1. Paradocks's Avatar
    Apple is not dominating in other markets:

    http://news.CNET.com/8301-1035_3-575...ndroid-surges/

    A less expensive plastic iPhone may help reverse this trend.

    Sent from somewhere
    07-11-2013 10:57 AM
  2. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    I didn't say this was a new strategy; it's part of Apple's evolving strategy to address emerging markets. It is true that Apple is currently addressing this by pushing older models such as the 4 and 4S. But to say that Apple is dominating every new market is not quite true (take China for example).

    Apple selling iPhone 4 in China to gain market share | TechHive

    Whether Apple continues selling older models rather than a less expensive, plastic model depends on several factors. I think we're all intelligent enough figure out what those factors are.
    I guess technically you didn't ever say "new strategy", but you did say that Apple needed A strategy, which reads to me that they are missing this component and are needing it to "compete with Android" as you put it. And then you recommended a strategy, further defining my interpretation of your "strategy" comment. I was just going by what you wrote...if you didn't mean that, no harm no foul.
    07-11-2013 10:59 AM
  3. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    Strongly disagree, what you say is clearly what's going in the US and Apple certainly does not need a budget iphone here.
    In emerging countries though it's a total different story, yes Android reaches this countries with a plethora of cheap phones and this is the reason Apple wants to get some of this market with a cheaper iphone.
    Now the 4S theory, in most emerging countries the new iphone, let's say the 5S wont launch until next year and when it launches it will be out of reach for the majority of the people and it doesn't neccesarily mean the market will be flooded with cheap iphone 4s's, the 4s and even the 4 remain very expensive phones and out of reach for many people, the networks dont offer the same subsidies we get here and they are 1000 times more evil and greedy than all the networks in the US.

    In south america for example, pre paid plans are way more popular than regular post paid plans and this is in part because of the almost zero subsidies and long contracts, this is why android has a pretty good product penetration in these countries, they make so many phones that they can easily sell older devices at very good prices to everyone , Apple as it is now can't compete with that.
    A cheaper iphone at launch is what these markets need.
    But then you diminish the brand...I hate to always relate automotive news to this stuff (but that's what I'm into so thats what i know), but this sounds awfully familiar to what happened with Ferrari as other luxury exotic brands started to profoundly expand their product line to meet more consumers in different markets (including lower end markets)...Ferrari stood their ground, but even without even a hint of movement towards that business strategy, money started moving away...diminishing of a brand without even considering the type of plan that WOULD diminish it.

    Apple is a luxury brand. And they dominate markets while remaining such (with a very limited product offering). I mean they could slap OSX into a bunch of HP's, Acer's and Dells and probably increase footing by leaps and bounds in the computer market...but why do that to the brand? When you start slapping Apple's brand logo on junk, you remove some of that draw that the company has, and one of the biggest reasons why i think they have found so much success in the last decade.

    I mean sure, I understand that Apple is a business, and by logic, wants to make as much money as possible with their products...why do so many think that success can only be found with full spectrum market dominance? Luxury brand companies all across the world would laugh at the idea...you think Rolex cares what a Fossil watch consumer wants as far as value for price in their line up? Ferrari investing in the ideas and concerns of a Honda Civic buyer? Let's be real here...Apple sells top end smart phones, and when compared to other individual smart phones of like caliber, either holds its own (with older technology) or dominates.
    07-11-2013 11:32 AM
  4. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    Apple is not dominating in other markets:

    http://news.CNET.com/8301-1035_3-575...ndroid-surges/

    A less expensive plastic iPhone may help reverse this trend.

    Sent from somewhere
    The article states -- Market trends in Western Europe are not looking good for [Apple's iPhone]. "Apple's iOS continues to lose ground..." -- Initially, the reference is about the "iPhone", but the decline in market share is in regard to "iOS". iOS is on both the iPhone, the iPad & the iPod Touch.

    The article is also specific in regard to iOS, but not specific regarding Android. iOS market share, according to the article, declined to 20% from 25% in the first quarter of 2012 whereas Android is gaining "operating system market share", up 14% year to year in the first quarter. First of all, what was is up from, specifically in 2012? Furthermore, what is iOS market share year to year in the first quarter?
    07-11-2013 11:34 AM
  5. Paradocks's Avatar
    The article states -- Market trends in Western Europe are not looking good for [Apple's iPhone]. "Apple's iOS continues to lose ground..." -- Initially, the reference is about the "iPhone", but the decline in market share is in regard to "iOS". iOS is on both the iPhone, the iPad & the iPod Touch.

