1. Oofa's Avatar
    I know it may sound like a naive question and I suppose it is but I am not a tech guy and security is important to me. I have not seen this asked or answered.......
    After setting up and using the fingerprint scanner on a 5s, where does my fingerprint end up after it has been logged as mine? In other words, am I right to assume that now my fingerprint is accessible to any halfway decent hacker? It seems that the more "security" is involved with technology, the more of "me" gets filed somewhere and I feel more vulnerable than if I don't use passwords, codes and fingerprint scanners. Am I being paranoid or realistic?
    09-12-2013 11:16 AM
  2. kch50428's Avatar
    The fingerprint reader stores a numeric representation the sensor creates within the phone itself, is encrypted - and is never stored outside the phone or backed up anywhere.

    Video - New iPhone Won't Store Fingerprints - WSJ.com

    http://www.apple.com/iphone-5s/videos/#video-touch

    Apple is saying that even if someone were to get your phone, the fingerprint data is not an image that can be extracted - but it is an encrypted data file of a numeric representation of your fingerprint - so someone would have to hack your phone... hack the system chip, find the encrypted file and have to break the encryption to see this numeric representation of your fingerprint... and part of the sensor is to detect a live finger - so a Mythbusters-esque attempt at circumventing a fingerprint reader with a print on a fake finger won't be possible.
    Last edited by kch50428; 09-12-2013 at 11:48 AM.
    09-12-2013 11:22 AM
  3. John Yester's Avatar
    Apple says a user's fingerprint will be stored in a "Secure Enclave" on the smartphone's processing chip. It will never get stored on Apple servers or iCloud
    Jaguarr40 likes this.
    09-12-2013 11:23 AM
  4. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    DHS Terrorist/No Fly list.
    kch50428, Fausty82 and saichick04 like this.
    09-12-2013 11:52 AM
  5. Nodnerb's Avatar
    The fingerprint reader stores a numeric representation the sensor creates within the phone itself, is encrypted - and is never stored outside the phone or backed up anywhere.

    Video - New iPhone Won't Store Fingerprints - WSJ.com

    Apple - iPhone 5s - Videos

    Apple is saying that even if someone were to get your phone, the fingerprint data is not an image that can be extracted - but it is an encrypted data file of a numeric representation of your fingerprint - so someone would have to hack your phone... hack the system chip, find the encrypted file and have to break the encryption to see this numeric representation of your fingerprint... and part of the sensor is to detect a live finger - so a Mythbusters-esque attempt at circumventing a fingerprint reader with a print on a fake finger won't be possible.
    Which seems a whole lot more difficult than someone dusting your phone for prints. It's not like our fingerprints are hard to find if someone were to want to frame us or something. They're everywhere.
    09-12-2013 12:33 PM
  6. Peligro911's Avatar
    I would be highly disappointed if register my print and then take a black paper over the button and it uses my last print


    Sent from my iPhone 5 from a galaxy far far away (in the USA ) using Tapatalk !
    09-12-2013 12:40 PM
  7. warcraftWidow's Avatar
    The biggest potential issue with the fingerprint scanner is if you were stopped by police and they wanted to search your phone. This may vary by jurisdiction (or district court rulings), but overall courts have ruled that you cannot be compelled to give up a password as this would be potentially incriminating yourself.

    However, touching the phone with a finger may not be considered the same (even though the end result of unlocking the phone is the same) because it is using something you have (your finger) not something you know (your passcode).

    I'm not an attorney though so maybe someone with a law background can add some details to this.
    09-12-2013 12:47 PM
  8. Oofa's Avatar
    My paranoia stems from having my identity stolen in the past. I just question how far this whole "security" thing will go. Where are we heading......DNA security systems to unlock iPhone 10? I don't want my fingerprints in my phone system. I think not having sensitive information on your phone is more secure than using fingerprints to unlock it but I admit that I find it easy to not keep life in my phone (I could get along just fine with a basic calls-only phone albeit not comfortably) and I'm more paranoid about it than the average user.
    09-12-2013 01:48 PM
  9. John Yester's Avatar
    You don't have to use it... You can surely just use pass code.


