1. DoubleM's Avatar
    Apple wouldn't be stupid enough to leak the new iPhone themselves. This 4S was leaked because it's not the big news, nobody cares about a 4S.
    10-02-2011 05:10 PM
  2. Jellotime91's Avatar
    Yes, there will be an iPhone5 - will it be announced on Tuesday?? That is the great unknown. That thing on Cin-Bell could just be a placeholder they labeled "iPhone5" and will most likely be replaced with whatever the real thing is upon the announcement.
    Yep, could just be a placeholder.
    10-02-2011 05:10 PM
  3. BLiNK's Avatar
    tipb.com is full of crap on that iTunes story. No such thing was leaked from iTunes. Read "Update 2" at the bottom for the real scoop: iPhone 5 appears temporarily on Cincinnati Bell website (Updated) | TUAW - The Unofficial Apple Weblog
    interesting...

    Bottom Line: DON'T LOSE HOPE! THERE WILL BE AN iPhone 5!!
    i hope you are right!
    10-02-2011 05:11 PM
  4. redbeard's Avatar
    LMAO!!!! I couldn't agree with you more.

    And I'm being serious, it took them almost 2 years to pop in a different camera sensor and A5 chip? Seriously? And people consider this innovative or groundbreaking??
    Premium1 likes this.
    10-02-2011 06:27 PM
  5. Jellotime91's Avatar
    And I'm being serious, it took them almost 2 years to pop in a different camera sensor and A5 chip? Seriously? And people consider this innovative or groundbreaking??
    But if it looks different and has the same internal changes you'd think it's better? I really don't understand that way of thinking.
    10-02-2011 06:31 PM
  6. Fausty82's Avatar
    And I'm being serious, it took them almost 2 years to pop in a different camera sensor and A5 chip? Seriously? And people consider this innovative or groundbreaking??
    So what does it take for you (not "you" personally, but the average iPhone user) to swap platforms? I'm serious when I ask that. I understand the frustration, but lots of people are voicing their anger/frustration with what they perceive to be lack of innovation - but they keep buying iPhones.

    So, again, I ask, what would make you leave the iOS platform for Android, or Windows Phone?
    10-02-2011 06:36 PM
  7. Jellotime91's Avatar
    So what does it take for you (not "you" personally, but the average iPhone user) to swap platforms? I'm serious when I ask that. I understand the frustration, but lots of people are voicing their anger/frustration with what they perceive to be lack of innovation - but they keep buying iPhones.

    So, again, I ask, what would make you leave the iOS platform for Android, or Windows Phone?
    Who are you, Eric Schmidt? Haha.. :P
    10-02-2011 06:43 PM
  8. redbeard's Avatar
    1. Apple is not RIM. They made huge advances in iOS 5 this year, and iOS 4 was already the most stable and intuitive OS out there (and, with the iPod touch and iPad, the most successful mobile OS). They are not getting complacent. Apple could re-release the iPhone 4 exactly as-is, and make it available in just 2 new colours. You can bet your life's savings that there would be line ups as far as the eye can see.
    I agree it's the most fluid and all that, but for how long? I just don't see a company that thinks it can rest on past success forever staying #1 forever. I also find it funny that the one thing that would confuse the masses into buying a new phone (a new design) is the thing they aren't doing. It's only us tech geeks on websites like these that know what an A5 chip is, or 1 gig of ram. When Sally soccer mom walks into an Apple store to buy the new iPhone and she can't tell it apart from her old one, why would she upgrade?

    I know for sure I will not be lining up to buy this "4S", and I know many other people who won't be either, look across all the Apple blogs, you'll see a vast majority is not happy at all and will not burn an upgrade on this overdue dud. Now when the iPhone 4 came out I couldn't wait to buy it, neither could millions of people, I don't see anywhere near that level of excitement this time, especially with more and more people buying Android phones. Just because something happened in the past doesn't ensure it will again in the future, especially when you take out the reasons for that success.

    2. Nowhere. You will find it very easy to be first in line wherever you choose for the next Android hero. People don't have the time or the money to line up again and again every 3 months.
    Good, I won't have to wait As a consumer, long lines and big sales mean squat.

    3. Apple actually takes time to develop their products. Each new device is a real commitment for Apple. And, in what world is 16 months 2 years? It's 1.3 years... Talk about rounding up!
    Well I've read Apple starts working on new phones 24 months before they come out, so that would mean it took them 2 years to come up with a spec bump.

