Jailbroken iPhone users getting locked out of the App Store

Status
Not open for further replies.

Fausty82

Well-known member
Jun 23, 2010
8,484
286
0
Visit site
Kind of hard to think that when Absinthe 2.0 is out!!! and 5.1.1 JailBreak Waiting Room..... topics are the hottest, most viewed, and most popular topic on this forum right now. Add to that that Absinthe 2.0 was used to jailbreak nearly one million iOS devices in a single weekend.

A single weekend.



Yes they can feed their family with popular, popularity is synonymous with $$$. Especially in an ecosystem like iOS. Blocking your own apps is just going to equal less money.

Jailbreaking, however, is not synonymous with piracy. You have to look for Installous.

I won't even discuss the piracy issue any more. It's wrong. And, while not all JBers are pirates, you can't run pirated warez on an iOS device without it being JB... and I personally know a couple of folks who did JB just for the cracked (stolen) apps. I also know a large number of JBers who don't run pirated warez and feel about that subject as I do.

However, you have still not addressed my question of whether or not the software developer is also free to do as he/she chooses with their software - i.e., block is from jailbroken devices... Yes ro no?
 
Last edited:

Just_Me_D

Ambassador Team Leader, Senior Moderator
Moderator
Jan 8, 2012
59,709
632
113
Visit site
Kind of hard to think that when Absinthe 2.0 is out!!! and 5.1.1 JailBreak Waiting Room..... topics are the hottest, most viewed, and most popular topic on this forum right now. Add to that that Absinthe 2.0 was used to jailbreak nearly one million iOS devices in a single weekend.

A single weekend.......(snipped)...
You are right about jailbreaking iOS 5.1.1 being the hottest topic in the iMore forums this past weekend as well as the reported amount of devices being jailbroken during the same timeframe, however, please remember that the people who peruse this forum doesn't compare to the amount of iOS device users who do not and those that do are, more than likely, techie types like us.





Just Me, D
(Tapatalk - iPhone 4S)
 

ModeratorOMD

Banned
Dec 7, 2011
587
12
0
Visit site
However, you have still not addressed my question of whether or not the software developer is also free to do as he/she chooses with their software - i.e., block is from jailbroken devices... Yes ro no?

Yes. The software developers are free to lock their own apps to Jailbroken users. I would just NOT recommend it, because you don't see that often with.. anything, and I would say that the idea to do that is insane.

But the point you made that the phone has to be Jailbroken to pirate apps is not valid. This shows just how little you know about Jailbreaking. You have just condensed it into, Jailbreak = Free Apps.

The clue's in the title. Jailbreaking enables the user to have flexibllity and customize their iPhone to their liking. You get advantages different from a normal iPhone, such as full screen for Safari, saving battery life, fixing screen rotation issues, and not having the ability to hide Newstand, the screen rotation issues, being is inherent in normal iPhones.

This "Installous" doesn't come with the Jailbreak, you have to actively search for where to find it. You don't just automatically have access to free apps.

But actively trying to make Jailbreaking look bad, by saying that it's all about piracy, and locking Jailbroken devices out of the app store and penalizing people form simply trying your app simply because their device is Jailbroken is not OK.

Most people don't know what to think about it because if they have never heard of Installous, they are going to wonder what is wrong with the developer who decided to lock out their own app to a portion of iPhone users.

We really don't care because apps are a dime a dozen. Good developers wouldn't do something like this.
 
Last edited:

Fausty82

Well-known member
Jun 23, 2010
8,484
286
0
Visit site
Yes. The software developers are free to lock their own apps to Jailbroken users. I would just NOT recommend it, because you don't see that often with.. anything, and I would say that the idea to do that is insane.

But the point you made that the phone has to be Jailbroken to pirate apps is not valid. This shows just how little you know about Jailbreaking. You have just condensed it into, Jailbreak = Free Apps.

The clue's in the title. Jailbreaking enables the user to have flexibllity and customize their iPhone to their liking. You get advantages over other iPhone users, such as full screen for Safari, saving battery life, fixing screen rotation issues, and not having the ability to hide Newstand, the screen rotation issues, being is inherent in normal iPhones.

This "Installous" doesn't come with the Jailbreak, you have to actively search for where to find it. You don't just automatically have access to free apps.

But actively trying to make Jailbreaking look bad, by saying that it's all about piracy, and locking Jailbroken devices out of the app store and penalizing people form simply trying your app simply because their device is Jailbroken is not OK. Most people don't know what to think about it because if they have never heard of Installous, they are going to wonder what is wrong with the developer who decided to lock out their own app to a portion of iPhone users.