    ​Or like you mentioned, keep the device clean...
    09-12-2013 01:53 PM
  10. kch50428's Avatar
    You don't have to use it... You can surely just use pass code.


    ​Or like you mentioned, keep the device clean...
    From what I've seen thus far... if you enable the fingerprint thing, you are also required to have a pass code - and - if you don't unlock the phone for 48 hours - it will require the pass code...
    09-12-2013 01:55 PM
  11. Fausty82's Avatar
    From what I've seen thus far... if you enable the fingerprint thing, you are also required to have a pass code - and - if you don't unlock the phone for 48 hours - it will require the pass code...
    It will also require the pass code when the device is turned on. So if it’s off, you need to use the pass code to access it the first time.
    09-12-2013 02:04 PM
  12. John Yester's Avatar
    Right but you can disable finger printing. as he mentioned he would not want them in the phone.
    09-12-2013 02:05 PM
  13. htabbach's Avatar
    A moderator at AndroidCentral was telling everyone that the finger print scanner is less secure than a pass code, he was very convinced of that and he said that the print will be stored as a 10 digit number of 1 or 0, which according to him is less secure than a 4 digit code to the power of 10.
    09-12-2013 03:00 PM
  14. kch50428's Avatar
    A moderator at AndroidCentral was telling everyone that the finger print scanner is less secure than a pass code, he was very convinced of that and he said that the print will be stored as a 10 digit number of 1 or 0, which according to him is less secure than a 4 digit code to the power of 10.
    Have the AC Mod explain how the supposed 10 digit number can be extracted from a phone... oh, it's encrypted. Have them explain how they'll decrypt it once extracted from the phone...
    09-12-2013 03:12 PM
  15. xlipstickandbruisesx's Avatar
    My paranoia stems from having my identity stolen in the past. I just question how far this whole "security" thing will go. Where are we heading......DNA security systems to unlock iPhone 10? I don't want my fingerprints in my phone system. I think not having sensitive information on your phone is more secure than using fingerprints to unlock it but I admit that I find it easy to not keep life in my phone (I could get along just fine with a basic calls-only phone albeit not comfortably) and I'm more paranoid about it than the average user.
    It's very simple then.... don't buy it or don't use the feature!
    09-12-2013 04:29 PM
  16. BB fan forever's Avatar
    A regular person won't be able to get into the phone unless they are super smart. Now the NSA on the other hand, lol. They will get anything they can.
    09-12-2013 05:59 PM
  17. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    My paranoia stems from having my identity stolen in the past. I just question how far this whole "security" thing will go. Where are we heading......DNA security systems to unlock iPhone 10? I don't want my fingerprints in my phone system. I think not having sensitive information on your phone is more secure than using fingerprints to unlock it but I admit that I find it easy to not keep life in my phone (I could get along just fine with a basic calls-only phone albeit not comfortably) and I'm more paranoid about it than the average user.
    Don't buy it then.

    Your fingerprint isn't going to be stolen from the iPhone 5S from anyone who couldn't get it just as easy without the phone, but convincing someone who is paranoid about it is impossible. Your identity could be stolen from the finger print you left on your car door if someone really wanted to get it...your information floats around so many channels that you don't even know about that an iPhone unlock feature should be the last thing you should concern yourself with if you're scared someone is going to steal your identity again...to be honest, the iPhone 5S is offering you a multitude of layers of security, I would think someone paranoid about this kind of thing would be more inclined to buy it and use it vs. other offerings on the market that only offer basic passcode type security features.

    Then again, logic and paranoia are typically not good bed fellows...so just do whatever helps you be a little less obsessed with what "COULD" happen today...you COULD get hit by an asteroid when you walk out of the house tomorrow, so why not live a little?
    kch50428 likes this.
    09-12-2013 06:23 PM

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