1. jonmark's Avatar
    Or does anyone else feel like Apple kinda screws customers over sometimes? I mean, I love Apple, and yes I own all Apple products, but I do feel sometimes like they only care about the ones who own their latest products while the rest of us are left out to dry (or forced to upgrade).

    Of course, I know that sometimes so upgrades can't go with all models of their products due to software issues ... But this latest release of the app store for Mac, I was pretty excited about and then learned today when it was released that it is only compatible with Snow Leopard 10.6 and higher. I have a fairly new MacBook, maybe about 18 months old (if even) and because I run leopard 10.5, I (along with countless other MacBook users) am left without being able to enjoy the newest released stuff.

    First it was FaceTime for Mac, and now it's the app store for Mac. Not cool.

    Ok, sorry, just had to let that out and rant a little bit. Good day
    01-06-2011 07:20 PM
  2. bikedogrun's Avatar
    No need to be sorry, I totally agree!

    Would love to use FaceTime and the Mac App Store but my 2 yr old MacBook is (and likely to stay awhile) on Leopard too.

    I'm thinking that Apple would like to encourage an upgrade model for Macs that is similar to the iPhone... Like every few months on IOS updates. Will not happen IMHO /

    /BD
    01-06-2011 07:36 PM
  3. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    Loyalty though can only run so far and maintain a successful company...Apple understood that people were going to need Snow Leopard for almost EVERYTHING new from 2010 on, so instead of making it $200, they made it $30...which in the Apple world is basically handing it to you free of charge.

    We have to understand as a community that Apple DOES maintain contact with older products, but they simply can't accommodate every guy with a G4 tower running Tiger when they release new settings for Leopard (and so on between Snow Leopard and Leopard)...

    Apple has to keep it smart, they have to maintain a relationship that basically says "Hey guys, thank you for buying our products, 5 years in, we have to move on, but we'll still keep you up to date, and when you're ready, we have a whole new world to show you at the next level."
    01-06-2011 08:02 PM
  4. jonmark's Avatar
    Well yea, I totally understand if I still had my old PowerBook then by all means I know that things wouldn't be compatible. But I feel they should make more of an effort to offer the same amenities to *at least* the previous to latest operating systems and products. But that's just me.
    01-06-2011 08:06 PM
  5. bikedogrun's Avatar
    Apple has to keep it smart, they have to maintain a relationship that basically says "Hey guys, thank you for buying our products, 5 years in, we have to move on, but we'll still keep you up to date, and when you're ready, we have a whole new world to show you at the next level."
    Sorry, Sean but that just doesn't cut it.

    It totally makes sense on the iPhone when new IOS features require the new hardware capabilities on the 3GS and iPhone4 to work so aren't supported on the iPhone 3G. It "does NOT" make sense that say the numeric remaining battery life is not supported in IOS on a 3G.

    Nor does it make sense (and is not a customer loyalty building move) to keep say FaceTime or the Mac Store from loyal Leopard customers "UNLESS" there is a specific lack in the Leopard OS that prevents same.

    As a VERY loyal Apple customer of some years, I am OK with being on an upgrade treadmill for quick moving & constantly changing products like the iPad and iPhone... But I am a bit more relaxed in my upgrades on my MacBook but still expect new features to be made available to me when they can be (i.e. not restricted by my hardware).

    Are those REALLY such unreasonable expectations for a customer to have???

    Steve J - what do you say???

    /BD
    01-06-2011 08:18 PM
  6. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    You're talking an operating system that is going on 5 years old...when do you draw the line? They released their new operating system at practically NO COST to you...$30 for an entire OS? Let's get real man, Leopard prob could have all the features of Snow Leopard, but Apple wants you to enjoy a Mac level experience, and if you've ever tried adding stuff onto older macs, you know how quickly the OS's can become over powered.

    5 years in the computer world is a LIFETIME...you simply cannot fairly expect a company to maintain brand new features in an operating system that old, NO company does that. Honestly man, you should be happy you get improvements at all...Windows users are so used to simply being happy with security and virus updates that when it comes to actual FEATURE additions, they act like it's the second coming of Christ or something.
    01-06-2011 08:21 PM
  7. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    Sorry, Sean but that just doesn't cut it.

    It totally makes sense on the iPhone when new IOS features require the new hardware capabilities on the 3GS and iPhone4 to work so aren't supported on the iPhone 3G. It "does NOT" make sense that say the numeric remaining battery life is not supported in IOS on a 3G.

