MacWorld Predictions?

[Rene Ritchie]

Yet the point updates for OS (10.5.x) are unpaid and can add new features, same with Apple TV and iPhone (not sure if OS sales are subscription based?)

Some have said, with the SDK on the horizon, that Apple is testing the waters on iTunes App sales?

Personally, I have one friend who bought the update no question immediately, and another who loves the apps but is offended at the idea of paying for them.

On the flip side, TUAW is reporting that 1.1.3 unbricks past-bricked iPhones?

 

[cmaier]

I like the fact that you are not bottle-necked with a USB connection. The Time Capsule has a fast server-class SATA drive spinning at 72,000.

7200. And a USB drive can run at 7200 as well. The interface may be a little slower, but with some USB enclosures you can get RAID (adding speed, reliability, or both). Speed is probably not such a big deal since you are network-bound, anyway (and this is for backups, so reliability is key).

The best solution is a RAID NAS running on the network, but leopard doesn't allow it (without a hack. I use the hack with an Infrant box with four "server class" 750GB drives in it running a RAID configuration as my time machine target. Works fine so far.)

 

[Rene Ritchie]

Does Drobo work with Time Machine? Or would that be a waste of the little bot?

 

[cmaier]

Does Drobo work with Time Machine? Or would that be a waste of the little bot?

When directly attached (usb) yes.

It would probably work with its new network add-on as well, but that requires the same hack.

I don't quite see where the drobo love comes from (other than the cool look of the box); it seems priced about the same as the infrant, and a lot less functional.

 

[archie]

Archie,

Thanks for the revisionist history post, and the insult to "stick it". I took your advice, and stuck it in a certain person's maternal representation. (Mods, feel free to delete this post, but quite frankly am sick of Archie's insulting comments. One good policy violation begets another.)

I was going to respond point by point, but it doens't matter. You just make up the fact to suit yourself (and if you even read, I gave you laptop prediction regardless of size.)

It is you that continues with a revisionist perspective dear one.

You said, "2 for 12 (including the known movie rental stuff)". That's it. I assumed you were giving me iTunes update and Movie rental service, not the laptop.

Besides you missed the others.

• new firmware/software upgrade for the iPhone just as I said
  
• additional iPhone update features in Mail application just as I said
  
• new backup device coming to go with Time Machine just as I said
  
• Movie rental service just as I said
  
• Apple TV to be updated just as I said
  
• Brief mention of a small .Mac feature just as I said
  
• new small portable just as I said
  
• and basically called the Mac Pro AND new Xserves as well

That's 8 things... not 2.

 

[archie]

Customers don't like getting nickeled and dimed.

Not sure why you bring up SOX, as it has nothing to do with the conversation.

As for your logic on why Touch people pay and IPhones people do not, I guess that's one perspective, but I think most would disagree.

Thick headed!

I bring up SOX because it is intertwined. Just because you separate these two issues for us to read does not mean that is the way it must be. The reason people are being asked to pay is because of SOX.

I'll say it again. The iPod Touch is not under subscription accounting. The iPhone and Apple TV are.

There is precedence for this action - at least 5 years worth: 1998 - 2003, probably goes back further. Companies were recognizing revenue from products and services at the time of sale without it being finished or delivered, resulting in hairy accounting practices.


I think its funny that Apple has been doing this with explanation for years but people cannot remember why. Remember that whole ordeal with them enabling 802.11n on Macbooks that were not advertised as having 802.11n?

 

[archie]

new Pro machines...

What did I get wrong here:
No new case design and no new Blu-Ray option. This is quite puzzling. There is something behind this Blu-Ray ordeal that we aren't seeing yet I think.

Now know what the ordeal was behind the lack of Blu-Ray drives in the Pro machines.

Apple's new "Remote Disc" feature included with MacBook Air doesn't support streaming of high-bandwidth media yet. Just learned of this Friday.

One can assume that it will eventually; at which point we will see Blu-Ray drives as a Build-To-Order option along with an Apple TV update to utilize external BluRay drives to pull in streaming movies (we can hope anyway) just as the MacBook Air pulls in content from remote discs.

