1. ltieperman's Avatar
    You are quite the grump, aren't you? "Think Different" my friend. In 2 or 3 years, when iOS has pop up play (their own version) and the cropping feature and runs multiple apps on the same screen at the same time, and has a dock you can reposition anywhere on the screen or hide, Apple will call it all revolutionary, and you will be shouting to everyone how awesome it all is. And it will be awesome. But that's cool, I get it. Peace.
    10-11-2012 07:46 PM
  2. nubgen's Avatar
    I agree ios6 does feel dated and I hope for a UI refresh. Prob ios8 is when we will see something new, when the iphone 6 comes out!
    10-11-2012 07:48 PM
  3. Fausty82's Avatar
    You are quite the grump, aren't you? "Think Different" my friend.
    Sorry, I gotta go with Sean on this one... let's take a phablet screen - even a 10" screen and have all kinds of things going on at once - trying to watch video, text, surf, etc ... just don't see the point. And the whole stylus thing - again, why? It's so 80's...

    It certainly would be a UI change... but not one that I see as being better...

    ---------- Post Merged at 04:54 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 04:49 PM ----------

    I agree ios6 does feel dated and I hope for a UI refresh. Prob ios8 is when we will see something new, when the iphone 6 comes out!
    Doubtful Apple will ever give you guys the "new UI" all at once... as has been discussed... IF it comes, it will be a slow, steady transition from where we are to where ever "there" is...

    Now, if you had said something like "by the time iOS 8 or 9 rolls out we will have seen the evolution...", well, that would have been something I could buy into... but I still don't think Apple will just scrap the whole UI in favor of something else by iOS 8, 9, 10 or 20... that's not how they roll.
    10-11-2012 07:54 PM
  4. ltieperman's Avatar
    Sorry, I gotta go with Sean on this one... let's take a phablet screen - even a 10" screen and have all kinds of things going on at once - trying to watch video, text, surf, etc ... just don't see the point. And the whole stylus thing - again, why? It's so 80's...

    It certainly would be a UI change... but not one that I see as being better...

    ---------- Post Merged at 04:54 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 04:49 PM ----------



    Doubtful Apple will ever give you guys the "new UI" all at once... as has been discussed... IF it comes, it will be a slow, steady transition from where we are to where ever "there" is...

    Now, if you had said something like "by the time iOS 8 or 9 rolls out we will have seen the evolution...", well, that would have been something I could buy into... but I still don't think Apple will just scrap the whole UI in favor of something else by iOS 8, 9, 10 or 20... that's not how they roll.
    I multitask on my two screens at work all day everyday, with multiple applications running at the same time on both screens. I have no problem doing so. Why would it be a bad thing on a mobile device that is nearly as powerful, and in some ways more powerful, than our computers?

    And I'm not sure there will be much evolution by iOS 8 or 9. How much has changed in iOS since the iPhone came out 5 years ago? They are great at perfecting their OS (except for maps), but the introduction of new tech is not slowing down, it's speeding up. Apple has shown no signs of adjusting yet. Maybe they will.
    10-11-2012 08:01 PM
  5. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    You are quite the grump, aren't you? "Think Different" my friend. In 2 or 3 years, when iOS has pop up play (their own version) and the cropping feature and runs multiple apps on the same screen at the same time, and has a dock you can reposition anywhere on the screen or hide, Apple will call it all revolutionary, and you will be shouting to everyone how awesome it all is. And it will be awesome. But that's cool, I get it. Peace.
    Android had and has several capabilities that a stock iPhone does not and it has been that way for a few years now. Yet, the masses do not care and the sales back up that statement. The masses want simplicity/ease of use and not the ease of use that tech heads want. The iPhone is a smash hit even though some of its features pale in comparison to other devices. Apple has brand recognition and a reputation for producing quality products at an acceptable price. They would ruin that by catering first to tech heads who make up a fraction of its user base rather than to its target market --everyone else, arguably.



