1. david.e.crocker@gmail.com's Avatar
    I've already addressed this. The current manufacturing process for the iPhone 4 is very expensive, and like I said, Apple had to pay Foxconn to bring in thousands of new prototyping machines. I would imagine they are going to re-purpose these machines to produce their new high-end phone, not keep them in use to manufacture their now budget-focused iPhone 4.

    Why not just keep the 3GS 16GB as their budget model last year? In case you've forgotten there never was an 8GB 3GS until the iPhone 4 came out and it was used as the $99 phone. They do this because there needs to be differentiation between the budget device and the $199 device. 16GB is a lot for many people, absolutely enough space for most people. Apple doesn't want everyone to get along perfectly fine with the budget phone, they want people to buy the $199 or $299 device, obviously.
    Jello, I assume you know that Apple makes TEN versions of a prototype phone, then whittles that selection down to three, then one, right? They are to be what they refer to as 'pixel perfect', so no rough edges, but final versions - perfect in execution. Their largest expense is in design first, the initial execution.

    That you state they have a large expense in manufacturing the iPhone 4 is somewhat misleading....the actual initial design phase is what is expensive, not the final execution of the product.

    Do your homework.
    Premium1 likes this.
    08-30-2011 08:40 AM
  2. david.e.crocker@gmail.com's Avatar
    Dude... The lower-end model is not meant to be an upgrade to the current high-end. It's meant to be virtually the same thing. The only people who will upgrade to the new low-end model are maybe people who bought a 3GS last year or the year before.
    Incorrect. Again, do your homework.

    The main reason Apple decided to keep the lower end models was to increase the userbase....bring people into the ecosystem. Some people won't buy an iPhone due to the price...$199 is on the upper end of pricing in the US. Offering a $49-$99 pricepoint simply means that bringing people into the Apple ecosystem has offerings they will want.

    This also leads back into my 'three phone' scenario. Currently, Android has 'free to stupendous' products. Apple has 'last years model and this years model', which simply cannot compete.

    I am not saying I am right, but I believe this is the time that Apple has finally decided to increase their selection to more than one new style of phone; to accommodate the market.

    Apple has never (in the past ten years) taken a serious misstep. They know they need to answer this call because the market demands it. What they do is either wait patiently and deliver the ultimate device or create an entirely new market segment.

    Look back historically. You'll find that to be true.

    The fact that I am not using an iPhone provides me clearer insight and no bias. It excites me to see the opportunity that Apple has right now and watch them execute on a level or brilliance that few other companies can match.

    They are an excellent business model and one I reference often when I train my new hires.
    08-30-2011 08:48 AM
  3. david.e.crocker@gmail.com's Avatar
    Here's the thing...if you want to approach this logically but still base it on rumor, everything points to 2 phones AT MOST, not three. All the releases, silly little news breaks, insider info, etc etc etc...it all points at a 4S and an iPhone 5.

    If we approach it with your logic, based on the fact that "you can't prove that there WONT be three, so don't close off that possibility!", then we could add really ANYTHING to the pot and still stick with your approach...what if there are 800 different iPhones, and 400 of them are made of solid gold! You can't prove me wrong here...but it's no less absurd.

    Now I'm not saying that the idea of 3 iPhones is that far fetched, but logically speaking, everything points at two iPhones, not three...and saying that, I'm confident there will not be 3 either.
    Yes, that is absurd. The claim is that there will be three phones, not 800 with 400 that are solid gold.

    Here's my problem with what you said....you took it to an extreme.

    I didn't.

    Keep it relevant and on-topic, even if you don't like it, because it keeps this thread open and more importantly, respectful. I am not bashing anyone, simply stating my viewpoint. It's totally okay to differ.

    I am merely stating that the business model for offering three products has never been stronger, the market seems to require multiple offerings to remain competitive and Apple doesn't make many missteps....so to me, Apple needs this to remain the industry leader.

    Those who want, need or prefer a larger screened device will avoid Apple, and not just the device, but ultimately the ecosystem. You need to expand your thinking and look at the bigger picture. I'm not stating three phones because I think three phones sounds cool...I recognize marketshare loss and trending and analysis enough to know that the market requires more than two models now. Two years ago that market standard didn't exist.

