No. I haven't tried that, yet. I conducted some tests over the weekend, mostly short hops while my wife and I were driving around, using Zillow, looking at houses and it was back to its old self, in and out. I got to thinking about you turning off all the background apps just about the time we were getting done, so I never did try that, myself. I figured Zillow, being a GPS and network-heavy app was probably causing a lot of probs because I was constantly switching between it and MotionX. Anyway, got that prompt from Verizon late yesterday afternoon and all seems to be well... I hope. I'll let you know if it goes awry, again.
Verizon iPhone GPS issues
- Thread starter Kamilli0n
- Start date
Another 50 miles and it's still (mostly) working. The signal indicator showed loss of signal several times, but it was never longr than just a few seconds and very irregular. I've got another long leg of driving, so I'll let you know how it goes.
BTW, I think I may have invoked that network reconfiguration yesterday. I had gone into the network settings where you turn off the 3G and reset the network settings on the phone. It wasn't long after I did that that I got that prompt from Verizon.
BTW, I think I may have invoked that network reconfiguration yesterday. I had gone into the network settings where you turn off the 3G and reset the network settings on the phone. It wasn't long after I did that that I got that prompt from Verizon.
Icyhot1966
Well-known member
I updated mine too, but I haven't had a chance to test the GPS, I have stayed at home all day today LOL
After reading this thread I did a carrier update, tried using the gps after closing all background apps, and also tried using the gps after disabling cellular data. The one solution that worked perfectly was to disable the cellular data. After doing so I never once lost a connection during my normal route to work which typically loses gps signal about a dozen times (10-30 seconds each) during the trip.
I tested and confirmed that this "fix" worked in Waze and Navigon. I even managed to keep a perfect gps lock this morning during a heavy rain.
I tested and confirmed that this "fix" worked in Waze and Navigon. I even managed to keep a perfect gps lock this morning during a heavy rain.
Last edited:
Icyhot1966
Well-known member
mi_canuck#IM
Well-known member
i find the GPS on my verizon iphone4 working as well or better than when i had an at&t iphones (3GS & 4)
locks in quickly and accurately... also, with find my iphone, it pinpoints my location even inside my work office and in my house... (when i look at the satellite view)...
no complaints on the verizon iphone's GSP at all...
locks in quickly and accurately... also, with find my iphone, it pinpoints my location even inside my work office and in my house... (when i look at the satellite view)...
no complaints on the verizon iphone's GSP at all...
Icyhot1966
Well-known member
True, but the issue seems to be with 3rd party GPS apps. Navigon, TomTom, MotionX, Mapquest Mobile, etc..The actual built in Maps program seems to be the only one who will hold a GPS lock with no loss for an extended period of time without having to try a trick, i.e. closing all apps out or turning cellular data off.
Same old routine: abysmal performance. Strange how you'll change a setting and it will work flawlessly for an extended period of time, then the next time you use it, with all settings left the same as before, it goes back to the same repetitive failure mode. I tried killing all background apps. Didn't do anything for me. Turning off the data radio seems to be the only reliable fix.
Icyhot1966
Well-known member
Icyhot1966
Well-known member
I tell ya...I used the built in Maps coming to work today, used the hybrid map and it was very nice. With it in the compass mode, it is quickly becoming my GPS app of choice. I've also heard the Jailbreak community is working on adding voice turn by turn directions to it. But even without the voice, the phone sits in a holder on my dash so it's easy to read, therefore voice is not a make or break deal. I'll just stick with the built in Maps 
Shuckster
Active member
I'm thinking about going from the VZ navigator to TomTom. How does it work when your on a call? Does it suspend GPS while on the call? How is the speakerphone??
I've been busy with work, but have continued testing this. All I can conclude is that the only way I can get reliable GPS is when I'm in an area where cellular signal is non-existent or when I manually turn off the cellular data in the phone settings. Now, the big issue is tracking down the proper individual(s) to report this to, assuming they've not already discovered it and are (hopefully) working on a fix.
Same here. Communicating with Apple and MotionX
Here is a reply email from me to MotionX. It explains most of what I'm dealing with. Same intermitent GPS signal. Not present with native app.