    Just Me, D
    10-11-2012 08:10 PM
  6. ltieperman's Avatar
    Android had and has several capabilities that a stock iPhone does not and it has been that way for a few years now. Yet, the masses do not care and the sales back up that statement. The masses want simplicity/ease of use and not the ease of use that tech heads want. The iPhone is a smash hit even though some of its features pale in comparison to other devices. Apple has brand recognition and a reputation for producing quality products at an acceptable price. They would ruin that by catering first to tech heads who make up a fraction of its user base rather than to its target market --everyone else, arguably.
    Just Me, D
    Apple sells a ton of iPhones, and RIM sold a ton of Blackberrys at one time. Android phone activations are at a higher number than iPhones. Why is updating an OS seen as a bad thing by so many people?
    10-11-2012 08:26 PM
  7. BreakingKayfabe's Avatar
    Apple sells a ton of iPhones, and RIM sold a ton of Blackberrys at one time. Android phone activations are at a higher number than iPhones. Why is updating an OS seen as a bad thing by so many people?
    Nobody is really saying it's a bad thing. It's just that until Apple starts seeing sales really being killed because of the OS, they have no incentive to make dramatic changes to it and can continue catering to their target audience
    ThePinkChameleon likes this.
    10-11-2012 08:46 PM
  8. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    Apple sells a ton of iPhones, and RIM sold a ton of Blackberrys at one time. Android phone activations are at a higher number than iPhones. Why is updating an OS seen as a bad thing by so many people?
    Updating an OS or even changing the UI in and of itself is not a bad thing, but it isn't smart, in regard to business, to mess with something dramatically when sales of a particular product are still off the charts and the "target audience" has not shown any interest of being dissatisfied with what is being currently offered.



    Just Me, D
    ThePinkChameleon likes this.
    10-11-2012 08:48 PM
  9. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    You are quite the grump, aren't you? "Think Different" my friend. In 2 or 3 years, when iOS has pop up play (their own version) and the cropping feature and runs multiple apps on the same screen at the same time, and has a dock you can reposition anywhere on the screen or hide, Apple will call it all revolutionary, and you will be shouting to everyone how awesome it all is. And it will be awesome. But that's cool, I get it. Peace.
    What with the pot shot? I was just speaking my opinion on what i saw...thought i kept it pretty civil too? What do you get? So you think its amazing? Ok...i don't. Who cares? You posted the video in retort to my question, so i respond back after watching the video...would i be happy if Apple added some of those features? Sure! Half the stuff is already on the iPhone but i'd certainly be amazed to have a cropping tool for all functions of the phone, and a native messaging feature that i could use while doing something else...but some of it you can have, and I'd say the same thing on the iPhone...you can keep the macbook sized screen, the stylus and that silly video pop up whatever...and a repositioned dock? lol...i can put my icons wherever i want them now...seems a bit moot to me, and as far as the multitasking bar being put anywhere, why? It works perfectly on the bottom, lol. I mean sure, if you wanted that I'd have no problem having it too, but me personally, i don't think id ever use it, my Macbook's dock has never moved from the bottom either...in like 6 years of using OSX.

    ---------- Post Merged at 09:29 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 09:22 PM ----------

    Apple sells a ton of iPhones, and RIM sold a ton of Blackberrys at one time. Android phone activations are at a higher number than iPhones. Why is updating an OS seen as a bad thing by so many people?
    Android activations are higher than the iPhone because 95% of the phones in the world besides the iPhone are Android based phones...of course activations are going to be higher, that's the kind of figures you get when you compare 1,543,648 different models of android devices world wide to one solitary iPhone.

    And no one said updating iOS was a bad thing...my personal stance was that an overhaul wasn't needed (complete refresh, "much needed" change, whatever you want to call it), I'm all for new features, but in my opinion (which amounts to about a hill of beans in the scheme of things) is that the UI is just fine!
    10-11-2012 09:29 PM
  10. evorc's Avatar
    The Pop Up Play feature on the S3 is really the feature I like. It lets you watch HD videos while you surf, email or text all on the same screen at the same time. Is it a feature that everyone wants/needs? Of course not, but it's a cool feature that I, like a lot of people, really like. Again, it's pushing the technology ahead, to see what else can be done.

    For the Note 2, just watch the video and tell me that is not some pretty cool stuff.



