1. mulasien's Avatar
    all non-Apple smartphones have some sorta bloat ware, some more than others.
    I fixed your quote to be more accurate. iPhones have zero bloat on them. Compare that to any non-Nexus Android phone, carrier/manufacturer bloat galore.
    03-07-2014 12:24 PM
  2. warcraftWidow's Avatar
    I fixed your quote to be more accurate. iPhones have zero bloat on them. Compare that to any non-Nexus Android phone, carrier/manufacturer bloat galore.
    I disagree. I think Apple has some bloat but less than other phones. You could easily consider Notes, Reminders, Compass, etc as "bloat" because you cannot delete them even if you use third-party replacements.
    Spencerdl likes this.
    03-07-2014 12:27 PM
  3. Spencerdl's Avatar
    I fixed your quote to be more accurate. iPhones have zero bloat on them. Compare that to any non-Nexus Android phone, carrier/manufacturer bloat galore.
    This is not exactaly true, but then again I guess it depends on what you consider to be "bloat ware"
    Edit; In the future I would appriciate if you wouldn't "fix" my quotes.
    Last edited by spencerdl; 03-07-2014 at 12:42 PM.
    03-07-2014 12:29 PM
  4. mulasien's Avatar
    Lag
    Wifi issues
    Camera (processing)
    Organization
    Touch wiz
    Not as smooth
    No iMessage or FaceTime
    Uses to much data
    Call quality


    Tapped out on my GOLD 5S
    To add to that, various SIM problems, GPS taking up far more battery than in an IPhone, problems with SDcards...

    Battery life poor on a Nexus 5.

    The G2 and Note 3s basically needing far greater battery capacity to compensate for the (poorer) battery management in Android.
    Speaking as one who went from iPhone, to being all in on Android (had both a Galaxy S2 and Asus TF300), while being an ardent evangelist of its features, to crawling back to iOS again, I can agree with all of these points (well, didn't use iMessage/Facetime on my iPhone 3G, but yes to the rest).

    When you look at a straight up feature list, Android tends to come out on top, which is what attracts a lot of people over. However more often than not, after using the phone and discovering that a lot of core issues aren't up to par (battery life/management, app selection/quality, responsiveness, stability, update schedule), turns out those extra features aren't worth having a degraded core phone experience.

    While I would love for iOS to have a couple extra features like app intents and the ability to load SwiftKey, those are firmly in the 'nice to have' features list and to not take precedence over 'core' requirements that Apple does better (battery management, guaranteed updates, overall more stable, app selection/quality), not to mention that far superior ecosystem between their products. That being said, I always say that I'm just as productive on my 'less featured' iOS device as I was on my more feature rich Android devices.
    03-07-2014 12:30 PM
  5. mulasien's Avatar
    This is not exactaly true, but then again I guess it depends on what you consider to be "bloat ware"
    What is your definition of 'bloatware' on iPhones? The stock apps?
    03-07-2014 12:31 PM
  6. warcraftWidow's Avatar
    What is your definition of 'bloatware' on iPhones? The stock apps?
    You could easily consider anything other than basic mail, calendar, contacts, browser, phone, texting, and camera as "bloat" regardless of platform. I make use of a lot of Apple's stock apps, but I keep some of them tucked into a folder that rarely gets opened.
    TheRewardisCheese likes this.
    03-07-2014 12:34 PM
  7. mulasien's Avatar
    I disagree. I think Apple has some bloat but less than other phones. You could easily consider Notes, Reminders, Compass, etc as "bloat" because you cannot delete them even if you use third-party replacements.
    If we're going to consider stock apps as bloatware, then what's considered 'non-bloat' apps? Phone, texting, and app store, and that's it? Heck, by that definition even 'bloat-free' Nexus devices are full of bloat.