    The article is also specific in regard to iOS, but not specific regarding Android. iOS market share, according to the article, declined to 20% from 25% in the first quarter of 2012 whereas Android is gaining "operating system market share", up 14% year to year in the first quarter. First of all, what was is up from, specifically in 2012? Furthermore, what is iOS market share year to year in the first quarter?
    The article contains a chart that may answer many of your questions. It compares smartphone shipments and market share between first quarter 2012 and first quarter 2013 by vendor.

    Sent from somewhere
    07-11-2013 11:42 AM
  6. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    The article states -- Market trends in Western Europe are not looking good for [Apple's iPhone]. "Apple's iOS continues to lose ground..." -- Initially, the reference is about the "iPhone", but the decline in market share is in regard to "iOS". iOS is on both the iPhone, the iPad & the iPod Touch.

    The article is also specific in regard to iOS, but not specific regarding Android. iOS market share, according to the article, declined to 20% from 25% in the first quarter of 2012 whereas Android is gaining "operating system market share", up 14% year to year in the first quarter. First of all, what was is up from, specifically in 2012? Furthermore, what is iOS market share year to year in the first quarter?
    It's also comparing junk #'s to Apple's...I bet if you looked up the #'s of cars made by Chinese auto manufacturers, it'd have a similar effect on the numbers sold by BMW, Mercedes and the like. You'd get the reality check, though, when you asked either of those brands if the #'s coming out of China had them shaking in their boots or worrying about market share. They'd probably laugh at you while they enjoyed segment dominance, which is what they are aimed for vs. full market dominance.
    Just_Me_D likes this.
    07-11-2013 11:44 AM
  7. Paradocks's Avatar
    Also from the same article:

    ''IDC also released a report last week on smartphone market share in the India, where Apple struggles to remain relevant.

    Apple got knocked out of the top five smartphone vendors in India in unit shipments, according to a report, citing first-quarter numbers from IDC.

    Android dominated the Indian smartphone market with a 90 percent share, driven by sales in the low end segment, according to the report."


    Sent from somewhere
    07-11-2013 11:49 AM
  8. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    The article contains a chart that may answer many of your questions. It compares smartphone shipments and market share between first quarter 2012 and first quarter 2013 by vendor.

    Sent from somewhere
    If you look at Samsungs website that lists all of their cellular devices (all of which run some form of Android OS), you'll see a staggering 158 different phones (to be fair, take off about 30-40 of them that might just be different colors or insignificant variants of the same phone) and you have over a hundred different phones with the Android OS...and that's in the U.S. market alone.

    Imagine that number internationally...lol. Compared to even the entire line of iOS devices since the release of the iPod, it is a bit silly to try and make a point about sales figures and market share...if Android and Samsung WEREN'T dominating that kind of share with that many devices, they'd be out of business.
    Just_Me_D likes this.
    07-11-2013 11:52 AM
  9. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    The article contains a chart that may answer many of your questions. It compares smartphone shipments and market share between first quarter 2012 and first quarter 2013 by vendor.

    Sent from somewhere
    I saw the chart. I just find it amazing how Apple is being portrayed as suffering/hurting when they've historically put out one iPhone per year. For example, if Apple doesn't sell a gazillion iPhone 5 devices month after month until the iPhone 5s is released then something is wrong. There is complete disregard to sale numbers, market share data and hysteria associated with the launch of a new iPhone year after year. There is total disregard that a great deal of iPhone owners hold onto to their devices and upgrade every 2 years unless they are willing to pay the non-subsidized price. The next iPhone is suppose to be released this coming fall. If that holds true, show me the sales figures & market share for Q4 2013.
    revtech likes this.
    07-11-2013 11:55 AM
  10. Guacho's Avatar
    But then you diminish the brand...I hate to always relate automotive news to this stuff (but that's what I'm into so thats what i know), but this sounds awfully familiar to what happened with Ferrari as other luxury exotic brands started to profoundly expand their product line to meet more consumers in different markets (including lower end markets)...Ferrari stood their ground, but even without even a hint of movement towards that business strategy, money started moving away...diminishing of a brand without even considering the type of plan that WOULD diminish it.

    Apple is a luxury brand. And they dominate markets while remaining such (with a very limited product offering). I mean they could slap OSX into a bunch of HP's, Acer's and Dells and probably increase footing by leaps and bounds in the computer market...but why do that to the brand? When you start slapping Apple's brand logo on junk, you remove some of that draw that the company has, and one of the biggest reasons why i think they have found so much success in the last decade.