    Like I said before, I'm not saying these are the things Apple should do, but Apple can and should be interested in doing something to refresh/modernize the OS. Others are doing it, Apple should be doing their own stuff as well. I would assume they are, but they haven't shown anything very innovative in the OS since the iPhone was introduced 5 years ago.
    My point exactly. I don't care if we don't get option to theme but soon the ios needs to start implementing modern UI improvements.
    10-12-2012 04:04 AM
  11. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    My point exactly. I don't care if we don't get option to theme but soon the ios needs to start implementing modern UI improvements.
    I ask again...what's a modern UI improvement?
    10-12-2012 08:37 AM
  12. Alli's Avatar
    Change is evolution. Rapid change is revolution. I'm happy watching iOS evolve. I don't want to update one day and not recognize anything. As for the constant comparison to Android - basta. Granted, I only know tech heads, but I don't know a single person who doesn't feel compelled to root their Android device and refuses to run stock. I can't say the same of my techie iPhone using friends - they don't jailbreak...they don't feel the need to.

    Adding options is not the same as updating the UI. I sense that some people contributing to this thread don't really even understand what UI stands for as they keep offering things like "the ability to text while watching a movie." Dude...that has nothing to do with the UI.

    Changing the app icons to 2 inches would be a UI change. (Horrible, but a comprehensible example.) Tap and hold on the home screen to access options? That's the UI.

    You may now return to your normal quibbling.
    10-12-2012 08:43 AM
  13. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    Adding options is not the same as updating the UI. I sense that some people contributing to this thread don't really even understand what UI stands for as they keep offering things like "the ability to text while watching a movie." Dude...that has nothing to do with the UI.

    Changing the app icons to 2 inches would be a UI change. (Horrible, but a comprehensible example.) Tap and hold on the home screen to access options? That's the UI.

    You may now return to your normal quibbling.
    Bingo.
    10-12-2012 08:45 AM
  14. ltieperman's Avatar
    I ask again...what's a modern UI improvement?
    That's subjective, and there is no way you or I can answer that for everyone else. That's what developers get paid to do for us!

    Usually Apple insists they know what we "want", so let's see what they think people want. As of now, like you've said, they seem to think most folks don't want anything new. Their sales have proven them right so far. My question is this: how long does Apple wait until they start to "think different" again? Will it be after sales are already slipping? That is a very dangerous game to play, and RIM got killed by thinking that way. Hopefully, and I'm making a huge assumption here of course, they are working behind closed doors to bring something new to the OS. I'm a fan, and I want Apple to bring something new to the table again.

    I think you are missing my main point here...like you, I don't care about the details of what's running on the Note 2 or the size of the device or the stylus, or what I can do with the GS3, or on iOS or Windows Phones. As a fan of technology I'm interested in what's next. I want nothing more than to see all these companies continue to push one another, and Apple changed the mobile game drastically in 2007 to everyone's benefit (consumers, not RIM!) I like what Samsung is doing because they are pushing tech into our hands that we have not really seen before. Is it all good stuff that is functional and useful on a daily basis? Not really. But I don't care about that, I care that they are trying. There could very well be technology out there we don't even know exists that will be part of our daily lives in 5 years or less, and technology companies need to be nimble and flexible to adjust to the amazingly fast pace of technology in the 21st century and take advantage of the rapid changes in direction. Is Apple positioned to be able to do that? Probably. RIM/BB was not.
    Last edited by ltieperman; 10-12-2012 at 09:30 AM.
    10-12-2012 09:15 AM
  15. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    That's subjective, and there is no way you or I can answer that for everyone else. That's what developers get paid to do for us!

    Usually Apple insists they know what we "want", so let's see what they think people want. As of now, like you've said, they seem to think most folks don't want anything new. Their sales have proven them right so far. My question is this: how long does Apple wait until they start to "think different" again? Will it be after sales are already slipping? That is a very dangerous game to play, and RIM got killed by thinking that way. Hopefully, and I'm making a huge assumption here of course, they are working behind closed doors to bring something new to the OS. I'm a fan, and I want Apple to bring something new to the table again.

