1. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    There are other business friendly goals Apple could prioritize. Such as more customers. As a developer I would prefer more users.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    What on earth makes you think gaining more customers is not a priority in Apples business plan and future goals? Just because they don't buy or develop into certain features you see on other devices? That's a strange way to look at it (and by strange, I mean completely inaccurate).
    05-08-2015 03:27 PM
  2. qbnkelt's Avatar
    That's fair enough. I have never had any issues such as that despite having used them for years. I would ask though, don't you feel at all that Apple charges a bit more than is necessary? In fairness, the memory itself doesn't cost anywhere near what they are charging.
    No, I don't. I don't pay for just what's in the box. I pay for support, customer service, build quality, app quality, ecosystem, interoperability, dependability.

    So no....I pay the price that is fair. And I feel that what I paid for the iPhone 6 was fair.

    I have paid 150 bucks for a phone that was worth exactly that.....150 bucks. Because of lack of the things I mentioned. That phone had expandable memory but in the final analysis, it is a much poorer experience. So it was worth what I paid. That phone is a "flagship" phone that is currently selling for 649 retail. The expandable memory can't make up for the issues that are present on that device, and anyone paying full price for it is being robbed.
    05-08-2015 03:46 PM
  3. qbnkelt's Avatar
    Also, don't you feel that notifications on the iPhone could use improvement(s)?
    Sure, notifications could be improved. That said, I don't find them problematic, just not as robust as they could be.
    Just_Me_D likes this.
    05-08-2015 03:48 PM
  4. boltz82's Avatar
    Sure, notifications could be improved. That said, I don't find them problematic, just not as robust as they could be.
    Honest answer, thank you.
    05-08-2015 03:50 PM
  5. boltz82's Avatar
    No, I don't. I don't pay for just what's in the box. I pay for support, customer service, build quality, app quality, ecosystem, interoperability, dependability.

    So no....I pay the price that is fair. And I feel that what I paid for the iPhone 6 was fair.

    I have paid 150 bucks for a phone that was worth exactly that.....150 bucks. Because of lack of the things I mentioned. That phone had expandable memory but in the final analysis, it is a much poorer experience. So it was worth what I paid. That phone is a "flagship" phone that is currently selling for 649 retail. The expandable memory can't make up for the issues that are present on that device, and anyone paying full price for it is being robbed.
    I agree with everything that you said, and it was all correct in my opinion. The only debate that I have is this, you still will receive all of those things that you stated, "support, customer service, build quality, app quality, ecosystem, interoperability, dependability", whether you have a 32gb, 64gb, or 128gb phone. That doesn't change. Therefore with having to pay a minimum of $100 for each "upgrade" in memory, that is solely covering the cost of the memory and none of the aforementioned things. You are still paying a premium for memory. Something that costs Apple, the most expensive company in the world, pennies on the dollar. I am just saying it's out of whack. I would rather see Apple be more fair n the valuation of the memory and limit there profits there. Especially when they will make it up on the back end.
    uumeshh likes this.
    05-08-2015 03:56 PM
  6. qbnkelt's Avatar
    Sort of agree. Like expecting apps to be load able on card always was terrible. But that was a BB.

    It is quite conceivable that you could have media like photos, video and music on a card without any issue.

    It just happens that it goes against Apple wanting to have superficial product bumps based on something that is very cheap, certainly not worth $100.

    That's another reason they push the cloud. It has the added bonus of locking you in. These are not customer friendly motives for many that can't afford it big cloud storage and 100 flash upgrades.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Not necessarily. I had my SD on my 9900 constantly corrupt. Several. I didn't put an SD card on my Q10 because I simply didn't want to deal with the errors.

    I haven't got an SD card on my Note 4, my Lumia 1520, or my Passport. I simply use on board storage and that's photos and video because my media is on my iPhone.

    I like the cloud option and I prefer it over an SD card or local storage to a PC. My last backup to BlackBerry sits on Link. Inaccessible.

    For me the Apple solutions work best.


    Sent from my SEXY GORGEOUS AWESOME GOLD 128G iPhone 6
    05-08-2015 03:59 PM
  7. qbnkelt's Avatar
    I agree with everything that you said, and it was all correct in my opinion. The only debate that I have is this, you still will receive all of those things that you stated, "support, customer service, build quality, app quality, ecosystem, interoperability, dependability", whether you have a 32gb, 64gb, or 128gb phone. That doesn't change. Therefore with having to pay a minimum of $100 for each "upgrade" in memory, that is solely covering the cost of the memory and none of the aforementioned things. You are still paying a premium for memory. Something that costs Apple, the most expensive company in the world, pennies on the dollar. I am just saying it's out of whack. I would rather see Apple be more fair n the valuation of the memory and limit there profits there. Especially when they will make it up on the back end.
    True it's an extra 100 bucks each time. But as I see it as being able to have those things for even more media so I don't begrudge the charge.

