1. siwel1976's Avatar
    I'm thinking of getting the IPhone 4. I never had an IPhone. Does it have Adobe Flash Player?
    07-15-2011 12:23 AM
  2. Fausty82's Avatar
    Nope. Steve Jobs says flash is evil.
    Ham Solo likes this.
    07-15-2011 12:58 AM
  3. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    It can have flash support (of sorts) through a 3rd party browser app...but in native form, it does not have a "flash player", or flash support on safari.
    07-15-2011 07:03 AM
  4. Eileen89's Avatar
    Nope. Steve Jobs says flash is evil.
    Steve Jobs is evil.
    07-15-2011 09:47 AM
  5. dmcmoran's Avatar
    Nope. Steve Jobs says flash is evil.
    Hmm, he'd be stuffed if Adobe said Apple is evil and stopped developing for the platform.
    07-15-2011 09:25 PM
  6. Fausty82's Avatar
    Hmm, he'd be stuffed if Adobe said Apple is evil and stopped developing for the platform.
    No fair shooting the messenger...
    07-15-2011 11:57 PM
  7. avmsam's Avatar
    at first i thought it was dumb to be against flash but given what i've seen for html5, i agree that its a better choice... here's what steve jobs thinks about flash... he makes some valid points

    Thoughts on Flash
    07-16-2011 02:45 AM
  8. dmcmoran's Avatar
    It's what I dont like about the apple ethos. If I'm going to buy a product, it's because I want to use it the way I want to, not how someone else says how I'm going to use it.

    There are specs that people have been crying out for years to be included in IOS. Jobs needs to get over himself on this. You cannot create a product in your own vision and expect everyone to adopt that vision.

    Include the stuff, but have a roles & functions page to switch these items on or off. I mean fory crying out loud, how many smart phones do you know of that aren't smart enough to be able to bluetooth a picture to another phone out of the box? It'd be laughable if it weren't for the expense involved!

    We're probably tapping into about 4 tenths of the iphones capabilites, and why? Because Steve Jobs doesn't want HIS phone to he used like that. I got news Jobs, it's the buying public that makes a product, you design and create it!

    One day we may get tired of our requirements falling on deaf ears and vote with our wallets. I think iphone and ipad are the best products in their field, in the world. But, they're massively hampered by what amounts to bratishness!

    You want to get rid of jailbreaking (no, I haven't and wont)? Remove the need to jailbreak. Why do you think people do it in the first place? It would still be under apple control as they would be writing the functionality.

    Rant over
    Last edited by dmcmoran; 07-16-2011 at 08:51 AM.
    vel4769 likes this.
    07-16-2011 07:14 AM
  9. Eileen89's Avatar
    If people really need flash there are other OS out there now that do offer it...


    Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk.
    Last edited by Irish Rose; 07-16-2011 at 07:58 AM.
    07-16-2011 07:25 AM
  10. dmcmoran's Avatar
    If people really need flash there are other OS out there now that do offer it...


    Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk.
    Yeah, I dont need flash either. May be one or two moments when it would of been nice but it's no biggie
    07-16-2011 08:53 AM
  11. Eileen89's Avatar
    Yeah, I dont need flash either. May be one or two moments when it would of been nice but it's no biggie
    Also, there are a few good third party browsers that can be used during those few times that you need to view flash content.


    Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk.
    07-16-2011 11:47 AM
  12. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    It's what I dont like about the apple ethos. If I'm going to buy a product, it's because I want to use it the way I want to, not how someone else says how I'm going to use it.

    There are specs that people have been crying out for years to be included in IOS. Jobs needs to get over himself on this. You cannot create a product in your own vision and expect everyone to adopt that vision.

    Include the stuff, but have a roles & functions page to switch these items on or off. I mean fory crying out loud, how many smart phones do you know of that aren't smart enough to be able to bluetooth a picture to another phone out of the box? It'd be laughable if it weren't for the expense involved!

    We're probably tapping into about 4 tenths of the iphones capabilites, and why? Because Steve Jobs doesn't want HIS phone to he used like that. I got news Jobs, it's the buying public that makes a product, you design and create it!