    I think you are missing my main point here...like you, I don't care about the details of what's running on the Note 2 or the size of the device or the stylus, or what I can do with the GS3, or on iOS or Windows Phones. As a fan of technology I'm interested in what's next. I want nothing more than to see all these companies continue to push one another, and Apple changed the mobile game drastically in 2007 to everyone's benefit. I like what Samsung is doing because they are pushing tech into our hands that we have not really seen before. Is it all good stuff that is functional and useful on a daily basis? Not really. But I don't care about that, I care that they are trying. There could very well be technology out there we don't even know exists that will be part of our daily lives in 5 years or less, and technology companies need to be nimble and flexible to adjust to the amazingly fast pace of technology in the 21st century and take advantage of the rapid changes in direction. Is Apple positioned to be able to do that? Probably. RIM/BB was not.
    I wasn't really missing your point, like Alli said above, i was simply confused why you (and others) kept throwing out all these little features and kept talking about a UI update/refresh/change/etc...I'm all for features, i love new features (as long as they don't lessen the clean and well balanced iOS environment. And while i do understand that spelling out what you or any one person would want in a UI refresh is subjective, i was simply trying to understand some of you guys approach to what the UI encompassed and what you wanted to change...so far all ive seen is just a bunch of little software additions (that could be added as an app without any change to the UI at all).

    I'm not sure i agree totally with your assessment of changes and how quickly they occur when it comes to user interfaces...to be honest, OSX has stayed the same for the better part of the last 5-6 years...adding details here and there, but primarily software additions and enhancements. And while this is happening, you have Microsoft frantically trying to change Windows, going through so many iterations that it's hard to tell what their aim is...all the while OSX keeps plugging along with the same clean layout, and what i still consider the best operating system out there.
    10-12-2012 09:44 AM
  16. ltieperman's Avatar
    I'm not sure i agree totally with your assessment of changes and how quickly they occur when it comes to user interfaces...to be honest, OSX has stayed the same for the better part of the last 5-6 years...adding details here and there, but primarily software additions and enhancements. And while this is happening, you have Microsoft frantically trying to change Windows, going through so many iterations that it's hard to tell what their aim is...all the while OSX keeps plugging along with the same clean layout, and what i still consider the best operating system out there.
    Desktop OS and Mobile OS don't really live in the same worlds anymore, so my thoughts were mainly about mobile tech, and I stand by my statements as far as mobile tech is concerned. But your point is well taken as far as desktop OS.
    10-12-2012 09:58 AM
  17. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    Desktop OS and Mobile OS don't really live in the same worlds anymore, so my thoughts were mainly about mobile tech, and I stand by my statements as far as mobile tech is concerned. But your point is well taken as far as desktop OS.
    I still think there is a very drastic difference between what you guys were suggesting and the idea of a UI change though...even in a fast moving consumer tech world where change is a needed thing (sometimes). And yes, i do agree that computer OS vs. mobile OS CAN be different, but in many ways they share similar character, which is why so many people love iOS, the fact that it has not changed much as far as foundation is one of the reasons i truly think the iPhone continues with it's overwhelming success every year.
    Fausty82 likes this.
    10-12-2012 10:11 AM
  18. ltieperman's Avatar
    I still think there is a very drastic difference between what you guys were suggesting and the idea of a UI change though...even in a fast moving consumer tech world where change is a needed thing (sometimes). And yes, i do agree that computer OS vs. mobile OS CAN be different, but in many ways they share similar character, which is why so many people love iOS, the fact that it has not changed much as far as foundation is one of the reasons i truly think the iPhone continues with it's overwhelming success every year.
    Change is not necessarily needed, it's created. Apple used to be one of the best at it. Let's hope they can get there again.
    10-12-2012 10:18 AM
  19. Ipheuria's Avatar
    Apple likes to keep things simple it is a great way to do things. You are able to gear your device to the broadest market and allow anyone no matter how young or old to enjoy using the device. There are things that Apple will not do because of this, things that will make the interface complicated. Things that people who are less technologically inclined will not understand and may get fed up and frustrated with when using the device. I think that is great and happens to be one of the things that is great about an iPhone when compared to the Android devices. However the iPhone is mainstream now meaning that it sells to a large group of users all different and wanting different things. You can't say that everyone who uses the phone loves it the way it is. Even saying that most of the people you know don't change the stock wallpaper is in the same boat of not representing the majority of users. The small number of people you know are like that but that doesn't mean anything. We don't know what the majority of users do we just assume. However the point that the majority of users use the phone as it is doesn't mean that they don't want more it just may mean they are willing to settle with what they have because this is the device they have choosen. They may want more but unlike us they don't know how to Jailbreak it to get this extra functionality they want.

