1. Jerry-O's Avatar
    (Lets not let this thread diminish into name calling or an apple VS pc war)

    Until recently I have never owned an apple product. I am strongly opposed to their closed business model. I understand about the user experience, security, and all of that, but above all I support openness so I use a PC (2 actually 1 windows and 1 ubuntu). Whether or not you agree with me is irrelevant, but I wanted give you my mindset.

    Then I purchased a 2nd gen iPod. After all of my research it was the best MP3 player on the market and since it is a standalone device my conscious was ok with it. It exceeded all of my expectations and I love it so I figured it is time to branch out and get my first iPhone in June/July when the Gen 4 comes out.

    Unfortunately with all of the recent apple news all of the horrible closed business model thoughts have come back. The iPhone is not a dumb 1 function device like my iPod it is now practically a computer. Apple has started censoring the material in their app store, they have locked out flash, tethering, etc and now not allowing cross platform developed apps this is getting bad

    but the iPhone seems to fit all of my needs where my BB does not and android is close, maybe even superior in IMHO, but every tom, ****, and harry has a different android phone so who knows If what I get today will work with some software change tomorrow. (It is not quite like winnows yet where the user experience is consistent regardless of hardware.)

    Bottom line is I have always been told to vote with my dollars. I want an iPhone, but I am having trouble justifying giving my money to a business whose business practices I am opposed to. Im sure there is someone out there who is a PC guy has gone through this tough decision. How did you overcome it?
    04-13-2010 12:09 PM
  2. mth785's Avatar
    I can't help you with your quandry but Apple does allow tethering it is AT&T that does not. In Jobs we trust.
    04-13-2010 12:17 PM
  3. cardfan's Avatar
    How would an open business model be better for Apple and its stockholders?
    04-13-2010 12:31 PM
  4. ghostface147's Avatar
    Well my question is, does Apple restrict anything for your personal uses? Besides flash, which I don't really miss on my iPhone, there is nothing Apple restricts that affects me. That's what I feel it comes down to. Does their mentality affect your day to day uses?
    04-13-2010 12:47 PM
  5. Jerry-O's Avatar
    How would an open business model be better for Apple and its stockholders?
    It is not a matter of being good for the stockholders or not. Apple is in business to make money and a closed model is their method of doing so, there is nothing wrong with that, but it is not a business philosophy that I support. I am not asking them to change, they have made their choice, now I need to make mine.

    I guess I will need to look internally and figure out how powerful my conviction is for this issuevs my desire for an iPhone.
    04-13-2010 01:17 PM
  6. whmurray's Avatar
    How would an open business model be better for Apple and its stockholders?
    It might result in higher volumes.

    The quid pro quo might be commodity margins.

    One pays one's dollar and takes one's choice. Apple has made one choice and MS another. Judging from my return on my investment in the two companies, I like Apple's choice. If I want to bet on "open" I will move money in the direction of MS but I do not expect to do that any time soon.
    04-13-2010 01:27 PM
  7. whmurray's Avatar
    Well my question is, does Apple restrict anything for your personal uses? Besides flash, which I don't really miss on my iPhone, there is nothing Apple restricts that affects me. That's what I feel it comes down to. Does their mentality affect your day to day uses?
    Apple does not restrict me.

    The market offers me a large, but not infinite, number of choices. I pay my dollar and make my choices. I choose the iPhone/iPad, with all of its features, functions, properties, and limitations, over my other choices.
    04-13-2010 01:30 PM
  8. toddrules's Avatar
    I am a PC guy to my core, I build all of my own desktops and have never thought about buying a mac. I resisted the iphone for a long time, using Palm Pre and Droid but at the end of the day Iphone is the best user experience out there.

