1. JustinHorn's Avatar
    What if they seamlessly switch to a band where that 20db drop doesn't matter? Calls still clear, data still fast (if not the theoretical maximum)?
    Technically it doesn't matter now. Even with 1 bar *most* of the time I can complete calls just fine. Just like they said in the AnandTech article today that even with 1 bar they had better call quality than they did previously at 1 bar on the 3GS.

    I'm just saying a software fix can make this issue practically irrelevant.
    My issue isn't so much about the calls though, I rarely use my iPhone to make calls. My problem is that 20 dB drop, even if I'm still in the 5 bar range, will lower my 3G data speed from something amazing to something meh.

    The only software solution I can see that would help this is just cranking up the output power to compensate for the absorption in the hand.

    @Jeff
    People seem to be ignoring whenever I tell them this now happens on my 3GS. It's never happened before, I am completely OCD about tiny things like this, so I would notice if this were happening before. It even happens when I hold it on the LEFT side, just like iPhone 4!

    If iOS 4 can create this issue, it can certainly be removed with firmware as well.
    I think they adjusted where the bars break down vs the actual numeric dB. They could adjust this, but this wouldn't have any affect on the underlying problem.

    Look how much the actual dBs drop in the 3GS compared to the 4.



    3GS drops 2 dB and iPhone 4 drops 20 dB...that ain't software.
    07-01-2010 01:06 AM
  2. jhamilton3's Avatar
    Technically it doesn't matter now. Even with 1 bar *most* of the time I can complete calls just fine. Just like they said in the AnandTech article today that even with 1 bar they had better call quality than they did previously at 1 bar on the 3GS.



    My issue isn't so much about the calls though, I rarely use my iPhone to make calls. My problem is that 20 dB drop, even if I'm still in the 5 bar range, will lower my 3G data speed from something amazing to something meh.

    The only software solution I can see that would help this is just cranking up the output power to compensate for the absorption in the hand.



    I think they adjusted where the bars break down vs the actual numeric dB. They could adjust this, but this wouldn't have any affect on the underlying problem.

    Look how much the actual dBs drop in the 3GS compared to the 4.



    3GS drops 2 dB and iPhone 4 drops 20 dB...that ain't software.
    So you don't think a software fix is coming?

    I have a bad feeling its not..
    07-01-2010 01:11 AM
  3. JustinHorn's Avatar
    So you don't think a software fix is coming?

    I have a bad feeling its not..
    I think they might release something that will maybe adjust how the bars are displayed compared to the underlying signal to give you a more accurate idea of your real signal. They may even boost the power output to overcome the dB drop.

    I just don't see any software coming out that will be a fix that will keep the phone from dropping 20 dB in signal strength just by touching the bottom left area of the phone with ONE finger.
    07-01-2010 01:18 AM
  4. big9erfan's Avatar
    I just don't see any software coming out that will be a fix that will keep the phone from dropping 20 dB in signal strength just by touching the bottom left area of the phone with ONE finger.
    This.

    It's a hardware flaw. Yes, almost all cellphones today have the antenna in the bottom of the device ( to pass FCC tests ). Most phones have an internal loop. Apple decided to go with an external loop, totally missing about 1/2 the population that holds the phone in their left hand making that "one" part of the phone easily touched and the signal interfered with. There's no software change this is going to "fix" the body of a human being from being able to "short" the two antennas changing the wavelength it was optimized to pick-up.
    07-01-2010 01:25 AM
  5. jhamilton3's Avatar
    I think they might release something that will maybe adjust how the bars are displayed compared to the underlying signal to give you a more accurate idea of your real signal. They may even boost the power output to overcome the dB drop.

    I just don't see any software coming out that will be a fix that will keep the phone from dropping 20 dB in signal strength just by touching the bottom left area of the phone with ONE finger.
    Yiiiikes.. this is what I was afraid of when I heard the issue.

    My bumper needs to get here before July 16th..
    07-01-2010 01:48 AM
  6. micky_rooney's Avatar
    I'm also a user who doesn't seem to believe that a software update is going to solve these issues. The phone itself is the issue and we'll just have to get on with it really, maybe minor solutions and what knot could be issued but that will be about it imo.

    I think Apple will look to address this by changing the hardware in future models which I certainly would be quite soon..
    07-01-2010 08:42 AM
  7. clg82's Avatar
    This.