    There is always the cloud option if the extra 100 is too much. For a teenager, I would say the price of the 16G is appropriate. Save to iCloud. For an adult it wouldn't be enough so the 64G at an extra 100 bucks is fair as I see it.

    Perhaps we see it differently due to different habits and use cases.


    Sent from my SEXY GORGEOUS AWESOME GOLD 128G iPhone 6
    05-08-2015 04:03 PM
  8. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    I agree with everything that you said, and it was all correct in my opinion. The only debate that I have is this, you still will receive all of those things that you stated, "support, customer service, build quality, app quality, ecosystem, interoperability, dependability", whether you have a 32gb, 64gb, or 128gb phone. That doesn't change. Therefore with having to pay a minimum of $100 for each "upgrade" in memory, that is solely covering the cost of the memory and none of the aforementioned things. You are still paying a premium for memory. Something that costs Apple, the most expensive company in the world, pennies on the dollar. I am just saying it's out of whack. I would rather see Apple be more fair n the valuation of the memory and limit there profits there. Especially when they will make it up on the back end.
    This is an illogical business approach. You want Apple to take a product that sells better than any other smart phone on the market, and you want them to make the pricing more "fair" compared to what they pay to develop it? There's not a company on the planet that runs like that...not a successful one anyways.

    Apple is a business...they aren't a charity. Lowering the price of their product to reflect what each and every consumer thinks is fair is a ridiculous approach to take...especially when they have found the sales success they have. We pay for the convenience of not having to develop, create, test, manufacture and support a product like the iPhone...what it costs the parent company is moot because the cost of parts is only a small % of what something ACTUALLY costs a company to sell to the consumer base.
    Just_Me_D likes this.
    05-08-2015 04:10 PM
  9. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    This is an illogical business approach. You want Apple to take a product that sells better than any other smart phone on the market, and you want them to make the pricing more "fair" compared to what they pay to develop it? There's not a company on the planet that runs like that...not a successful one anyways.

    Apple is a business...they aren't a charity. Lowering the price of their product to reflect what each and every consumer thinks is fair is a ridiculous approach to take...especially when they have found the sales success they have. We pay for the convenience of not having to develop, create, test, manufacture and support a product like the iPhone...what it costs the parent company is moot because the cost of parts is only a small % of what something ACTUALLY costs a company to sell to the consumer base.
    Being that you've stated almost exactly what I was going to state, I'll just keep reading in silence....
    05-08-2015 04:25 PM
  10. Scatabrain's Avatar
    This is an illogical business approach. You want Apple to take a product that sells better than any other smart phone on the market, and you want them to make the pricing more "fair" compared to what they pay to develop it? There's not a company on the planet that runs like that...not a successful one anyways.

    Apple is a business...they aren't a charity. Lowering the price of their product to reflect what each and every consumer thinks is fair is a ridiculous approach to take...especially when they have found the sales success they have. We pay for the convenience of not having to develop, create, test, manufacture and support a product like the iPhone...what it costs the parent company is moot because the cost of parts is only a small % of what something ACTUALLY costs a company to sell to the consumer base.
    The argument isn't that it isn't good for them to charge as much as they can. There is no debate there. The debate is that they could prioritize having more users vs make more device money. The trend is give us less capable devices by default, push the locked in cloud and offer more device to those that can afford it. 200G is $3.99 a month! That's crazy expensive for some. Likewise the 100 for more 64g flash storage.

    The reason they do charge more is because they can. If users wanted external or cheaper storage bad enough they would do it. Guess how that kind of demand gets momentum? With discussions such as this.

    If we would like cheaper storage we should ask for it. Just like copy n paste, notifications, command center, extensions and on and on.

    Apple apologists said we were better off without most of those things and would cite all kinds of technical, business and market reasons why we don't have them. It's all hog wash.

    Fact is, many of us are still pining after many missing features that if we keep chattering about one day it may become a priority and get handled.

    You say Apple isn't a charity, it's a business. Well we can be Apple customers and not be sheep. If we ask enough, they will eventually get to it.

