1. icebike's Avatar
    I've noticed that any mention of cut and paste, even those quoting iPhone marketing head Greg Joswiak, are systematically being deleted from Apple Forums lately. This started just prior to the release of 2.2.

    Censoring posters is one thing, but censoring their own head of marketing seem a bit desperate.

    Instead we get fairly useless "features" and pointless redesigns of various applications with no new functionality other than that provided largely by third parties (street view). Have we seen a de-facto core feature freeze on the iPhone?
    12-02-2008 05:14 PM
  2. JustinHorn's Avatar
    The new features in map app are great and a hell of a lot more useful than copy / paste. I think the walking and public trans are great because I use my GPS more when I travel anyway and most of the time don't rent a car. And yes, google provides the data / API, but apple creates the app to connect to that data.
    12-02-2008 05:38 PM
  3. icebike's Avatar
    > And yes, google provides the data / API, but apple creates the app to connect to that data.

    I'm not so sure. The copyright in Maps on the iphone says Google, Not Apple.
    12-02-2008 06:00 PM
  4. JustinHorn's Avatar
    > And yes, google provides the data / API, but apple creates the app to connect to that data.

    I'm not so sure. The copyright in Maps on the iphone says Google, Not Apple.
    Hmm... Good point, I didn't think about that
    12-02-2008 07:19 PM
  5. Rene Ritchie's Avatar
    You know what's funny? After 2 weeks without my iPhone, and with cut and paste devices like the Android G1, Treo Pro, and HTC FUZE...

    I miss the iPhone's way of doing it.

    iPhone: On a web page, want to send the URL, hit the + button, tap Email, choose address, send, back on page. Boom.

    Other phones: Complex procedure involving cut and paste, switching apps, styluses!!!! and other stuff so annoying I just stopped doing it.

    Sure, I'd like cut and paste on the iPhone. Why not? But I'd expect it to be iPhone drop-dead simple to use. And I expect Apple expects me to expect that, and until they can "do it right" they'd rather not do it at all.

    Everything on the iPhone is system-wide (stealing from Dieter from last night's Round Robin podcast! Go listen to him!), and it has to work for everything and everywhere, and there's no second chance if they mess it up. It's CTRL-C/V/P or Mouse moves all over again. New platform, new paradigm.

    They have to nail it. (and BlackBerry Storm and Android haven't)
    12-02-2008 08:02 PM
  6. wabbit#IM's Avatar
    And yes, google provides the data / API, but apple creates the app to connect to that data.
    i would put money that google makes the app, streetview been out for google mobile maps for 6 or so months now. the same way, the google app uses apples locked api in the app for the sensor, i think the people who write the iphones map app, did that too hence they know the call for to / from your head.

    apple really dont make anything, they repackage stuff under their name.
    12-02-2008 10:41 PM
  7. JustinHorn's Avatar
    Google Mobile App (iPhone version): This software includes BSJSON software developed by Blake Seely (http://www.blakeseely.com). This software is based in part on Spexx: Copyright (c) 2002-2003 Jean-Marc Valin.
    12-03-2008 12:34 AM
  8. Rene Ritchie's Avatar
    Apple wrote the Google Maps App for the iPhone, using Google's data feeds.
    12-03-2008 07:15 AM
  9. Stevie No-Wonder's Avatar
    apple really dont make anything, they repackage stuff under their name.
    Uh huh.... like Bill did with Windows?
    12-09-2008 02:19 PM
  10. 3gmacattack's Avatar
    Apple isn't going to just throw copy and paste in there much like rim did with the storm and end up with a disaster. When they do it it will be done right and that's why it's taking longer then people want, and 2.2 is great
    12-10-2008 11:11 PM
  11. marcol's Avatar
    I've noticed that any mention of cut and paste, even those quoting iPhone marketing head Greg Joswiak, are systematically being deleted from Apple Forums lately. This started just prior to the release of 2.2.
    I don't go there much but I'm sure this has happened before with other topics. This is an excerpt from the T&C you sign up to when you use the site:

    1. Stay on topic. Apple Discussions is here to help people use Apple products and technologies more effectively. Unless otherwise noted, do not add Submissions about nontechnical topics, including:
    1. Speculations or rumors about unannounced products.
    2. Discussions of Apple policies or procedures or speculation on Apple decisions.
    Apple - Support - Discussions - Help
    12-11-2008 04:43 AM
  12. marcol's Avatar
    and 2.2 is great
    It's great at what it is but no good at all at what it isn't

