View Poll Results: Is Apple Getting Negative Attention For This?

Voters
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  • Yes they look are starting to look bad.

    32 55.17%
  • No they are the victims they should pursue Gizmodo.

    26 44.83%
  1. Alli's Avatar
    I love how you have determined that Powell was drunk. Did you perform the breath analysis yourself? Maybe do an actual blood test? Do tell! You're what, 18? So you know all about how much every individual can drink and what it takes for someone to get drunk. But you get the Olympic Gold in the Conclusion jumping event!
    04-30-2010 11:55 PM
  2. Jellotime91's Avatar
    I love how you have determined that Powell was drunk. Did you perform the breath analysis yourself? Maybe do an actual blood test? Do tell! You're what, 18? So you know all about how much every individual can drink and what it takes for someone to get drunk. But you get the Olympic Gold in the Conclusion jumping event!
    Regardless of whether he was drunk or not, he made the mistake. By saying he was drunk I was giving him the benefit of the doubt, because if he wasn't drunk he was just really freaking stupid. Have to say, I've never left my iPhone anywhere, and it's not a secret iPhone prototype that I've been trusted with. :/
    05-01-2010 12:15 AM
  3. iBoxtaboy's Avatar
    Again, if you get careless, you pay the price. Let's say I mistakenly left my iPhone in the backseat of a cab... It would be really nice if the cabbie or the next passenger calls me to graciously return it, but I wouldn't be totally shocked if my misplaced phone gets sold off illegally. Is it right? No. Do I blame the person who sold my phone without my permission? No. I can only blame myself for being careless enough to lose it in the first place. You can't expect people to do the right thing. You have to be prepared to pay for your mistakes. It'll make you more careful the next time. A good lesson in fact.
    05-01-2010 08:31 AM
  4. lungho's Avatar
    Again, if you get careless, you pay the price. Let's say I mistakenly left my iPhone in the backseat of a cab... It would be really nice if the cabbie or the next passenger calls me to graciously return it, but I wouldn't be totally shocked if my misplaced phone gets sold off illegally. Is it right? No. Do I blame the person who sold my phone without my permission? No. I can only blame myself for being careless enough to lose it in the first place. You can't expect people to do the right thing. You have to be prepared to pay for your mistakes. It'll make you more careful the next time. A good lesson in fact.
    Thank you for injecting some common sense into this debate. It's much appreciated!
    05-01-2010 09:43 AM
  5. cjvitek's Avatar
    Previous response was was based on a misinterpreted post.

    I was objecting to calling Powell a "victim" in the sense that something had happened to him over which he had no control. He made a mistake, but it was his fault (leaving the iPhone there). In that sense he is not a "victim" - but that doesn't justify the actions of Hogan either.
    Last edited by cjvitek; 05-01-2010 at 12:49 PM.
    05-01-2010 10:16 AM
  6. cjvitek's Avatar
    From what I have read, there are a few issues.

    First, it appears that according to California law, if you find something and have a reasonable opportunity/ability to return it to the rightful owner, your are obligated to do so. This is not the law in other states, where basically you have "finders keepers". If you do not try to return it in California, then it is stolen property (from what I can determine).

    Now, for Gizmodo, ultimately it depends what they guy who sold it to them said. If he told them he tried to return it to Apple and Apple did not claim it, then didn't they guy make a "reasonable attempt" to return it (or at least claim to)? If so, then it would no longer be stolen property. On the other hand, if they guy just said "I found this iPhone prototype in a bar, what to buy it?" then no reasonable attempt was made, and it would be considered stolen (and Gizmodo should not have bought it.).

    So without know exactly what the guy who found the iPhone claimed to have done, we can't really place judgement on Gizmodo. When Apple finally did say it was theirs, Gizmodo returned it without question. From what I can understand, when Gizmodo got the phone, it was already "bricked", so Gizmodo didn't have any way of finding the actual owner (other than it just being an Apple prototype).

    Personally, I think the guy who found the phone is more at fault than Gizmodo, given California law and simply ethics. He knew who the phone belonged to (both the engineer and the company). He says he made no attempt to return it (he "thought" about calling Apple, or something like that) and instead arranged to sell the phone to someone. The bartender says the engineer returned repeatedly asking about the phone. The guy knew the engineers name, yet never tried to contact him.

    Regardless of what he told Gizmodo, according to California law, he was selling a stolen device. At best he simply didn't know about California law (and he should have looked into it before he did anything). At worst he knowingly ignored the law. Either way, he didn't seem to behave very ethically.


    Chris
    05-01-2010 10:27 AM
  7. Alli's Avatar
    Let me get this straight....

    All accidents = careless mistakes = fault/blame.

    This whole thread is reminding me of the old justification for rape - the woman enticed the assailant by wearing a skirt. Give me a break.

