1. Squeeze Play's Avatar
    I don't know about the majority but its definitely a nice percentage. I write music and for that reason I refuse to steal what someone else has taken the time and energy to create. I had a jailbroken iPhone 3GS and then a jailbroken iPhone 4 and I never put a stolen app on either of them. It would have been really easy to do so the only reason that I didn't do it was because I just didn't feel right. Why don't these people think that stealing access to Siri is wrong?
    Same here. I love using a jailbroken iPhone, but I never steal or used pirated apps on it. I use my jailbreak to enhance and extend functionality on my iPhone.
    10-23-2011 11:31 PM
  2. Jellotime91's Avatar
    Majority? I respectfully disagree. If the majority JB'd to get paid apps for free, why would a developer create an app for JB'd phones and charge for it. There wouldn't be anything in it for him if there were not enough people buying them. Why would Saurik maintain Cydia? It would serve no purpose for him either.

    Of course there are those that install cracked apps. There are thieves everywhere. But, I choose to believe that the majority are moral and pay for what they install.
    You ever been to China?

    You can go into any cell shops and they will jailbreak your iPhone and install a suite of 100 or so of the most popular apps and games. This accounts for a huuuuuge percentage of jail breakers, I have no doubt about it.
    10-23-2011 11:46 PM
  3. robes1's Avatar
    Wow! Never knew that! Somebody should call Apple! They'll probably get 75 years! LOL! The cops don't play over there! People actually went to prison for leaking iPhone/iPad info.
    10-24-2011 12:22 AM
  4. robes1's Avatar
    Regardless of all that Siri should be protected! It's not just a game like Angry Birds! Too many people can cripple it!
    10-24-2011 12:23 AM
  5. Massie's Avatar
    I'm happy to see your thoughts on Jailbreaking. So I'll take your stances on that to mean that you are mostly against Siri being added to the iPhone 4. Am I correct?
    Not sure if you mean me here, but I'm happy to share my thoughts. Basically, they are that I am all for jailbreaking and all against pirating paid apps. It might be of interest, in light of the way this thread has gone, to know that I was jailbroken for a couple of years--and used a ton of tweaks and jailbreak apps available for free in Cydia--before I purchased my first jailbreak app (BiteSMS).

    I've since gone on to purchase other jb apps, but it goes to show that the community has always been more interested in extending the functionality of iDevices above making money. For as long as I can remember, the number of free apps, tweaks, and themes available in Cydia has far outweighed the number of paid apps, and if all people were interested in was stealing App Store apps then 99% of Cydia would not exist. The fact that it does--and that it predominates the jailbreak world--is a testament to the fact that the people who are really interested in the possibilities of jailbreaking itself (as opposed to those who simply view it as a means of circumventing Apple's App Store payments) are people who are primarily interested in extending the functionality of their devices and the design possibilities of iOS (without any hard numbers, I'd guess that the VAST majority of what is available in Cydia are themes, which take exactly zero dollars away from App Store developers--mainly because Apple refuses to allow devs to alter the appearance of iDevices).

    For me, jailbreaking is simply about opening up the full potential of the device--to be able to customize it as I see fit so that its features match my needs. More than any other handheld before it, an iDevice is a handheld computer, and I don't believe any of us would accept a computer that we couldn't customize as needed. These days, I don't use a ton of jailbreak apps, but the few I use cover many bases. My main installs are LockInfo and BiteSMS--both of which I purchased a full license for (even though Bite also offers a free version) and both of which cost considerably more than most App Store apps. But these two apps provide something that Apple will not: lockscreen functionality.

    With LockInfo I can view, dismiss, or act on a plethora of notifications right from the lockscreen. Additionally, it gives me notifications in the status bar so I can see at a glance what pending issues are awaiting action, and allows me to block the constant pop-up bubbles that accompany every notification in Apple's native interface. With BiteSMS I can compose and reply to text messages right from the lockscreen--or anywhere, in fact--without being forced to open the native Messages app, something that saves me a surprising amount of time each day.