    Best thing: Safari stability. Much, much more valuable to me than copy and paste.
    12-11-2008 04:48 AM
  13. marcol's Avatar
    Everything on the iPhone is system-wide
    <cough>Landscape keyboard</cough>

    That I want!
    12-11-2008 04:59 AM
  14. JustinHorn's Avatar
    Apple isn't going to just throw copy and paste in there much like rim did with the storm and end up with a disaster. When they do it it will be done right and that's why it's taking longer then people want, and 2.2 is great
    I agree, here is a post I made on my blog...

    dizzy says...

    On his website Daring Fireball, John Gruber recently responded to an article by Macworld about the Storms copy & paste feature. Hopefully those of you that read this will give apple a bit more credit for waiting to deliver its copy & paste solution.

    Here is the section of the Macworld article that covers copy & paste:

    And while were on the subject of welcome features that users are clamoring for, lets not overlook (cue fanfare) cut-and-paste. BlackBerry has shown Apple how its done, by using the same multi-touch technology used in the iPhone 3G. Heres how it works: you put one finger at the start of what you want to copy, and one finger at the end to highlight text; then press the Menu button to select cut or copy. Now, this is a feature that we havent really felt the need for but the Macworld readership has being quite vocal about the lack of cut-and-paste on the iPhone. RIMs solution doesnt work well enough for us because it is fiddly beyond belief (using this would drive you mad, said one of our testers). But in the absence of anything better from Apple this is an area where RIM scores a point, just.

    And Grubers comments:

    How exactly is a crap UI that will drive you mad showing Apple how its done? Would the iPhone be better with more but poorly-designed features? Im sure some people agree, but it seems an odd sentiment for Mac users.

    I believe the question from Grubers comments sums it up quite nicely. My answer is NO, I dont need more features just to have them, especially poorly designed ones. This idea of quantity vs quality applies to many facets of life, not just programmingdo you really need 37 different wash setting on your dishwasher? No, probably not, but it helps their marketing department and as consumer we eat it up!

    Even though its just apple being apple in response to unfounded user demands, I still give them credit for not throwing something together like RIM. Storms failure to deliver copy & paste in an intuitive and easy to use way should really give those iPhone users demanding this feature pause. Whats the point of having a feature if its such a pain in the *** to use, you never do? Be careful what you wish for!
    12-11-2008 03:26 PM
  15. Jdub's Avatar
    <cough>Landscape keyboard</cough>

    That I want!
    I agree 110%!! The number 1 thing on my list I want!! How hard is it to create landscape mode for SMS and email? For the love of !!
    12-12-2008 02:14 AM
  16. devonair's Avatar
    I thought I wanted landscape keyboard, but I would much rather have cut-and-paste. The more I get used to using the iPhone keyboard, the more I realize that getting my fingers adjusted to one layout would make switching back-and-forth awkward. Plus, using a portrait-size keyboard is actually more efficient (less finger travel).
    12-28-2008 03:20 AM
  17. mcdan333#AC's Avatar
    @devonair: a portrait keyboard is not more efficient if every third keystroke is backspace. By your logic, a postage stamp-size keyboard would be even more efficient (less finger travel).
    12-28-2008 10:16 AM
  18. devonair's Avatar
    @mcdan333 touche' =) But for someone like myself, who is used to Treo/Blackberry/portrait-style physical keyboards, I've become decently comfortable with the touchscreen as is. If someone wants a landscape keyboard, more power to them, but my personal opinion is that it would make it harder to train your muscle memory to use the touchscreen accurately if you constantly switch back and forth between portrait and landscape (because the travel between "keys" would not be the same in both modes). If you're the type of user who doesn't mind this, then more power to you.
    01-05-2009 11:14 PM
  19. mcdan333#AC's Avatar
    You do have a point, devonair. In any case, I agree with you totally about cut and paste. That's my #1 feature wish too.
    01-06-2009 08:33 AM
  20. icebike's Avatar
    Apple isn't going to just throw copy and paste in there much like rim did with the storm and end up with a disaster. When they do it it will be done right and that's why it's taking longer then people want, and 2.2 is great

    You are a serial enabler 3Gmacattack.

