Nerfed NFC. WTF, Apple?

Just_Me_D

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I'm neither open-minded or practical?
I don't think so.
Who doesn't know who?
You
You make the bold statement that I don't know you then proceed to make wild assumptions about me. Brilliant!
Brilliant? No. Honest? Definitely.

You people seem to fail to understand that NFC functionality is totally separate from Apple Pay.
I do not misunderstand, and it is irrelevant. The statement was made in regard to Apple limiting its function.
Apple can still make Apple Pay secure without gimping NFC functionality.
I did not say that they couldn't. The fact still remains that they don't have to. Period.
One does not necessitate the other.
Never said it did.
Apple Pay simply uses NFC technology to accomplish a task.
Yep.

I searched Google today, but I failed to find any confirmed instances of someone hacking a phone through NFC.
Okay. So.
So, I guess it's not as much of a security risk as some would like us to believe.
You've come to that conclusion because you couldn't find an instance of there being one via a Google search.

Just because we know it's a closed ecosystem doesn't mean that it's okay.
Neither does it mean that it's not okay.
This is a forum. Forums are used for discussion and sometimes venting. I'm allowed to gripe about the way a company chose to implement a feature on a $1000 piece of hardware (that I bought). I'm not obligated to perceive it as a perfect product, just because it was designed by a certain company.
Very true, and are we not having a conversation in a forum?

On Android, you can turn off NFC, if you're not using it. It remains to be seen if you can do this on iPhone, but if you can't, you're basically getting (slightly) reduced battery life for the privilege of one feature, which, let's face it, many average consumers probably won't use to begin with.
But you see, that's a personal thing. Not everyone will look at it the way you do or even care.
I'm not saying it'll be a drastic hit, but if you're going to force me to leave NFC on all the time, at least give me other uses for it.
Understandable

At the end of the day, this post went about how I expected. If I had posted it in an Android forum or a general forum, there may have been a few objective responses. Instead, I posted it in an iPhone forum where the blinders are on in full.
That's a bunch of crock, and you know it. The blinders are not on. We simply are looking at this from opposite perspectives.
It's funny that you accuse me of not being open-minded or practical when I'm the one who owns multiple smartphones from multiple platforms, with a new iPhone on the way.
What's funny is my common sense response has apparently gotten under your skin.
If anything, I'm the most objective person here.
Okay
And I'm sorry if living in the Apple Ecosystem for so long makes some people incapable of objectivity because when you blindly defend a product's flaws, you come across as a cultist.
Crippling NFC capabilities is not a "flaw". It is a decision.

I suppose that limiting the original iPhone to 2G when 3G was prevalent was okay. Or choosing radios that would not allow you to surf the internet over LTE while on a phone call was all "part of the plan". Even though other manufactures had no issue implementing these features in their phones.
And yet, the crippled iPhone sold more and continues to sell more than all of them.
You can rationalize a defense for anything if you're invested in a product. Being objective is much harder.
Not really.

I bought an iPhone 6 Plus because I wanted one. But, like every other product on the market, it's not perfect.
We're in agreement here.
This post wasn't about bashing Apple. It was literally about asking "why would they do that"? I guess I'm just not as complacent is some of the rest of you.
True, and several of us responded with various answers.
 

swarlos

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I would rather take Apple's "gimped" NFC over Android NFC. Over the years how many Android fans have touted and snubbed the iPhone for not having NFC yet Google never got Wallet off the ground, Android Beam was a joke and its not even touted as a feature anymore (I mean seriously who wants to share crap by tapping phones!! LOL @ Samsung ad) and whatever other crap NFC does.

It just goes to show that when Apple implements something they do it better than any other OEM and look at how many partners they already have for ApplePay, Google wishes they had half that many if at all LOL.
 

Evilguppy

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I would rather take Apple's "gimped" NFC over Android NFC. Over the years how many Android fans have touted and snubbed the iPhone for not having NFC yet Google never got Wallet off the ground, Android Beam was a joke and its not even touted as a feature anymore (I mean seriously who wants to share crap by tapping phones!! LOL @ Samsung ad) and whatever other crap NFC does.

It just goes to show that when Apple implements something they do it better than any other OEM and look at how many partners they already have for ApplePay, Google wishes they had half that many if at all LOL.

This is spot on.
 

BreakingKayfabe

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I would rather take Apple's "gimped" NFC over Android NFC. Over the years how many Android fans have touted and snubbed the iPhone for not having NFC yet Google never got Wallet off the ground, Android Beam was a joke and its not even touted as a feature anymore (I mean seriously who wants to share crap by tapping phones!! LOL @ Samsung ad) and whatever other crap NFC does.