    There are plenty of other examples, but this is already a bit outside of the scope of this thread. To get back to the Siri question: I haven't given it much thought, simply because Siri isn't a service that appeals to me very much. The idea of talking to my phone strikes me as fairly ridiculous, especially when I imagine doing it in public. That said, I'm not entirely convinced that porting it to earlier iDevices is tantamount to theft. Apple, after all, isn't selling the service--they're just limiting it to a newer device, presumably due to hardware limitations. (In other words, iPhone 4S buyers aren't paying an extra fee on their plan for using Siri--and they're paying the same price for their device that iPhone 4 buyers paid a little over a year ago.)

    A few years ago, Apple limited native video recording to the 3GS, but allowed a lesser quality version for the 3G in apps like Qik and iCamcorder--to me, this seems a similar situation. Users of older devices, if they are able to use Siri at all, will be getting a subpar experience, one that Apple is free not to support. But in the end--and I have neither the time nor inclination to dig through the legalese of the End User Licensing Agreement on the various iPhones--it may not be illegal.

    At any rate, the Siri issue is outside my wheelhouse. My main point is simply that there is a vast and vital world of jailbreakers out there--developers, users, themers, and hackers--who have no interest in stealing but every interest in making their device perform to its fullest potential, and those are the people with whom I will always side.
    Last edited by Massie; 10-24-2011 at 12:42 AM.
    cardfan, redbeard and OutSpoken like this.
    10-24-2011 12:39 AM
  6. robes1's Avatar
    To me Siri and video recording have nothin to do with each other and no matter what other thievery you compare it to its still stealing. There will always be those who use a gift or a creation in the wrong way. I have guns in my home because I learned to love them through hunting and my time in the military. I now only use them for the protection of my family. Of course there are those who would use them to take what others have earned and created just like jail breaking. It wasn't created for theft.
    10-24-2011 01:29 AM
  7. ckalli's Avatar
    screw that! i jailbreak for all the wrong reasons.. and i love it!
    10-24-2011 02:23 AM
  8. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    Were you this upset when people figured out how to put the new iPhone 4 text tones on the 3GS? Just curious...

    Personally, I'd rather have Siri brought to the iPhone 4 and take some of these idiots that damn near kill people every time they pick up their iPhone while they drive than worry about the ethical side of them obtaining such technology. I know that brings up the question of "When do you draw the line?", but to be honest, this is a fairly thin point you have here compared to most software piracy, but alas, a point you still have...i guess I'd just have to honestly say, are you that bent out of shape about it?

    Personally, i wish Apple would give iPhone 4 owners the option to BUY Siri support. That would solve my issues with the situation...and give iPhone 4 owners a legitimate option. After that, i absolutely stand by your argument against a jailbroken version...but without that option, to me its a moot point...you have a technology that WILL WORK on the iPhone 4, restricting its use to the 4S exclusively would be like releasing a car and then a year later releasing the identical car with better wheels, wheels that will fit the older version, and having someone make some knock off versions but telling those who want to get the knock offs they are thieves for not buying the OEM model that comes with the wheels...its just silly to me, and something people should get over.
    10-24-2011 08:11 AM
  9. kosiina's Avatar
    I wanna SIRI...
    10-24-2011 08:16 AM
  10. robes1's Avatar
    Were you this upset when people figured out how to put the new iPhone 4 text tones on the 3GS? Just curious...

    Personally, I'd rather have Siri brought to the iPhone 4 and take some of these idiots that damn near kill people every time they pick up their iPhone while they drive than worry about the ethical side of them obtaining such technology. I know that brings up the question of "When do you draw the line?", but to be honest, this is a fairly thin point you have here compared to most software piracy, but alas, a point you still have...i guess I'd just have to honestly say, are you that bent out of shape about it?