    It's a hardware flaw. Yes, almost all cellphones today have the antenna in the bottom of the device ( to pass FCC tests ). Most phones have an internal loop. Apple decided to go with an external loop, totally missing about 1/2 the population that holds the phone in their left hand making that "one" part of the phone easily touched and the signal interfered with. There's no software change this is going to "fix" the body of a human being from being able to "short" the two antennas changing the wavelength it was optimized to pick-up.
    So why not issue a recall so they can fix this problem?
    07-01-2010 09:03 AM
  8. JustinHorn's Avatar
    So why not issue a recall so they can fix this problem?
    Because then AAPL goes down and Steve makes no money.
    07-01-2010 09:12 AM
  9. clg82's Avatar
    Because then AAPL goes down and Steve makes no money.
    Well from what Jello said the same thing is happening to his old phone after the iOs4 install so hopefully that has something to do with it......HOPEFULLY
    07-01-2010 09:13 AM
  10. JustinHorn's Avatar
    There was rumors of an update coming this week, still hasn't happen so I'm even doubting that is going to happen this week. There are other bugs though, like the proximity sensor so I think they will have to release a bugfix 4.0.1, but I guess they are going to take their time.
    07-01-2010 09:25 AM
  11. Ipheuria's Avatar
    I know every user is different and I'm probably not a hardcore user but I just don't understand why so many users just HAVE to hold the phone that way? I know it's your choice and you should be able to but if there's a problem when you do it why not put it in your pocket and use the headphones that come with it until the problem is resolved? I think it's like you know walking down road B a bully will beat your *** and walking down road A you'll get to your destination safe, so until the cops catch the bully why not take road A? instead you say well I should be able to walk wherever I want it's my choice and then complain when the bully beats your ***. I don't know if the problem happens using the headphones too I'm in Canada so we don't have it yet. So I'm not crazily keeping track of the problem. I just think if it really affects someone that much take it back if not try to workaround it until they figure out how to fix the problem.

    The Android thing I understand why Jellotime compared it to them, they are the only current smartphones most competitive with the iPhone. I don't have any problems with the users because I don't know any personally. I don't go to their forums because I don't own one and I'm not curious about them. I have a problem with the companies because of their ads. There has never been an iPhone ad saying things like droid does what we do better or something like that and yet droid ads are constantly coming out with things like our two peice antennae works when you hold it. I just find it petty and would never buy one from a company that markets like that.
    07-01-2010 09:42 AM
  12. BLiNK's Avatar
    But Jello i'm not so sure that it is an AT&T issue with their signals. Like I stated I NEVER had this problem with my 3g.
    i think whmurray explained this one rather well:

    There are really two AT&T service levels. There is old AT&T Wireless, the first wireless carrier to roll out 3G. There service was very good but they had minimal coverage, a few major markets. They, along with the brand, were acquired by Cingular. The coverage went up dramatically but the service dropped. The combined companies were, and remain, far behind Verizon and Sprint in 3G coverage. They advertise that they cover 97% of the population. However, as the (Verizon) ad shows, their 3G coverage of the geography is far less than that of Verizon.

    Even for the 3% percent of us who travel a lot and really worry about broad coverage, local service trumps everything. However, one should not project one's local coverage or service on the rest of the world. There are still two AT&Ts.

    Those who happen to be in the old AT&T market area should count their blessings but they should not gloat.
    07-01-2010 10:17 AM
  13. Xm_jdm's Avatar
    I have tried replicating the issue with reception. I have no issues. Weird.
    07-01-2010 10:29 AM
  14. joec222's Avatar
    It is so difficult to understand why those of you defending apple on this issue can't understand that regardless of all the claims that the 4g has better signal performance, it does not work for many users. It kind of reminds me of the health care issue- I have it - don't care about anyone else.

    To defend a phone that does not work for almost half the users is just dumb.