    External battery, storage and blinky lights may never see the light of day but we don't have to defend it or like it. As consumers we have a voice.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    uumeshh likes this.
    05-08-2015 04:30 PM
  11. kch50428's Avatar
    As consumers we have a voice.
    As a consumer, you also have the choice to buy devices that have the things you are nonplussed the iPhone doesn't have...
    05-08-2015 04:34 PM
  12. HankAZ's Avatar
    Also, don't you feel that notifications on the iPhone could use improvement(s)?
    Sure, notifications could be improved. That said, I don't find them problematic, just not as robust as they could be.
    And even so, the butt-ugly hot mess of blackberry hub is NOT the answer to any iPhone notification deficiency. On any planet. In any lifetime.
    kch50428 and qbnkelt like this.
    05-08-2015 04:48 PM
  13. HankAZ's Avatar
    As consumers we have a voice.
    Consumers also have feet. At some point, you have to come to the realization that your wants (voiced) aren't coming - because Apple doesn't see the need or doesn't see your wants as viable and/or towards their end. You have to come to a place where you use your feet to take yourself to a product that meets your needs.

    It's always the same thing with this crowd. It it's not a blinky light, it's a memory card or a new notification center or something else that y'all are incapable of letting go of.
    kch50428 and hydrogen3 like this.
    05-08-2015 04:53 PM
  14. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    The argument isn't that it isn't good for them to charge as much as they can. There is no debate there. The debate is that they could prioritize having more users vs make more device money. The trend is give us less capable devices by default, push the locked in cloud and offer more device to those that can afford it. 200G is $3.99 a month! That's crazy expensive for some. Likewise the 100 for more 64g flash storage.

    The reason they do charge more is because they can. If users wanted external or cheaper storage bad enough they would do it. Guess how that kind of demand gets momentum? With discussions such as this.

    If we would like cheaper storage we should ask for it. Just like copy n paste, notifications, command center, extensions and on and on.

    Apple apologists said we were better off without most of those things and would cite all kinds of technical, business and market reasons why we don't have them. It's all hog wash.

    Fact is, many of us are still pining after many missing features that if we keep chattering about one day it may become a priority and get handled.

    You say Apple isn't a charity, it's a business. Well we can be Apple customers and not be sheep. If we ask enough, they will eventually get to it.

    External battery, storage and blinky lights may never see the light of day but we don't have to defend it or like it. As consumers we have a voice.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Like I said before in this thread...it's funny how people guaranteed Apple would move to external storage eventually, but now the competitive manufacturers are moving away from it. Why? Because it's not going to happen.

    Consumers do have a voice. Consumers need to remember that with that voice, they have to use some common sense and logic. The second part of that is what is so often forgotten when a person starts "pining", and starts complaining that these "missing" features should be included on the iPhone. It has little to nothing to do with Apple apologists, it's just common sense. Reality, if you will.

    And again, how can you logically say that Apple's priorities don't include increasing their user base? They ALWAYS increase their user base...year after year after year. They give consumers what they want, and they do it while charging a price that people are obviously perfectly prepared to pay...IN DROVES.

    At the end of the day, the market as a whole is moving away from external storage in this regard...Apple just happened to be ahead of the game this time. Just because a niche of the market still clamors for it doesn't mean it has any momentum (See: LED notification light from BB devices, lol).

    And I have to focus in on something you said...the cost of iCloud storage is hilariously inexpensive. If you can't afford $50/year for 200GB of additional storage on top of your device investment (which transcends devices no less for eternity), why do you even own a smart phone? Such a tiny investment for almost twice the capacity of the largest storage option on the iPhone...and people complain about it? I bet you spend more charging your iPhone over a year than that costs...lol.
    qbnkelt likes this.
    05-08-2015 04:57 PM
  15. iEd's Avatar
    This is from a article that Karen Coulter posted a while ago.

    Business Models

    Apples business model is straightforward: It aims to make the best products in the world by designing hardware, software, and services in tandem. Because Apples products are meaningfully different than those of its competitors, the company can charge a premium for them, which it invests into making better products. These new products are then sold at a premium, and the company then takes some of that premium to design the next generation of products. Its a self-perpetuating cycle: The premiums from one generation of products funds the development of the next.
    Over the last decade, Apple has learned how to manufacture complex products with incredible fit and finish at a scale thats unprecedented in human history. Apple manufactured 34,000 iPhones per hour last quarter, yet iPhones feel nice in a way that few objects, manufactured at any scale, do. This is because of the way theyre made and because of the materials theyre made with.