    Personally, i wish Apple would give iPhone 4 owners the option to BUY Siri support. That would solve my issues with the situation...and give iPhone 4 owners a legitimate option. After that, i absolutely stand by your argument against a jailbroken version...but without that option, to me its a moot point...you have a technology that WILL WORK on the iPhone 4, restricting its use to the 4S exclusively would be like releasing a car and then a year later releasing the identical car with better wheels, wheels that will fit the older version, and having someone make some knock off versions but telling those who want to get the knock offs they are thieves for not buying the OEM model that comes with the wheels...its just silly to me, and something people should get over.
    I said the exact same thing in this thread already. If they allowed them to pay for Siri and download it then I would be totally fine with it. I don't want to stop people from being able to buy anything. Including Siri's services. But stealing is stealing. I also agree that it would be a big help to anyone driving and trying to use a phone. I've already become dependent on it when I'm driving.
    10-24-2011 08:43 AM
  11. HeyGreggie's Avatar
    Does jailbreaking thee 4s lose Siri? I'm confused
    10-24-2011 08:56 AM
  12. robes1's Avatar
    No. Jail breaking the 4s shouldn't lose Siri. But that's something that I never even considered. That would be one major way that Apple could keep millions of people from jailbreaking. I definitely wouldn't do it of it would cause me to lose Siri. What we are talking about is people who will add Siri to the iPhone 4 after jailbreaking if the people working on a fix can make it happen. I don't think that it's right.
    10-24-2011 09:01 AM
  13. StaticFX's Avatar
    i find it strange that you cant buy Siri for the 4... Apple would make a fortune because siri could easily be sold for $9.99 (or more)

    It makes me wonder if there is some other reason? maybe the performance on the 4 was bad? who knows.. either way, I am all for Jailbreaking and being able to install/do what you want to your phone... but not cool with stealing the siri app.
    10-24-2011 09:10 AM
  14. DannyMichel's Avatar
    The jailbreak community is absolutely tiny, especially compared to the huge community of iPhone 4S users. Dude, 4 million in 3 days...

    I do not think Siri should be ported via jailbreak either, but not because of server load. :P
    Exactly. It is tiny


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    10-24-2011 09:24 AM
  15. robes1's Avatar
    I have no idea how Siri would have performed on the 4 but I'm thinking that the amount of people who have a 4 already might have played a huge part in the making of that decision. There are millions and millions of people with the 4. If the 4 million people who got the 4S crippled Siri can you imagine what would have happened if all the people who got the 4 over the past year and a half on top of the new 4 million 4S owners jumped on at once? It would still be down. They were not even ready for all of the 4S owners. Siri went down hard.
    10-24-2011 09:26 AM
  16. Massie's Avatar
    We'll have to revisit this thread in the event that Apple ends up making Siri available on the 4 some day. In the meantime, I also wonder how people feel about Apple taking away the existing Siri service from users of older devicesI'm talking here about the app that was released ages before the 4S. That one was DESIGNED to work on older devices, but Apple has now decided that we aren't allowed to use that version either. I wonder why?

    The Original Siri App Gets Pulled From The App Store, Servers To Be Killed | TechCrunch
    Last edited by Massie; 10-24-2011 at 10:09 AM.
    10-24-2011 09:34 AM
  17. Fausty82's Avatar
    What I find most interesting is the OP's reasoning for this stance. It's not morality (jailbreaking = stealing = morally wrong [yes, arguable logic]) as opposed to the fact that if it's available on the iPhone 4, traffic on the Siri servers will increase, affecting his experience. I don't see this as much more that the standard issue of ox-goring not being a problem, until it's your ox that's being gored.

    From where I sit, not much of an issue. Moving on...
    cardfan and redbeard like this.
    10-24-2011 09:35 AM
  18. robes1's Avatar
    What I find most interesting is the OP's reasoning for this stance. It's not morality (jailbreaking = stealing = morally wrong [yes, arguable logic]) as opposed to the fact that if it's available on the iPhone 4, traffic on the Siri servers will increase, affecting his experience. I don't see this as much more that the standard issue of ox-goring not being a problem, until it's your ox that's being gored.

    From where I sit, not much of an issue. Moving on...
    I guess you read what you wanted to read and not everything obviously. I also said that I spent money on a 4S to get Siri and that others who want it should have to do the same. Can you see it now? Now, I could understand a problem that comes from too many people who spent money on it causing it to crash but freeloaders causing it to crash is an entirely different animal all together. And totally unfair.
    10-24-2011 09:57 AM
  19. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    "Stealing is Stealing"

    ...lol, perhaps my career has jaded me to what stealing REALLY is, but anyways...i bow out of this one.
    Fausty82 likes this.
    10-24-2011 09:59 AM
  20. robes1's Avatar
    We'll have to revisit this thread in the event that Apple ends up making Siri available on the 4 some day. In the meantime, I also wonder how people feel about Apple taking away the existing Siri service from users of older devicesI'm talking here about the app that was released ages before the 4S. That one was DESIGNED to work on older devices, but Apple has now decided that we aren't allowed to use that version either. I wonder why?