    Nor does it make sense (and is not a customer loyalty building move) to keep say FaceTime or the Mac Store from loyal Leopard customers "UNLESS" there is a specific lack in the Leopard OS that prevents same.

    As a VERY loyal Apple customer of some years, I am OK with being on an upgrade treadmill for quick moving & constantly changing products like the iPad and iPhone... But I am a bit more relaxed in my upgrades on my MacBook but still expect new features to be made available to me when they can be (i.e. not restricted by my hardware).

    Are those REALLY such unreasonable expectations for a customer to have???

    Steve J - what do you say???

    /BD
    You feel it doesn't cut it because it doesn't help you at all when a feature is added to an operating system you don't have...if Apple offers a new system, at a RIDICULOUSLY low price, how on earth can you accuse them of treating their customer's unfairly? Have you ever used a Windows based PC? lol...Microsoft's customers wouldn't know what to do with themselves if Bill Gates said "Make Windows 8 thirty bucks...", i think they'd prob all faint in unison.

    Your logic on this matter would be like buying a 2011 Corvette, and in 5 years, falling in love with the style of the 2016 Corvette, but being upset because the 2016 Vette hood wont fit on your car. It's just a non-sensical approach to consumer products...especially in the tech world, where 6 months after something is released it can become completely obsolete.
    01-06-2011 08:26 PM
  8. bikedogrun's Avatar
    Have you ever used a Windows based PC? lol...Microsoft's customers wouldn't know what to do with themselves if Bill Gates said "Make Windows 8 thirty bucks...", i think they'd prob all faint in unison.

    Your logic on this matter would be like buying a 2011 Corvette, and in 5 years, falling in love with the style of the 2016 Corvette, but being upset because the 2016 Vette hood wont fit on your car.
    Nope; comparisons to Windows are irrelevant.

    As to the 'vette (cool car, BTW)... The issue here is that the new hood in your analogy will absolutely fit on my older car (Leopard). Apple CAN release it, they simply choose not to. I really do like to upgrade (iPad & iPod)... I just do not like being forced to if there are new features that can easily be pushed out on my release.

    Is it really 5 yrs since Leopard?

    /BD
    01-06-2011 08:43 PM
  9. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    Well...technically it's about 4 years, but i said "going on" 5 years...Leopard was developed in late 2006/early 2007 and released later that year.

    In this discussion, i have to go back to the fact that Apple has always strived for function over convenience, and in that, for all we know they tested these features on OSX 10.5 and were not 100% on board with performance (both of features and possibly of the computer itself during the function). Nobody will ever know that except for developers...and that is their job, to figure out where the functions work best, and build them in that world.

    And if you want to take that approach in my analogy, i'll retort by saying if the hood DOES fit, GM is simply asking Corvette owners to give $100 for a mounting system (as there is a slight variant and they want to ensure zero vibration problems with the hood on your older generation car). After you pay for the mounting system they will GIVE you the hood for free.
    01-06-2011 08:50 PM
  10. Cleveland's Avatar
    Seriously people, rants about needing snow leopard... it's a whole $30 ******* bucks... minute i found that out last year, i upgraded, I have an original MacBook from 2007, I'll be due for a new one soon, but still... a whole $30 to go from Leopard to SL... quit being greedy, and no references to Windows... Windows is a JOKE, not to mention you have to pay $200 or more for an upgrade every time they come out with one, and for the record, my MacBook came with Tiger, I upgraded to Leopard for a whole $99... really ? and SL then for $30... went to TWO new OS for my Mac for $130... hmmm sounds pretty good to me lol
    01-06-2011 09:43 PM
  11. ghostface147's Avatar
    What??!?!?!?!! How dare certain blu-ray movies not play on my first generation blu-ray player? How dare they screw me like that? I paid chingos for a gen 1 blu ray player and now a few years later I can't watch Avatar? You mean I can't watch 3D movies on my 1 year old LED LCD HDTV? How dare they? I paid thousands for it. Waaah. Get over it.

    Maybe SL has some lower level APIs that the Mac App store has to access that Leopard doesn't have. Maybe certain kernel access that Leopard doesn't have. Who knows? I don't. And you probably don't either.