It just goes to show that when Apple implements something they do it better than any other OEM and look at how many partners they already have for ApplePay, Google wishes they had half that many if at all LOL.

I preached here in the past about how when one day Apple uses NFC technology on their devices, it wouldn't be called NFC. It would be coined a term made my Apple. In this case, Apple Pay. People are confusing the new iPhones coming with the Apple Pay feature and a NFC feature. Just because Apple Pay uses NFC technology, it doesn't mean the NFC on it is going to be used for what it can be used for by other phone manufacturers. Whoever actually thought that NFC on the iPhone right out of the gate would be the same as having it on a Nexus device or something like that mixed their Vicodin with the wrong cocktail.

Just because it's there, it doesn't mean it shouldn't have the time to be done right in all aspects.

And boy, is Google Wallet going to be dead now.
 

swarlos

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I preached here in the past about how when one day Apple uses NFC technology on their devices, it wouldn't be called NFC. It would be coined a term made my Apple. In this case, Apple Pay. People are confusing the new iPhones coming with the Apple Pay feature and a NFC feature. Just because Apple Pay uses NFC technology, it doesn't mean the NFC on it is going to be used for what it can be used for by other phone manufacturers. Whoever actually thought that NFC on the iPhone right out of the gate would be the same as having it on a Nexus device or something like that mixed their Vicodin with the wrong cocktail.

Just because it's there, it doesn't mean it shouldn't have the time to be done right in all aspects.

And boy, is Google Wallet going to be dead now.

Hahaha right?! I don't understand it the other side should know by now how Apple handles these new features and even when I owned an Android phone with all the NFC features available I never used them once and let alone Wallet because the only carrier Google managed to get on board with them was Sprint.

ApplePay is a game changer and the nay sayers can suck it! Haha.
 

gravage

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I would rather take Apple's "gimped" NFC over Android NFC. Over the years how many Android fans have touted and snubbed the iPhone for not having NFC yet Google never got Wallet off the ground, Android Beam was a joke and its not even touted as a feature anymore (I mean seriously who wants to share crap by tapping phones!! LOL @ Samsung ad) and whatever other crap NFC does.

It just goes to show that when Apple implements something they do it better than any other OEM and look at how many partners they already have for ApplePay, Google wishes they had half that many if at all LOL.
Oh, brother. It's not that Apple has a superior implementation, it's that Apple has mindshare. Most Apple users are oblivious to the fact that the services already exist on other platforms. For them, Apple just invented it. Mobile payments will take off now, simply because the mindless, uninformed drones now know that it exists through Apple. They made a good move with the partnerships, but there was nothing wrong with Google Wallet. Google simply had to fight carriers and merchants and they lost. Apple has more clout.

People seem to overlook how badly passbook bombed.
 

michikade

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I like passbook for one thing TOTAL - lock screen Starbucks card. Other than that I never ever use it. Heh.


Sent from my iPhone 5 while anticipating my 6+ with bated breath using Tapatalk
 

anon(4698833)

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Oh, brother. It's not that Apple has a superior implementation, it's that Apple has mindshare. Most Apple users are oblivious to the fact that the services already exist on other platforms. For them, Apple just invented it. Mobile payments will take off now, simply because the mindless, uninformed drones now know that it exists through Apple. They made a good move with the partnerships, but there was nothing wrong with Google Wallet. Google simply had to fight carriers and merchants and they lost. Apple has more clout.

People seem to overlook how badly passbook bombed.

Q93TOT0.gif


I constantly have to remind myself that most of you will be gone in a few days...phew!
 

jdhooghe

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Throughout my years of phone hopping, I have come to realize this:
Apple does indeed roll out features later than the competitors, and oftentimes in limited fashion, that is true.
But when they do, it's been tested and retested, tweaked, fixed, tested again, and by the time it shows up in the customer's grubby fingers, it works... like butter.
I guess it's a quality over quantity thing.

Do I like the multi bells and whistles from Androids? Hell yeah. ... Until they start hiccuping and sputtering and acting like a bipolar jumping bean on crack, that is.

So, I'll bite smaller, chew longer... And not choke. :D

OMG this is amazing. I sputtered my drink just reading this. Perfect description of Android XD
 

jdhooghe

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I'm neither open-minded or practical? Who doesn't know who? You make the bold statement that I don't know you then proceed to make wild assumptions about me. Brilliant!

First of all, chill. Throughout your post you attempted to insult many. Stop it. Many of us HAVE gone to other platforms and we do KNOW the dangers of implementing technology too fast. It's unstable and unsafe.