    Apple invests in manufacturing innovation and uses premium materials because its goal is to make the best phone in the world, and the nicer your iPhone feels, the better it is. Android OEMs, on the other hand, either dont make enough money to invest in manufacturing and materials the way Apple does, or they dont see a return that justifies the investment. iPhones are nicer than Android phones because of Apples business model.

    http://mattrichman.net/post/11530751...and-the-coming




    Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus using Tapatalk
    05-08-2015 04:58 PM
  16. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    Some people complain about Apple's lack of features in comparison to its competitors. Others complain that their products are too expensive for what they offer. Both defend their opinions by saying that if they only provided what their competitors provide and drop the price a little then they can gain more customers. It's as if they are looking out for Apple's best interest when in fact they're looking out for their own. Like any successful company, Apple has invested millions into research & development and have decided on the best course of action for the goals it has set for itself. That course of action has allowed it to become the most successful company in the world and therefore, they don't need to lower prices or offer certain features in an attempt to gain more customers. Heck, as already stated, they're acquiring new customers as we speak. At this point, some will say, "look what happened to IBM or RIM. If Apple doesn't change, it too will see a similar downfall. Newsflash! Nothing and no one stays on top forever - not even Apple. A new generation of young people will likely come along and view it as the Buick of the technology world, i.e., something from their parents' and grandparents' era and then shy away from it. Anyway, my point is this: Apple does not need to incorporate every feature that its competitors have in order to be successful and gain more customers. It is the standard by which all others are compared.
    Last edited by Just_Me_D; 05-08-2015 at 08:10 PM.
    kch50428 and qbnkelt like this.
    05-08-2015 06:50 PM
  17. iOS Gravity's Avatar
    ...People made a big deal out of bendgate, but don't know that the phone they complained about for a month has no SD slot...
    05-08-2015 07:57 PM
  18. Scatabrain's Avatar
    Like I said before in this thread...it's funny how people guaranteed Apple would move to external storage eventually, but now the competitive manufacturers are moving away from it. Why? Because it's not going to happen.

    Consumers do have a voice. Consumers need to remember that with that voice, they have to use some common sense and logic. The second part of that is what is so often forgotten when a person starts "pining", and starts complaining that these "missing" features should be included on the iPhone. It has little to nothing to do with Apple apologists, it's just common sense. Reality, if you will.

    And again, how can you logically say that Apple's priorities don't include increasing their user base? They ALWAYS increase their user base...year after year after year. They give consumers what they want, and they do it while charging a price that people are obviously perfectly prepared to pay...IN DROVES.

    At the end of the day, the market as a whole is moving away from external storage in this regard...Apple just happened to be ahead of the game this time. Just because a niche of the market still clamors for it doesn't mean it has any momentum (See: LED notification light from BB devices, lol).

    And I have to focus in on something you said...the cost of iCloud storage is hilariously inexpensive. If you can't afford $50/year for 200GB of additional storage on top of your device investment (which transcends devices no less for eternity), why do you even own a smart phone? Such a tiny investment for almost twice the capacity of the largest storage option on the iPhone...and people complain about it? I bet you spend more charging your iPhone over a year than that costs...lol.
    I agree it won't happen. I can still want it.
    They are prioritizing margin over more users for sure. For Macbook Pro I get it. I think they would be better at this point by easing up on margins to grow users. That's my opinion. Yours is different, neither is 'common sense'.
    Ho said I can't afford it?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    05-08-2015 08:09 PM
  19. Scatabrain's Avatar
    Some people complain about Apple's lack of feature in comparison to its competitors. Others complain that their products are too expensive for what they offer. Both defend their opinions by saying that if they only provided what their competitors provide and drop the price a little then they can gain more customers. It's as if they are looking out for Apple's best interest when in fact they're looking out for their own. Like any successful company, Apple has invested millions into research & development and have decided on the best course of action for the goals it has set for itself. That course of action has allowed it to become the most successful company in the world and therefore, they don't need to lower prices or offer certain features in an attempt to gain more customers. Heck, as already stated, they're acquiring new customers as we speak. At this point, some will say, "look what happened to IBM or RIM. If Apple doesn't change, it too will see a similar downfall. Newsflash! Nothing and no one stays on top forever - not even Apple. A new generation of young people will likely come along and view it as the Buick of the technology world, i.e., something from their parents' and grandparents' era and then shy away from it. Anyway, my point is this: Apple does not need to incorporate every feature that its competitors have in order to be successful and gain more customers. It is the standard by which all others are compared.
    Who's complaining? Just wish they weren't so closed off in every aspect. Still by far the best devices and system. But as a user think it could be even better.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    05-08-2015 08:11 PM
  20. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    Who's complaining? Just wish they weren't so closed off in every aspect. Still by far the best devices and system. But as a user think it could be even better.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Of course, it can be better, but being better doesn't necessarily mean adding the features I want or the features you want, at least not in regard to what's better for customers "overall".
    05-08-2015 08:15 PM
  21. boltz82's Avatar
    This is from a article that Karen Coulter posted a while ago.