    I mean sure, I understand that Apple is a business, and by logic, wants to make as much money as possible with their products...why do so many think that success can only be found with full spectrum market dominance? Luxury brand companies all across the world would laugh at the idea...you think Rolex cares what a Fossil watch consumer wants as far as value for price in their line up? Ferrari investing in the ideas and concerns of a Honda Civic buyer? Let's be real here...Apple sells top end smart phones, and when compared to other individual smart phones of like caliber, either holds its own (with older technology) or dominates.
    So did Apple diminish the brand when it made the iphones 3 & 3s just because they were made of plastic??? I dont think it will diminish the brand, if Apple makes a plastic iphone I'm sure it's going to be a very well made and tight device.
    Only people with a very good income can buy ferraries, now an iphone... if you earn 18.000 or 500.000 dollars a year you can easily afford one ( at least in the US), sure, Apple makes high end devices but I'm sure they want to expand as much as possible and they can do that without diminish the brand.

    I mean, comparing Ferrari - Honda , Rolex - Fossil , Apple - Android is not right. Totally different things.
    07-11-2013 12:03 PM
  11. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    The media wants to make things look like gloom and doom...and some people are sold by it. Others are able to read the details as they are and understand sensationalism.
    07-11-2013 12:04 PM
  12. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    So did Apple diminish the brand when it made the iphones 3 & 3s just because they were made of plastic??? I dont think it will diminish the brand, if Apple makes a plastic iphone I'm sure it's going to be a very well made and tight device.
    Only people with a very good income can buy ferraries, now an iphone... if you earn 18.000 or 500.000 dollars a year you can easily afford one ( at least in the US), sure, Apple makes high end devices but I'm sure they want to expand as much as possible and they can do that without diminish the brand.
    Those weren't cheaper models though...and truthfully, I don't feel it really has to do with the fit and finish of a lower end iPhone (as I don't think Apple would release something sub standard, even at that lower pricing point)...it has to do with the approach and the wording itself. A lower end iPhone...another device on the low end of the spectrum...a phone to appease the low end of the market.

    Sure, Apple can make a fine and perfectly functional lower end iPhone...and it'll probably have the build quality we expect from them. The fact that it is, in fact, a lower end phone though is what diminishes the brand.
    07-11-2013 12:07 PM
  13. Guacho's Avatar
    I really doubt that will happen, but we'll see , it's gonna be interesting.
    07-11-2013 12:13 PM
  14. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    (snipped)
    Sure, Apple can make a fine and perfectly functional lower end iPhone...and it'll probably have the build quality we expect from them. The fact that it is, in fact, a lower end phone though is what diminishes the brand.
    @Sean @Guacho @Paradox This is exactly the fear I have about Apple selling a lower-end iPhone, at least here in the U.S.. Currently, the older iPhones become the budget models once the latest model is released and this method has been successful year after year. Again, I'm speaking in regard to here in the U.S.. Still, I'm curious to see if the rumors become true and I suppose we'll know soon enough.
    07-11-2013 12:16 PM
  15. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    I really doubt that will happen, but we'll see , it's gonna be interesting.
    True. Only time will tell...it could be the thing that really pushes Apple into the longevity that brings us better devices across the board for all i know. I just see it the other way is all.
    07-11-2013 12:23 PM
  16. Paradocks's Avatar
    @Sean @Guacho @Paradox This is exactly the fear I have about Apple selling a lower-end iPhone, at least here in the U.S.. Currently, the older iPhones become the budget models once the latest model is released and this method has been successful year after year. Again, I'm speaking in regard to here in the U.S.. Still, I'm curious to see if the rumors become true and I suppose we'll know soon enough.
    I don't think Apple should sell a low budget iPhone in the U.S. But when Apple's smartphone is struggling to maintain relevance in the world's second most populous country (India), then I believe that the time is right to try and increase their footprint with an inexpensive (not cheap!) iPhone.

    Sent from somewhere
    07-11-2013 12:27 PM
  17. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    I don't think Apple should sell a low budget iPhone in the U.S. But when Apple's smartphone is struggling to maintain relevance in the world's second most populous country (India), then I believe that the time is right to try and increase their footprint with an inexpensive (not cheap!) iPhone.

    Sent from somewhere
    I understand, but this brings my the question I asked a few posts up. How would you feel about Apple selling a budget model iPhone, but only outside the U.S.? Anyway, it's time for me to go hit the treadmill. Thanks for the feedback guys and thanks to the OP for creating the thread.
    07-11-2013 12:31 PM
  18. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    I don't think Apple should sell a low budget iPhone in the U.S. But when Apple's smartphone is struggling to maintain relevance in the world's second most populous country (India), then I believe that the time is right to try and increase their footprint with an inexpensive (not cheap!) iPhone.

    Sent from somewhere
    They are only struggling in relation to sales comparisons between the handful of iOS devices available (which is probably even more limited than what we have here in the US) and the hundreds of Android devices from across the spectrum. When you narrow it down to the more relevant range of smart phones that actually compete with the iPhone, the story becomes vastly different...even in those markets where the more luxury branded smart phones don't find quite as firm footing as cheap junk phones.