    If apple does not fix this problem by July 15th., lots more droid x's will be sold.
    07-01-2010 10:55 AM
  15. liggitt's Avatar
    It is absolutely an issue. When Im not holding the phone, I have 5 bars. When I hold the phone normally (not smothering it or intentionally holding it tightly) it eventually drops to No service. If Im on a phone call, its not as big a deal since I can intentionally hold it with just my fingertips, but if Im using an app, the phone drops service, I wont receive calls, and I wont even realize it if the app hides the status bar.
    07-01-2010 10:55 AM
  16. clg82's Avatar
    It is absolutely an issue. When Im not holding the phone, I have 5 bars. When I hold the phone normally (not smothering it or intentionally holding it tightly) it eventually drops to No service. If Im on a phone call, its not as big a deal since I can intentionally hold it with just my fingertips, but if Im using an app, the phone drops service, I wont receive calls, and I wont even realize it if the app hides the status bar.
    LOL but we shouldn't have to hold our phones with our fingertips. We never used to have to with our old iphones so why should this one be any different?! The only reason other people are mad we're complaining is because it doesn't affect them so they don't care!
    07-01-2010 11:22 AM
  17. mpaquette's Avatar
    It is so difficult to understand why those of you defending apple on this issue can't understand that regardless of all the claims that the 4g has better signal performance, it does not work for many users. It kind of reminds me of the health care issue- I have it - don't care about anyone else.

    To defend a phone that does not work for almost half the users is just dumb.

    If apple does not fix this problem by July 15th., lots more droid x's will be sold.
    Really, almost half? Did you take a scientific poll or something?
    07-01-2010 11:23 AM
  18. clg82's Avatar
    Really, almost half? Did you take a scientific poll or something?
    How do you know that it's not half.......
    07-01-2010 11:24 AM
  19. abunk79's Avatar
    Anyone tested 3G signal vs EDGE to see if the problems are any different? I have had my 3g for 15months and have turned the 3G capability on maybe a handful of times. I mostly use wifi for data and have found that 3G signal is easily manipulated compared to EDGE. I can talk inside a metal building on EDGE, but lose 3G signal in Walmart, switch the 3G off and I get 3 bars on EDGE.
    07-01-2010 11:28 AM
  20. mpaquette's Avatar
    How do you know that it's not half.......
    Never said that. Thanks for putting words in my mouth.
    07-01-2010 01:36 PM
  21. Ipheuria's Avatar
    It is so difficult to understand why those of you defending apple on this issue can't understand that regardless of all the claims that the 4g has better signal performance, it does not work for many users. It kind of reminds me of the health care issue- I have it - don't care about anyone else.

    To defend a phone that does not work for almost half the users is just dumb.

    If apple does not fix this problem by July 15th., lots more droid x's will be sold.
    No one is defending Apple they are giving their opinion on the issue. Now to saw defending the phone is dumb, why is that?? no one forces half the users to keep the phone there are other phones out there if it bothers them so much take it back or sell it and buy another phone.
    07-01-2010 01:45 PM
  22. Jeff Kirvin#IM's Avatar
    Okay, I finally dropped a call due to this issue. I touched the lower left of the phone, and the call dropped.

    In an underground parking garage.
    07-01-2010 01:52 PM
  23. John T's Avatar
    It is so difficult to understand why those of you defending apple on this issue can't understand that regardless of all the claims that the 4g has better signal performance, it does not work for many users.
    Only if they hold it in a certain way! Many users have found it works fine for them!

    To defend a phone that does not work for almost half the users is just dumb.

    Where did you get this statistic from? Never use a statement such as this without evidence to back it up!

    apple does not fix this problem by July 15th., lots more droid x's will be sold.
    Again - evidence?!

    Of course, if you really want people to take your post seriously, it's best to preface your "statements with something like "In my humble opinion" which, after all, is what it is!!
    Last edited by John T; 07-01-2010 at 07:24 PM.
    07-01-2010 07:21 PM
  24. Mustang5Oh's Avatar
    This is not an iPhone 4 issue! My friend has a 3GS with iOS 4 and I held his phone today in a class we are taking and his signal dropped just like it does on the iPhone 4. You can't tell me that it's a phone issue when the 3GS does the same thing. I really really believe its the baseband in the new OS not switching fast enough when signal gets lower. If it was a hardware issue then the 3GS wouldn't do this!

    Also I agree with those who say no one is forcing anyone to keep the phone. I believe we all have what...14 or 30 days to return if you aren't happy? Take it back and stop crying!
    07-01-2010 07:42 PM
  25. JustinHorn's Avatar
    This is not an iPhone 4 issue! My friend has a 3GS with iOS 4 and I held his phone today in a class we are taking and his signal dropped just like it does on the iPhone 4.
    It's a phone issue b/c not holding it, but touching with just the tip of one finger to the connection point between the 2 antennas on the bottom left causes a significant drop in signal.

    If anyone can show me a drop like that on a 3GS, I'd love to see it.
    07-01-2010 07:46 PM
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