    Business Models

    Apples business model is straightforward: It aims to make the best products in the world by designing hardware, software, and services in tandem. Because Apples products are meaningfully different than those of its competitors, the company can charge a premium for them, which it invests into making better products. These new products are then sold at a premium, and the company then takes some of that premium to design the next generation of products. Its a self-perpetuating cycle: The premiums from one generation of products funds the development of the next.
    Over the last decade, Apple has learned how to manufacture complex products with incredible fit and finish at a scale thats unprecedented in human history. Apple manufactured 34,000 iPhones per hour last quarter, yet iPhones feel nice in a way that few objects, manufactured at any scale, do. This is because of the way theyre made and because of the materials theyre made with.

    Apple invests in manufacturing innovation and uses premium materials because its goal is to make the best phone in the world, and the nicer your iPhone feels, the better it is. Android OEMs, on the other hand, either dont make enough money to invest in manufacturing and materials the way Apple does, or they dont see a return that justifies the investment. iPhones are nicer than Android phones because of Apples business model.

    http://mattrichman.net/post/11530751...and-the-coming




    Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus using Tapatalk
    This is an insane article at a couple of points in my opinion:

    1. Yes, it charges a premium that it then invests for the next product. But one shouldn't be fooled that is why the premiums we pay are so high. There are reasons why Apple's net worth is what it is and why their stock trades so high. Profits. Rather than make 70% gross on a phone, give some off, get 50% gross and expand your user base.

    2. Premium materials? This is laughable. What is so premium about an iPhone in regards to their materials? Internally they are a wash with most manufacturers. Externally they use aluminum, one of the most widely available, cheap, and fragile materials they could make a phone out of.
    uumeshh likes this.
    05-08-2015 09:03 PM
  22. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Of course, it can be better, but being better doesn't necessarily mean adding the features I want or the features you want, at least not in regard to what's better for customers "overall".
    I think this is a very fair point.

    Again, avoiding unnecessary or premature feature creep is a skill Apple seems to have mastered.
    Just_Me_D likes this.
    05-08-2015 09:06 PM
  23. HankAZ's Avatar
    I agree it won't happen. I can still want it.
    They are prioritizing margin over more users for sure. For Macbook Pro I get it. I think they would be better at this point by easing up on margins to grow users. That's my opinion. Yours is different, neither is 'common sense'.
    Ho said I can't afford it?
    Who are you calling a "Ho"? #bwahaha

    By buying Apple's products, you are subsidizing their business model - and supporting the decisions that they have made with what they manufacture and sell. The profit realized on the devices that you bought simply tells them that you agree with what you are doing. Can't have it both ways.
    qbnkelt likes this.
    05-08-2015 09:06 PM
  24. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    I agree it won't happen. I can still want it.
    They are prioritizing margin over more users for sure. For Macbook Pro I get it. I think they would be better at this point by easing up on margins to grow users. That's my opinion. Yours is different, neither is 'common sense'.
    Ho said I can't afford it?
    My comment about the cost of iCloud storage was a general statement...it was not insinuating anyone specifically could or could not afford it...calm down buddy.

    As far as priorities...I don't think you understand how complex a company the size of Apple's priorities can be. They are not just one or the other type deals...not anywhere near that black and white. Again (and I don't know why I'm having to say this again), they are a business, so of course profit margins are going to be at the forefront of their decision making...they wouldn't be a successful business if they operated outside of that basic parameter. Within that business model, you have several connective moves to achieve such...and growing their consumer base would obviously be front and center, and then you cycle down the other various things Apple does to retain the dominance they currently have.

    How is this a foreign idea? This is basic business. Apple is in the market to make money...they make money by growing their consumer base. It's a cycle...not a mutually exclusive formula.
    05-08-2015 09:27 PM
  25. iEd's Avatar
    This is an insane article at a couple of points in my opinion:

    1. Yes, it charges a premium that it then invests for the next product. But one shouldn't be fooled that is why the premiums we pay are so high. There are reasons why Apple's net worth is what it is and why their stock trades so high. Profits. Rather than make 70% gross on a phone, give some off, get 50% gross and expand your user base.

    2. Premium materials? This is laughable. What is so premium about an iPhone in regards to their materials? Internally they are a wash with most manufacturers. Externally they use aluminum, one of the most widely available, cheap, and fragile materials they could make a phone out of.
    So what should they make a phone out of? Samsung had been using plastic and pretty much charge the same as a iPhone.
    When you say expand your base. Dude what reality are you living in?


    Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus using Tapatalk
    05-08-2015 09:29 PM
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