1. Superjudge's Avatar
    No arguments here Again, no arguments here.
    It is not a cop-out. It is just business. Technology changes/improves and businesses must offer products that take advantage of that technology or risk going out of business. We, the customer, are always looking for something different and new. Want proof? Read the threads about what users expect from iOS 6 and the next iPhone. Apple or any other company is not going to be expected to develop the next big thing and not make it so users will not buy the next big thing. C'mon!



    Just Me, D
    (iPhone 4S)
    I'm just not seeing that a person with a 3GS or 4 will decide they won't upgrade for another year or so because they now have turn by turn on their phone. I know Apple needs some differentiation between phones which is easily accomplished by hardware and more subtly by software. Apple actively sells and promotes these devices even on their page promoting iOS 6 and only leave the details to the fine print. If the customer is always looking for "something different and new", a 3GS with turn by turn isn't going to do it for 'em.
    06-13-2012 05:50 PM
  2. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    Thank you to JustMe'D and the few other members who added to this conversation. It seems that this whole post is going to turn into an argument, which is not what I meant it to be. I was under the impression that these forums were a place for people with similar likes (in this case phones) to meet and discuss different questions, comments, concerns, ideas, disapointments, loves, hates, etc.

    It appears that I broke the unspoken rule of mentioning a different OS; so I am very sorry to all of those who I have offended in acknowledging the fact that there are other companies competing with Apple.
    You're very welcome and thank you. Also, continue to post your viewpoint. The last time I checked, America is still the land of the free. Take care and enjoy the rest of your evening.


    Just Me, D
    (iPhone 4S)
    06-13-2012 07:21 PM
  3. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    I'm just not seeing that a person with a 3GS or 4 will decide they won't upgrade for another year or so because they now have turn by turn on their phone.
    I agree.
    I know Apple needs some differentiation between phones which is easily accomplished by hardware and more subtly by software. Apple actively sells and promotes these devices even on their page promoting iOS 6 and only leave the details to the fine print.
    I agree with this as well.
    If the customer is always looking for "something different and new", a 3GS with turn by turn isn't going to do it for 'em.
    Now that's debatable. If you're coming from a non-smartphone and have never owned an iPhone then a 3GS with or without turn by turn navigation may be appealing. Still, I get what you're saying.




    Just Me, D
    (iPhone 4S)
    06-13-2012 07:26 PM
  4. dnheller#IM's Avatar
    Mapquest for iOS does turn-by-turn voice navigation on my 3GS. It is FREE at the App store. Would be nice if built-in Maps application did it, but Mapquest works fine for me
    06-13-2012 10:12 PM
  5. pappy53's Avatar
    Good lord buddy, I get it...I really do. So let's start here....take a deep breath. I am not attacking iOS, iPhones, Apple, Steve Jobs, you, or anyone else, so relax. No one is here grousing about anything; I even changed my initial post to not come across that way. I GET that it's all about business and money, and I GET that there's an app for that (again...initial post)...I am simply stating that not giving certain features to certain models that can absolutely handle them is a bit of a let down. Now, I did compare apple to android...which apparently made you a bit upset, and I apologize for that (I don't want to upset anyone). However, you have to realize and remember that in a competitive marketplace such as the market of phones, there will always be comparisons. Just becasue I compare apples to androids does NOT mean that I am talking poorly on you or apple, and does NOT mean I am bashing anyone or anything. So again...take a breath, relax, and try to comprehend that the rebuttal to a comment doesn't have to always be "quit crying and go buy an android then".
    That is his rebuttal if Android is mentioned. Thinks that his opinion is the only one that counts, and that IOS is the only OS on the market. If he is going to get his panties in a wad when another OS is mentioned, then maybe he needs to take a break from the forums.
    06-13-2012 10:34 PM
  6. jlamb0's Avatar
    As a former iPhone 3G owner who suffered through the first 6 months of iOS 4, I am sensitive to the idea of keeping features disabled if they'll significantly affect the user experience.

    That said, I agree with the OP. And I'd like to add that it is absolutely ridiculous that the iPhone 3GS will be getting iOS 6 (even in a feature-gutted form), but the first generation iPad is being left behind completely. What the hell is up with that?
    06-13-2012 11:43 PM
  7. icebox93's Avatar
    This is no different than what they did with siri. It was only for the 4S. So what they're clearly doing here is saying your 2 year contracts are up so here's an incentive to upgrade. But I'm not planning a quick upgrade when the new phone comes out though, I'll wait for the first jailbreak then upgrade assuming that the next phone is worth upgrading to.
    06-14-2012 02:34 AM
  8. Sandman619's Avatar
    The CPUs between the iPhone 4 & 4S are a generation apart. Beyond just the computational power, both wifi & cellular data are much faster on the 4S. These are all critical to Apple's new maps app, which will feature graphically intense 3D modeling as well as Siri integration for the turn-by-turn directions. Unfortunately, with the competition to make smartphones perform more traditional computer tasks, the growth in software resources is quickly growing beyond the ability of the older hardware. That 4 generations of iPhone will run iOS 6 is an achievement itself, even though a few of the 200 new features are not supported by older hardware. In comparison, 70% of Android devices are left running Gingerbread, circa iOS 3 old. Most iOS devices run are running iOS 5, the current version. Although neither platform is perfect, iOS devices receive more OS upgrades than Android devices, which typically won't qualify for OS upgrades during the first year of ownership