You people seem to fail to understand that NFC functionality is totally separate from Apple Pay. Apple can still make Apple Pay secure without gimping NFC functionality. One does not necessitate the other. Apple Pay simply uses NFC technology to accomplish a task.

I searched Google today, but I failed to find any confirmed instances of someone hacking a phone through NFC. So, I guess it's not as much of a security risk as some would like us to believe.

http://www.nearfieldcommunication.org/nfc-security.html Here's a list of possible threats. Take a look at that last one. The reason why Apple has not included NFC is because retailers didn't offer it. Now that Apple is on board things will be different. Risk is about to get a whole LOT greater. Not taking precaution is VERY DANGEROUS and can cause Apple's stock to come crashing. Look at the damage some of those other security risks have done.

Just because we know it's a closed ecosystem doesn't mean that it's okay. This is a forum. Forums are used for discussion and sometimes venting. I'm allowed to gripe about the way a company chose to implement a feature on a $1000 piece of hardware (that I bought). I'm not obligated to perceive it as a perfect product, just because it was designed by a certain company.

If you want a completely open system, there is Android but you knew in your heart of hearts Apple doesn't do things like Android. You went into this fully knowing what to expect from Apple and are throwing a tantrum when it turns out to be true. Just because you spent $1000 on a piece of hardware DOES NOT MEAN you are capable of making design conditions of the OS. You're just going to have to put in the minuscule extra effort to turn on your device until Apple works the dangers out.

On Android, you can turn off NFC, if you're not using it. It remains to be seen if you can do this on iPhone, but if you can't, you're basically getting (slightly) reduced battery life for the privilege of one feature, which, let's face it, many average consumers probably won't use to begin with. I'm not saying it'll be a drastic hit, but if you're going to force me to leave NFC on all the time, at least give me other uses for it.

The fact that one of the many things you had to do to make the battery life decent on an Android device was to turn off NFC says otherwise. I do not know the design of the chips so I or anyone else that isn't a hardware engineer can say if it does or not. Seeing how you are able to turn bluetooth on and off, I kind of think they are going to include the option for NFC.

At the end of the day, this post went about how I expected. If I had posted it in an Android forum or a general forum, there may have been a few objective responses. Instead, I posted it in an iPhone forum where the blinders are on in full. It's funny that you accuse me of not being open-minded or practical when I'm the one who owns multiple smartphones from multiple platforms, with a new iPhone on the way. If anything, I'm the most objective person here. And I'm sorry if living in the Apple Ecosystem for so long makes some people incapable of objectivity because when you blindly defend a product's flaws, you come across as a cultist.
You are not open minded because you can't seem to get over the Android way of thinking where the doors are wide open. You are no longer in Kansas, Sunshine. You're in Apple land now. You do not have ultimate control. Get used to it. Here's another article about the dangers of NFC: Researchers use shopping cart to put mobile, NFC payment theft on wheels | ZDNet Apparently you didn't look hard enough. Do you think Android has the influence Apple has on most retailers that this could not open up a HUGE can of worms. Seriously. You should start thinking objectively. Instead it's "ME, ME, ME. I want this NOW!" And you have apparently not thought about anything other than your bluetooth speaker
I suppose that limiting the original iPhone to 2G when 3G was prevalent was okay. Or choosing radios that would not allow you to surf the internet over LTE while on a phone call was all "part of the plan". Even though other manufactures had no issue implementing these features in their phones. You can rationalize a defense for anything if you're invested in a product. Being objective is much harder.
You say you had all the phones so you surely remember what LTE was like right? Probably not seeing how you conveniently forget how much of a power hog it was. How available was LTE when it was first introduced? You seem to be forgetting a lot of things.
I bought an iPhone 6 Plus because I wanted one. But, like every other product on the market, it's not perfect. This post wasn't about bashing Apple. It was literally about asking "why would they do that"? I guess I'm just not as complacent is some of the rest of you.
Easy. Learn respect. Don't belittle someone and don't act like a spoiled child when you don't get your way. Have a discussion not a ***** session.
 

Coachbulldog

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Oh, brother. It's not that Apple has a superior implementation, it's that Apple has mindshare. Most Apple users are oblivious to the fact that the services already exist on other platforms. For them, Apple just invented it.

Most Apple users have no clue because it doesn't matter to them what other platforms do. The majority of iPhone users have never read a tech blog, posted on a Mobile Nations platform, or given a second thought to what Android, Windows, or BlackBerry devices can or can't do. When a feature comes to their device it is new to them. What difference does it make who they think "invented" it?