    I don't consider stock apps that are considered default/expected on any smartphone these days to be bloat-ware. Especially ones that have been on there since the beginning. My definition of bloat ware is:

    - all the carrier-specific apps that are loaded
    - manufacturer-added apps that are loaded on top of the stock OS - granted, this applies specifically to Android since Apple is the only manufacturer of iOS.
    - apps that are generally useless. While not everyone uses the reminders or compass apps, they do still work as intended without any attempt to plug you for more money like most carrier apps do

    Even then, if we want to consider stock apps on iOS as bloat, I don't think anyone could argue that it is at a FAR lesser level than Android equivalents (Nexus devices notwithstanding)
    DarkBlade_95 likes this.
    03-07-2014 12:35 PM
  8. mulasien's Avatar
    iPad is at least $500 on top of at least $650 for an iPhone.

    Or you can pay $700 for a Galaxy Note III and only carry one device around which isn't too big or too tiny.

    I also don't see the point in using two devices that run the same operating system since neither will really allow you to do anything the other is incapable of (granted, there are OBVIOUS advantages to doing so as well).
    Different strokes, etc.

    I can easily make the case that one 5.5" device is both a compromised phone experience and a compromised tablet experience. It serves both roles, but doesn't do either that well.

    - compromised phone experience due to lack of portability and the inability to do anything one-handed comfortably. i.e. not as mobile
    - compromised tablet experience because even though 5.5" > 4", it's also much less than 8 or 10 inches.
    DarkBlade_95 likes this.
    03-07-2014 12:40 PM
  9. Spencerdl's Avatar
    Lag
    Wifi issues
    Camera (processing)
    Organization
    Touch wiz
    Not as smooth
    No iMessage or FaceTime
    Uses to much data
    Call quality


    Tapped out on my GOLD 5S
    I'm glad your enjoying you iPhone 5s once again. If I had to choose between my two smarthphones (5s and Note3), I would probably pick the 5s as well for several other reasons (accessories being #1, and my Wife being #2...ect.SMILE)
    After putting my 5s and Note3 side by side and testing (between phone calls), I would say both phones are GREAT, the only thing lacking on my Note3 is iMessage and FaceTime. The only thing lacking on my 5s is screen size. I have no other issues that you mention for MY Note3.
    WildCatStud333 likes this.
    03-07-2014 01:06 PM
  10. i7guy's Avatar
    Sound like normal business pratice in the smartphone world to me. If I'm not mistaken, all smartphones have some sorta bloat ware, some more than others.
    What do you consider bloat ware on IOS 7?


    Sent from my iPhone using iMore Forums mobile app
    03-07-2014 01:42 PM
  11. Spencerdl's Avatar
    All that stuff I have in a folder called "stuff". I guess what some might consider "bloat ware" some might not. Its no biggie.
    03-07-2014 01:43 PM
  12. Illustrator Joe's Avatar
    All that stuff I have in a folder called "stuff". I guess what some might consider "bloat ware" some might not. Its no biggie.
    It is the same with Samsung. Some people call it "bloat" some people call the same thing "features".
    03-07-2014 01:50 PM
  13. Spencerdl's Avatar
    Listen Guys/Gals, I luv my 5s and it's not going anywhere. I just think to down talk a particular smartphone platform because you like the one you choose is a little imature. People like different or the same platform for many different reasons. Everyone uses smartphones for many different reasons and results (thats why their are so many different smartphones on the market) Mobile Nations, remember....thats it...PERIOD
    Haalcyon likes this.
    03-07-2014 01:52 PM
  14. finn5975's Avatar
    Regardless of what folks want to use as the official label, each phone/platform has some degree of pre-loaded software that some will consider as unnecessary. To me, the problem comes into play when those things are made difficult to be removed from your device. I don't like that I am forced to either jailbreak or root in order to get rid of them....particularly if they are resource hogs. But at the same time, I know it is a part of the game so I accept it.