    Personally if there isn't a redesigned iPhone, my thought is that there was, but they couldn't reach the demand or there was manufacturing issues. There is always the possibility though that Apple is being so secretive that even the people leaking these rumours truly believe there is only a 4S, meanwhile Apple's higher-ups are plotting for the iPhone 5 release.
    I really hope so, with what happened last year with Gizmodo you'd think Apple would go nuts this time with secrecy and mis-information, that's what I expected them to do, so I wouldn't be all that surprised if they leaked BS to throw everyone off. It's too easy, all they have to do is leak info on this 4S and the internet does the rest, while keeping the true new iPhone under wraps. If the iPhone 4 hadn't been lost in that bar we wouldn't have known what it looked like until Steve Jobs pulled it out of his pocket. So I don't see why people think it's impossible for it to happen. And like I've said in the past, if other companies that are far less skilled and valuable than Apple can pump out dozens of phones every year, Apple can certainly build one. A 4S would mean what? They laid off the entire hardware division?
    Last edited by redbeard; 10-02-2011 at 07:14 PM.
    Premium1 likes this.
    10-02-2011 06:44 PM
  9. redbeard's Avatar
    A year from today Apple will be weeks away from reporting over $150 billion in revenue. RIM will be lucky to hold steady at $20 billion.
    Or it could be less because not nearly as many people want a another iPhone 4 when the competition has left Apple in the dust. People need to also realize that whatever Apple puts out this month will have to compete until at least this time next year, and there are phones coming out that are going to be absolute beasts, and will make this "4S" look like a toy. Most of my friends and family have already switched over to Android or Windows phones, and not one of them wants another iPhone unless they substantially upgrade with things like a bigger screen.

    Apple has other things to fall back on, my bringing up RIM had nothing to do with revenue, and everything to do with phones. Nobody wants a new Blackberry because they got complacent, stopped innovating, and let Apple take over. I hope Apple doesn't make that same mistake. And eventually, that will eat into profits.

    Any lines for the Prime will be short and short lived. It's expected to be announced Oct. 11th, right? Will it hit the shelves right away? The next iPhone is expected to hit the shelves sometime between Oct. 14-25. Do you seriously believe the lines for the Prime will come anywhere close to lines for the 5th gen iPhone?
    Nor will their be lines for the Next Ferrari supercar, yet I'll take that over a Toyota Corolla.

    Let's come back to this post in 3 weeks.

    You have to realize that corporate profits and long lines do squat for the consumer, Apple could start selling Apple branded dog turds and I swear people would think it somehow benefits them as long as they make a profit.

    Apple could sell 50 billion 4S's, what does that do for you or me? I don't own Apple stock, all I care about is a new and improved phone.
    Last edited by redbeard; 10-02-2011 at 07:34 PM.
    10-02-2011 07:01 PM
  10. Fausty82's Avatar
    Who are you, Eric Schmidt? Haha.. :P
    I am dead serious. There's a lot of "this is BS" and "I can't believe THAT's all they did in 16 months" talk... but yet no one is leaving the iOS fold.

    So again, I ask "what will it take?".
    10-02-2011 07:02 PM
  11. redbeard's Avatar
    You realize all of us here are a minority right? The normal consumer doesn't care. They just know it's the newest and best from Apple. Apple is well aware of this. The 4S will be the best selling phone for the unforeseeable future. Name one iPhone that hasn't been. Can't do it...

    Exactly, the normal consumer doesn't care about dual core chips and gigs of ram, nor do they know what it is, all they see is the external shell of the phone. So to me I think they'd sell more by changing the design to the masses than anything else.

    When Apple advertises it, all the normal consumer will think is that "it looks the same".

    Again, big sales don't benefit me, they don't give me the features I want, all I see is a big giant DUD. And I'm not happy at all about it, I wanted Apple to lay waste to the competition, if all they release is this 4S on Tuesday, Samsung and HTC will be throwing a party.