Mobile payments will take off now, simply because the mindless, uninformed drones now know that it exists through Apple.

I never understood the immaturity some display calling folks that choose another platform than them names. I can't relate to that kind of anger and bitterness. That said, you're wrong about why it will succeed. Apple is implementing a successful business plan that will make it work.

They made a good move with the partnerships, but there was nothing wrong with Google Wallet. Google simply had to fight carriers and merchants and they lost. Apple has more clout.

This is basic Economics 101. It doesn't matter that Google Wallet was a good feature. And the fact that Google had to "fight the carriers" is nothing more than the way the system works. Apple has more clout and a better business model.

People seem to overlook how badly passbook bombed.

What is their to overlook? The Passbook failed with iPhone users.
 

Coachbulldog

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I do not know how reliable the Cult of Mac blog is, but here is a post discussing the points brought out in this thread:

Apple confirms iPhone 6 NFC chip is only for Apple Pay at launch

"All is not lost for developers hoping to see NFC API?s in the future, as the NXP-manufactured NFC chip Apple is using in the iPhone 6 and 6 Plus appears to be capable of providing open access to the NFC controller, according to experts PC Advisor spoke with at RapidNFC........Apple has already showed that its NFC chip has extended capabilities beyond Apple Pay. For example, the Apple Watch was demoed unlocking a hotel room with NFC at last week?s Apple event."
 

tgp

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And boy, is Google Wallet going to be dead now.

I agree with your post, except for this. Google Wallet is to Android what Apple Pay is to iOS. It's a method used by the OS to use a device's NFC for tap to pay. Vendors that adopt Apple Pay are actually implementing tap to pay, not necessarily Apple Pay specifically. Lots of credit cards now have it too, where you can tap the card to the terminal instead of swiping it.

So on the contrary, Apple Pay will make Google Wallet's tap to pay feature much more popular because vendors will now get tap to pay enabled terminals. I've been using it for a year and a half, but as of now there are few places to use it. Even though I only use an iPhone occasionally, I always said that I wish it had tap to pay, if for no other reason than to make it grow. In the US, the iPhone's market share is roughly equal to Android's, but the iPhone is still what drives mainstream adoption for a lot of features like this.

Thank God Apple Pay is here!
 

HankAZ

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I do not know how reliable the Cult of Mac blog is, but here is a post discussing the points brought out in this thread:

Apple confirms iPhone 6 NFC chip is only for Apple Pay at launch

"All is not lost for developers hoping to see NFC API’s in the future, as the NXP-manufactured NFC chip Apple is using in the iPhone 6 and 6 Plus appears to be capable of providing open access to the NFC controller, according to experts PC Advisor spoke with at RapidNFC........Apple has already showed that its NFC chip has extended capabilities beyond Apple Pay. For example, the Apple Watch was demoed unlocking a hotel room with NFC at last week’s Apple event."

There was some discussion that the hotel room thing was not NFC/ApplePay at all, but rather Bluetooth LE. Time will tell.
 

Illustrator Joe

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Moral of the story. Do not come to iMore with an obvious preference for another platform. You will get NOWHERE. NFC is cool I use it weekly on my phone now. Apple Pay is cool. But it is just a door slightly cracked waiting for someone to open it the rest of the way. Be patient. It took this long to get a device with a larger screen. Keep calm... they know what they are doing.
 

Coachbulldog

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Moral of the story. Do not come to iMore with an obvious preference for another platform. You will get NOWHERE. NFC is cool I use it weekly on my phone now. Apple Pay is cool. But it is just a door slightly cracked waiting for someone to open it the rest of the way. Be patient. It took this long to get a device with a larger screen. Keep calm... they know what they are doing.

I agree, someone that comes here with an obvious preference for another platform that makes statements like this isn't going to get anywhere:
* "but stop drinking the Kool-Aid long enough to realize that this is not for your benefit"
* "I posted it in an iPhone forum where the blinders are on in full"
* "I'm sorry if living in the Apple Ecosystem for so long makes some people incapable of objectivity because when you blindly defend a product's flaws, you come across as a cultist"
 

Zacharyw70

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I know Apple has everyone by the balls but I'm surprised carriers didn't throw a big fit about this. I mean they're all supporting that Isis mobile wallet so it seems like they'd be annoyed with Apple restricting people to their own payment method.
 

BreakingKayfabe

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I know Apple has everyone by the balls but I'm surprised carriers didn't throw a big fit about this. I mean they're all supporting that Isis mobile wallet so it seems like they'd be annoyed with Apple restricting people to their own payment method.

The carriers are Apple's b*tch.
 

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