    It feels natural to use, it does everything i want and the quality of the apps are far above those i used on palm and android. As much as i always hated the way Apple did business, the Iphone is one example where they just do it better then anyone else. So I bought an Iphone and have yet to regret it for 1 second. Hopefully this helps.
    04-13-2010 02:07 PM
  9. Ipheuria's Avatar
    If you know me you would know this is not meant as a bashing but my personal opinions take it as you will. I have often wondered what the problem is with, this is a closed model and this is an open model, why one must be superior over the other. As a customer I have to say that I personally do love the customer experience. I use a device for what I need it for, if it doesn't fulfill that function then I find something that will. Yes there are things the iPhone can't do and you can Jailbreak it to do some of those things. If you don't want to JB then find a device that does those things. There are all kinds of users out there and everyone will never be satisfied. If the iPhone did flash but DESTROYED battery then there would be armies of users boycotting the device because the battery life sucks. Then there are people saying well the app store censors the experience but the same people turn around and blame the copius amounts of porno on the way children behave. At the end of the day Apple is a company it tries to make money by providing users with merchandise, it tries to appeal to the largest part of the market knowing that not everyone will be pleased. I by the way work in a 90/10 Windows/Mac office and I run both on my MB Pro. I have worked in Windows for years so I am a PC guy. You don't need to justify giving your money to Apple you need to justify spending your money on an object you need for the functionality. If that is not justification enough then I doubt anything will change your mind.
    04-13-2010 02:16 PM
  10. Jerry-O's Avatar
    @Ipheuria

    Well said... I need to kee in mind that I am just buying a device, not the company or the philosophy. Apple is good at sucking people into the 'apple lifestyle' like it is a drug and it is easy to get caught up in the "I don't want to be one of 'those' people" mentality. I guess it really is just a phone, they are not taking my money and killing puppies.

    Unless there is a clearly better choice I guess iPhone here I come until something that better suits my needs come along.
    04-13-2010 02:46 PM
  11. Ipheuria's Avatar
    Exactly my point if the phone does what you need that's all that should matter. So let us know what you decide
    04-13-2010 02:55 PM
  12. jamesus's Avatar
    Bottom line is I have always been told to vote with my dollars. I want an iPhone, but I am having trouble justifying giving my money to a business whose business practices I am opposed to. Im sure there is someone out there who is a PC guy has gone through this tough decision. How did you overcome it?
    I was once you. I voted with my dollars with the first iPhone by not purchasing it. When the 3G came out, I could resist no more. All I had to do is try it (I came from the WinMo world) and now I can't live without it.
    04-13-2010 05:01 PM
  13. toGeorge's Avatar
    Ditto, Ipheuria!

    I am a PC guy! I have had my issues with Apple in the past, mainly because I found a lot of their software less intuitive than software on the PC and their unavailability for support unless you pay. My distaste for Apple was recently reinforced when I struggled through iTunes when my kids got their first iPods.

    Then came the iPhone. I had to have it, I have had it for a year and don't know of a device that would make me happier. I have no regrets.

    I still have problems with iTunes, especially when Apple releases an iTunes update or an iPhone update or when I change PC OS platforms. I also expect a problem when I install the new iPhone OS 4.0 update.

    In summary, I love the iPhone and have learned to take the good with the bad.
    04-13-2010 05:43 PM
  14. whmurray's Avatar
    You know what I like most about Apple support? I can enjoy their products without using it.

    Let me tell you about quality software. There is Intuit. There is Apple.

    I have used Quicken since it meant "quick and dirty." It never was. I have used it through ten years and five upgrades. You know upgrades? Quicken works. It works year in and year out. Upgrade after upgrade. The data is so sensitive that I update it after every use. However, Quicken has never ever trashed my data. Upgrades are automagic and do not rely on me.

    iTunes is like that. It just works. Sometimes it is so slow that I think that, this time, it has really crashed. Nope. Just be patient. It sorts itself, my iPhone, and my data.

    Does Windows work like that? Does Acrobat work like that? Apple and Intuit. You have to ask why doesn't Windows work like that? Apple software is not intuitive? Perhaps it does not require intuition; it just works.

    Some people object to Apple's "closed business practices." There is a difference between a "closed" business practice and a closed product strategy. Apple's business practices include quality in everything they do, from stores to product to packaging to people. Apple's practices include treating all customers consistently. Apple's practices include enriching its partners, its investors, and its people.