    People know what's right and wrong. Finders are not keepers. A loss may not make you a victim, but if you keep something you find that does not belong to you, it does make you a thief.
    05-01-2010 11:18 AM
  8. cjvitek's Avatar
    If someone make a careless mistake, it is still their fault. It may have been an accident, but they still did it. IMO, that is a separate issue as to what happened AFTER the phone was lost, and Powell can't be blamed for what happened afterwards.

    Legally, however, "lost and found" laws vary from state to state. I believe most states require some sort of attempt, but it can be as minor as simply posting a message in the classified in the newspaper. In some states (like CA) you are required by law to make a significant attempt to return property.

    You can certainly argue that ethically someone should always make a strong attempt to return found property. I would agree whole heartedly with that. And it looks like Brian Hogan made a half-hearted attempt at best to return it.

    BTW, rereading my previous post, I see I mistyped and it came off incorrectly. I have correct it.


    Chris
    Last edited by cjvitek; 05-01-2010 at 12:51 PM.
    05-01-2010 12:46 PM
  9. iquinn's Avatar
    Let me get this straight....

    All accidents = careless mistakes = fault/blame.

    This whole thread is reminding me of the old justification for rape - the woman enticed the assailant by wearing a skirt. Give me a break.

    People know what's right and wrong. Finders are not keepers. A loss may not make you a victim, but if you keep something you find that does not belong to you, it does make you a thief.
    Thank you for saying that, I was going to say almost the same thing, but I didn't want to go there. I agree what you are saying about blame the victim and there are way to many people on this thread who don't have clue as to who is really to blame in this situation.
    05-01-2010 02:01 PM
  10. Alli's Avatar
    I'm more concerned that there are so many people simply willing to lay blame on anyone. when did we gain the right to do that?
    05-01-2010 05:38 PM
  11. Mustang5Oh's Avatar
    Let me get this straight....

    All accidents = careless mistakes = fault/blame.

    This whole thread is reminding me of the old justification for rape - the woman enticed the assailant by wearing a skirt. Give me a break.

    People know what's right and wrong. Finders are not keepers. A loss may not make you a victim, but if you keep something you find that does not belong to you, it does make you a thief.
    Agreed 100%. If I left my iPhone anywhere I would be absolutely pissed if the person who found it just either kept it for themselves or sold it to make money. If I find something I always try to find the owner. I have found credit cards and wallets and a phone and NEVER even once thought about keeping any of it. Even if I just turn it into an employee at the store/establishment I found it in at least I can rest assured that I did the RIGHT thing and attempted to get the item(s) back to their RIGHTFUL owner!
    05-01-2010 06:05 PM
  12. whmurray's Avatar
    I'm more concerned that there are so many people simply willing to lay blame on anyone. when did we gain the right to do that?
    Concur.

    As in many situations, there is more than enough culpability to go around without our adding to it.
    05-02-2010 10:24 PM
  13. whmurray's Avatar
    Agreed 100%. If I left my iPhone anywhere I would be absolutely pissed if the person who found it just either kept it for themselves or sold it to make money. If I find something I always try to find the owner. I have found credit cards and wallets and a phone and NEVER even once thought about keeping any of it. Even if I just turn it into an employee at the store/establishment I found it in at least I can rest assured that I did the RIGHT thing and attempted to get the item(s) back to their RIGHTFUL owner!
    I suggest that if you want to lose anything, that you do it in New Hampshire. Perhaps I have pushed my luck but I have lost two wallets, a pair of ski boots, and a camera in New Hampshire. All were returned to me in tact within minutes to hours. Well, the ski boots took a little longer because I did not miss them for three weeks.

    Let me tell you about Hercules LeMieux. Herc was my hero and I never miss the opportunity to tell his story. It was New Years Day and we were returning from our Christmas ski week. My goddaughter drove down the mountain. At the bottom we stopped for gas. Nicole asked if I would drive so that she could sleep. As we started out of town, I realized that there was something wrong with the brakes. To make a long story short, two hours later, my brakes were fixed. Herc had the knowledge, skill, ability, tools, and inclination to fix my brakes at 4pm on New Years Day. When we went to settle, he said, "How about $20 bucks?" I paid him $60- and felt guilty all the way to Boston. When I got home I sent him a check made out to his "favorite charity." The charity turned out to be the local hospital where he was to die four years later.

    [Forty miles to the East and I would have been in Maine, known for taking advantage of flat-landers with problems. If you should lose your iPhone, hope that you are in New Hampshire.]

    Herc is my hero. He deserves to have his story told. Thanks for indulging me while I tell it one more time.
    Last edited by whmurray; 05-02-2010 at 10:51 PM.
    05-02-2010 10:48 PM
  14. robertpetry's Avatar
    ....
    Personally, I think the guy who found the phone is more at fault than Gizmodo, given California law and simply ethics. He knew who the phone belonged to (both the engineer and the company). He says he made no attempt to return it (he "thought" about calling Apple, or something like that) and instead arranged to sell the phone to someone. The bartender says the engineer returned repeatedly asking about the phone. The guy knew the engineers name, yet never tried to contact him.