    One day we may get tired of our requirements falling on deaf ears and vote with our wallets. I think iphone and ipad are the best products in their field, in the world. But, they're massively hampered by what amounts to bratishness!

    You want to get rid of jailbreaking (no, I haven't and wont)? Remove the need to jailbreak. Why do you think people do it in the first place? It would still be under apple control as they would be writing the functionality.

    Rant over
    You should really research the reasons why Jobs avoided flash support on iOS devices before you write a long rant like this that just shows you've never really read into it at all...
    07-16-2011 02:16 PM
  13. L_Boogie820's Avatar
    You should really research the reasons why Jobs avoided flash support on iOS devices before you write a long rant like this that just shows you've never really read into it at all...

    I understand his rant along with my Steve Jobs doesn't want Flash on his phones BUT I will say this...I have both the Thunderbolt and iPhone4 (because I too bashed apple like a step-child) and although after horrendous experiences with the 2g/3g/3gs...I actually like the 4 A LOT...but Flash would make this device much better IMO. I actually used flash A LOT on the TBolt..reason I know this is I try to do the same stuff and BAM! There is that grey box with the words FLASH in the middle. Its disheartening. lol. I downloaded Frash but that doesn't seem to help much.
    07-16-2011 02:46 PM
  14. dmcmoran's Avatar
    You should really research the reasons why Jobs avoided flash support on iOS devices before you write a long rant like this that just shows you've never really read into it at all...
    If you 'research' my rant in more detail then you'll know I'm not just talking about flash!!! Bluetooth? Flash? I see no corelation there, maybe you missed my earlier post where I said flash wasn't a big deal to me. The iphone of today has still a long way to go before it can match some of the functionality as Nokia's N95! Steve Jobs has done the same with pretty much everything apple one way.

    Why is OS X Lion just starting to use full screens? He always said there was no requirement. Now there is a whole load of fanfare because of full screen browsing........ Something just about every other GUI has managed since the invention of the GUI!

    Steve is a genius in his own right. He's a visionary, inovator and I admire his strong beliefs but he could allow apple products to be so much more. For example, the ipad has the api's already there for touch sensitivity. Why has this not been enabled? It's a multitouch device for crying out loud. It's been massively adopted by artists and already has the ability to be a mini Cintiq and take a slice out of Wacom's market. Apple have seen the youtube videos but yet they still wont budge and unlock it.
    Last edited by dmcmoran; 07-16-2011 at 04:27 PM.
    07-16-2011 04:13 PM
  15. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    If you 'research' my rant in more detail then you'll know I'm not just talking about flash!!! Bluetooth? Flash? I see no corelation there, maybe you missed my earlier post where I said flash wasn't a big deal to me. The iphone of today has still a long way to go before it can match some of the functionality as Nokia's N95! Steve Jobs has done the same with pretty much everything apple one way.

    Why is OS X Lion just starting to use full screens? He always said there was no requirement. Now there is a whole load of fanfare because of full screen browsing........ Something just about every other GUI has managed since the invention of the GUI!

    Steve is a genius in his own right. He's a visionary, inovator and I admire his strong beliefs but he could allow apple products to be so much more. For example, the ipad has the api's already there for touch sensitivity. Why has this not been enabled? It's a multitouch device for crying out loud. It's been massively adopted by artists and already has the ability to be a mini Cintiq and take a slice out of Wacom's market. Apple have seen the youtube videos but yet they still wont budge and unlock it.
    So your argument here is that Apple products could be so much more by making them so much like other things in the industry?

    Gotcha... :o
    07-16-2011 07:24 PM
  16. dmcmoran's Avatar
    So your argument here is that Apple products could be so much more by making them so much like other things in the industry?

    Gotcha... :o
    No, make them better than what is in the industry, not what the industry was 4 years ago. You know exactly what I'm talking about so why try and be smart?