    Apple will continue to lose marketshare to Android until they answer that call.

    Their ecosystem is their bread and butter. iCloud will create all sorts of ecosystem growth and without a device to support that (the larger screened iPhone) no one will enter that ecosystem.

    Think big picture, my friend. It's about the end user experience, something Steve Jobs preaches...his mantra is all about the customer experience.
    Last edited by AliensWanted; 08-30-2011 at 09:02 AM.
    Premium1 likes this.
    08-30-2011 08:57 AM
  4. Premium1's Avatar
    Yes, that is absurd. The claim is that there will be three phones, not 800 with 400 that are solid gold.

    Here's my problem with what you said....you took it to an extreme.

    I didn't.

    Keep it relevant and on-topic, even if you don't like it, because it keeps this thread open and more importantly, respectful. I am not bashing anyone, simply stating my viewpoint. It's totally okay to differ.

    I am merely stating that the business model for offering three products has never been stronger, the market seems to require multiple offerings to remain competitive and Apple doesn't make many missteps....so to me, Apple needs this to remain the industry leader.

    Those who want, need or prefer a larger screened
    device will avoid Apple, and not just the device, but ultimately the ecosystem. You need to expand your thinking and look at the bigger picture. I'm not stating three phones because I think three phones sounds cool...I recognize marketshare loss and trending and analysis enough to know that the market requires more than two models now. Two years ago that market standard didn't exist.

    Apple will continue to lose marketshare to Android until they answer that call.

    Their ecosystem is their bread and butter. iCloud will create all sorts of ecosystem growth and without a device to support that (the larger screened iPhone) no one will enter that ecosystem.

    Think big picture, my friend. It's about the end user experience, something Steve Jobs preaches...his mantra is all about the customer experience.
    I agree in the past Apple only needed one iPhone but times are changing and Apple needs to change also. I'm sure everyone will get up in arms but check out how android is exploding and gaining market share everywhere and you will realize why Apple may make more than a high end and budget model.
    08-30-2011 09:55 AM
  5. Jellotime91's Avatar
    Jello, I assume you know that Apple makes TEN versions of a prototype phone, then whittles that selection down to three, then one, right? They are to be what they refer to as 'pixel perfect', so no rough edges, but final versions - perfect in execution. Their largest expense is in design first, the initial execution.

    That you state they have a large expense in manufacturing the iPhone 4 is somewhat misleading....the actual initial design phase is what is expensive, not the final execution of the product.

    Do your homework.
    I really can't argue with you because you can not hold a concept.

    The prototyping machines were not used for prototyping the iPhone 4, they were used for the actual manufacturing of the iPhone 4 (and still are). Clearly you are the one who needs to do your homework.

    I'm not interested in responding to you anymore.

    Also, 'simply can not compete', and yet it does compete, very strongly might I add. Apple has a higher market share than any one manufacturer.
    08-30-2011 11:58 AM
  6. DreamOutLoud65's Avatar
    what are the rumors on whether the iphone5 will be 4G or LTE? Is it more likely to be 3G?
    08-30-2011 01:28 PM
  7. Premium1's Avatar
    what are the rumors on whether the iphone5 will be 4G or LTE? Is it more likely to be 3G?
    Probably 3g only although some are saying because they installed lte in apple stores that it will have it. Apple wants to be all about thin and good battery life and lte would make it thicker and takes a toll on battery.
    08-30-2011 02:05 PM
  8. david.e.crocker@gmail.com's Avatar
    I really can't argue with you because you can not hold a concept.

    The prototyping machines were not used for prototyping the iPhone 4, they were used for the actual manufacturing of the iPhone 4 (and still are). Clearly you are the one who needs to do your homework.

    I'm not interested in responding to you anymore.

    Also, 'simply can not compete', and yet it does compete, very strongly might I add. Apple has a higher market share than any one manufacturer.
    Um, okay.

    Marketshare per manufacturer is an irrelevant statistic to elevate the iPhone so you feel better. Android is beating the CRAP out of Apple, as an OS, period. Do you not read? Stop being a fanboi and see it for what it is. I am not trying to be negative. I am stating facts.