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    I already read about this problem. I don't know what to make of it. I definitely believe that people who already had the app should be allowed to keep it. Especially if it wasn't a free app. Nobody should have an app taken away that they spent their money on. This isn't the first time that Apple has done this although the other instance was for different reasons. I'm thinking back to when certain apps that allowed you to tether hit the app store and how they were disguised as something else. I think that one of them was supposed to have been a flashlight app but it had a hidden trick which was the ability to add tethering functionality to your iPhone when it wasn't available. Not the same thing but the same end result. People spent money and the app was later removed. What would Jesus do? Probably kick you off iCloud?! LOL!
    10-24-2011 10:02 AM
  21. Timhewitt's Avatar
    If you bought the earlier version of Siri, Apple gave you an iTunes credit when they pulled it from the store.
    10-24-2011 10:04 AM
  22. cardfan's Avatar
    I have no idea how Siri would have performed on the 4 but I'm thinking that the amount of people who have a 4 already might have played a huge part in the making of that decision. There are millions and millions of people with the 4. If the 4 million people who got the 4S crippled Siri can you imagine what would have happened if all the people who got the 4 over the past year and a half on top of the new 4 million 4S owners jumped on at once? It would still be down. They were not even ready for all of the 4S owners. Siri went down hard.
    You should direct any frustration or anger at Apple, not anyone else. If Siri doesn't work right, take it up with Apple. I understand you enjoy this feature. But Apple is aware of the jailbreak scene. They pay people enough to worry about this stuff.

    For example, if you're concerned all those mywi or free tethering users are slowing down your network, complain to AT&T. They've already taken steps to mitigate this by sending out warnings.

    FWIW, jailbreaking will probably decline with the iOS 5 changes. Even keeping the jb means forgetting about backing up through cloud or using OTA updates. And what if Apple makes those updates mandatory? On webOS, you'd be reminded, but eventually it would download/install the update. I'm sure jb'ers will work around this, but the point is, it's not going to be as easy for the enduser and will scare away the more casual users.
    10-24-2011 10:08 AM
  23. robes1's Avatar
    If you bought the earlier version of Siri, Apple gave you an iTunes credit when they pulled it from the store.
    Excellent! Happy to hear that they handled it with the usual class and style! Not sure that it was enough to make everyone happy though. Guess you can't please everyone. Only a fool tries to.
    10-24-2011 10:08 AM
  24. robes1's Avatar
    You should direct any frustration or anger at Apple, not anyone else. If Siri doesn't work right, take it up with Apple. I understand you enjoy this feature. But Apple is aware of the jailbreak scene. They pay people enough to worry about this stuff.

    For example, if you're concerned all those mywi or free tethering users are slowing down your network, complain to AT&T. They've already taken steps to mitigate this by sending out warnings.

    FWIW, jailbreaking will probably decline with the iOS 5 changes. Even keeping the jb means forgetting about backing up through cloud or using OTA updates. And what if Apple makes those updates mandatory? On webOS, you'd be reminded, but eventually it would download/install the update. I'm sure jb'ers will work around this, but the point is, it's not going to be as easy for the enduser and will scare away the more casual users.
    Valid argument. I agree!
    10-24-2011 10:10 AM
  25. Massie's Avatar
    Excellent! Happy to hear that they handled it with the usual class and style! Not sure that it was enough to make everyone happy though. Guess you can't please everyone. Only a fool tries to.
    I'm really a pretty big Apple fan, but even I would hesitate to call that "class and style". I doubt people who used Siri every day are beaming about getting a 99 cent (or whatever the cost may have been) credit to their account at the expense of a service they relied on. And bear in mind, some of those people may have spent the same amount on their iPhone 4 just a month or two ago as you did on the 4S--yet they are shut out forever while newer devices get the service for no additional charge.

    At any rate, I'll respectfully bow out of the conversation now--since I don't use Siri and don't plan to even if it's made available on my device, I don't and won't have much personal experience to bring to the arguments for or against. I'll keep reading, though; it's an interesting topic!
    10-24-2011 10:18 AM
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