MotionX,
Thank you for your response. I am actually quite familiar with how the phone and GPS in general work. I'm a software engineer myself. The signal strength I am referring to on the iPhone is in the GPS Drive app on the "my position" screen there is a signal strength indicator which shows satellite reception, or "Triangulation" if the unit is using the assisted GPS function of the iPhone to collect location information from the cellular network. In the native maps app if I leave the device on for five minutes in a completely stationary position, with the auto screen lock setting turned off, the blue dot keeps "pinging" indicating it has GPS signal. If I do the same thing in your app at some point the GPS signal strength indicator will go all the way to nothing (and the spinning globe will turn red), and then almost immediately the signal strength will bounce back to full strength and the globe will turn blue. This is the signal strength on the "My Position" screen in the app, not the cellular signal strength indicated in the top status bar. I also think this happens less frequently when cellular data is turned off. This indicates to me there is some kind of unwanted behavior associated with the GPS antenna and the 3G data antenna. They are on the same chipset in the Verizon iPhone (as opposed to the GSM iPhone where they are discrete). I don't know if it is possible that Apple has designed there native Maps app slightly differently to address this different chip design. Also, it seems that it might be related to tower handoffs on the CDMA network. Again, I know you get the same information that the maps app does, but the native app does not have this problem. Also, you did issue an update to the GPS Drive app when the Verizon iPhone came out to address some compatibility issues so maybe this update did not fully patch the application for use on the Verizon network. Again, I know cellular and GPS are discrete signals, but in the Verizon iPhone they are received by the same chipset. It is possible that there are some different characteristics to the way the data is output from this chipset and therefore needs to be compensated for in the application. For example, maybe the device isn't in fact losing it's GPS signal but because the data footprint of the chipset might be interpreted by your application as a loss of signal when in fact there is still a signal. The GPS Drive app is very good at getting a signal even inside, which is why its loss of signal outside for very brief periods doesn't make sense.
Hope this helps a little. Here is a link to a blog that is currently active on this exact issue. Read through the posts (couple pages). It's not just your app but a lot of the third party navigation apps.
Update: I just went for a walk around my neighborhood loop. Open view of the sky the whole time. I turned the screen lock of and walked the loop first with the iPhone open to the native Maps application. The app tracked perfectly with the small blue circle pinging the entire time, no loss of signal. The loop is about 9 minutes. I did the same loop this time with the GPS-Drive app open to the my position screen so I could watch the GPS signal bars. Every minute or so the signal would spontaneously drop to nothing and the globe would turn red. About ten seconds later the the signal would return and go back to full strength, the globe would turn blue. This continued every minute or so for the duration of the loop. Both times around the loop the only app running on the device was either the Maps app or the GPS Drive app. All other apps were closed out in the app switcher drawer before beginning the test. After completing the loop the second time I end I opened the native app and then GPS Drive. As soon as GPS Drive would lose signal I would "fast app switch" to the native Maps app and it would be tracking (pinging). When I returned to the GPS Drive app it would return to normal shortly. I also own your other app, MotionX GPS. I opened GPS and tried this app next and did not have the same loss of signal I experienced with GPS Drive. This was the first time I have done this test with GPS so I can't say how accurate it was, but as of now it appears as though the problem may be isolated to GPS Drive and not GPS. Again, this was a quick test of GPS. The problems with GPS Drive are consistent and reproducible. They do not exist under the same conditions with the native maps app.
Here is a reply email from me to MotionX. It explains most of what I'm dealing with. Same intermitent GPS signal. Not present with native app.