    I am not bashing Apple, either, I hope you see that. I am stating that the time to step up is now.

    Where did you get your facts from regarding the prototypes?
    08-30-2011 11:43 PM
  9. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    Um, okay.

    Marketshare per manufacturer is an irrelevant statistic to elevate the iPhone so you feel better. Android is beating the CRAP out of Apple, as an OS, period. Do you not read? Stop being a fanboi and see it for what it is. I am not trying to be negative. I am stating facts.

    I am not bashing Apple, either, I hope you see that. I am stating that the time to step up is now.

    Where did you get your facts from regarding the prototypes?
    So you base your argument that Android is "beating the crap" out of Apple because they have slapped their OS on a hundred thousand different phones across the market, giving them the also quite irrelevant statistic of having the most phones on the market? Are you kidding?

    I mean that's really the only real argument you could be making because you said you were "stating facts", and arguing that the OS is better than iOS would be purely...PURELY...an opinionated stance, and nothing reflective of a "fact".

    I use an Android based phone nearly every day...and i wouldn't have it over even an iPhone 3GS. The operating system is clunky, clumsy and unpolished...it has a whole bunch of WOW factor on the home screen with widgets and a big clock, but there's nothing there that draws me away from my clean and polished iOS iPhone 4...NOTHING.

    So what is better? The camera certainly isn't, my iPhone's camera takes an infinitely better quality picture. You can keep SD card memory, partitioning stuff on a card that can fail (and mine has) is not my forte. Larger screen? lol...still doesn't hold a candle to the retina displays quality, and destroys the battery (its sad how much less battery time the android gets, literally staggeringly less, even with tweaks to extend battery life). Android app store? LMFAO...right, it reminds me of the old Windows mobile OS store or the Sprint music, store, lol.

    I could keep going, but i won't...because honestly, its an opinion of mine (did you see that? OPINION) that the iPhone is the better phone. And that leads me back to your post about Android beating the crap out of Apple right now...is that your opinion? If so, that's fine with me...we all have preference. But don't come in here pretending its fact...
    08-31-2011 07:01 AM
  10. Jellotime91's Avatar
    AliensWanted
    If you want to talk about OS market share, you need to consider the fact that iPod touches are not counted in these smartphone OS marketshare charts. There are around 50 million iPod touches out there, capable of using all the same apps as the iPhone. That's what matters to developers. Not to mention more than 20 million iPads out there, ready to use these apps as well. I work in this industry, I work with developers every day, and I know what I'm talking about. The money is in iOS and most developers are not even considering making Android their main platform. Why do you think most Android port apps suck? Why is the overall quality of Android apps worse? There is no money in making Android apps.
    08-31-2011 08:34 AM
  11. Premium1's Avatar
    AliensWanted
    If you want to talk about OS market share, you need to consider the fact that iPod touches are not counted in these smartphone OS marketshare charts. There are around 50 million iPod touches out there, capable of using all the same apps as the iPhone. That's what matters to developers. Not to mention more than 20 million iPads out there, ready to use these apps as well. I work in this industry, I work with developers every day, and I know what I'm talking about. The money is in iOS and most developers are not even considering making Android their main platform. Why do you think most Android port apps suck? Why is the overall quality of Android apps worse? There is no money in making Android apps.
    I agree there is alot of ipods and ipads but no money in android? There is plenty of money in android and most of the main apps work just as well as the IOS counter parts although I will agree that many of the apps in android suck. But you can't honestly say there is no money to be made in android just because there are some bad apps.
    08-31-2011 09:28 AM
  12. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    I agree there is alot of ipods and ipads but no money in android? There is plenty of money in android and most of the main apps work just as well as the IOS counter parts although I will agree that many of the apps in android suck. But you can't honestly say there is no money to be made in android just because there are some bad apps.
    Oh there's plenty of money to be made in the android market, just as there is plenty of money to be made with the Windows phone market (if Microsoft actually sticks to something legitimately this time with these handsets)...but the cash cow is Apple, no question about it.