    Chees !
    Just_Me_D likes this.
    06-14-2012 08:12 AM
  9. triangleman's Avatar
    I don't understand why the app needs to be built-in. The Maps 1st party app has no more abilities or rights than navigation apps on the app store. In fact, there are apps on the app store such as Maps+ which are dedicated to improving the features of the 1st party app. Also those navigation apps were recently given even better backgrounding abilities so that they will continue to work long after you've started them and gone to other apps. There are plenty of free or $0.99 solutions for navigation that I just don't see what all the bother is. Personally, I moved away from using my phone for navigation because I couldn't navigate properly with all the phone calls I seem to get so I got a stand-alone TomTom.
    06-14-2012 08:14 AM
  10. Massie's Avatar
    I don't understand why the app needs to be built-in.
    The issue with it is that anytime you look up an address in Safari, clicking on the map result will bring you to the native app. So although there are 3rd party options, Apple makes it more difficult to use them as part of the normal workflow of the device. (3rd party telephony and mail apps have this same issue--when you click a Call button or email address in Safari, you're forced to use the built-in app.)
    06-14-2012 08:38 AM
  11. richard_rsp's Avatar
    I just think its gonna be funny when Google releases a 'Google Maps' App for iPhone that includes turn-by-turn that works on the 4 or 3GS. Since they are making a serious effort to separate themselves from Google Maps, I don't see Apple being happy if all the iPhone4/3GS users were still using Google Maps.

    Then, I wonder how long it will take Apple to 'update' the maps app to allow the turn-by-turn on the older devices?
    06-14-2012 08:39 AM
  12. jburke82's Avatar
    I don't understand why the app needs to be built-in. The Maps 1st party app has no more abilities or rights than navigation apps on the app store. In fact, there are apps on the app store such as Maps+ which are dedicated to improving the features of the 1st party app. Also those navigation apps were recently given even better backgrounding abilities so that they will continue to work long after you've started them and gone to other apps. There are plenty of free or $0.99 solutions for navigation that I just don't see what all the bother is. Personally, I moved away from using my phone for navigation because I couldn't navigate properly with all the phone calls I seem to get so I got a stand-alone TomTom.
    I agree with you, and I think maybe my original post didn't explain my point as well as I would have liked it to...?? I was simply saying that I believe the iphone 4 can handle (and should receive) the nav update for maps. That's it. For most on these forums, the answer is simple...either get an app, or jailbreak. There are a lot of iphone users who don't know anything about jailbreaking, and do not need to get involved with it.

    The point I was trying to make about my girlfriend shows this...she is not technologically savy, and she was a long time android user. She was always hesitant about an iphone because android has everything she needs. I have an iphone, and most of her friends have iphones (her brother is a huge apple fan boy and would constantly give her a hard time!), so she finally decided to give it a try and went with the iphone 4 (not everyone needs the advanced 4s). One of the first things she mentioned when she had the phone was that she didn't understand why navigation was a part of the native maps app on android, but not on the iphone (and some of the better nav apps charge a good amt or a fee). It made me think...she was right!

    Then iOS 6 was announced, and I told her (before realizing) that the new update will bring turn by turn to maps. This is in no way a bother or an inconvenience for me...I use an app when needed, and I don't have a problem with jailbreaking. But there are some out there who aren't as into their phones, and who feel that the feature should go to more than 1 (or 2) models of the phone and software.
    06-14-2012 08:51 AM
  13. jburke82's Avatar
    The issue with it is that anytime you look up an address in Safari, clicking on the map result will bring you to the native app. So although there are 3rd party options, Apple makes it more difficult to use them as part of the normal workflow of the device. (3rd party telephony and mail apps have this same issue--when you click a Call button or email address in Safari, you're forced to use the built-in app.)
    Another excellent point Massie, thank you.
    06-14-2012 08:52 AM
  14. jburke82's Avatar
    I just think its gonna be funny when Google releases a 'Google Maps' App for iPhone that includes turn-by-turn that works on the 4 or 3GS. Since they are making a serious effort to separate themselves from Google Maps, I don't see Apple being happy if all the iPhone4/3GS users were still using Google Maps.