    The one thing that bothered me more than anything, was the 2 years I couldn't even put Newsstand in a folder. I will never understand that one.
    03-07-2014 01:57 PM
  15. mulasien's Avatar
    Listen Guys/Gals, I luv my 5s and it's not going anywhere. I just think to down talk a particular smartphone platform because you like the one you choose is a little imature. People like different or the same platform for many different reasons. Everyone uses smartphones for many different reasons and results (thats why their are so many different smartphones on the market) Mobile Nations, remember....thats it...PERIOD
    I'm not sure what you're upset about. It is entirely possible to have a discussion about why you prefer one smartphone platform over another and still be mature about it in the process. I don't think anyone is acting out of line in this thread, but rather being quite civil in the process.

    This forum would be quite dead if we didn't discuss things we were not in complete agreement about.
    03-07-2014 02:06 PM
  16. Spencerdl's Avatar
    I'm not sure what you're upset about. It is entirely possible to have a discussion about why you prefer one smartphone platform over another and still be mature about it in the process. I don't think anyone is acting out of line in this thread, but rather being quite civil in the process.

    This forum would be quite dead if we didn't discuss things we were not in complete agreement about.
    Not really upset. And I totally agree with you. It's just reading the things that are not true or at least havn't been what I have experienced with other platforms that gets on my nerves.
    03-07-2014 02:09 PM
  17. mulasien's Avatar
    You could easily consider anything other than basic mail, calendar, contacts, browser, phone, texting, and camera as "bloat" regardless of platform. I make use of a lot of Apple's stock apps, but I keep some of them tucked into a folder that rarely gets opened.
    I think that would be a good segue into a discussion of what one consider to be core apps, and what are bloat apps (besides the obvious ones of carrier-added junk). I live and die by my reminders and notes apps, first thing I did when I made my brief foray into Android was to find a suitable note taking app that was as good as the one I had on iPhone. Didn't have reminders on my pre-Android days iPhone, but now rely on it wholly for both timed reminders as well as acting as a shared grocery list between my wife and myself (I know you can get other apps for this, but it works perfectly in the stock reminders app for me).

    I've never needed the compass app, but I can see its usefulness if you need it in a pinch.

    I also don't think one can make a complete apples to apples comparison between the two platforms when it comes to bloat due to the completely different infrastructure. Apple controls the entire iOS experience, so whatever apps are on it are considered core apps with nothing else added by external sources. Android is of course a different beast. I believe that anything that is not on stock Android (i.e. Nexus devices) is usually considered to be bloat. The two different kinds of Android bloat are: 1. manufacturer-added apps (i.e., Samsung's different S-apps) and 2. ones added by different carriers.

    I find the first to be less egregious for the most part as some people find some of the manufacturer ones to be useful. I know that some of the apps added for the Note serve to take better advantage of its capabilities (i.e. S-pen stuff) than stock Android. However some of the Samsung apps are duplicate layers on top of what stock Android already has in it, like their own media store, music store, etc. Those I would consider to be bloat. I haven't had much experience with other phone manufacturers so I can't reliably comment on them, but I know that people like some of the other manufacturer additions like blink feed on the newer HTC phones.

    The carrier ones for the most part are useless. Most of them want to milk you for money for services that already come with stock Android, like AT&T navigation apps. That's the worst kind of bloat imaginable and I have yet to find one person who actually says they like and get good use out of carrier added apps.
    03-07-2014 02:28 PM
  18. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    The Samsung hate made a lot of the bad arguments up thread make more sense to me (not the arguments themselves, but the motivation for making them)

    Apple's 1st party apps take up almost 2GB on iDevices. Not even the carriers + Samsung require that much space (do the math). iLife and iWork are absolutely massive installs. Space is not an issue on this device. It is actually somewhat better than the iPhone.

    The only stock apps I considered bloat on the iPhone were junk like compass and weather.

    The only issue I had were the massive amount of space their other apps required. Over 600 MB for GarageBand, for example. The iWork app install sizes are ridiculous. A 16GB iPhone would be hard to manage for me due to that, given the lack of external storage.