    Facetime: lets make an application for video calling that's part of a MOBILE device that you can only use with wifi. We know the first thing everyone will say is why is it wifi only and not 3G, but hey we still wont change that, even when Fring has 4 way video calls because we're Apple and we're so inovative! Maybe in IOS 5 or 6!

    Ipad: Let's make this neat tablet device that does X, Y, Z.
    What about a camera?
    Camera? what the hell do we need a camera for, we couldn't get a camera in there!

    Ipad 2: Let's make this neat tablet device that does X, Y, Z.
    Does it have a camera?
    Hell yeah, 2.
    So why didn't the first ipad have one?
    Oh man, where did you come from...... People didn't use camera's then, we couldn't fit one in and besides, we got soooo much flak that last time!!
    But it had a larger chassis, and you did get 2 in the iphone 4?
    Ermmm........

    I think you get the picture! The idea for new technology is for it to be new, not old. My 8 year old nephew has a 15 tesco special. Trying to explain whay my 600 iphone can't recieve a photo that he took via bluetooth isn't all that funny.

    I'm not going to bother with any more replies, your obviously a fanboy and Apple never does anything wrong!
    Last edited by dmcmoran; 07-16-2011 at 11:09 PM.
    07-16-2011 11:03 PM
  17. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    I'm not going to bother with any more replies, your obviously a fanboy and Apple never does anything wrong!
    Awww...going with the personal shots now huh? Easy out when your logic fails...

    I'll take a few minutes to retort regardless...

    - Have you seen the Fring quality "facetime" type video calls vs. the actual facetime quality? I think that speaks worlds as to why Apple avoided (for now) facetime over the cellular network, Frings quality is **** poor.

    - iPad v.1 camera? Apple released the iPad to be first feet on the tarmac, to start the game and get the interest (hazard to say...TEST the interest?)...the market was there, the iPad succeeded, and thus, further polishing of the product...

    Let's take flashes for example...cameras on cell phones have had flashes for quite a long time...why is the iPhone 4 the first to get it? Well it's pretty simple, flashes on cell phones are pretty much useless, INCLUDING the iPhone 4's, but to appease the masses, Apple decided "We'll put one on there, it can serve multiple functions now, from a camera flash to a flashlight, make it meet our quality standards and give them something they want (even if it is useless)..." Im sure there were hours of meetings on whether to include it on iPhone 4, as like every other flash on a cell phone, its still terrible.

    You see...Apple (S. Jobs) have pride themselves on releasing products that work and satisfy...no non-sense, hardware that keep the usability and efficiency of features at the top of their list of importance...useless tiny little camera on the iPad that will drive production on a product they dont even know will be successful? Leave it off...test the waters...then if the shoe fits, polish up the product with a new design.

    Its really quite simple here, you're just stuck in attack mode when it comes to this subject matter. The truth is, just because a feature exists doesn't make it a good idea to use it...Apple has been really good at making sure the stuff they put in their hardware is to a standard people expect out of an Apple product...what you're assuming is that Apple can make these features better so that they meet the standards we've come to almost DEMAND these days from Apple...in some ways they have...and obviously, in some ways they haven't, but while you want to assume its because they like to "hold out" or basically screw the consumer...i personally see it as a company that doesn't want to give us another Android or Blackberry, where the phone gets chalked full of features, many of which are either half wit attempts or just purely useless.

    But you want to make this personal, call me a fan boy, and run around the playground like a 5th grader sticking your tongue out because i called you out on one of your comments and you didn't like it. Tell you what, when you can leave the elementary school playground name calling out...we'll continue debating this like adults...until then, enjoy recess.
    Last edited by SeanHRCC; 07-16-2011 at 11:25 PM.
    07-16-2011 11:21 PM
  18. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    Also, i don't think Apple is perfect...far from it actually, but where my issues lie are more with product support over the hardware lifespans vs. yours, which we've gone over ad nauseam. Apple is a business, and because of such, its primary goal is still to achieve success as a business...they arn't a charity or non-profit organization, so they are out to make a buck, they just happen to also hold a standard for the products they feed the consumer with, which is a stark and wonderful difference compared to so many of the competitors out there that Apple has neighboring it.