 

[mikec#IM]

Thick headed!

I bring up SOX because it is intertwined. Just because you separate these two issues for us to read does not mean that is the way it must be. The reason people are being asked to pay is because of SOX.

I'll say it again. The iPod Touch is not under subscription accounting. The iPhone and Apple TV are.

There is precedence for this action - at least 5 years worth: 1998 - 2003, probably goes back further. Companies were recognizing revenue from products and services at the time of sale without it being finished or delivered, resulting in hairy accounting practices.


I think its funny that Apple has been doing this with explanation for years but people cannot remember why. Remember that whole ordeal with them enabling 802.11n on Macbooks that were not advertised as having 802.11n?

Thick headed?

Again, SOX has ZERO to do with the reason people are being asked to pay. I'm afraid you do not understand SOX, and no sane person on the planet would agree with that viewpoint. That is like saying the reason there are ratings on video games is due to the Patriot Act.

SOX has everything to do accounting/financials/controls/accountability, and nothing to do with marketing or product feature sets.

 

[mikec#IM]

Now know what the ordeal was behind the lack of Blu-Ray drives in the Pro machines.

Apple's new "Remote Disc" feature included with MacBook Air doesn't support streaming of high-bandwidth media yet. Just learned of this Friday.

One can assume that it will eventually; at which point we will see Blu-Ray drives as a Build-To-Order option along with an Apple TV update to utilize external BluRay drives to pull in streaming movies (we can hope anyway) just as the MacBook Air pulls in content from remote discs.

I think he was taking about the Pro Macbooks, not the Macbook Air.

Maybe it's just as simple as costs and the market penetration of Blu-Ray (or HD DVD for that matter.)

 

[archie]

Thick headed?

Again, SOX has ZERO to do with the reason people are being asked to pay. I'm afraid you do not understand SOX, and no sane person on the planet would agree with that viewpoint. That is like saying the reason there are ratings on video games is due to the Patriot Act.

SOX has everything to do accounting/financials/controls/accountability, and nothing to do with marketing or product feature sets.

If Apple Inc. (or any other company for that matter) sells a product, and if it then adds a feature to the product, Apple can be held liable for improper accounting if it accepts revenue from the product at the time of sale given that it hasn?t finished delivering the product at that point.

Get it? It becomes implicit that the product was not finished at the time of introduction.


I'll try explaining it differently.
You are paying $20 for a certain added value, namely the ability to write notes, quickly check the weather, quickly track stocks, check your location, get driving directions, check traffic and send and receive email. Now, you have to admit that any sane person looking at this can perceive the value and be able to say, "yeh, all those features are worth $20".

The GAAP says Apple MUST account for separate (added) values that software brings to products previously sold. Those things I listed above weren't just a software upgrade, they were substantial added values that were not promised in any way shape or form in the original product. It is in essence a whole new product now.

And HEY, what do you know - the iPod Touch now has a different SKU #.

 

[archie]

I think he was taking about the Pro Macbooks, not the Macbook Air.

No, I'm pretty sure "he" was talking about the unforeseen reasoning of Mac Pros not including Blu-Ray drives built in. The reason I'm pretty sure is because that "he" is ME.

Maybe it's just as simple as costs and the market penetration of Blu-Ray (or HD DVD for that matter.)

Or... maybe it's that the whole advantage and reasoning of the MacBook Air relies on the stability of the "Remote Disc" feature. Who would pay that much for a feature - the main feature - that didn't work correctly, am I right?

 

[cardfan]

All these other companies..not being GAAP compliant..but Apple is on the ipod Touch? LOL

Try again.

The whole issue is Apple charging its customers for a software update. GAAP doesn't force them to do so. How they record or recognize revenue or expenses is irrelevant to me.

 

[Rene Ritchie]

Pure speculation and labeled as such:

Could there be some sort of usage or license fee paid to Skyhook per unit for the Wi-Fi Google Maps location service? If so, could the subscription accounting model for iPhone allow this to be expensed against the future recognition for iPhone, and against the immediately recognized revenue of iPod Touches sold from this point on, but for previously (already) recognized iPod Touches, be passed on to the consumer so Apple can expense against the upgrade charge?