    Then, I wonder how long it will take Apple to 'update' the maps app to allow the turn-by-turn on the older devices?
    I would download it in a heart beat if it somehow snuck into the marketplace! And this was actually a rumor going on when android first started getting noticed, and people questioned (even back then!) why android offers a native map app with free navigation...there were talks of bringing the google maps app with the nav to ios.
    06-14-2012 08:54 AM
  15. jburke82's Avatar
    The CPUs between the iPhone 4 & 4S are a generation apart. Beyond just the computational power, both wifi & cellular data are much faster on the 4S. These are all critical to Apple's new maps app, which will feature graphically intense 3D modeling as well as Siri integration for the turn-by-turn directions. Unfortunately, with the competition to make smartphones perform more traditional computer tasks, the growth in software resources is quickly growing beyond the ability of the older hardware. That 4 generations of iPhone will run iOS 6 is an achievement itself, even though a few of the 200 new features are not supported by older hardware. In comparison, 70% of Android devices are left running Gingerbread, circa iOS 3 old. Most iOS devices run are running iOS 5, the current version. Although neither platform is perfect, iOS devices receive more OS upgrades than Android devices, which typically won't qualify for OS upgrades during the first year of ownership

    Chees !
    I hear ya, and I agree. However, if a watered-down version of the os upgrade can be released, why not a watered-down version of the new map app? I have an iphone 4...I don't need Siri, and I don't need 3D modeling. Why can't navigation be released without the 3d modeling feature and siri?

    I guess another point of view many have (myself included sometimes), is that they would much rather use and trust a native application instead of a third party app from the app store...especially an app that is helping you NOT get lost! I have had many apps downloaded which would constantly freeze up, or fail in some way; I feel that having turn by turn in the native app is less likely to crap out on you in times of need.
    06-14-2012 08:58 AM
  16. jburke82's Avatar
    As a former iPhone 3G owner who suffered through the first 6 months of iOS 4, I am sensitive to the idea of keeping features disabled if they'll significantly affect the user experience.

    That said, I agree with the OP. And I'd like to add that it is absolutely ridiculous that the iPhone 3GS will be getting iOS 6 (even in a feature-gutted form), but the first generation iPad is being left behind completely. What the hell is up with that?
    jlamb0, I agree with you...I would never want a version of iOS or features that my phone couldn't handle. It wouldn't be worth it to load it with features that are just going to kill the phone, and this is an argument some have about the new upgrade. However, apps and jailbreaking (like everyone says to do) proves that the 4 CAN handle navigation. Maybe not the 3d modeling...that's fine, keep it...I don't need or want that. Same with siri. Turn by turn navigation, I feel, is a feature that should be (and could easily be) added to the 3gs and up.
    06-14-2012 09:02 AM
  17. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    The CPUs between the iPhone 4 & 4S are a generation apart. Beyond just the computational power, both wifi & cellular data are much faster on the 4S. These are all critical to Apple's new maps app, which will feature graphically intense 3D modeling as well as Siri integration for the turn-by-turn directions. Unfortunately, with the competition to make smartphones perform more traditional computer tasks, the growth in software resources is quickly growing beyond the ability of the older hardware. That 4 generations of iPhone will run iOS 6 is an achievement itself, even though a few of the 200 new features are not supported by older hardware. In comparison, 70% of Android devices are left running Gingerbread, circa iOS 3 old. Most iOS devices run are running iOS 5, the current version. Although neither platform is perfect, iOS devices receive more OS upgrades than Android devices, which typically won't qualify for OS upgrades during the first year of ownership

    Chees !
    Well stated, Sandman619.


    Just Me, D
    (iPhone 4S)
    06-14-2012 09:13 AM
  18. OrionAntares#CB's Avatar
    As a former iPhone 3G owner who suffered through the first 6 months of iOS 4, I am sensitive to the idea of keeping features disabled if they'll significantly affect the user experience.

    That said, I agree with the OP. And I'd like to add that it is absolutely ridiculous that the iPhone 3GS will be getting iOS 6 (even in a feature-gutted form), but the first generation iPad is being left behind completely. What the hell is up with that?
    Yea, that one confuses me a bit too. I don't think the raw power of the iPad 1 is much different from that of the iTouch 4 and yet the iTouch 4 is being updated. In fact the iPad has more raw power because it's chip runs at full speed instead of being underclocked like the iTouch 4.
    06-14-2012 09:44 AM
  19. Massie's Avatar
    The CPUs between the iPhone 4 & 4S are a generation apart. Beyond just the computational power, both wifi & cellular data are much faster on the 4S. These are all critical to Apple's new maps app, which will feature graphically intense 3D modeling as well as Siri integration for the turn-by-turn directions. Unfortunately, with the competition to make smartphones perform more traditional computer tasks, the growth in software resources is quickly growing beyond the ability of the older hardware. That 4 generations of iPhone will run iOS 6 is an achievement itself, even though a few of the 200 new features are not supported by older hardware. In comparison, 70% of Android devices are left running Gingerbread, circa iOS 3 old. Most iOS devices run are running iOS 5, the current version. Although neither platform is perfect, iOS devices receive more OS upgrades than Android devices, which typically won't qualify for OS upgrades during the first year of ownership

    Chees !
    Well stated, Sandman619.