    I'm not sure that regurgitating Apple excuses is useful here. They've had two years.

    They spend untold hours trying to out fox the Dev Team, (which does not improve their bottom line in any way), and they push niche products to the iPhone (iphoto, ilife, iKeynote) and stonewall the users on things the phone can actually do, just because Steve Says No(tm).

    No mms, no movie camera, horribly crippled Bluetooth, and yes, cut/paste.

    (Cut/paste is not even on my top 5 list of wants for this phone, its just been promised for longer than is reasonable).

    My wish would be for them to stop hoisting their balls like street thugs and leave the Dev Team alone with their games. (Apple still sells the phones, but DevTeam hacks frees Apple from the warranty. How sweet is that for the bottom line? Pocket the cash, and shed the liability!).

    Then get on with Push for Apps. That ALONE removes the need for MMS, SMS, and enables true KILLER apps for this phone that will bury Blackberry forever. It could be done with nothing more complex than port knocking. No patents to license, no royalties to pay.

    But respectfully, I suggest you not parrot Apple excuses. Its disingenuous and not helpful.
    01-07-2009 02:05 PM
  21. devonair's Avatar
    Hear, hear, Icebike! =)

    An "elegant" way to cut-and-paste? Please... just let me click and drag my finger on the freakin' screen. Add click-hold to pull up a contextual menu and you're done. Sure, this is stealing from WinMo and is built for stylus use, but I've been doing this with my bare finger for 2 1/2 years on a WM Treo, and something similar on Palm OS Treo's for 3 years before that (I think I had to use the actual menu buttons? ...its been too long to remember). The stupid click-hold magnifying glass isn't elegant, but I can learn to live with it. Forget elegant... give me functional.

    Add to this the 4-5 month late push notifications and all of "my" wishlist items for the iPhone would be satisfied. (Well, with the exception of a CDMA version for Sprint, haha, and actual file-system/directory-structure access... but I don't think either of those will EVER happen.)
    01-07-2009 03:17 PM
  22. icebike's Avatar
    The Palm Pre has cut and paste and the OS in that device is only release 1.0.

    Seriously, the Palm will be Verizon's iPhone, but Palm has a GSM version as well. Its a compelling device, with no dictator standing in the road to progress.

    The G2 is also coming.

    We will look back fondly on the iPhone as the first "Pentium" of handsets after a long run of 8088s ad 286s. But unless the rumored Quad Processor iPhone arrives soon, I fear others will eat apple's lunch.

    First and foremost, it has to be a phone. And the phone has to work. And so far, that has been the iPhone's biggest failing.
    01-09-2009 06:31 PM
  23. devonair's Avatar
    I am incredibly excited for the "Pre". But I'm also excited to think how much harder Apple will have to work now that there is more compelling competition out there. And of course, this will also (hopefully) spur innovation in the Android, WinMo, and BBOS camps...

    lol, and not to be a know-it-all, but: the Pre is launching exclusively on Sprint, so won't be Verizon's iPhone. =P Palm has always been close with Sprint, and the GSM version is launching first in Europe -- so Sprint should have at least a 3 month exclusivity (I'm guessing 6 month, though).
    01-10-2009 04:28 AM
  24. whmurray's Avatar
    I've noticed that any mention of cut and paste, even those quoting iPhone marketing head Greg Joswiak, are systematically being deleted from Apple Forums lately. This started just prior to the release of 2.2.

    Censoring posters is one thing, but censoring their own head of marketing seem a bit desperate.

    Instead we get fairly useless "features" and pointless redesigns of various applications with no new functionality other than that provided largely by third parties (street view). Have we seen a de-facto core feature freeze on the iPhone?
    And I have noticed that no one in this thread wants to address the question. The question is cut-and-paste, not Google Maps. That iPhone 2.2 does Google maps, has nothing to do with cut-and-paste. That it does many other good things has nothing to do with cut-and-paste.

    Let's face it. The reason that Apple, nor anyone else, has done cut-and-paste for the iPhone is that it is a really hard problem. You will not see it on 2.n and maybe never.

    Apple has not reneged because it has been scrupulously careful not to promise.
    01-31-2009 10:16 PM
  25. whmurray's Avatar
    The new features in map app are great and a hell of a lot more useful than copy / paste.........
    I am glad that you think so but the one has nothing to do with the other.
    01-31-2009 10:18 PM
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