    It'd be like going into the lower income areas of the united states, where consumers primarily use pre-paid plans on pre-packaged $25 phones and saying that because the iPhone isn't selling well in that market, that Apple needs to reassess their strategy.
    07-11-2013 12:40 PM
  19. Guacho's Avatar
    I don't think Apple should sell a low budget iPhone in the U.S. But when Apple's smartphone is struggling to maintain relevance in the world's second most populous country (India), then I believe that the time is right to try and increase their footprint with an inexpensive (not cheap!) iPhone.

    Sent from somewhere
    Yeah, we hear the word " cheap" and immediately think poor made, but is Apple what we're talking about here.
    You talk about India, a huge market too, I talk about South America since it's what I know very well, there are just too many people out there and I think Apple is taking notice.
    07-11-2013 12:41 PM
  20. Paradocks's Avatar
    I understand, but this brings my the question I asked a few posts up. How would you feel about Apple selling a budget model iPhone, but only outside the U.S.? Anyway, it's time for me to go hit the treadmill. Thanks for the feedback guys and thanks to the OP for creating the thread.
    I wouldn't mind it at all. Android vendors sell models all the time that are not available in the U.S. But Android thrives (or suffers, depending on your point of view) from fragmentation, or put another way, choices. Is Apple willing to diversify its product offerings in order to gain more customers? Maybe they are content with the status quo. Tim Cook and company may provide an answer in the next few months.

    Sent from somewhere
    07-11-2013 12:49 PM
  21. Paradocks's Avatar
    They are only struggling in relation to sales comparisons between the handful of iOS devices available (which is probably even more limited than what we have here in the US) and the hundreds of Android devices from across the spectrum. When you narrow it down to the more relevant range of smart phones that actually compete with the iPhone, the story becomes vastly different...even in those markets where the more luxury branded smart phones don't find quite as firm footing as cheap junk phones.

    It'd be like going into the lower income areas of the united states, where consumers primarily use pre-paid plans on pre-packaged $25 phones and saying that because the iPhone isn't selling well in that market, that Apple needs to reassess their strategy.
    Yeah, but the lower income areas of the United States don't have 1.2 billion people in which to introduce the iOS ecosystem through a budget iPhone. Forget about the iPhone itself. Think about iOS as a whole and increasing that market share. I think Apple would love to hook as many people as they can into their ecosystem. A budget iPhone could go a long way to do that in developing countries.

    Sent from somewhere
    07-11-2013 01:20 PM
  22. John Yester's Avatar
    Agree....

    If Apple finds a way to bring people in, think back as the iPod days, and now iPhone...

    I think it's a great idea.
    Guacho and Paradocks like this.
    07-11-2013 01:27 PM
  23. Paradocks's Avatar
    Another thing...where on Apple's website does it identify itself as a luxury brand? Why shouldn't it offer products across a wide spectrum of prices? Is Apple considered luxury because its products are more expensive? How did Apple become associated with the rich and snobby? Seriously, why is Apple held up to a higher level and expected to never offer budget alternatives? I just don't get this kind of attitude.

    Sent from somewhere
    07-11-2013 01:42 PM
  24. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    Another thing...where on Apple's website does it identify itself as a luxury brand?
    No where
    Why shouldn't it offer products across a wide spectrum of prices?
    There isn't an inarguable reason why they shouldn't and vice versa.
    Is Apple considered luxury because its products are more expensive?
    Some people see it that way. Besides, a combination of build quality & price is often associated with luxury.
    How did Apple become associated with the rich and snobby?
    I'm not sure, but an argument can be made that the introductory price of the original iPhone has something to do with it.
    Seriously, why is Apple held up to a higher level and expected to never offer budget alternatives?
    We the consumers hold Apple to a higher level. Do you not recall the complaints of Apple not being the innovative leader anymore? As for the budget part, that's just a personal viewpoint.
    I just don't get this kind of attitude.

    Sent from somewhere
    It's all good, my friend.
    07-11-2013 02:28 PM
  25. Fausty82's Avatar
    Yeah, but the lower income areas of the United States don't have 1.2 billion people in which to introduce the iOS ecosystem through a budget iPhone. Forget about the iPhone itself. Think about iOS as a whole and increasing that market share. I think Apple would love to hook as many people as they can into their ecosystem. A budget iPhone could go a long way to do that in developing countries.

    Sent from somewhere
    The only flaw that I see in this is that Apple is not at all concerned about "market share"... as long as their profit margins and "revenue share" remain as strong as they are... Now, as I said previously elsewhere, I firmly believe that it’s the "emerging markets" that Apple is focusing on with this product. And that is where Apple does want some penetration and market share, as that translates directly to revenue... where in the US, they have a very loyal fan/customer base that keeps them in the green quite well.
    Just_Me_D likes this.
    07-11-2013 03:18 PM
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