    But again, this is big boy talk...and you like name calling...so perhaps one day we can finish this convo properly.
    07-16-2011 11:40 PM
  19. dmcmoran's Avatar
    Awww...going with the personal shots now huh? Easy out when your logic fails...

    I'll take a few minutes to retort regardless...

    - Have you seen the Fring quality "facetime" type video calls vs. the actual facetime quality? I think that speaks worlds as to why Apple avoided (for now) facetime over the cellular network, Frings quality is **** poor.

    - iPad v.1 camera? Apple released the iPad to be first feet on the tarmac, to start the game and get the interest (hazard to say...TEST the interest?)...the market was there, the iPad succeeded, and thus, further polishing of the product...

    Let's take flashes for example...cameras on cell phones have had flashes for quite a long time...why is the iPhone 4 the first to get it? Well it's pretty simple, flashes on cell phones are pretty much useless, INCLUDING the iPhone 4's, but to appease the masses, Apple decided "We'll put one on there, it can serve multiple functions now, from a camera flash to a flashlight, make it meet our quality standards and give them something they want (even if it is useless)..." Im sure there were hours of meetings on whether to include it on iPhone 4, as like every other flash on a cell phone, its still terrible.

    You see...Apple (S. Jobs) have pride themselves on releasing products that work and satisfy...no non-sense, hardware that keep the usability and efficiency of features at the top of their list of importance...useless tiny little camera on the iPad that will drive production on a product they dont even know will be successful? Leave it off...test the waters...then if the shoe fits, polish up the product with a new design.

    Its really quite simple here, you're just stuck in attack mode when it comes to this subject matter. The truth is, just because a feature exists doesn't make it a good idea to use it...Apple has been really good at making sure the stuff they put in their hardware is to a standard people expect out of an Apple product...what you're assuming is that Apple can make these features better so that they meet the standards we've come to almost DEMAND these days from Apple...in some ways they have...and obviously, in some ways they haven't, but while you want to assume its because they like to "hold out" or basically screw the consumer...i personally see it as a company that doesn't want to give us another Android or Blackberry, where the phone gets chalked full of features, many of which are either half wit attempts or just purely useless.

    But you want to make this personal, call me a fan boy, and run around the playground like a 5th grader sticking your tongue out because i called you out on one of your comments and you didn't like it. Tell you what, when you can leave the elementary school playground name calling out...we'll continue debating this like adults...until then, enjoy recess.
    Well I wasn't going to respond but that bit caught my attention.

    It's not **** poor on my network carrier. With you saying cellular network I take it you're in the US. I have no idea what it's like in the states, but in the UK it's pretty good.

    There's no name calling and I stand by my original conviction, you do come across like a fanboy.

    Obviously you do not get what I am saying and what millions of people think. Apples IOS is fairly primitive compared to the rest of the market. I'm not talking about arty farty little apps that do this that and the other. I'm talking about everyday use, BASIC functionality. I couldn't give a rats arse about flash. Here's a few:

    Camera
    Camera control is poor at best. The are no pre-process controls for cloudy, sunlight, night, tungsten lighting etc. And before you say they're just gimicks, no they aren't. Just check the reviews in the app store of the top camera apps, they work and I have a few. I could post a picture I took years ago with an N95 8GB. All processing is pre-processing with the built in software. (By the way, not all flash is useless. Ever used a xenon Cybershot?)

    Photo's
    Why has it taken nearly 4 and a half years for Apple to get it together and fix one of the longest running gripes surrounding IOS? Albums. Photo albums are an organising standard in any device designed to view photos. Why should I need a PC just to create an album on a mobile phone? And whats with not being able to delete said album from the phone without using said PC? Oh, look what's coming in IOS 5.... Albums!

    Bluetooth
    You made no reply regarding my comments on IOS bluetooth. We all know it's limited to the point of asking why it's there.

