1. marketsqhero's Avatar
    Ok, so let me get something straight. According to the presentation by SJ and subsequent slides that have been seen, the GSM antenna runs from the bottom lhs, around the bottom left corner, across the bottom, all the way up the rhs, and across the top and stops just to the right of the noise cancelling mic where theres another black band.

    The WiFi antenna starts there and then goes around the top left corner, down the lhs, and meets the GSM antenna at the bottom left corner.

    So:

    a) Why does holding the phone normally not cause the issue? The minute you touch both the lhs (WiFi) and rhs (GSM) (i.e. hold it!) it should in theory short the antennas but this doesnt happen.

    b) Why doesnt touching the black band on the top near the noise cancelling mic exhibit the same behaviour as the bottom left black band. As far as I know this should be indentical as its where the two antennas meet also.

    So I call bull on the fact that shorting the antennas is the problem as it doesnt happen on other places on the phone where you should be able to.

    Obviously there is some issue (not as big as people are making out) which is specific to that bottom corner, but I don't believe for one minute that it's actually a fault in the antenna design as it would exhibit the same behaviour when touching the phone elsewhere.
    Last edited by marketsqhero; 07-14-2010 at 06:33 AM.
    07-14-2010 06:16 AM
  2. chippy19977's Avatar
    That's what I don't understand either, but I'm far from an expert when it comes to these things. I'm still not sold on a hardware issue. But I wouldn't be surprised if it is. I just don't know at this point. It's really frustrating!
    07-14-2010 07:03 AM
  3. stkywik's Avatar
    Actually, the band is split up into three different antennas. The GSM antenna starts in the lower left corner and moves around the bottom side of the phone where it terminates in a black band directly across from the infamous black band in the lower left corner. In the end, though, I get your point. From a logical layman's point of view, it should be able to be replicated at the other end of the antenna as well. I'm sure there is some complicated engineering explanation, but I don't know what it is.
    07-14-2010 07:30 AM
  4. marketsqhero's Avatar
    No, I just had a quick look back at the keynote and at about 34 mins in you can see the slide that shows the two antennas. The right side (the one with the SIM card slot) and bottom of the phone is actually one piece for the UMTS and GSM antenna. And the left side piece is for Bluetooth, Wi-FI and GPS.

    It seems the black bar on the rhs is just decorative to match up to the actual separator on the other side.
    07-14-2010 08:21 AM
  5. jakej914's Avatar
    I still think if you're in an area with crappy reception, you're going to have problems associated with holding the antenna in various ways. I have strong reception where I live and can almost never replicate this problem. The fact of the matter remains that Apple should have coated the antenna. Whether they're going to do something about it remains a mystery.
    07-14-2010 09:24 AM
  6. stkywik's Avatar
    I could almost sware that I saw that it was split into three different antennas. Oh well, I can't watch the video while at work. Maybe the answer is the "dummy" band in the lower right corner? Maybe it acts as an insulator in some way that stops the bridging effect at the top of the phone. I don't know.
    07-14-2010 09:43 AM
  7. Fausty82's Avatar
    There are only two antennae on the iPhone4. There band on the lower right side is purely decorative - there's a groove where the decorative band is inserted...
    07-14-2010 10:16 AM
  8. marketsqhero's Avatar
    There are only two antennae on the iPhone4. There band on the lower right side is purely decorative - there's a groove where the decorative band is inserted...
    Yup, that's the slide.

    So then, how come if the antenna design is flawed do you not get attenuation when touching the black band at the top as this should have the same effect as the one at the bottom as it's the "joint",

    In fact touching the left side and right side together should in theory cause the same issue as you're touching both antennas.

    Has anyone stripped one of these down yet? I wonder if it's more related to the placement of a component in that lower left corner rather than the actual bands on the outside as it makes no sense otherwise.
    07-14-2010 10:46 AM
  9. ghostface147's Avatar
    So then, how come if the antenna design is flawed do you not get attenuation when touching the black band at the top as this should have the same effect as the one at the bottom as it's the "joint"
    FCC regulations prohibit the antenna/radios to be placed at the top of the phone. It must be down at the bottom. That is why there is no attenuation at the top. The radios are located inside the phone at the bottom.
    07-14-2010 10:58 AM
  10. marketsqhero's Avatar
    So your saying the slide SJ showed is wrong?
    07-14-2010 11:06 AM
  11. macharborguy's Avatar
    honestly, i think the whole thing is a crock of crap and PR (because even bad news is good news), and it will all be a non-issue once the patch comes out. after all, it's MAGICTASTICAL

    either way, i had a case on my iPhone 4 from day one, and will continue to do so, making the issues non-existant for me.
    07-14-2010 11:16 AM
  12. ghostface147's Avatar
    So your saying the slide SJ showed is wrong?
    Not at all. The band is the antenna, but the radios are a different component.
    07-14-2010 11:24 AM
  13. marketsqhero's Avatar
    Ok, so we're in agreement then that it actually is nothing to do with the antenna (steel band), but more likely the placement of the GSM/UTMS radio?

    In which case why do people "believe" a bumper or case is the answer as that doesn't affect where the radio is.