    My question is, why haven't you upgraded to SL?
    Last edited by ghostface147; 01-06-2011 at 10:41 PM.
    01-06-2011 10:38 PM
  12. jonmark's Avatar

    My question is, why haven't you upgraded to SL?
    When SL was first released I honestly didn't feel like it was something I needed to get. Yes, it had some improvements and it was supposed to speed up processing times and all that. But from the people I talked to, they said their experience with the new OS was minimally different. I'm not one to upgrade for minimals. If there's significant differences and improvements, sure why not.

    My impression, to be completely honest, was that SL was just an improved Leopard, and essentially it was the same OS with a bit more snap. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't know. But I never thought that Apple would be releasing stuff that was ONLY going to be for those who had SL ... and this late in the game, I find it smarter to just not upgrade to SL since Lion is supposed to be out later this year anyways.

    Like I've previously stated, I completely understand Apple not being able to make things compatible for OLDER products and things that have become obsolete .. But when it comes to something that is second to the latest, I feel like they exclude THAT SPECIFIC demographic so much.
    01-07-2011 08:20 AM
  13. ghostface147's Avatar
    ... and this late in the game, I find it smarter to just not upgrade to SL since Lion is supposed to be out later this year anyways.
    Yeah pretty much. It is rather late in the game.
    01-07-2011 09:50 AM
  14. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    So when they start bringing these new and amazing features to Lion, and you still have Leopard, are you going to complain then too? I mean we're only talking a matter of a few months here...no significant amount of time at all based on your logic in this thread...

    Complaining that you can't use features from a newer operating system on an older operating system is just asinine, im sorry.
    01-08-2011 09:09 AM
  15. martinl1989's Avatar
    I was kinda frustrated about this as well, as well as the Facetime for Mac issue... but I have no problem upgrading to Snow Leopard for these products. I've been meaning to upgrade for a while now but now I have another reason (Mac App Store) why I really need to get upgrading! 26 is nothing... so why not.
    01-08-2011 12:23 PM
  16. jonmark's Avatar
    Yea, I'm just gonna wait till Lion is released and upgrade to it, and just deal with how things are until that time comes and keep my frustrations to myself since apparently I'm stupid for having them.
    01-08-2011 03:06 PM
  17. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    Yea, I'm just gonna wait till Lion is released and upgrade to it, and just deal with how things are until that time comes and keep my frustrations to myself since apparently I'm stupid for having them.
    Who said that?
    01-08-2011 07:22 PM
  18. chobbs1's Avatar
    Nevermind the nay sayers guy. You'll begin to notice some of our members enjoy an argument.

    But on another note. My MacBook was built so well that I still am using it five years later. But it has the old processor so it is not compatable with SN. So now I am faced with the prospect of having to ditch a computer that runs great just to get the new features. I just can't justify it, so I continue to use what I got. If computers are going to be outdated so quickly then why not make them a little more...disposable? And charge a little less for them. I like having a quality product but I hate the wasting of perfectly good hardware just because I want the new features. It's kinda a "vicious circle" problem... A quality product that lasts or an affordable product one is able to upgrade often.
    01-08-2011 08:13 PM
  19. jonmark's Avatar
    Yea I hear ya, lol it's like computers depreciate faster than cars. You buy brand new and technology moves so fast that before you know it you're 10 updates behind lol
    01-08-2011 10:49 PM
  20. Fausty82's Avatar
    Nevermind the nay sayers guy. You'll begin to notice some of our members enjoy an argument.

    But on another note. My MacBook was built so well that I still am using it five years later. But it has the old processor so it is not compatable with SN. So now I am faced with the prospect of having to ditch a computer that runs great just to get the new features. I just can't justify it, so I continue to use what I got. If computers are going to be outdated so quickly then why not make them a little more...disposable? And charge a little less for them. I like having a quality product but I hate the wasting of perfectly good hardware just because I want the new features. It's kinda a "vicious circle" problem... A quality product that lasts or an affordable product one is able to upgrade often.
    I totally understand your point of view, and actually, happen to agree with it. Keeping up with the latest and greatest is a losing proposition, anyway. The real issue is that Apple changed their computer line to use the Intel processors rather than the older Motorola chips. Obviously, the Intel processors afford them an opportunity to add features that the Motorola processors cannot support. That, my friend, is the way of the world. But that situation is somewhat unique, and you (and many like you) got caught in the transition.