    If the current IOS meets the needs of todays world tell me, why is jailbreaking so popular (disgarding the fact tgat apps are free)? So people can use the phone the way they used their last, to perform basic everday tasks that we should be able to do on a 600 phone! I'm talking about standard base level functionality. If I want to send a friend stood next to me with a Nokia or HTC a picture, i want to do just that. Pair and send. What I don't wnat to do is have to mms it, email it or hope his/her handset has bump available. And you think that's wrong?

    Apple make some seriously fantastic hardware for the 21st century........ Then go and ruin it by running it on software for the 20th century. My argument and comments are very much valid.

    As for getting personal, perhaps you ought not to jump in first with comments amounting to telling people that they don't know what they're talking about, as you did in your very first post to me. Technology is how I make my living, i've done so for many years and I know hardware limiting software when I see it!
    Last edited by dmcmoran; 07-17-2011 at 08:22 AM.
    07-17-2011 07:59 AM
  20. ghostface147's Avatar
    Even if Apple did everything like YOU wanted, people would still jailbreak, people would still hate it. You must be a real lazy person if you can't MMS someone a video because bluetooth is an option.

    You come on this site and then get your panties in a wad because there are Apple fanboys in here? The craziness. I was on here expecting hardcore TREO love.....

    You work in technology, so go do something meaningful that the world will appreciate. Until then, you're just another tech person.

    Funny how some people say Apple needs to do this, needs to do that, stuck in the 20th century and blah blah blah. The people have voted with their wallets and guess what? They are making serious cash, are growing in marketshare at others expenses and doing just fine.
    07-17-2011 09:40 AM
  21. Eileen89's Avatar
    Funny how some people say Apple needs to do this, needs to do that, stuck in the 20th century and blah blah blah. The people have voted with their wallets and guess what? They are making serious cash, are growing in marketshare at others expenses and doing just fine.
    You are exactly spot on with this. I haven't seen one other smartphone or Tablet in the world that produces this amount of people year after year. If customers were really that unhappy with the iPhone, they wouldn't waste their time waiting in a long line for it...






    Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk.
    Last edited by Irish Rose; 07-17-2011 at 09:59 AM.
    07-17-2011 09:57 AM
  22. dmcmoran's Avatar
    Even if Apple did everything like YOU wanted, people would still jailbreak, people would still hate it. You must be a real lazy person if you can't MMS someone a video because bluetooth is an option.

    You come on this site and then get your panties in a wad because there are Apple fanboys in here? The craziness. I was on here expecting hardcore TREO love.....

    You work in technology, so go do something meaningful that the world will appreciate. Until then, you're just another tech person.

    Funny how some people say Apple needs to do this, needs to do that, stuck in the 20th century and blah blah blah. The people have voted with their wallets and guess what? They are making serious cash, are growing in marketshare at others expenses and doing just fine.
    Like i want? Read the damn forum your posting on, then go and say the same thing to each and everyone of those people. Then when you've done that, you can police youtube and email everbody on there who have an oppinion, then you can start on the media. Is this site an official Apple site or an affiliated site? No, so wind your neck in. I don't hate it, I like it otherwise I wouldn't have bought it. Coming from the N95 it's worlds apart but there are some things that it could do but can't do, because of it not being included in the IOS, that the N95 makes it look stupid, not smart. If you don't like that or want to hear of it then tuff cookies!

    You're telling me that I'm the only one who has commented on this? Funny how you have no comeback on the examples I made, oh and I'm sorry I didn't know it was YOUR site or are you the appointed posting police? If I recall correctly, when Apple first released the Iphone on 2G it had no MMS because Steve Job's view was that he didn't want it on his product and that the hardware wasn't upto it, that was a BIG deal was it not?

    http://www.tipb.com/2009/05/08/1st-g...ne-owners-mms/

    This forum is for people with their own opinions also, and seeing as I have purchased the hardware I have a right to express my opinion and that is mine. Great hardware, very good software but Apple needs to impliment a few things to make it truly great. Most of my comments are being addressed in IOS 5, why do think that is? Maybe because apple have listened to the users saying what I did, otherwise those improvements wouldn't be included in it's release, or do you not see that logic. Everyone I know with an iphone have all drawn the same conclusions, are they talking out of there arse also?