    I think people see what they think they see, possibly the bumper is a placebo effect nothing more.
    07-14-2010 11:27 AM
  14. ghostface147's Avatar
    The antenna is directly related to the radio. The radio processes the signal based upon the antenna's ability to work with the signal. You impede the antenna, the radio doesn't work or it's usefullness declines. You use a case or bumper to shield the antenna, radio works better since there is nothing impeding it.
    07-14-2010 11:30 AM
  15. marketsqhero's Avatar
    But the antenna only exhibits this behaviour in a 2mm section of the whole band. Why does it not happen anywhere else, it should happen anywhere you can short the two antennas (i.e. everywhere!)
    07-14-2010 11:36 AM
  16. macharborguy's Avatar
    I took a metal key, had it touch the two bands together, each contact point was about a half an inch away from the black band, up and down.

    After about 10 seconds, the bars went from 5 to 1, and my Wifi dropped and reverted to Edge.

    It is not simply the 2mm near the black band

    i was not touching the phone the whole time that the key was touching it. i had the iPhone standing on it's bottom (dock connector area), with the key leaning against it.
    07-14-2010 12:45 PM
  17. noaim's Avatar
    it is a hardware problem no matter what way you try and word it its a hardware problem
    07-14-2010 03:46 PM
  18. marketsqhero's Avatar
    I took a metal key, had it touch the two bands together, each contact point was about a half an inch away from the black band, up and down.

    After about 10 seconds, the bars went from 5 to 1, and my Wifi dropped and reverted to Edge.

    It is not simply the 2mm near the black band

    i was not touching the phone the whole time that the key was touching it. i had the iPhone standing on it's bottom (dock connector area), with the key leaning against it.
    Useful, is that the kind of scenario you find yourself in on a daily basis?
    07-14-2010 03:57 PM
  19. Dphone's Avatar
    it is a hardware problem no matter what way you try and word it its a hardware problem
    My words exactly, why do we try and defend Apple so much. It's a great phone but it has a flaw. Is it so hard to accept ? Just fix it. I still love my iFlaw, I mean iPhone.
    07-14-2010 08:35 PM
  20. macharborguy's Avatar
    Useful, is that the kind of scenario you find yourself in on a daily basis?
    just showing that the bridging of the antennas does not HAVE to be right at the black band on the lower left, NOR do you have to do the grip of death, as simply bridging the bands with a thin, conductive object, can cause issues.
    07-14-2010 08:40 PM
  21. noaim's Avatar
    My words exactly, why do we try and defend Apple so much. It's a great phone but it has a flaw. Is it so hard to accept ? Just fix it. I still love my iFlaw, I mean iPhone.
    I agree with this completely why defend apple they screwed this one up its unfortunate but they did
    07-14-2010 10:54 PM
  22. marketsqhero's Avatar
    just showing that the bridging of the antennas does not HAVE to be right at the black band on the lower left, NOR do you have to do the grip of death, as simply bridging the bands with a thin, conductive object, can cause issues.
    Except it doesn't as already proven.

    Touch the band on the lhs and the band on the rhs and it won't have any effect. Touch the bands near the top where they join and it has no effect.

    The only place it has an effect is in the bottom lh corner which makes me believe it's more likely to be something related to a component down there rather than the actual bands per se.

    I'ts NOT going to be fixed, it's part of the design of the iPhone4, it will probably be modified slightly in the 4Gs/5 released in June next year.

    Apple will not change their refresh schedule to fix something affecting less than 1% of users.

    If you're not happy with it take it back for a full refund, that's Apples offer, take it or leave it, but stop whinging about it!
    07-15-2010 04:07 AM
  23. noaim's Avatar
    Except it doesn't as already proven.

    Touch the band on the lhs and the band on the rhs and it won't have any effect. Touch the bands near the top where they join and it has no effect.

    The only place it has an effect is in the bottom lh corner which makes me believe it's more likely to be something related to a component down there rather than the actual bands per se.

    I'ts NOT going to be fixed, it's part of the design of the iPhone4, it will probably be modified slightly in the 4Gs/5 released in June next year.

    Apple will not change their refresh schedule to fix something affecting less than 1% of users.

    If you're not happy with it take it back for a full refund, that's Apples offer, take it or leave it, but stop whinging about it!
    its affecting more then 1 percent of users man
    07-15-2010 11:42 AM
  24. marketsqhero's Avatar
    Really, they've sold over 2 million phones.

    1% of those would be 20,000 users. Have Apple had to swap out 20,000 phones? There's only 1,000ish complaints on Apples own website.

    Show me figures that there's over 20,000 complaining and I'll believe it, but for now I see a few thousand complaints. It's a drop in the ocean to what they've sold and important bit are STILL selling!
    07-15-2010 11:47 AM
  25. OTACORB's Avatar

    Apple will not change their refresh schedule to fix something affecting less than 1% of users.

    If you're not happy with it take it back for a full refund, that's Apples offer, take it or leave it, but stop whinging about it!
    Please provide us the source of your 1%. Is that a number you just grabbed out of your ***?

    I am not going to stop making this an issue and other consumers will not either. Bring it back and shut the hell up just isn't going to cut it.

    If you don't like the fact that some complain, then that is about you. Folks that want and spend their money on this phone absolutely have a right to expect it to work as promised. Remember Better Reception statement made by Jobs.

    Some of you that haven't seen the issue are clearly in denial yourselves. I bet if I had your phone in my area, I could replicate the issue without question.
    07-15-2010 11:52 AM
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