    My point is that Apple can impliment more advanced settings and keep it out of the OS used by the masses. They just choose not to but by doing it that would go a far way for a lot of people who would give up Jailbreak. It would also make the transition to a new OS which doesn't have a Jailbreak available yet less painful. I do think it is a huge waste to have a beautiful screen and not be able to enjoy it. I would also love to be able to put my icons and folders anywhere on the usable portion of the homescreen without sticking to the grid. It is possible because these are all Jailbreak tweaks. So Apple doesn't have to go whole hog but just provide a little something to make both sides of their user base happy. So like in my example they could have a more advanced iOS that is not pushed out to devices OTA or to iTunes. It is just on their servers for the people advanced enough to download it and restore to it from within iTunes. If someone got it put on their device by a family member or friend with iCloud the solution would be as simple as hitting restore in iTunes or a couple minutes at a genius bar. It could be something as simple as a Lockscreen clock toggle that would turn off the clock to at least let the beauty of the screen shine on the lockscreen. It is the same simplicity as the Wifi toggle anyone that would be able to turn it off could do the same with Wifi and then wonder why the device isn't connecting when they are at home. Sticking to a rigid outline without deviating to benefit the user isn't always what's needed.
    ltieperman likes this.
    10-12-2012 10:23 AM
  20. Fausty82's Avatar
    Change is not necessarily needed, it's created. Apple used to be one of the best at it. Let's hope they can get there again.
    As I and others have stated, the change IS happening with each iteration of iOS. Just because it's not a drastic as you'd like doesn't mean that it isn't happening. It's gradual and evolutionary. Sorry to disappoint.
    Guacho and Alli like this.
    10-12-2012 10:26 AM
  21. ltieperman's Avatar
    As I and others have stated, the change IS happening with each iteration of iOS. Just because it's not a drastic as you'd like doesn't mean that it isn't happening. It's gradual and evolutionary. Sorry to disappoint.
    But none of the iterations are really a change, they are implementations of ideas already done by others. Yes, it is disappointing for me as a fan of what Apple used to be. Android has developed to the current iteration, JellyBean, in the course of just a few short years. It is light years better than what some folks still have on their Android phones in Gingerbread which was released 2 years ago or so. And Google does not stop the development and say OK, this is good stuff, let's stop trying new stuff. They and the manufacturers continue to push the envelope in the development and hardware arenas. I spend every day of my job researching new tech for the thousands of people who work at the international facility where I work. I can tell you for a fact that very few people are excited about anything Apple is doing to push tech forward. Excited about the hardware? Yes, it's awesome hardware. The apps being developed are awesome too, but those are not limited to iOS, and can easily be adapted cross platform, which is what is happening. And if one platform begins to offer advances in functionality that people want, and the other one does not, guess what?
    10-12-2012 10:42 AM
  22. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    Change is not necessarily needed, it's created. Apple used to be one of the best at it. Let's hope they can get there again.
    Apple is still one of the best at it, in the same fashion they always were...they polish the hell out of what works to perfection, they don't jump on gimmicks, and they take features you find on other devices and improve and make them unique to Apple in order to have long lasting native software (though the new maps system is certainly a "work in progress" type deal). Your statements implies that Apple has some how "lost" something...I'd say that millions of people disagree, which leads me to believe that Apple isn't in a hurry to really make any drastic changes anytime soon, and that (to me) is a great thing.
    10-12-2012 10:43 AM
  23. John Yester's Avatar
    Let’s just keep that in mind. “Boring” is relative. This is an exciting conversation to have, but not if it boils down to another pointless (and needless) platform war. Comparing apples to oranges is not always the best use of our time.

    And, believe me, any company would be wise to know when it’s time to change — and that’s usually dictated when sales slide (before, it is hoped, they slide to a severe degree).

    iOS, has most certainly changed — and I personally wish it could change more. I’m sure it’ll continue to change with subtle tweaks. But here’s the thing: iOS hasn’t changed so much as to alienate the customer base. It’s familiar — and familiarity is a good thing when it comes to adoption of new consumer technologies. Apple doesn’t need to change that quickly to satisfy every one of its “normal” customers.
    10-12-2012 10:50 AM
  24. Ipheuria's Avatar
    I just want to ask one question to all the people who love the way Apple is doing things. We all agree that Apple keeps things simple so that everyone can use the devices easily correct. So icons are kept to a strict grid because allowing users to put things anywhere on the usable homescreen would confuse some people. Yet in iOS even if I have a whole empty row on my homescreen when I install a new app it goes to the second screen. Now you might think it's simple everyone knows to swipe to the next screen but how is that easy for an 80 year old user? Let's just say for arguments sake they can't find the new app people will say just use spotlight again I'm not sure that is so simple that anyone can use it.