    Samsung Hub is not preloaded on the S5 and the Note 3 only preload the Video Store and App Store (for good reason). The rest is needed in markets where Google Play isn't available and to make sure media purchases from Samsung non android platforms can be recovered and used on the Android devices.

    Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by n8ter#AC; 03-07-2014 at 02:57 PM.
    03-07-2014 02:41 PM
  19. warcraftWidow's Avatar
    That ^^^^^^ is a decent synopsis of bloat. I don't really consider most of the stock apps on my iPhone as bloat. However I can see where a valid argument can be made that they are.
    And I would agree that carrier added stuff is always bloat, and manufacturer added stuff can be.

    Edit: I was referring to mulasien's post not the one directly above mine.
    03-07-2014 02:43 PM
  20. mulasien's Avatar
    The Samsung hate made a lot of the bad arguments up thread make more sense to me (not the arguments themselves, but the motivation for making them)

    Apple's 1st party apps take up almost 2GB on iDevices. Not even the carriers + Samsung require that much space (do the math). iLife and iWork are absolutely massive installs. Space is not an issue on this device. It is actually somewhat better than the iPhone.

    The only stock apps I considered bloat on the iPhone were junk like compass and weather.

    The only issue I had were the massive amount of space their other apps required. Over 600 MB for GarageBand, for example. The iWork app install sizes are ridiculous. A 16GB iPhone would be hard to manage for me due to that, given the lack of external storage.
    I'm not sure if you're making the statement that the iWork/iLife apps are bloat, which I would say they're not because 1. they're optional, 2. they don't come pre-loaded out of the box and 3. can be removed. If that's not what you were stating, then my apologies. Yeah, they're big apps, but you can choose whether you have them or not.

    I was going to link to the articles that talk about the S5 taking up over 8GB of storage space, but then I found more recent articles stating that the demo units at MWC had extra demo software taking up space that won't be on production models. I wonder what the final units will weigh in at once they're out in the wild?

    Samsung Hub is not preloaded on the S5 and the Note 3 only preload the Video Store and App Store (for good reason). The rest is needed in markets where Google Play isn't available and to make sure media purchases from Samsung non android platforms can be recovered and used on the Android devices.

    Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 using Tapatalk
    I was not aware that Samsung Hub was not loaded on the S5, so thanks for the clarification on that. The Samsung store being needed in non-Google Play markets as an alternate source does make sense now that you mention it. However, I would still consider it to be an unnecessary space hog on phones in countries where Google Play is available. People should be able to remove a redundant alternate market app if they don't need it.
    03-07-2014 03:09 PM
  21. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    I'm not sure if you're making the statement that the iWork/iLife apps are bloat, which I would say they're not because 1. they're optional, 2. they don't come pre-loaded out of the box and 3. can be removed. If that's not what you were stating, then my apologies. Yeah, they're big apps, but you can choose whether you have them or not.

    I was going to link to the articles that talk about the S5 taking up over 8GB of storage space, but then I found more recent articles stating that the demo units at MWC had extra demo software taking up space that won't be on production models. I wonder what the final units will weigh in at once they're out in the wild?
    10.7 GB out of the box, which is almost in line with a lot of other devices on the 16 GB model. A 16 GA device only has about 14.8 GB available out of the box after formatting.

    iWork is optional but so is Polaris Office, Video Editor, ChatOn, and many others on my device. The device does not prompt me to install the the way an iPhone does, either.

    I was not aware that Samsung Hub was not loaded on the S5, so thanks for the clarification on that. The Samsung store being needed in non-Google Play markets as an alternate source does make sense now that you mention it. However, I would still consider it to be an unnecessary space hog on phones in countries where Google Play is available. People should be able to remove a redundant alternate market app if they don't need it.
    Samsung puts some of its own app and data updates on its own store. It makes sense.