MotionX,
Thank you for your response. I am actually quite familiar with how the phone and GPS in general work. I'm a software engineer myself. The signal strength I am referring to on the iPhone is in the GPS Drive app on the "my position" screen there is a signal strength indicator which shows satellite reception, or "Triangulation" if the unit is using the assisted GPS function of the iPhone to collect location information from the cellular network. In the native maps app if I leave the device on for five minutes in a completely stationary position, with the auto screen lock setting turned off, the blue dot keeps "pinging" indicating it has GPS signal. If I do the same thing in your app at some point the GPS signal strength indicator will go all the way to nothing (and the spinning globe will turn red), and then almost immediately the signal strength will bounce back to full strength and the globe will turn blue. This is the signal strength on the "My Position" screen in the app, not the cellular signal strength indicated in the top status bar. I also think this happens less frequently when cellular data is turned off. This indicates to me there is some kind of unwanted behavior associated with the GPS antenna and the 3G data antenna. They are on the same chipset in the Verizon iPhone (as opposed to the GSM iPhone where they are discrete). I don't know if it is possible that Apple has designed there native Maps app slightly differently to address this different chip design. Also, it seems that it might be related to tower handoffs on the CDMA network. Again, I know you get the same information that the maps app does, but the native app does not have this problem. Also, you did issue an update to the GPS Drive app when the Verizon iPhone came out to address some compatibility issues so maybe this update did not fully patch the application for use on the Verizon network. Again, I know cellular and GPS are discrete signals, but in the Verizon iPhone they are received by the same chipset. It is possible that there are some different characteristics to the way the data is output from this chipset and therefore needs to be compensated for in the application. For example, maybe the device isn't in fact losing it's GPS signal but because the data footprint of the chipset might be interpreted by your application as a loss of signal when in fact there is still a signal. The GPS Drive app is very good at getting a signal even inside, which is why its loss of signal outside for very brief periods doesn't make sense.
Hope this helps a little. Here is a link to a blog that is currently active on this exact issue. Read through the posts (couple pages). It's not just your app but a lot of the third party navigation apps.
Update: I just went for a walk around my neighborhood loop. Open view of the sky the whole time. I turned the screen lock of and walked the loop first with the iPhone open to the native Maps application. The app tracked perfectly with the small blue circle pinging the entire time, no loss of signal. The loop is about 9 minutes. I did the same loop this time with the GPS-Drive app open to the my position screen so I could watch the GPS signal bars. Every minute or so the signal would spontaneously drop to nothing and the globe would turn red. About ten seconds later the the signal would return and go back to full strength, the globe would turn blue. This continued every minute or so for the duration of the loop. Both times around the loop the only app running on the device was either the Maps app or the GPS Drive app. All other apps were closed out in the app switcher drawer before beginning the test. After completing the loop the second time I end I opened the native app and then GPS Drive. As soon as GPS Drive would lose signal I would "fast app switch" to the native Maps app and it would be tracking (pinging). When I returned to the GPS Drive app it would return to normal shortly. I also own your other app, MotionX GPS. I opened GPS and tried this app next and did not have the same loss of signal I experienced with GPS Drive. This was the first time I have done this test with GPS so I can't say how accurate it was, but as of now it appears as though the problem may be isolated to GPS Drive and not GPS. Again, this was a quick test of GPS. The problems with GPS Drive are consistent and reproducible. They do not exist under the same conditions with the native maps app.
Odd. Assisted GPS isn't tower triangulation, despite how often people seem to assume that it is. Assisted GPS still relies on GPS satellites. It just pulls data from assistance servers to obtain a faster initial GPS fix (versus standalone mode GPS).
Yeah...
That is just what the GPS app says when there is no GPS signal. I'm not sure if it is actually triangulating off of the cell towers or simply using the tower ID's to get it's approximate global location based on proximity.
That is just what the GPS app says when there is no GPS signal. I'm not sure if it is actually triangulating off of the cell towers or simply using the tower ID's to get it's approximate global location based on proximity.
More from MotionX today.
In this letter MotionX acknowledges that cellular or wifi location data can disrupt the GPS signal. However, this still doesn't explain why it loses reception after it has a lock.
Chris,
Thanks for your patience as I know this issue can be very frustrating. After further investigation of your concern I have some helpful information with may shed some light on the situation.
Problems can arise if a cell tower is incorrectly mapped by your service provider. Let's say they incorrectly map a cell tower that's in Oregon to be in Texas. Now everyone is Oregon who's trying to acquire a GPS signal is either shown they are in Texas (based on the tower identifier) or they are unable to acquire a GPS signal because the iPhone is listening for the wrong satellites. This particular situation has happened and you can read about it here:
http://arcelay.vox.com/library/post/fix-for-iphone-3g-gps-problems-turn-of-3g.html
The short term fix was for users to turn off their 3G service. Then the GPS signal was acquired quickly. The same problem can arise if a WiFi access point is incorrectly mapped to the wrong location in Skyhook's database. If their database shows the access point is in Santa Cruz, but someone moves and takes the access point to Utah, they may have trouble acquiring a GPS signal while in proximity to the access point until the location is updated in Skyhook's database.