We really don't care because apps are a dime a dozen. Good developers wouldn't do something like this.

It's true that installous and other cracked warez repos are not a part of Cydia and that they don't come with the jailbreak process. However, it is NOT possible to access those repositories and install their contents WITHOUT being jailbroken.

I have not tried to make jailbreaking "look bad"... I have simply pointed out that the majority of IOS users are not jailbroken, as you have stated... and that SOME of the people who jailbreak do so with the intent of finding pirated software. And jailbreaking does make the process of pirating easier... and as I said earlier, I do know several who have done the JB just for that reason.

I also know many who have jailbroken simply for the ability to customize their device - and there is nothing wrong with that, IMO.

Just don't come in here whining because you can't get some software from the iOS App Store because the developer has chosen (for whatever reason) to block the use of their software on a jailbroken device and start spewing comments like the half of the iOS world is jailbroken and doing so loses the developers tons of cash. I seriously believe that the developers who block JBers from using their apps are (1) within their rights to do so and (2) are aware that their resulting customer base is smaller than it could be.
 

ModeratorOMD

Banned
Dec 7, 2011
587
12
0
Visit site
Just don't come in here whining because you can't get some software from the iOS App Store because the developer has chosen (for whatever reason) to block the use of their software on a jailbroken device and start spewing comments like the half of the iOS world is jailbroken and doing so loses the developers tons of cash. I seriously believe that the developers who block JBers from using their apps are (1) within their rights to do so and (2) are aware that their resulting customer base is smaller than it could be.

And here, I agree with you.

I'd be interested in learning how.

Just look at Angry Birds, they are dominating. Just because people download your app for free does not mean that they will not buy it. People are ready and willing to buy your app even if they've already pirated it.

Angry Birds CEO, I completely agree with him.

Rovio CEO Mikael Hed says that treating Angry Birds pirates as "fans" might be good for business.

Angry Birds have a very bright future, is very successful right now, as they should be. If I had an app, I would not mind people pirating it, I would hope they did. It's the best form of advertising. This forum tells the tale, the number one topic Absinthe has 11752 views. To lock out your app to the public tells me that the developer does not understand Jailbreaking.

At least Skype was smart enough to continue to allow people to use the app. Where I can then spend money within it, whereas if they had simply locked it out, that's money lost. Skype is free. I have never pirated it. That's 100% revenue for not having that app locked. Developers locking their own apps are losing money and popularity quick.

P.S. I have pirated Angry Birds, deleted the pirated version and bought all versions of Angry Birds, and I also buy their merchandise, such as candy.
 
Last edited:

Fausty82

Well-known member
Jun 23, 2010
8,484
286
0
Visit site
Just look at Angry Birds, they are dominating. Just because people download your app for free does not mean that they will not buy it. People are ready and willing to buy your app even if they've already pirated it.

Angry Birds CEO, I completely agree with him.

Rovio CEO Mikael Hed says that treating Angry Birds pirates as "fans" might be good for business.

Angry Birds have a very bright future, is very successful right now, as they should be. If I had an app, I would not mind people pirating it, I would hope they did. It's the best form of advertising. This forum tells the tale, the number one topic Absinthe has 11752 views. To lock out your app to the public tells me that the developer does not understand Jailbreaking.

At lease Skype was smart enough to continue to allow people to use the app. Where I can then spend money on the app, whereas if they had simply locked it out, that's money lost.

Skype is free. I have never pirated it. That's 100% revenue. Developers locking their own apps are losing money and popularity quick.

P.S. I have pirated Angry Birds, deleted the pirated version and bought all versions of Angry Birds, and I also buy their merchandise, such as candy.

Angry BIrds (and many games) have multiple versions - for OSX, iPhone/iPod and iPad... both free (ad supported) and paid. But just because one developer makes a statement like he did doesn't make it right for every developer - nor does is necessarily make it a wise business model.

But again, I have to go back to whether or not there's a TECHNICAL issue involved. If I develop an app, and based on the changes introduced into the iOS devices' firmware and/or substrate code by the jailbreak process my software no longer functions properly, you can be very sure that I'd find a way to block it. If that causes my software to run poorly or to constantly crash, it could very easily be seen as a deficiency in MY product, when in fact, the problem was cause by the changes to the iOS behavior by introducing the jailbreak. It's what a developer does to protect his/her brand.
 

ModeratorOMD

Banned
Dec 7, 2011
587
12
0
Visit site
A&E Television Network however, (not the History Channel) did not lock it to protect their brand. They locked it out of spite for Jailbroken customers. DCMA.