    I am glad that I am an Apple customer. I am glad that I am an Apple investor. Some day I may even be an Apple "fanboy."
    04-13-2010 06:57 PM
  15. Jellotime91's Avatar
    Dude, it is NOT that serious.

    A person is not the summation of their beliefs. You can do what you want regardless of your stance on Apple's business practices.

    It's really simple: If the iPhone OS appears to be the best platform for you and your practices, buy an iPhone. Apple is becoming more open, the fact is that Adobe does not play by their rules. If Adobe had attempted to clear their cross-compilation attempts with Apple beforehand, we wouldn't have this problem. It's almost like the Palm Pre syncing with iTunes scenario.

    Apps being compiled in flash and converted to Objective C would greatly deteriorate the quality of iPhone applications. I for one don't want to see any more hideous or incapable apps in the app store.

    And Flash is not even an argument anymore. iPhone OS 4 supports inline playing of HTML5 video, just like the iPad, and Adobe is allowing Flash developers to export to HTML5 canvas instead of flash formats, which will definitely ease the transition for developers. The death of Flash is very close ahead, and it never performed well on mobile devices anyway.
    04-13-2010 07:26 PM
  16. whmurray's Avatar
    Dude, it is NOT that serious.

    A person is not the summation of their beliefs. You can do what you want regardless of your stance on Apple's business practices.

    It's really simple: If the iPhone OS appears to be the best platform for you and your practices, buy an iPhone. Apple is becoming more open, the fact is that Adobe does not play by their rules. If Adobe had attempted to clear their cross-compilation attempts with Apple beforehand, we wouldn't have this problem. It's almost like the Palm Pre syncing with iTunes scenario.

    Apps being compiled in flash and converted to Objective C would greatly deteriorate the quality of iPhone applications. I for one don't want to see any more hideous or incapable apps in the app store.

    And Flash is not even an argument anymore. iPhone OS 4 supports inline playing of HTML5 video, just like the iPad, and Adobe is allowing Flash developers to export to HTML5 canvas instead of flash formats, which will definitely ease the transition for developers. The death of Flash is very close ahead, and it never performed well on mobile devices anyway.
    Oh, dear. Please do not make this about Flash.

    While some might like for iPhone/iPad to support Flash. it is simply not consistent with the product strategy.

    Flash is inefficient; it requires too much power. It is an overstatement to say that Flash will run the battery down in tens of minutes or so heat the device as to cause it to melt. An overstatement.

    My security colleagues have put Flash, indeed most Adobe products, on the "historically broken" list. This ia a list of products that, not only are unable to protect themselves from their data, but which are so fragile as to both require and resist constant repair. Attempts to fix one vulnerability have a fifty-fifty chance of introducing another. Like sendmail, Flash is repaired over and over without becoming any more reliable.

    in open systems, Flash is only one of many components that require perpetual maintenance without ever getting better. In the iPhone, it would be the first and only.

    Please do not let this discussion degenerate into one about Flash. It is hardly worth it.
    04-13-2010 09:32 PM
  17. iquinn's Avatar
    Kinda funny to me that everyone jumps on Apple about a closed business model and then uses Adobe as one of the examples of why. Flash is not really an open model either, it is owned by Adobe and the only reason they want to see it do well is that it puts money in their pocket. HTML 5 is not going to be a flash killer by itself, but it is a far more open model then what Adobe is at present.
    04-13-2010 09:58 PM
  18. iquinn's Avatar
    Oh, dear. Please do not make this about Flash.
    Umm, pretty sure it was the OP that brought up Flash in the first place. No reason to flame a TiPb member for having an opinion of their own.
    04-13-2010 10:00 PM
  19. Jellotime91's Avatar
    Umm, pretty sure it was the OP that brought up Flash in the first place. No reason to flame a TiPb member for having an opinion of their own.
    Yeah, thank you for that.
    haha
    04-14-2010 02:26 AM
  20. iquinn's Avatar
    Yeah, thank you for that.
    haha
    No worries, I thought you made some great points in your post. Just don't want this forum to turn into the ***** and flame sessions that have ruined the iPhone forums at CB.
    04-14-2010 03:37 AM
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