    The difference between a big, popular, cross market app is not the performance, but the volume of user purchase...Angry Birds unquestionably runs the same on an Android based phone as it does on an iOS device, but more people are spending money on it using an iOS device, so when companies on the fence about cross marketing on multiple platforms, the automatic choice is iOS...every single time. Apple provides developers with more safe guards against copy cat developers, Apple provides better numbers (which equal better sales), they have a no non-sense way of submitting apps (as well as a well polished way)...and as far as I've read, an overwhelming majority of developers are happy with the way Apple handles their software.

    It's like everything else in the Apple world...further polish. It applies to everything in their lineup...from MacBooks to iPods, while the competition may have features that you won't get on Apple products, some people just prefer a more refined experience.

    It's like with cars...i have an M3, which quite honestly is nothing incredible as far as technology goes, its a well balanced car with a hell of an engine...then you have cars like the Nissan GTR, incredibly fast and chalk full of technology. In the market of cars, a new M3 and a GTR are in relatively similar markets...and while the Nissan offers me feature lists a mile long and proven performance in certain areas that rival cars 10 times as much money...i prefer the drive in the BMW...its feels more balanced...more refined, like an extra element of effort was put into it.

    The GTR is a fine car and all...the PERFECT car for some people in fact, but its not for me, in fact...its far from it for me. This speaks a mirrored tale about my preference for the iPhone (and most Apple products at that).
    08-31-2011 10:06 AM
  13. Premium1's Avatar
    Well angry birds is free on android because they use ads to get revenue. But like you said it is all a preference to what each individual will like or want.
    08-31-2011 10:10 AM
  14. Jellotime91's Avatar
    I agree there is alot of ipods and ipads but no money in android? There is plenty of money in android and most of the main apps work just as well as the IOS counter parts although I will agree that many of the apps in android suck. But you can't honestly say there is no money to be made in android just because there are some bad apps.
    Look at the numbers. The Android app store is growing insanely fast, but Apple still holds 82% of ALL PROFITS made in mobile applications!

    You have it backwards, it's not that there's no money because the apps suck, the apps suck because there's no money to be made. So companies don't put a lot of resources into Android development, because the return is very low.
    08-31-2011 09:48 PM
  15. david.e.crocker@gmail.com's Avatar
    So you base your argument that Android is "beating the crap" out of Apple because they have slapped their OS on a hundred thousand different phones across the market, giving them the also quite irrelevant statistic of having the most phones on the market? Are you kidding?

    I mean that's really the only real argument you could be making because you said you were "stating facts", and arguing that the OS is better than iOS would be purely...PURELY...an opinionated stance, and nothing reflective of a "fact".

    I use an Android based phone nearly every day...and i wouldn't have it over even an iPhone 3GS. The operating system is clunky, clumsy and unpolished...it has a whole bunch of WOW factor on the home screen with widgets and a big clock, but there's nothing there that draws me away from my clean and polished iOS iPhone 4...NOTHING.

    So what is better? The camera certainly isn't, my iPhone's camera takes an infinitely better quality picture. You can keep SD card memory, partitioning stuff on a card that can fail (and mine has) is not my forte. Larger screen? lol...still doesn't hold a candle to the retina displays quality, and destroys the battery (its sad how much less battery time the android gets, literally staggeringly less, even with tweaks to extend battery life). Android app store? LMFAO...right, it reminds me of the old Windows mobile OS store or the Sprint music, store, lol.

    I could keep going, but i won't...because honestly, its an opinion of mine (did you see that? OPINION) that the iPhone is the better phone. And that leads me back to your post about Android beating the crap out of Apple right now...is that your opinion? If so, that's fine with me...we all have preference. But don't come in here pretending its fact...
    Dude, you'd think I shot your dog or something. Chill.....

    I never said that Android was better, I said they are beating the crap out of Apple iPhone sales....and perhaps I should have clarified that.

    Sales.

    So the fact that anyone and their dog can use Android as an OS is still marketshare, even if it is a horrible phone.

    Just speaking to growth and marketshare, not quality.

    iOS is very elegant. I don't recall making any disparaging comments towards the OS itself. Please show me if I did and I will apologize.