Anyone who has an iPhone has the opportunity to pirate. The vast majority of people do not pirate, and do you know what that vast majority includes? Jailbroken and non Jailbroken customers.

That's right, the base of users who do not pirate consists of Jailbroken and non Jailbroken customers.

So, they should be fair and just take the entire app off of the app store, because if you have an iPhone, you have the opportunity to pirate, just as if you are Jailbroken, you have the opportunity to pirate.

That's discrimination against Jailbroken iPhone users.
 

Garz

Retired Moderator
Mar 9, 2009
8,172
155
37
Visit site
These days, you have to have a jailbroken iPhone if you truly want to take advantage of the device. The kinds of developers that are making these unusable apps are not real developers.

If I had an app, I wouldn't mind it becoming pirated, that's one of the best ways to become popular.

The war is on, it's really on.

If I had a app, I would not want my app pirated.... at all.
 

ModeratorOMD

Banned
Dec 7, 2011
587
12
0
Visit site
If I had a app, I would not want my app pirated.... at all.

And some people don't. But like you say if it's only 2.8 million out of 285 million iPhones that are Jailbroken, it's not just those numbers, it's also the numbers of the people most likely to buy your apps. Just because you have a normal iPhone doesn't make it any more likely that your app will be bought.

But word of mouth does.

By the way, I need to find a fix to stop reloading webpages in Safari on my Jailbroken iPhone. I'm trying to multitask here!
 

3cit

Well-known member
Nov 6, 2011
3,044
63
0
Visit site
Let's not get carried away with "locked out"... I mean honestly, how many applications block functionality because a device is jail broken, Skype gives you a warning message, but still works... Time Warner, but now we get into percentiles of percentiles (percent of people who have one warner and ALSO have a jail broken device) and what else exactly???
There's a lot more shady tactics going in from developers then worrying about which developer is going to block his app from being run on a jail broken device... It's not like apple isnt allowing you to access the app store....
 

ModeratorOMD

Banned
Dec 7, 2011
587
12
0
Visit site
But we're missing one utterly important question here. Since everyone wants to come in here talking about piracy...

What will happen to JB customers who have purchased apps from app store? Nobody even thought about this, when this should have been the main focus of the conversation.

What you all fail to see is that Jailbroken customers are exactly that, customers. They are no different from any other iPhone user. Even if the app is purchase for $0.00, it's still a purchase, and counts as a download. But in many cases, many many cases, Jailbroken customers pay for $0.99 and $2.99 apps. All the time, in fact.

So what happens when we get this error message? Do we get our money back? We should, we should be getting every penny of our money back.

I would demand it.

There's other ways to deter from people pirating your app. I understand that people want to stop piracy, but locking your app to customers from the app store is, as stated, stupid.
 

ghostface147

Well-known member
Oct 1, 2009
3,723
153
0
Visit site
You choose to jailbreak your phone, too bad. Deal with the consequences. While not illegal, it voids your warranty, so why should an app work? As stated before, I know a good number of people on here don't JB to pirate, but as a developer you have to assume people do. And guess what? People do pirate. So you have to make a blanket policy.

If you purchased a program and then jailbreak and an app stopped working, too bad. That's the consequence. No refunds. You chose the JB option, now deal with the after effects.
 

Just_Me_D

Ambassador Team Leader, Senior Moderator
Moderator
Jan 8, 2012
59,709
632
113
Visit site
But we're missing one utterly important question here. Since everyone wants to come in here talking about piracy...

What will happen to JB customers who have purchased apps from app store? Nobody even thought about this, when this should have been the main focus of the conversation.

What you all fail to see is that Jailbroken customers are exactly that, customers. They are no different from any other iPhone user. Even if the app is purchase for $0.00, it's still a purchase, and counts as a download. But in many cases, many many cases, Jailbroken customers pay for $0.99 and $2.99 apps. All the time, in fact.

So what happens when we get this error message? Do we get our money back? We should, we should be getting every penny of our money back.

I would demand it.

There's other ways to deter from people pirating your app. I understand that people want to stop piracy, but locking your app to customers from the app store is, as stated, stupid.

Look at this way: purchasing JB apps is like purchasing off the black market, so to speak. The purchase comes with a risk. I'm not saying the developers are crooks or the apps are no good or anything like that. I was just using this as an analogy. Apple is very protective of the products they sell and they have no problem booting an app out of the App store for violating their rules and I can only assume that some developers will not want to risk that especially if it is their sole source of income. Know what I mean?