    Just look at the reaction across the web, even the most die hard Apple fanboys are pissed, when the iPhone 4 was announced it was the opposite. The fanboys are mad, and Sally soccer mom can't tell the iPhone 4 and 4S apart, sounds like a pretty bad business decision. I could care less about brand loyalty, I want the best product for my money, since 07 Apple has had it, I'm afraid this spec bump after 16 months with the insane competition now means my money is going elsewhere. I just may wait until the the first phone comes out with the Kal El processor and whoever matches that up with a big HD screen.
    Edharv1 and DoubleM like this.
    10-02-2011 07:13 PM
  12. redbeard's Avatar
    But if it looks different and has the same internal changes you'd think it's better? I really don't understand that way of thinking.
    No, I don't really care that much about looks, it's that a bigger screen would have necessitated a different design, to me, hardware is screen plus guts. I think the guts needed to improve, and that screen size did too. And moving away from the iPhone 4's faulty antenna design would be wise too. So instead they keep the same screen size, and the same exact design so nobody knows it's new, and and the same antenna design? They could have come out with this when the Verizon phone came out to give it a boost, this is pathetic after 16 months, actually it's worse than pathetic, I just can't think of a better word right now.
    Premium1 and Edharv1 like this.
    10-02-2011 07:22 PM
  13. redbeard's Avatar
    So what does it take for you (not "you" personally, but the average iPhone user) to swap platforms? I'm serious when I ask that. I understand the frustration, but lots of people are voicing their anger/frustration with what they perceive to be lack of innovation - but they keep buying iPhones.

    So, again, I ask, what would make you leave the iOS platform for Android, or Windows Phone?
    Well will they keep buying iPhones year after year if Apple doesn't change them? Wasn't Blackberry in that boat once?

    I know exactly what would make me go to Android, screen size plus retina quality resolution on their top devices. After owning an iPhone 4, everytime I check out an Android phone with their pixelated screens I realize I could never own one until they match Apple's pixel density. And that day is coming soon as many Android phones are getting 1280x720 screens.

    There's other small things I need/want like a notification light and louder speakers, since Apple won't give me what I need I'll go to whomever does, and keep my iP4 for all my music and apps, and see if Apple can bring me back with the iPhone 6. I still plan on getting an iPad 3 if it has the retina screen, and an Apple TV in a couple weeks.
    Premium1 and Edharv1 like this.
    10-02-2011 07:31 PM
  14. BLiNK's Avatar
    So what does it take for you (not "you" personally, but the average iPhone user) to swap platforms? I'm serious when I ask that. I understand the frustration, but lots of people are voicing their anger/frustration with what they perceive to be lack of innovation - but they keep buying iPhones.

    So, again, I ask, what would make you leave the iOS platform for Android, or Windows Phone?
    you bring up some very valid points. this reminds me of what was happening on the eve of the iP4 release. hopefully after Tuesday things will go back to normal, not only here but other places as well

    people "say" they will move onto another platform but i highly doubt they will. if they do great, don't let the door hit you on the way out
    10-02-2011 07:43 PM
  15. Edharv1's Avatar
    It doesn't run voice assistant, and I imagine the new camera will also make people want to upgrade. My sister for example swore she wouldn't upgrade last year, but she ended up upgrading because of the camera.
    I have the Siri app on my iPhone, i'm interested to see how it will be that much different.
    Premium1 likes this.
    10-02-2011 08:38 PM
  16. phreddyl's Avatar
    So what does it take for you (not "you" personally, but the average iPhone user) to swap platforms? I'm serious when I ask that. I understand the frustration, but lots of people are voicing their anger/frustration with what they perceive to be lack of innovation - but they keep buying iPhones.

    So, again, I ask, what would make you leave the iOS platform for Android, or Windows Phone?
    I won't leave. In the last 7 years I have from windows to blackberry to android and now iOS. I love the iPhone for it's operating system more then anything. No battery pulls, no freezing, no crazy battery drain. It just works. Would I like them to change the design up a bit. Sure but again the new iOS will make it feel and act like a new phone.
    10-02-2011 09:24 PM
  17. DrewBear's Avatar
    The big question now is, will Apple become the next RIM? "Just good enough" doesn't cut it in this market.

    Where do the lines start for the Nexus Prime?
    A year from today Apple will be weeks away from reporting over $150 billion in revenue. RIM will be lucky to hold steady at $20 billion.

    Any lines for the Prime will be short and short lived. It's expected to be announced Oct. 11th, right? Will it hit the shelves right away? The next iPhone is expected to hit the shelves sometime between Oct. 14-25. Do you seriously believe the lines for the Prime will come anywhere close to lines for the 5th gen iPhone?

    Let's come back to this post in 3 weeks.
    Or it could be less because not nearly as many people want a another iPhone 4 when the competition has left Apple in the dust. People need to also realize that whatever Apple puts out this month will have to compete until at least this time next year, and there are phones coming out that are going to be absolute beasts, and will make this "4S" look like a toy...
    There are a number of Android "beasts" that have been available the past few months, yet average consumers continue to buy many millions of the old iPhone 4. You can argue that the SGS2 has left the iP4 in the dust, but it's clear that consumers don't agree with you. As far as actual build quality goes, hand someone who's never seen either phone a SGS2 and a iPhone 4 and ask them which feels like a toy.