    It is a simple example that things aren't always simple. The point is allowing icons and folders to be put anywhere on the homescreen doesn't mean you can have it half hanging ontop of another it still snaps to the grid it's just not an absolute grid. This is something simple that Apple will probably never do, why?

    ---------- Post Merged at 10:56 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 10:52 AM ----------

    Let’s just keep that in mind. “Boring” is relative. This is an exciting conversation to have, but not if it boils down to another pointless (and needless) platform war. Comparing apples to oranges is not always the best use of our time.

    And, believe me, any company would be wise to know when it’s time to change — and that’s usually dictated when sales slide (before, it is hoped, they slide to a severe degree).

    iOS, has most certainly changed — and I personally wish it could change more. I’m sure it’ll continue to change with subtle tweaks. But here’s the thing: iOS hasn’t changed so much as to alienate the customer base. It’s familiar — and familiarity is a good thing when it comes to adoption of new consumer technologies. Apple doesn’t need to change that quickly to satisfy every one of its “normal” customers.
    People keep saying it's familiar and this is the benefit. Well maybe I'm wrong here but I didn't think we're talking about changing what is familiar I thought what we have gotten to now is why Apple wont impliment things that are beneficial to the user instead sticking to keeping it simple. Familiar doesn't have to mean simple, sticking a toggle for a lockscreen clock doesn't change the way icons are arranged on the homescreen, etc. Allowing icons to be placed anywhere on the homescreen grid doesn't affect the function of the home button or pinch to zoom.
    10-12-2012 10:56 AM
  25. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    But none of the iterations are really a change, they are implementations of ideas already done by others. Yes, it is disappointing for me as a fan of what Apple used to be. Android has developed to the current iteration, JellyBean, in the course of just a few short years. It is light years better than what some folks still have on their Android phones in Gingerbread which was released 2 years ago or so. And Google does not stop the development and say OK, this is good stuff, let's stop trying new stuff. They and the manufacturers continue to push the envelope in the development and hardware arenas. I spend every day of my job researching new tech for the thousands of people who work at the international facility where I work. I can tell you for a fact that very few people are excited about anything Apple is doing to push tech forward. Excited about the hardware? Yes, it's awesome hardware. The apps being developed are awesome too, but those are not limited to iOS, and can easily be adapted cross platform, which is what is happening. And if one platform begins to offer advances in functionality that people want, and the other one does not, guess what?
    lol...do you really believe that google develops the android OS because it's great and they want to make it greater? Come on now man, Jellybean is honestly one of the FIRST iterations of the OS that people have widely been truly satisfied with, and the nature of Google's development speed on it really doesn't have much to do with trying to better something that is good, it comes from having so many variants of the OS out there and trying to find one that is worthy to be seen on their elite level phones. No offense to Google, they've made a pretty damn good OS now, but this is not something they are veterans at yet by any means...they've really just now found a platform they can start building on.

    As far as your comment on how very few people are excited about anything Apple is doing to push tech...your view is a very small field, as is any one person's, even in a tech industry. Looking at patent claims from Apple over the last few years, I'd say the excitement level across the board seems to be about where it always has been when it comes to the iPhone, knowing that Apple will add a new pieces of hardware (which is pushing tech mind you) while continuing to give us a very clean, reliable and easy to use interface to experience with.

    It's like Honda...honda was widely known to be a "reliable" company that you could buy, drive and not worry about...and while they retained that label, they also produced performance cars that held the same character as the reliable every day cars you saw, but also gave you the excitement of a sports car. They had the market by the balls for decades, and then what did they do? They started changing what worked...they started going to the root of what others were doing, trying to implement "popular" things into their line up, dropping some of the models that kept people excited and essentially, they've completely ruined their efforts now...you have domestic manufacturers outing them in nearly every category. And why? Because they went with niche changes that were great at the moment, but not in the long term.

    I'm personally thankful that Apple has proven over the last couple of decades that they don't buy into what other companies do as the success they want to achieve, especially considering they are the front runners in success lately when it comes to consumer electronics.
    10-12-2012 11:02 AM
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