Just Me, D
(Tapatalk - iPhone 4S)
 

kch50428

Well-known member
Oct 22, 2010
21,025
305
0
Visit site
Look at this way: purchasing JB apps is like purchasing off the black market, so to speak. The purchase comes with a risk. I'm not saying the developers are crooks or the apps are no good or anything like that. I was just using this as an analogy. Apple is very protective of the products they sell and they have no problem booting an app out of the App store for violating their rules and I can only assume that some developers will not want to risk that especially if it is their sole source of income. Know what I mean?

Buying on the "black market' should never preclude a consumer from use of the "official" store - that's the whole point here.
 

ModeratorOMD

Banned
Dec 7, 2011
587
12
0
Visit site
Apple is very protective of the products they sell and they have no problem booting an app out of the App store for violating their rules and I can only assume that some developers will not want to risk that especially if it is their sole source of income. Know what I mean?

No. How are they going to have income when we're all going to be getting refunds?

Yes, many people do choose to jailbreak, and I'm perfectly happy with the results.

A developer that assumes that Jailbroken customers are pirates also assumes normal iPhone customers are also pirates by the same logic. Apple doesn't do it. Because Apple knows that Apple users often have more than one device, that doesn't mean they're all jailbroken, you're aggravating your own customers.

It's like only allowing your app to work with one carrier. Apple knows that seamless connectivity across all of your devices is conducive to their success. Jailbroken or not. It's just fragmentation of the user base and it's a disservice to customers, the developers themselves and Apple.
 

Just_Me_D

Ambassador Team Leader, Senior Moderator
Moderator
Jan 8, 2012
59,709
632
113
Visit site
Buying on the "black market' should never preclude a consumer from use of the "official" store - that's the whole point here.

I get that and I agree with you, however, the fact still remains that JBing violates your warranty and developers can configure their apps to not function on a JB device. Whether they should or shouldn't is irrelevant. They can and some do. It's not illegal or unethical. Now from a personal standpoint, once you've purchased your device, you can do whatever the heck you want with it as long as it does not harm the network it is connected to or infringe on a patent of some sort.


Just Me, D
(Tapatalk - iPhone 4S)
 

ModeratorOMD

Banned
Dec 7, 2011
587
12
0
Visit site
For every drawback you've given for jailbreaking devices, you seem to have forgotten that an iPhone is an iPhone. All you have to do is press the reset button.

It's just people trying to put jailbreaking in a bad light that bothers me, and they're going out of there way to do it.
 

Just_Me_D

Ambassador Team Leader, Senior Moderator
Moderator
Jan 8, 2012
59,709
632
113
Visit site
No. How are they going to have income when we're all going to be getting refunds?
You are assuming that the number of the people who are purchasing the apps are greater with those who jailbreak.

Yes, many people do choose to jailbreak, and I'm perfectly happy with the results.
I have no problem whatsoever with people who choose to JB their devices.

A developer that assumes that Jailbroken customers are pirates also assumes normal iPhone customers are also pirates by the same logic.
I never said that. Besides, I refuse to believe that all developers assume that their customers are all pirates. If I were a developer, I wouldn't care who purchased my apps.
Apple doesn't do it. Because Apple knows that Apple users often have more than one device, that doesn't mean they're all jailbroken, you're aggravating your own customers.
The people at Apple are fully aware of the JB community and I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't take a few tips from them to improve on their customers' user experience.

It's like only allowing your app to work with one carrier. Apple knows that seamless connectivity across all of your devices is conducive to their success. Jailbroken or not. It's just fragmentation of the user base and it's a disservice to customers, the developers themselves and Apple.
True, however, with the purchase of software comes a user agreement. You agree to the terms of that agreement when you begin using the software. If in that agreement it states that you cannot use the particular software with a jailbroken device, so be it. The number of users who do not JB still outnumber those who do.



Just Me, D
(Tapatalk - iPhone 4S)
 
Last edited:

Just_Me_D

Ambassador Team Leader, Senior Moderator
Moderator
Jan 8, 2012
59,709
632
113
Visit site
For every drawback you've given for jailbreaking devices, you seem to have forgotten that an iPhone is an iPhone. All you have to do is press the reset button.

It's just people trying to put jailbreaking in a bad light that bothers me, and they're going out of there way to do it.

NO NO NO! I would never do that. I will say again that I have no problem whatsoever with people jailbreaking their devices. It is their prerogative. Period! I was merely arguing the point why it is okay for a developer to choose to not allow his or her developed app to work on a jailbroken device. At least that is what I attempted to do. At no time did I attack or demean anyone for jailbreaking their device. Heck, if I wasn't so customized out from my time with Android, my iPhone and iPad might be jailbroken already. ;)


Just Me, D
(Tapatalk - iPhone 4S)
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.