    Not bashing.
    08-31-2011 09:52 PM
  16. Jellotime91's Avatar
    Dude, you'd think I shot your dog or something. Chill.....

    I never said that Android was better, I said they are beating the crap out of Apple iPhone sales....and perhaps I should have clarified that.

    Sales.

    So the fact that anyone and their dog can use Android as an OS is still marketshare, even if it is a horrible phone.

    Just speaking to growth and marketshare, not quality.

    iOS is very elegant. I don't recall making any disparaging comments towards the OS itself. Please show me if I did and I will apologize.

    Not bashing.
    More Android phones on the market doesn't negate the fact that Apple accounts for 82% of all sales profits when it comes to mobile apps, and OS market share charts don't count iPads and iPod touch, which are both capable of purchasing applications. iOS is still the best place to be for developers, and that's not going to change any time soon.
    08-31-2011 09:54 PM
  17. david.e.crocker@gmail.com's Avatar
    AliensWanted
    If you want to talk about OS market share, you need to consider the fact that iPod touches are not counted in these smartphone OS marketshare charts. There are around 50 million iPod touches out there, capable of using all the same apps as the iPhone. That's what matters to developers. Not to mention more than 20 million iPads out there, ready to use these apps as well. I work in this industry, I work with developers every day, and I know what I'm talking about. The money is in iOS and most developers are not even considering making Android their main platform. Why do you think most Android port apps suck? Why is the overall quality of Android apps worse? There is no money in making Android apps.
    Man, you guys are getting defensive....which is somewhat of an issue I have with any fanboy. I am simply discussing my viewpoints and not trying to start anything here, so please, relax.

    I never stated anything negative about the products, in fact, Apple makes the nicest and most well-built products out there. Please, show me where I made a negative comment.

    I haven't. I haven't attacked anyone directly.

    Just relax, grab a beer and chill.

    Apple's ecosystem is spectacular.

    Jello, I was discussing the iPhone not the iPod Touch or anything else, so please stay on topic.

    Thanks.
    Premium1 likes this.
    08-31-2011 09:55 PM
  18. david.e.crocker@gmail.com's Avatar
    Look at the numbers. The Android app store is growing insanely fast, but Apple still holds 82% of ALL PROFITS made in mobile applications!

    You have it backwards, it's not that there's no money because the apps suck, the apps suck because there's no money to be made. So companies don't put a lot of resources into Android development, because the return is very low.
    Actually, you are incorrect.

    There is one iPhone, with one set of rules...that's it. Android has no rules, has a ridiculous number of handsets and lots of incompatibilities.

    That's the problem. But there are a greater number of users.

    Google is reigning in the issue of fragmentation, and soon we will see less and less differentiation between handsets and more control over who has what version number. They realize that mistake.

    Apple did it right, but Android didn't do it wrong, just differently.
    08-31-2011 09:59 PM
  19. Premium1's Avatar
    More Android phones on the market doesn't negate the fact that Apple accounts for 82% of all sales profits when it comes to mobile apps, and OS market share charts don't count iPads and iPod touch, which are both capable of purchasing applications. iOS is still the best place to be for developers, and that's not going to change any time soon.
    That once again is because more apps are paid than free in IOS. Android apps rely more on ad revenue then pricing their apps that way.
    08-31-2011 10:01 PM
  20. Premium1's Avatar
    Man, you guys are getting defensive....which is somewhat of an issue I have with any fanboy. I am simply discussing my viewpoints and not trying to start anything here, so please, relax.

    I never stated anything negative about the products, in fact, Apple makes the nicest and most well-built products out there. Please, show me where I made a negative comment.

    I haven't. I haven't attacked anyone directly.

    Just relax, grab a beer and chill.

    Apple's ecosystem is spectacular.

    Jello, I was discussing the iPhone not the iPod Touch or anything else, so please stay on topic.

    Thanks.
    The guy looks like he is 15 he probably can't legally buy a beer yet=P
    08-31-2011 10:02 PM
  21. david.e.crocker@gmail.com's Avatar
    The guy looks like he is 15 he probably can't legally buy a beer yet=P
    Good point.