As for why the native maps app works, I can only speculate Apple doesn't show when a signal is lost immediately in the map app as we do.
I hope this information helped. Please contact me if I can assist you with anything else.
In this letter MotionX acknowledges that cellular or wifi location data can disrupt the GPS signal. However, this still doesn't explain why it loses reception after it has a lock.
Chris,
Thanks for your patience as I know this issue can be very frustrating. After further investigation of your concern I have some helpful information with may shed some light on the situation.
Problems can arise if a cell tower is incorrectly mapped by your service provider. Let's say they incorrectly map a cell tower that's in Oregon to be in Texas. Now everyone is Oregon who's trying to acquire a GPS signal is either shown they are in Texas (based on the tower identifier) or they are unable to acquire a GPS signal because the iPhone is listening for the wrong satellites. This particular situation has happened and you can read about it here:
http://arcelay.vox.com/library/post/fix-for-iphone-3g-gps-problems-turn-of-3g.html
The short term fix was for users to turn off their 3G service. Then the GPS signal was acquired quickly. The same problem can arise if a WiFi access point is incorrectly mapped to the wrong location in Skyhook's database. If their database shows the access point is in Santa Cruz, but someone moves and takes the access point to Utah, they may have trouble acquiring a GPS signal while in proximity to the access point until the location is updated in Skyhook's database.
As for why the native maps app works, I can only speculate Apple doesn't show when a signal is lost immediately in the map app as we do.
I hope this information helped. Please contact me if I can assist you with anything else.
This whole thread is interesting. I too suffer the same problem with the Verizon iPhone. It really works pretty well with MotionX GPS drive, but I have the same issue of randomly losing signal with totally open sky. It often happens in the same location, but not always. Yet, while in San Francisco among the tall buildings, I have not lost signal once. I suspect there is an issue with the shared chip. I'll bet there is not a software fix for this. Just guessing, but I suspect there is come kind of cross talk there affecting the chip. Sure would be nice for a firmware update to it, but I don't think MotionX will be able to solve this. The solution likely will have to come from Apple, if there is one. Otherwise we are stuck. It does work well enough for me, and hasn't gotten me lost. But I think we all see the same behavior if we look. I don't think this is unique to your specific phone.
Icyhot1966
Well-known member
I wish someone like Rene or some of the mods here would take this to Apple. They have more pull than we do and this is a definite issue.
Perfect GPS with cellular data off.
I just did a test drive in an area with open sky, but MotionX continually loses reception for brief moments. This time I turned off the 3G cellular data as suggested. The GPS reception didn't lose signal once and normally would have lost it every few minutes. I too have noticed that it seems to lose reception in the same places. I am convinced this has something to do with the location data being sent from the towers, or the way the phone handles that data. It seems like the phone receives updated tower location data each time it interacts with a different tower and this information is screwing with the GPS momentarily. Almost as if it resets and then quickly locks on again. Unfortunately when I call Apple all they do is say they haven't heard of this problem and to retire the phone and set up as new. I really don't think this has anything to do with the solution and with a few hundred apps, tons of music and pictures this is no small task. Just reorganizing my apps into the appropriate folders will take a significant amount of time. I've already read of people replacing their phone and having the same problem. Also, it definitely seems location based so perhaps some tower aren't causing these problems and therefore not everyone has the issue. That, or most people don't look that closely and just use the built in maps.
I just did a test drive in an area with open sky, but MotionX continually loses reception for brief moments. This time I turned off the 3G cellular data as suggested. The GPS reception didn't lose signal once and normally would have lost it every few minutes. I too have noticed that it seems to lose reception in the same places. I am convinced this has something to do with the location data being sent from the towers, or the way the phone handles that data. It seems like the phone receives updated tower location data each time it interacts with a different tower and this information is screwing with the GPS momentarily. Almost as if it resets and then quickly locks on again. Unfortunately when I call Apple all they do is say they haven't heard of this problem and to retire the phone and set up as new. I really don't think this has anything to do with the solution and with a few hundred apps, tons of music and pictures this is no small task. Just reorganizing my apps into the appropriate folders will take a significant amount of time. I've already read of people replacing their phone and having the same problem. Also, it definitely seems location based so perhaps some tower aren't causing these problems and therefore not everyone has the issue. That, or most people don't look that closely and just use the built in maps.
Icyhot1966
Well-known member
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