1. cmaier's Avatar
    Now that it's out for Mac, I wonder if iphone will receive an update to match. If so, web development for iphone becomes a lot more interesting (off-line storage, css animations, etc.)
    03-18-2008 12:16 PM
  2. Rene Ritchie's Avatar
    Agreed!

    http://forum.phonedifferent.com/showthread.php?t=162525

    (Note: I had to upgrade 1Password to the latest beta to get it to play nice with Safari 3.1...)
    03-19-2008 08:40 AM
  3. cardfan's Avatar
    And already uninstalled.

    Firefox is so much better it's unreal. Look, i'm a fan of the iphone and all, but this safari desktop browser blows for me.

    I'd use opera or IE before loading safari again.
    03-19-2008 09:23 AM
  4. cmaier's Avatar
    What's your issue with safari? I have camino, firefox, and safari installed. I personally prefer safari's interface, and it seems more stable, as well. I haven't run into any pages that safari can't open but that can be opened in one of the other two.

    Other than plug-ins, I don't see much advantage for firefox. And I've used firefox forever on linux and hardly used any plugins.
    03-19-2008 09:33 AM
  5. Rene Ritchie's Avatar
    I use Firefox on the PC (though I'm trying out Safari 3.1,; I need my glass of water...) but after trying and trying, I just can't use it on the Mac. It's slow, a memory pig, and the interface blows. About the only time I drag it out now is for testing web dev and for sites which use quirky AJaX that seems to only run in Firefox.

    Mozilla just hasn't grokked the Mac yet, and IE isn't a real option (I use it on Vista for testing and hope IE 8 turns the corner. IE 6 is still a blight).

    Opera was never in the race.
    03-19-2008 11:45 AM
  6. cardfan's Avatar
    plugins, interface, etc. Apple is a mess. Maybe they'll get right in a few versions.
    03-19-2008 02:55 PM
  7. Rene Ritchie's Avatar
    I *far* prefer Safari's interface over Firefox's (especially on OS X). I had slim hope for FF 3 but that was dashed by Mozilla's abrupt about face.

    I never used plugins, so they don't matter to me.

    Basically, Safari is minimalist. I mostly just see the web page. Not a lot of border, very few pixels in menu height (though Windows suffers with the top menu). It's actually interesting that Apple, which often puts form over function (looking at you 10.5 dock!), was so completely restrained with Safari. That's telling, IMHO.

    (Maybe it's a Zen thing?)
    03-19-2008 03:03 PM
  8. cmaier's Avatar
    I gotta say, interface-wise i think FF is horrible. Certainly doesn't fit in on a Mac, but even on linux I'm not a big fan. Safari's interface is suitably minimalist, without garish buttons and all of the annoying FF bling.

    Plugins would definitely be nice, but since I used so few, I can live without them.

    Additionally, safari renders more quickly than FF, it seems to render more correctly than FF, seems to use less memory in doing so, seems to be more stable, and, on the mac, integrates better into the system than FF. The search-on-page function blows FF out of the water, it offers interesting features like snapback, allows you to change your user agent, etc.

    I'd hardly call it "a mess." Other than finishing HTML 5 support and adding full-blown plugin support, I can't think of much I'd change.
    03-19-2008 04:22 PM
  9. marcol's Avatar
    I gotta say, interface-wise i think FF is horrible. Certainly doesn't fit in on a Mac, but even on linux I'm not a big fan. Safari's interface is suitably minimalist, without garish buttons and all of the annoying FF bling.
    Have you tried 3.0? It looks nothing like 2, much more Apple-like.

    Plugins would definitely be nice, but since I used so few, I can live without them.
    Adblock Plus is justification enough IMO!

    Additionally, safari renders more quickly than FF
    The current beta (3.0b4) seems really quick to me and haven't had any stability problem. There does seem to be a bit of a glitch with BBC iPlayer site (it sometimes takes several clicks to make the video controls work) and Google Browser Sync doesn't work yet.