    Yeah I am a tech person and because of it I see where things would benifit from improving, laziness has got **** all to do with it. The fact I get charged for it does, so shove your laziness comments where the sun don't shine! You want me to not have an opinion, fine you buy me my next apple product, pay for my contract and then I'll keep my mouth closed. Untill then I will have an opinion. And how do you know I already haven't done something meaningful? You don't so quit with the wise arse cracks!

    I have 2 Apple products bought within the last year and will buy another 3 products within the next 6 months so get off your high horse.

    Apple and HTC's market share escalated when Nokia lost the plot 2 years ago, but you'll disagree with that also.

    IRISH ROSE: It's the fact that Apple are so slow on the uptake to improve and implement what really should of been there since it's release. We're not talking months but years for these things to happen.
    Last edited by dmcmoran; 07-17-2011 at 12:34 PM.
    07-17-2011 12:03 PM
  23. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    *yawn*

    You're so easily frustrated, it's actually quite comical. And you continue with your personal shots, which is also funny (but a little more pitiful honestly). Your argument hasn't been furthered, just reiterated over and over again...it screams redundancy, but i will try to work through it.

    Fring has **** poor video chat...period. It doesn't matter what carrier you are on, or what part of the world you are in...it doesn't even come CLOSE to the quality of the WiFi standard Facetime native to the iPhone...there's simply no argument to that, and it's THE reason why there is no 3G facetime (yet).

    Then you go on and on and on about camera and picture sharing features...lol. Are these things the deal breaker for you? Bluetooth picture sharing? Really? Who doesn't use unlimited texting plans these days? A much more convenient outlet than having to stand in range with someone to share pictures...are you and your buddies all standing around in a circle just dying to see what pictures each other has? I don't find myself suffering through that kind of "epic down fall" as you have basically coined it...when i want to share a picture, i send an MMS...takes a few seconds, simple...no need to go through connecting to another phone manually, i simply send it and im done. You want a more labor intensive way of sharing pictures? Stick with the other hand sets your so passionately defending their "top shelf" technology for.

    You didn't address a single point i made, and i already know why...but i'll ask again, just because another companies hardware HAS features you want doesn't make them "good" or even usable...what's the point in having said features if either A) nobody uses them, or B) they arn't usable really to begin with?

    Lastly, your comment about Apple ruining products with 20th century technology is simply hilarious...the only retort i have to that is that i finally figured out your purpose here...to stir the pot, kick up dust...troll a few threads with your opinion why Apple sucks...and then move on.

    And to that, i'm found my end with your "debate", its boring, redundant, and cannot be discussed because you think you're on top of the totem pole because you work in the industry (which is laughable, considering you're on a forum arguing consumer issues but using your professional status as a "trump card" against...wait for it...consumers.

    Troll away kiddo...your N95 must not be too interesting to you if you find time to spam up our forum with your "Grass is greener" posts.
    Last edited by SeanHRCC; 07-17-2011 at 12:43 PM.
    07-17-2011 12:30 PM
  24. Eileen89's Avatar

    IRISH ROSE: It's the fact that Apple are so slow on the uptake to improve and implement what really should of been there since it's release. We're not talking months but years for these things to happen.
    Don't know where you're getting this "Apple is slow on the uptake" from. It's a known fact that every phone out on the market today has something that could be improved on. I also belong to a Blackberry and Android forum. Members there are no different than here, always wanting more and more. If you think Apple is behind in their OS, go look at some of the new Android devices that have been released recently that are still running 2.2 even though 2.3 has been out for quite a while now. No, IMHO, Apple is doing very well in terms of keeping the OS on their devices up to date.... Oh, and by the way, Nokia was starting to fade out long before the iPhone came into the picture....


    Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk.
    07-17-2011 12:57 PM
  25. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    There's really no point in arguing with him, he's not here for a discussion or a debate, he's here to complain on why he doesn't like Apple products...in other words, he's a troll.
    07-17-2011 01:01 PM
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