    Just Me, D
    (iPhone 4S)
    While the "older hardware" explanation does make sense for some things, I have a very hard time believing it in this case, again because that same hardware can already run 3rd party apps that provide turn-by-turn functionality. I find it difficult to believe that a bunch of 3rd party companies are doing something that Apple can't. They can do it, they simply won't.

    That said, I do understand that it's business as usual. But it's a bit insulting to be offered such transparent excuses when evidence to the contrary is in plain sight.
    Fausty82 likes this.
    06-14-2012 10:00 AM
  20. Superjudge's Avatar
    I hear ya, and I agree. However, if a watered-down version of the os upgrade can be released, why not a watered-down version of the new map app? I have an iphone 4...I don't need Siri, and I don't need 3D modeling. Why can't navigation be released without the 3d modeling feature and siri?

    I guess another point of view many have (myself included sometimes), is that they would much rather use and trust a native application instead of a third party app from the app store...especially an app that is helping you NOT get lost! I have had many apps downloaded which would constantly freeze up, or fail in some way; I feel that having turn by turn in the native app is less likely to crap out on you in times of need.
    I agree with this sentiment. They can make a watered down version of some of the iOS 6 features without pushing everything to the device and turn by turn is a feature that makes the 3GS and 4 competitive with the capabilities of lower end Android phones. It's such a common feature on other phones that to deny it to users that have come to iOS within the last 6-8 months and will have that phone or another year and half is poor customer service on Apples part.

    Siri is still just a niche feature set that makes sense for their more recent phones but is not essential to having a good experience with iOS.
    06-14-2012 10:25 AM
  21. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    ...(snipped)... I find it difficult to believe that a bunch of 3rd party companies are doing something that Apple can't. They can do it, they simply won't.
    I agree.

    That said, I do understand that it's business as usual. But it's a bit insulting to be offered such transparent excuses when evidence to the contrary is in plain sight.
    No doubt. At the same time, because they really have no competition at the moment, they can easily fall into the trap of thinking that they do not need to provide certain things and simply leave it to 3rd party developers to do. Think about it. It is not a loss to them because people are still buying their devices and I am *assuming* they get a cut from each app sold in their App Store.



    Just Me, D
    (iPhone 4S)
    06-14-2012 10:26 AM
  22. LCW's Avatar
    That said, I agree with the OP. And I'd like to add that it is absolutely ridiculous that the iPhone 3GS will be getting iOS 6 (even in a feature-gutted form), but the first generation iPad is being left behind completely. What the hell is up with that?
    Probably because apple still sells 3GS but doesn't sell iPad 1 anymore.
    Fausty82 likes this.
    06-14-2012 10:41 AM
  23. Fausty82's Avatar
    Probably because apple still sells 3GS but doesn't sell iPad 1 anymore.
    That, my friend, is an excellent observation...
    06-14-2012 10:45 AM
  24. sting7k's Avatar
    I understand that there are apps for that, and it can be achieved by jailbreaking...but my point is this is something that shouldn't require a third pary app or a jailbreak (at least not now that it is available for a few apple devices).

    If I am not mistaken, turn-by-turn navigation came with every android OS since the beginning, and on every device whether it was a cheapy, entry level device, or the greatest, fastest device to date. I can totally understand if apple doesn't want to add the 3d aspect of the new maps to the iPhone 4 and lower, but simple turn-by-turn should be added...even to the 3gs.
    Replace turn-by-turn navigation with MMS in your post and you sound exactly like ten thousand other posts from 2007. Get over it; if it's that import get an app that does it or buy Android.

    At least your phone will still work. Two years ago iOS 4 made most people's iPhone 3G completely unusable. You will just not have a feature or two.
    06-14-2012 11:04 AM
  25. jburke82's Avatar
    While the "older hardware" explanation does make sense for some things, I have a very hard time believing it in this case, again because that same hardware can already run 3rd party apps that provide turn-by-turn functionality. I find it difficult to believe that a bunch of 3rd party companies are doing something that Apple can't. They can do it, they simply won't.

    That said, I do understand that it's business as usual. But it's a bit insulting to be offered such transparent excuses when evidence to the contrary is in plain sight.
    Thank you!! I obviously couldn't have said it better myself!
    06-14-2012 11:07 AM
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