    Agree about integration - no "Look Up in Dictionary" is a bit of pain (but you can just drag the word onto the Dictionary icon in the dock of course).
    03-19-2008 05:56 PM
  10. cmaier's Avatar
    3.0 is definitely an improvement, UI-wise, but it still bugs me. Frankly, I think a browser's UI should be almost non-existent. When you interact with a browser, 99% of the time it's the webpage, not the browser-functionality, that you are using. The UI should get out of the way unless you are specifically dealing with browser functionality (printing, saving (and I love safari's print to web receipts folder, btw, bookmark management, etc.). Safari has the most minimal UI as far as I know.
    03-19-2008 06:04 PM
  11. marcol's Avatar
    Each to his own I guess I won't be using Safari much until PithHelmet is updated.
    03-19-2008 06:20 PM
  12. Rene Ritchie's Avatar
    When Mozilla started thinking their competition was Facebook rather than IE or Safari, I started thinking they'd turned the wrong way.

    They want to play the "platform" game now in the race for the cloud. I just want a quick, clean browser. Our paths have diverged.
    03-19-2008 08:00 PM
  13. marcol's Avatar
    How do you guys block ads in Safari, or do you not bother? I like PithHelmet but it's only updated infrequently now. I tried a CSS method but that let too much through. This is pretty much killing Safari for me at the moment.
    03-20-2008 09:23 AM
  14. cmaier's Avatar
    I generally don't bother, but I did take a few sites (doubleclick, etc.) and modify my hosts file to point them at 127.0.0.1.
    03-20-2008 11:34 AM
  15. marcol's Avatar
    Hmmm. Much as I suspected, the problem is really in my mind
    03-20-2008 02:09 PM
  16. Rene Ritchie's Avatar
    I don't block adds because I write for sites, including my own, that use adds to generate revenue to support content and delivery, and I'd feel hypocritical blocking others' attempts to do likewise*

    (* sites rising to the level of add-spam I just simply refuse to go to -- vote with my clicks, so to speak).
    03-20-2008 02:16 PM
  17. Rene Ritchie's Avatar
    Interesting tweet from the developers who make 1Password:

    @gruber Surprisingly (maybe not), it is much easier to extend Safari than Firefox. And Firefox extension can crash the browser in no time. about 11 hours ago from web in reply to gruber
    03-20-2008 10:43 PM
  18. marcol's Avatar
    I don't block adds because I write for sites, including my own, that use adds to generate revenue to support content and delivery, and I'd feel hypocritical blocking others' attempts to do likewise*
    I do feel a bit guilty about this. A bit but not very. The problem is with the nature of the ads and in my IMO the sites and ads providers should take responsibility. If ads were relatively small, *never* animated, less garish, and there wasn't too many on a page I'd be much less inclined to block them.

    Seems to me that there's a gap in the market for an aesthetically responsible on-line ads company - perhaps Smartphone Experts readers could get together and buy Yahoo! and sort his out


    EDIT. Rene, no criticism was intended of your site, which seems like a model of advertising restraint.
    03-21-2008 04:46 AM
  19. cardfan's Avatar
    I tried it again in light of some comments. This time i'll keep if only to use it to put bookmarks i want on the iphone..lol.

    Some things i personally dislike though:

    The fonts. It's weird to read.

    Zoom doesn't seem to zoom on my widescreen monitor but instead chops off the sides of the window.

    No google sync as i have on FF. This i value most.

    No pic zoom.

    The autocomplete for names & passwords is simply much better in FF. I can even see the passwords. I went to yahoo.com and signed in..safari didn't save it. For another site i went to, it did. Hit and miss.

    Clicking bookmarks, i don't want a separate page..i simply want a list to scroll down.

    I don't want a new window to open but instead, a tab. This still doesn't seem to work right even though its in preferences.

    Not much to customize on the top. The tabs are a dull color. In FF i have colored ones (extension) that help my lazy eyes.

    As to being the quickest? I'll be honest. On comcast cable, it doesn't matter which browser i use..they're all quick. The new html 5 standards and others? Huh? That affects me how? lol

    To each their own i guess. I like mobile safari a lot. This, i don't..yet. Perhaps it'll take a few more versions.
    03-21-2008 11:10 AM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD