it is)?



    I do think there are several users here that think that...it always makes me laugh. But I also think there is a flip side of that coin where we have a plethora of members here that don't know how to formulate a firm and logical counter to posts here, so they get frustrated, they either make it personal or they pretend like things are unfair so they walk away from the conversation. What does it hurt that we have such polar opposite opinions on this? My nature is to argue with you until you've sold me 110% on your stance, or you give up...I've done both in my 10,000+ posts here...but I'm never going to make it easy on you.

    I hate it when people throw in the towel or just resort to "Because I say so..." responses.
    It doesn't hurt at all. I just think sometimes it feels like repeating the same opinion back and forth. So instead of talking about how awesome removable storage could be we debate whether an analogy is correct, or parse words. I'd just like to hear from others rather then trying to think up new ways to say how awesome removable storage and blinky lights are.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    05-09-2015 12:18 AM
  15. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    It doesn't hurt at all. I just think sometimes it feels like repeating the same opinion back and forth. So instead of talking about how awesome removable storage could be we debate whether an analogy is correct, or parse words. I'd just like to hear from others rather then trying to think up new ways to say how awesome removable storage and blinky lights are.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    But is it not an acceptable rule or proper forum "etiquette" to expect the good with the bad?

    If you feel you're being repetitive, figure out another way to express your side of the fence that doesn't feel that way...I normally just revert to analogies, because they are easy to associate with the core of the argument, and I like to talk about cars so I get to do that at the same time, lol.

    I think removable storage had it's time, and could have made things easier, but the technology is becoming obsolete. That's my opinion. The facts that I've been plugging in here are simply reflective of market trends...nothing relevant to how I feel about them, just a simple observation of how they are functioning.

    As far as the LED lights...lol. I won't go there. Not here anyways.
    05-09-2015 12:23 AM
  16. qbnkelt's Avatar
    The argument isn't that it isn't good for them to charge as much as they can. There is no debate there. The debate is that they could prioritize having more users vs make more device money. The trend is give us less capable devices by default, push the locked in cloud and offer more device to those that can afford it. 200G is $3.99 a month! That's crazy expensive for some. Likewise the 100 for more 64g flash storage.

    The reason they do charge more is because they can. If users wanted external or cheaper storage bad enough they would do it. Guess how that kind of demand gets momentum? With discussions such as this.

    If we would like cheaper storage we should ask for it. Just like copy n paste, notifications, command center, extensions and on and on.

    Apple apologists said we were better off without most of those things and would cite all kinds of technical, business and market reasons why we don't have them. It's all hog wash.

    Fact is, many of us are still pining after many missing features that if we keep chattering about one day it may become a priority and get handled.

    You say Apple isn't a charity, it's a business. Well we can be Apple customers and not be sheep. If we ask enough, they will eventually get to it.

    External battery, storage and blinky lights may never see the light of day but we don't have to defend it or like it. As consumers we have a voice.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    First, I'm no Apple apologist. I'm a customer who, while using other products from other platforms, clearly and emphatically states that Apple's solutions work best for her. I do not pine away wishing for external storage because I got it on my device and on the cloud. THAT'S how I want it. It's not hog wash, it's my preference. Hog wash is buying one product knowing it doesn't offer X Y Z then bemoaning that fact to the high heavens after purchasing it.

    For those who don't agree there are other options until Apple changes.

    I have no need for external storage because the solutions Apple gives me, which I knew when I bought the products, work for me. That's not an apologist. That's a satisfied long time consumer who has already saved for the highest capacity version of the next largest size iPhone, whatever it will be called.

    Sent from my gorgeous sexy white BEAST of a Note 4 ❤
    05-09-2015 05:58 AM
  17. qbnkelt's Avatar
    Like I said before in this thread...it's funny how people guaranteed Apple would move to external storage eventually, but now the competitive manufacturers are moving away from it. Why? Because it's not going to happen.

    Consumers do have a voice. Consumers need to remember that with that voice, they have to use some common sense and logic. The second part of that is what is so often forgotten when a person starts "pining", and starts complaining that these "missing" features should be included on the iPhone. It has little to nothing to do with Apple apologists, it's just common sense. Reality, if you will.

    And again, how can you logically say that Apple's priorities don't include increasing their user base? They ALWAYS increase their user base...year after year after year. They give consumers what they want, and they do it while charging a price that people are obviously perfectly prepared to pay...IN DROVES.

    At the end of the day, the market as a whole is moving away from external storage in this regard...Apple just happened to be ahead of the game this time. Just because a niche of the market still clamors for it doesn't mean it has any momentum (See: LED notification light from BB devices, lol).

    And I have to focus in on something you said...the cost of iCloud storage is hilariously inexpensive. If you can't afford $50/year for 200GB of additional storage on top of your device investment (which transcends devices no less for eternity), why do you even own a smart phone? Such a tiny investment for almost twice the capacity of the largest storage option on the iPhone...and people complain about it? I bet you spend more charging your iPhone over a year than that costs...lol.
    I spend more than the monthly fee for cloud storage on Starbucks. Yet I still buy Starbucks. It's got what I like. I'm a Starbucks apologist I suppose.

    Sent from my gorgeous sexy white BEAST of a Note 4 ❤
    Last edited by qbnkelt; 05-09-2015 at 06:08 AM. Reason: Typo
    05-09-2015 06:02 AM
  18. boltz82's Avatar
    1.) My analogy is perfectly relevant...both Porsche and Apple are considered luxury brands. They don't make "entry level products" (as people generally define such), therefore lowering the price of their products diminishes the brand if the only rational for it is to bring in more consumers (in reflection of a lower price tag).

    2.) The material cost and cost to manufacture a product from such are two different things only related by the material itself. It costs more to manufacture a product like the iPhone out of aluminum than it does to manufacture it out of plastic...in this specific scenario, the aluminum material is a premium material...this is why the iPhone 5c was made out of plastic.
    I am going to chalk this up to having to agree to disagree. It seems that every valid point that someone has brought here that can be deemed ever so slightly against Apple you have debated. You make statements in which you present yourself as having facts while others present opinions. What knowledge base are you drawing from when you state that the cost to manufacture the iPhone out of aluminum cost more than it would out of plastic? Additionally, I stated polycarbonate, not plastic. There is a difference. The point that I make is that unless you are intricately involved with the design and development of the iPhone you are speculating just like myself and everyone else here. It just seems that you are accepting of everything Apple, that Apple can do no wrong.

    I also would argue as to why the 5C was made from plastic. While a more inexpensive version released that year it was mostly based on a previous generations hardware, thus driving the cost down.

    I am an owner of numerous iProducts. Long time fan. I received my first iPod in the early 2000s. After well over a decade of supporting Apple in one fashion or another I feel as though I have earned the right to critic. The facts are that Apple could charge far less for their memory and still turn a profit and have no impact on R&D. They could make their phones out of more premium and durable materials and not have to vary the price of the phone at all. Carl Ikahn values Apple somewhere between $700B and $1T. Some of that is due to what we, as consumers, are paying for their products. I believe a better analogy than the one you used is the jewelry maker Tiffany. Some of their most successful products are sterling silver, necklaces and bracelets. Is the quality of their products really better than that of their rivals? No. Did the R&D involved in developing those products exceed that of their rivals? No. They charge what they do because people are willing to pay for it. If they lowered the outrageous prices they charged for those items it is with a doubt more people would purchase them. Does that diminish the brand? I don't believe so. They still have their high end products, ie $26k engagement rings, etc. Apple is no different, they would still have their high end offerings as well.
    Scatabrain, grover5 and uumeshh like this.
    05-09-2015 06:45 AM
  19. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    I am going to chalk this up to having to agree to disagree. ...
    Thank you! That would be great.
    05-09-2015 09:11 AM
  20. Scatabrain's Avatar
    Consumers also have feet. At some point, you have to come to the realization that your wants (voiced) aren't coming - because Apple doesn't see the need or doesn't see your wants as viable and/or towards their end. You have to come to a place where you use your feet to take yourself to a product that meets your needs.

    It's always the same thing with this crowd. It it's not a blinky light, it's a memory card or a new notification center or something else that y'all are incapable of letting go of.
    And because of articles from great bloggers like Rene who voice these wants sometimes we eventually get some of these things. Optimistic me feels these bloggers like Rene might read forums. For some reason here this kind of discussion is met with adversity. Take a hint from Rene and others. We can have a voice. We don't have to accept everything. No one would ever suggest to Rene when he wants better notification customization to go get a different brand of phone. Why do you all do this to anyone here who is discussing features they would like? Some kind of wrong.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    05-09-2015 11:11 AM
  21. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    And because of articles from great bloggers like Rene who voice these wants sometimes we eventually get some of these things. Optimistic me feels these bloggers like Rene might read forums. For some reason here this kind of discussion is met with adversity. Take a hint from Rene and others. We can have a voice. We don't have to accept everything. No one would ever suggest to Rene when he wants better notification customization to go get a different brand of phone. Why do you all do this to anyone here who is discussing features they would like? Some kind of wrong.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    First of all, the thread question is "Can you insert a memory card into the iPhone?" Obviously, the answer is "no". After that, proponents of having a memory card option with the iPhone stated their desire for it. Opponents and others stated that it was not necessary. Both sides shared their opinions. Of course, that's never enough. Proponents push the issue and the opposition continues to stand their ground. After some time, proponents get frustrated and accuse the opposition of being unreasonable, mean-spirited and a discredit to the forums. When the opposition offers an alternative device that caters to the proponents desire, they balk. Bloggers like Ren have been around long enough to understand the various desires of people in regard to the things they prefer in a smartphone. He, like many of us, clearly understand that there is no "perfect" device and what may appear on one device may not appear on another due to licensing, patents or whatever. In summary, there is nothing wrong with wanting something, but there is also nothing wrong with not wanting something.
    qbnkelt likes this.
    05-09-2015 11:29 AM
  22. Scatabrain's Avatar
    First of all, the thread question is "Can you insert a memory card into the iPhone?" Obviously, the answer is "no". After that, proponents of having a memory card option with the iPhone stated their desire for it. Opponents and others stated that it was not necessary. Both sides shared their opinions. Of course, that's never enough. Proponents push the issue and the opposition continues to stand their ground. After some time, proponents get frustrated and accuse the opposition of being unreasonable, mean-spirited and a discredit to the forums. When the opposition offers an alternative device that caters to the proponents desire, they balk. Bloggers like Ren have been around long enough to understand the various desires of people in regard to the things they prefer in a smartphone. He, like many of us, clearly understand that there is no "perfect" device and what may appear on one device may not appear on another due to licensing, patents or whatever. In summary, there is nothing wrong with wanting something, but there is also nothing wrong with not wanting something.
    Nah. Just scanned it from front to back. The thread only goes off track because it is suggested people get over their wants. Really unfriendly.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    grover5 likes this.
    05-09-2015 11:33 AM
  23. Scatabrain's Avatar
    And the mod knows that now it's sufficiently off topic and can close it. It's a topic some don't want discussed and the pattern repeats. Sean is a rare one that stays on topic. Everyone else says get over it or get a different phone.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    05-09-2015 11:35 AM
  24. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    And the mod knows that now it's sufficiently off topic and can close it. It's a topic some don't want discussed and the pattern repeats. Sean is a rare one that stays on topic. Everyone else says get over it or get a different phone.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Unless the thread turns hostile on a personal level, there's no need to close the thread. Besides, what should have basically been an "agree to disagree" moment ended up being an "I'm right and you're wrong" issue. It happens in "every" forum everywhere.
    Last edited by Just_Me_D; 05-09-2015 at 12:46 PM.
    05-09-2015 11:40 AM
  25. xtremeled's Avatar
    That's fine...you can think that just as others can think the opposite. The reality of it is though...Apple moved on from it a long time ago, and now their competition is moving away from it...so it is not a relevant tech anymore. People demanded cassette players for nearly 2 decades after other forms of media became the dominant source...but eventually, it just isn't relevant enough to expect in the consumer world.
    Apple didn't "Move on from it" they never had it from the very start. What they did was offer you i Cloud and then "gave" you the opportunity to "Buy" more storage on a subscription basis. They told you what you should have, gave you a way to buy it and convinced you that it was in your best interest. Listen, I love my iPad, I like the iPhone. I don't love it and I think there are things about it that are just screwed up. Email is 1st on that list but, Apple has been in the business of convincing you that they know your needs better than you do. Great Company and some admittedly good products but not all of them are great.
    grover5 and uumeshh like this.
    05-09-2015 12:04 PM
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