    The only saving grace in this whole thing is that (1) Macs do retain their value much better than other brands of hardware, and (2) they also seem to retain their ability to perform much better. I just switched from PC to Mac in September, and I love my MBPro... and am confident that the premium price that I paid for it will guarantee me many years of use.
    01-09-2011 12:01 AM
  21. jonmark's Avatar
    I just switched from PC to Mac in September, and I love my MBPro... and am confident that the premium price that I paid for it will guarantee me many years of use.
    Oh it will .. I had a PowerBook for right near seven years with zero problems, and after that point was still able to sell it for over $500. My current MacBook I'm sure will last me a number of years, too. Apple makes quality stuff, which is why I love them. They constantly change, which is hard to keep up with lol.
    01-09-2011 01:29 AM
  22. phonejunky's Avatar
    Or does anyone else feel like Apple kinda screws customers over sometimes? I mean, I love Apple, and yes I own all Apple products, but I do feel sometimes like they only care about the ones who own their latest products while the rest of us are left out to dry (or forced to upgrade).

    Of course, I know that sometimes so upgrades can't go with all models of their products due to software issues ... But this latest release of the app store for Mac, I was pretty excited about and then learned today when it was released that it is only compatible with Snow Leopard 10.6 and higher. I have a fairly new MacBook, maybe about 18 months old (if even) and because I run leopard 10.5, I (along with countless other MacBook users) am left without being able to enjoy the newest released stuff.

    First it was FaceTime for Mac, and now it's the app store for Mac. Not cool.

    Ok, sorry, just had to let that out and rant a little bit. Good day

    I'm going to have to agree with you now that I think about it. Sometimes it does seem like Apple loves their new products way better then assisting those with the old ones.
    01-09-2011 06:25 PM
  23. d8ch's Avatar
    When SL was first released I honestly didn't feel like it was something I needed to get. Yes, it had some improvements and it was supposed to speed up processing times and all that. But from the people I talked to, they said their experience with the new OS was minimally different. I'm not one to upgrade for minimals. If there's significant differences and improvements, sure why not.

    My impression, to be completely honest, was that SL was just an improved Leopard, and essentially it was the same OS with a bit more snap. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't know. But I never thought that Apple would be releasing stuff that was ONLY going to be for those who had SL ... and this late in the game, I find it smarter to just not upgrade to SL since Lion is supposed to be out later this year anyways.

    Like I've previously stated, I completely understand Apple not being able to make things compatible for OLDER products and things that have become obsolete .. But when it comes to something that is second to the latest, I feel like they exclude THAT SPECIFIC demographic so much.
    SL has considerably sped up my 2007 MacBook.. Finder is waaay faster, Expos is way less confusing, the Dock functions waaaay more efficiently (no more 20 minimized windows on my dock, they're all tucked neatly in the app's icon), start up and shut down times are waaay faster, the Quicktime update is pretty nice, etc etc. It's completely worth the $30 freaking bucks.

    I have a hard time feeling for people who whine when a company updates the OS to make YOUR experience better, and then release it for so insanely cheap. I just can't understand it, tbh. And I know what it feels like, as I currently use a BlackBerry Tour, and less than a year after I bought it RIM released OS6 and it's not compatible with my device. Less than ONE year. And I understand. They release the OS updates to make your life better, and if you don't take advantage of it, then it's your loss.

    And we don't know why the Mac App Store isn't on Leopard, but my guess is they had the idea for it when they made SL and incorporated something in the OS that lets it happen, while it can't work in Leopard. And Apple's got a GREAT track record for keeping support up for their devices - my first gen iPod Touch JUST went EOL with 4.0, and i got that thing in 2007. I've yet to find a company that puts that much support into older devices.
    01-09-2011 06:50 PM
  24. Ipheuria's Avatar
    You guys are kidding right? If your newish Macbook couldn't run Snow Leopard ok I would say you had a point but it can you just don't want to load it. I put snow leopard on my 3 and then my 2 year old MBP both work fine. The iPhone platform the 1st gen iPhone was supported up to 3.1.3 from 1.0 how many versions later is that? The 3G is still supported on iOS 4.2, there are Android phones which aren't supported on close firmware versions. Then if you want to go back to computers compare the price of Snow Leopard to Windows 7. You have to remember that Apple is a Company and companies make money by making new products and if you allow support for older hardware and software what will ever get people to upgrade? Then that company you love will be no longer.
    01-09-2011 07:22 PM
  25. GuyZ's Avatar
    Being a developer in a large-scale firm I know how hard it is to maintain previous versions. However, ceasing development and support for a 3 years product is really premature.
    01-10-2011 02:06 AM
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