    Regardless of what he told Gizmodo, according to California law, he was selling a stolen device. At best he simply didn't know about California law (and he should have looked into it before he did anything). At worst he knowingly ignored the law. Either way, he didn't seem to behave very ethically.


    Chris
    While I agree with you overall point you have a factual error. He and his roommate called Applecare and opened a ticket. They claimed they had a prototype iPhone that was left in a bar and wanted to know if Apple wanted it back. Obviously Applecare is not the best place to call. And not letting the bar know that they had it or calling the corporate office or heck, even emailing sjobs @ Apple . com shows they were not too interested in giving it back.

    I don't know if he knew the name of the engineer either. He said the saw the Facebook page on the phone before he went to bed but it was wiped when he got up. He may or may not have remembered it.

    Regardless, he obviously didn't try very hard to give it back to Apple and that was a mistake.

    NONE of this excuses Apple from their horrible behavior however. They didn't report it stolen until it showed up on Gizmodo nearly a month after the loss. They called the DA and local police to encourage them to investigate. They even sent a private team to the guy's house and pressured his roommate to let them search the place - AFTER the phone had been returned.

    Folks, the only thing that scares me more than government harassment is corporate harassment. That is totally unacceptable.
    05-03-2010 11:18 AM
  15. whmurray's Avatar
    ?.......................
    Folks, the only thing that scares me more than government harassment is corporate harassment. That is totally unacceptable.
    One can look to the government for protection from corporate thugs. One has only the thin veil of the law to protect from the government. I'll take Apple over the Secret Service any time.
    05-03-2010 11:40 AM
  16. lungho's Avatar
    One can look to the government for protection from corporate thugs. One has only the thin veil of the law to protect from the government. I'll take Apple over the Secret Service any time.
    Amen to that!
    05-03-2010 12:07 PM
  17. cjvitek's Avatar
    While I agree with you overall point you have a factual error. He and his roommate called Applecare and opened a ticket. They claimed they had a prototype iPhone that was left in a bar and wanted to know if Apple wanted it back. Obviously Applecare is not the best place to call. And not letting the bar know that they had it or calling the corporate office or heck, even emailing sjobs @ Apple . com shows they were not too interested in giving it back.
    My mistake. I thought I read somewhere that he "thought" about contacting Apple, but never did.

    Chris
    05-03-2010 12:14 PM
  18. killthelights32's Avatar
    Well put. I agree 100%

    Apple isn't "going after" gizmodo, the police are merely investigating the facts to see if a crime was committed in the state of CA.

    The public probably doesn't care either way. And outside of tech blogs they have probably forgotten about the details and exactly what went down.

    The only real issue that remains is that an Apple prototype has been seen by their competitors. Apple releases one iPhone per year which in cell phone years is extremely slow. Pretty much all other companies release several magnitudes more than one in a single year, often dozens. This has given them a clear picture of the new iPhone months before it's release and could put Apple at a disadvantage instead of an advantage by keeping their cards hidden. People complain all the time about the lack of the front camera, but really how many other phones have one when you walk into AT&T/Verizon/Tmobile/Sprint store? As far as I know right now it's zero. Now they all know it's likely the next iPhone is going to have it; "finally" the way some people make it out. And you can be sure maybe even before the new iPhone comes out that there are now going to be phones with that. This could also now effectively kill 3GS sales, someone who isn't "in the know" might have walked into a store tomorrow and bought one. But they could have seen this story picked up by CNN or a major media outlet and now they know a new one is coming soon so they just wait. Apple could have millions of 3GS models just sitting around because now everyone knows a new one is for sure coming and they have seen it.

    The public knows what the iPhone is and who Apple is, they probably don't care about some tech blog. They are going to buy a cell phone anyway.
    05-10-2010 01:06 AM
  19. djayme7's Avatar
    it was a crime. if their intent were anything else, $5,000 dollars would not have changed hands and apple would have gotten the phone back pronto!
    05-10-2010 11:52 PM
  20. bilbothejust's Avatar
    Ifnyou find a phone you look for the owner in the contacts and CALL him/her. End of drama. 5k$ for a phone is getting a scoop. Do u pay for the scoop with jail time? Sometimes yes.
    05-11-2010 01:23 AM
  21. Jellotime91's Avatar
    Personally I think apple is making way to big of deal about all this, yea there phone got leaked out early big deal look at all the free press they got for it. They tell google not to be evil yet they kick the door down at the home of the Gizmodo writer. Yes I think they should have given the phone back to apple and they did but I don't think them posting the photos and videos of a phone that would not boot up is that big of a crime apple could have played this way smoother IMO
    Apple isn't publicly acknowledging it AT ALL, how are they making way too big of a deal about it? They haven't made a deal about it period.
    05-13-2010 08:43 PM
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