    Apple has other things to fall back on, my bringing up RIM had nothing to do with revenue, and everything to do with phones. Nobody wants a new Blackberry because they got complacent, stopped innovating, and let Apple take over. I hope Apple doesn't make that same mistake. And eventually, that will eat into profits.
    I think we're mostly saying the same thing. RIM got complacent and severely underestimated the significance of the iPhone. (search "RIM CEO iPhone and read all the stupid things they said in 2007) But that didn't translate into them selling fewer phones. They continued to sell more and more BBs, but they just got cheaper. That's what slowed down their revenue ($ sales) growth.

    That is not what is happening with Apple's iPhone. Every year Apple sells twice as many iPhones as the previous year. But the average price of the iPhone is holding steady at ~$600. That is nothing like what happened with RIM & Blackberries.

    Nor will their be lines for the Next Ferrari supercar, yet I'll take that over a Toyota Corolla.
    You're saying that the SGS2 and Nexus Prime are Ferraris while the next iPhone is a Corolla? I disagree. I think 99 of 100 people would disagree with your characterization.

    Apple could sell 50 billion 4S's, what does that do for you or me? I don't own Apple stock, all I care about is a new and improved phone.
    You're right. Consumers don't care what iPhone sales does for Apple or their shareholders. They care about the same thing you do: a great product. The point is that many millions of people will consider the new iPhone a huge improvement that is worth buying.

    I keep repeating that Apple continues to sell old iPhone 4 & 3GS at the rate of 6-7 million each month. I'm not trying to point out how well Apple is doing as a business. I'm pointing out that consumers TODAY still consider the iPhone a great product that is worth buying in numbers that the top 10 Android phones can't even match cumulatively.

    Clearly what you demand from the next iPhone is not what the average consumer demands. You've already labeled the A5, RAM & camera upgrades as "incremental". In your opinion iOS "is still the same as it was in 2007". The only thing that might possibly make you happy is if the next iPhone comes with a larger screen, better antenna & new design.

    I personally would be very happy to see all of those come true. But I and millions of others will also be happy to buy the next iPhone if it came packaged with the same screen, antenna and design. It will be the best iPhone yet. You and your friends will buy something else. There's nothing wrong with that.
    10-03-2011 01:46 AM
  18. DannyMichel's Avatar
    There are a number of Android "beasts" that have been available the past few months, yet average consumers continue to buy many millions of the old iPhone 4. You can argue that the SGS2 has left the iP4 in the dust, but it's clear that consumers don't agree with you. As far as actual build quality goes, hand someone who's never seen either phone a SGS2 and a iPhone 4 and ask them which feels like a toy.
    I TOTALLY agree. I Bring up the same point every now and then. While I prefer iOS, if someone never heard of either phone and tried a few of these android phones up against an iPhone, they'd think the iPhone was laughable in comparison


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    10-03-2011 02:36 AM
  19. Jellotime91's Avatar
    I TOTALLY agree. I Bring up the same point every now and then. While I prefer iOS, if someone never heard of either phone and tried a few of these android phones up against an iPhone, they'd think the iPhone was laughable in comparison


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I think it's safe to say he was trying to make the opposite point... Saying that the android phones mostly feel cheap and plasticky, while the iPhone 4 has a very high build quality and a good weight to it.
    10-03-2011 03:01 AM
  20. DrewBear's Avatar
    I TOTALLY agree. I Bring up the same point every now and then. While I prefer iOS, if someone never heard of either phone and tried a few of these android phones up against an iPhone, they'd think the iPhone was laughable in comparison.
    LOL. Touch. I left myself wide open for that one.

    But we were talking specifically about the SGS2. Engadget is not a pro-Apple site and here's what they said about the S2. Of course they didn't even mention the glass and metal iPhone 4.
    ...in spite of the generally reassuring build quality, the Galaxy S II is still made out of plastic rather than something more robust like HTC or Nokia's all-aluminum cases.
    Design-wise, no one tops Apple. The Nokia N9 looks brilliant and the latest Blackberries are excellent in build quality. Still, I wouldn't bet against the next iPhone's design or build quality.
    10-03-2011 03:08 AM
  21. melwan's Avatar
    I TOTALLY agree. I Bring up the same point every now and then. While I prefer iOS, if someone never heard of either phone and tried a few of these android phones up against an iPhone, they'd think the iPhone was laughable in comparison


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Define "someone".