    The S4 was the last device to come with all that preloaded and the S3 didn't have nearly as much preload. The S4 is actually a bit of an outlier as the carriers/Samsung removed that stuff from every Galaxy S flagship prior to the 4.

    The S didn't come with anything but Social Hub functions in the US variants. Same for the S2.

    The S3 came with a store updater for Samsung apps and a Hub Stub but you didn't have to install any of it.

    The 4 was the first one to come with Samsung media stores actually preloaded on the device. At least on AT&T or Verizon.

    Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 using Tapatalk
    Illustrator Joe likes this.
    03-07-2014 03:22 PM
  22. reeneebob's Avatar
    This is not exactaly true, but then again I guess it depends on what you consider to be "bloat ware"
    Edit; In the future I would appriciate if you wouldn't "fix" my quotes.
    This.

    I am using a gs4 as my manager phone for a while, and before I did anything I went in and disabled all the bundled samsung crap.

    42 apps. 42! That's what I disabled that ran in the background, duplicated google functions already running in the background, useless touch wiz 'features'.

    It's ridiculous.
    03-08-2014 12:34 AM
  23. Speedygi's Avatar
    I don't see how useful things, essential things even, like the calculator, calendar etc, can be called bloatware...

    That gives new meaning to the useless carrier (and Samsung apps now that I think about it) apps some carriers (and Samsung) add on there.

    Even an obese man has less bloat...


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    03-08-2014 10:21 AM
  24. Haalcyon's Avatar
    I thought bloatware was non-PIM software placed by the OEM and carriers that was unique to that brand or carrier?


    {iRiidium} Sent from my liberated iridium rMini LTE
    03-08-2014 10:24 AM
  25. i7guy's Avatar
    I think that would be a good segue into a discussion of what one consider to be core apps, and what are bloat apps (besides the obvious ones of carrier-added junk). I live and die by my reminders and notes apps, first thing I did when I made my brief foray into Android was to find a suitable note taking app that was as good as the one I had on iPhone. Didn't have reminders on my pre-Android days iPhone, but now rely on it wholly for both timed reminders as well as acting as a shared grocery list between my wife and myself (I know you can get other apps for this, but it works perfectly in the stock reminders app for me).

    I've never needed the compass app, but I can see its usefulness if you need it in a pinch.

    I also don't think one can make a complete apples to apples comparison between the two platforms when it comes to bloat due to the completely different infrastructure. Apple controls the entire iOS experience, so whatever apps are on it are considered core apps with nothing else added by external sources. Android is of course a different beast. I believe that anything that is not on stock Android (i.e. Nexus devices) is usually considered to be bloat. The two different kinds of Android bloat are: 1. manufacturer-added apps (i.e., Samsung's different S-apps) and 2. ones added by different carriers.

    I find the first to be less egregious for the most part as some people find some of the manufacturer ones to be useful. I know that some of the apps added for the Note serve to take better advantage of its capabilities (i.e. S-pen stuff) than stock Android. However some of the Samsung apps are duplicate layers on top of what stock Android already has in it, like their own media store, music store, etc. Those I would consider to be bloat. I haven't had much experience with other phone manufacturers so I can't reliably comment on them, but I know that people like some of the other manufacturer additions like blink feed on the newer HTC phones.

    The carrier ones for the most part are useless. Most of them want to milk you for money for services that already come with stock Android, like AT&T navigation apps. That's the worst kind of bloat imaginable and I have yet to find one person who actually says they like and get good use out of carrier added apps.
    One persons' bloatware is another persons' essential app. Bloatware on a phone has a different connotation than bloatware on a computer and I agree the addition of carrier added apps is annoying. You can go down the list of applications installed on the iphone and I would believe each person would have a different viewpoint as to whether it was useful or not. For the most part I've used all of the iphone core apps. I think compass and level is gimmicky but cool never the less and wouldn't consider that "bloatware". Whether apple should allow one to remove, optional apps, is another discussion.
    03-08-2014 11:44 AM
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