    Have a root beer, then. Just chill, man, no one is attacking you....that's what he needs to know. I am agnostic to an OS, whoever someone wants they should get.

    Not my worry.

    I simply am saying the Apple will release three new iPhones this/next month.
    Premium1 likes this.
    08-31-2011 10:09 PM
  22. Jellotime91's Avatar
    Oh yes let's have some personal insults. That really proves how mature you are over me.

    With all due respect, I am not 15, I could buy beer if I chose to, although I wouldn't. (Oh, and even if I were 15, that would not make my opinions any less valid than yours, and my ability or inability to buy alcohol holds no bearing on that either.)

    I actually have enough balls to put a picture of myself in my avatar, because I'm not afraid of what people will have to say about me.

    Now, with regards to these issues, I actually work in this industry. I lead development of several applications on multiple platforms. I am a UI/UX designer and have conceptualized and designed several mobile applications on iOS, Android, and WP7. I am willing to bet (and have proven) that I know far more than either of you about this subject.

    Can you guys please stop double posting as well? Thanks.
    riley9dy likes this.
    08-31-2011 10:49 PM
  23. david.e.crocker@gmail.com's Avatar
    Oh yes let's have some personal insults. That really proves how mature you are over me.

    With all due respect, I am not 15, I could buy beer if I chose to, although I wouldn't. (Oh, and even if I were 15, that would not make my opinions any less valid than yours, and my ability or inability to buy alcohol holds no bearing on that either.)

    I actually have enough balls to put a picture of myself in my avatar, because I'm not afraid of what people will have to say about me.

    Now, with regards to these issues, I actually work in this industry. I lead development of several applications on multiple platforms. I am a UI/UX designer and have conceptualized and designed several mobile applications on iOS, Android, and WP7. I am willing to bet (and have proven) that I know far more than either of you about this subject.

    Can you guys please stop double posting as well? Thanks.
    You have my picture, and my information, on my website that is listed here in this thread. No one was bashing you, but you aren't acting as mature as you probably could be, so there is that. Did I bash Apple? No. In fact, I gave high praise to Apple and to Steve Jobs. I think Apple is a great company.

    I restrained myself, you let loose a little, and defensively I might add.

    So take a pill, chill out and let it go. Hell, I didn't even start this thread, but I am the author it references.

    As for your credentials, that's great, but no one is comparing themselves except you.

    I thought you said you were done replying to me? Be true to your word. I have been since the beginning.

    If it matters to you, I was in the industry probably before you were born.
    08-31-2011 11:16 PM
  24. riley9dy's Avatar
    Man, you guys are getting defensive....which is somewhat of an issue I have with any fanboy. I am simply discussing my viewpoints and not trying to start anything here, so please, relax.

    I never stated anything negative about the products, in fact, Apple makes the nicest and most well-built products out there. Please, show me where I made a negative comment.

    I haven't. I haven't attacked anyone directly.

    Just relax, grab a beer and chill.

    Apple's ecosystem is spectacular.

    Jello, I was discussing the iPhone not the iPod Touch or anything else, so please stay on topic.

    Thanks.
    Ok I'm just gonna be quite honest, if you "have a problem with fanboys" then you obviously don't realize that you are on an iPhone forum.... So I'm gonna let you in on something, nearly everyone here is what you would consider "a fanboy" and if you have a problem with fanboys you probably shouldn't be posting here...
    08-31-2011 11:46 PM
  25. Jellotime91's Avatar
    Ok I'm just gonna be quite honest, if you "have a problem with fanboys" then you obviously don't realize that you are on an iPhone forum.... So I'm gonna let you in on something, nearly everyone here is what you would consider "a fanboy" and if you have a problem with fanboys you probably shouldn't be posting here...
    Seriously. Go check out the rest of the internet. I just read a comment on YouTube that said:
    "Android>Blackberry>Windows Phone7>Motorola Razr>Nokia Tracfone>dog ****>iPhone"

    And it was a top-rated comment.

    iPhone haters are more common in most online communities than iPhone owners, yet all they do is complain about iPhone "fanboys", constantly.
    09-01-2011 04:37 AM
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