    If it's a tech junkie who loves to tinker with the phone all day long, then yes. But from experience (as a person who interacts directly with consumers in the mobile industry), the average person out there is intimidated by Android.

    Heck, even the black screen with all the settings looks scary enough to some. They usually come asking for the free navigation Google offers (they usually heard it from a geeky friend), but once they try to "operate" that free navigation, they ask to see something else. The majority ends up picking an iPhone and spending $60 on Navigon. Again, this is my personal observation for a little over 1 year now.

    Yes, it's free navigation, but something is not "fulfilling" their needs.
    Jellotime91 and DrewBear like this.
    10-03-2011 03:30 AM
  22. Jellotime91's Avatar
    Define "someone".

    If it's a tech junkie who loves to tinker with the phone all day long, then yes. But from experience (as a person who interacts directly with consumers in the mobile industry), the average person out there is intimidated by Android.

    Heck, even the black screen with all the settings looks scary enough to some. They usually come asking for the free navigation Google offers (they usually heard it from a geeky friend), but once they try to "operate" that free navigation, they ask to see something else. The majority ends up picking an iPhone and spending $60 on Navigon. Again, this is my personal observation for a little over 1 year now.

    Yes, it's free navigation, but something is not "fulfilling" their needs.
    +1..

    The greatest thing about iOS as a consumer product is that it provides a layered experience. I know several people who have iPhones that had no idea they had the multitasking tray, and I'm sure the same thing will happen with the notification center. It can be a super-simple experience for those who want it, and a more advanced one for those in-the-know.
    DrewBear likes this.
    10-03-2011 04:52 AM
  23. Jeremy's Avatar
    Exactly, the normal consumer doesn't care about dual core chips and gigs of ram, nor do they know what it is, all they see is the external shell of the phone. So to me I think they'd sell more by changing the design to the masses than anything else.

    When Apple advertises it, all the normal consumer will think is that "it looks the same".

    Again, big sales don't benefit me, they don't give me the features I want, all I see is a big giant DUD. And I'm not happy at all about it, I wanted Apple to lay waste to the competition, if all they release is this 4S on Tuesday, Samsung and HTC will be throwing a party.

    Just look at the reaction across the web, even the most die hard Apple fanboys are pissed, when the iPhone 4 was announced it was the opposite. The fanboys are mad, and Sally soccer mom can't tell the iPhone 4 and 4S apart, sounds like a pretty bad business decision. I could care less about brand loyalty, I want the best product for my money, since 07 Apple has had it, I'm afraid this spec bump after 16 months with the insane competition now means my money is going elsewhere. I just may wait until the the first phone comes out with the Kal El processor and whoever matches that up with a big HD screen.
    It does not matter... Those same "fanboys" still bought the 3GS after they already had no? All there is to say. And if you think HTC and Samsung will be throwing a party regardless of what Apple puts out, you are insane. (no offense)
    redbeard likes this.
    10-03-2011 09:24 AM
  24. hoosieriphone's Avatar
    2 iPhones will be announced. 4s and 5. They are not going to put Tim Cook up on stage just to announce an upgraded iPhone 4. Unless... they bring Steve onto the stage and let him do his " one last thing " and pull out the iPhone 5. The place would go crazy.
    redbeard likes this.
    10-03-2011 10:39 AM
  25. DrewBear's Avatar
    While I prefer iOS, if someone never heard of either phone and tried a few of these android phones up against an iPhone, they'd think the iPhone was laughable in comparison.
    Define "someone".

    If it's a tech junkie who loves to tinker with the phone all day long, then yes. But from experience (as a person who interacts directly with consumers in the mobile industry), the average person out there is intimidated by Android.

    Heck, even the black screen with all the settings looks scary enough to some. They usually come asking for the free navigation Google offers (they usually heard it from a geeky friend), but once they try to "operate" that free navigation, they ask to see something else. The majority ends up picking an iPhone and spending $60 on Navigon. Again, this is my personal observation for a little over 1 year now.

    Yes, it's free navigation, but something is not "fulfilling" their needs.
    The greatest thing about iOS as a consumer product is that it provides a layered experience. I know several people who have iPhones that had no idea they had the multitasking tray, and I'm sure the same thing will happen with the notification center. It can be a super-simple experience for those who want it, and a more advanced one for those in-the-know.
    Good points, melwan & Jello.

    RE: GPS. I've heard good things about the MotionX app. You can pay $3 for 30 days of access or $20/year. Sounds like a great deal for folks who only sporadically have need for turn-by-turn GPS access.
    10-03-2011 12:03 PM
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