Again, pure speculation, and even if there is anything to it, no doubt the debate will rage over whether or not Apple could/should eat it as a gift to early adapters, or how (much) they chose to charge either way...

 

[mikec#IM]

If Apple Inc. (or any other company for that matter) sells a product, and if it then adds a feature to the product, Apple can be held liable for improper accounting if it accepts revenue from the product at the time of sale given that it hasn?t finished delivering the product at that point.

Get it? It becomes implicit that the product was not finished at the time of introduction.


I'll try explaining it differently.
You are paying $20 for a certain added value, namely the ability to write notes, quickly check the weather, quickly track stocks, check your location, get driving directions, check traffic and send and receive email. Now, you have to admit that any sane person looking at this can perceive the value and be able to say, "yeh, all those features are worth $20".

The GAAP says Apple MUST account for separate (added) values that software brings to products previously sold. Those things I listed above weren't just a software upgrade, they were substantial added values that were not promised in any way shape or form in the original product. It is in essence a whole new product now.

And HEY, what do you know - the iPod Touch now has a different SKU #.

The only thing I "get" is that you have no fargin idea what you are talking about.

"Not finished at the time of introduction" - GMAFB. We're talking about a phone/PMP here, not jet airplane. An item is sold. Revenue realized. End of story.

Again, SOX has nothing to do with it. GAAP has nothing to do with it. This is just Apple seeing a chance to make more money! Plain and simple! Saying Apple MUST charge for the "update" is laughable.

The Touch having a different SKU means nothing - SKUs change all the time for the "same" products; obviously, you know just about as much about retail as you do about regulatory rules and accounting practices - NOTHING.

Keep swinging and talking with confidence. Pretty soon we'll get to the point where it's Bush's fault that Apple has to charge $20 and HD streaming isn't ready....

 

[mikec#IM]

No, I'm pretty sure "he" was talking about the unforeseen reasoning of Mac Pros not including Blu-Ray drives built in. The reason I'm pretty sure is because that "he" is ME.


Or... maybe it's that the whole advantage and reasoning of the MacBook Air relies on the stability of the "Remote Disc" feature. Who would pay that much for a feature - the main feature - that didn't work correctly, am I right?

I thought you liked being referred to in the thrid person....

Macbook Pro and MBA are two different beasts.

"Remote disc" is soooooo amazing (not) Only the Apple RFD could make network file transfer and drive sharing seem new and exciting. This has been done for a long long time.

 

[mikec#IM]

All these other companies..not being GAAP compliant..but Apple is on the ipod Touch? LOL

Try again.

The whole issue is Apple charging its customers for a software update. GAAP doesn't force them to do so. How they record or recognize revenue or expenses is irrelevant to me.

Bingo.

 

[archie]

All these other companies..not being GAAP compliant..but Apple is on the ipod Touch? LOL

Try again.

The whole issue is Apple charging its customers for a software update. GAAP doesn't force them to do so. How they record or recognize revenue or expenses is irrelevant to me.

The whole issue is that it is NOT JUST a software update. You are changing the product, making it do something substantially different as advertised. There are not "all these other companies" doing this because they do not add features to the extent that Apple does.

And GAAP... it may not be law but it is a rule and this rule is enforced by the government. Plain and simple.

 

[mikec#IM]

Pure speculation and labeled as such:

Could there be some sort of usage or license fee paid to Skyhook per unit for the Wi-Fi Google Maps location service? If so, could the subscription accounting model for iPhone allow this to be expensed against the future recognition for iPhone, and against the immediately recognized revenue of iPod Touches sold from this point on, but for previously (already) recognized iPod Touches, be passed on to the consumer so Apple can expense against the upgrade charge?

Again, pure speculation, and even if there is anything to it, no doubt the debate will rage over whether or not Apple could/should eat it as a gift to early adapters, or how (much) they chose to charge either way...

Rener,

Anytime you have a charge, you can get very creative on what expenses go against it. I highly doubt the licensing for any feature is driving the charge. The revenue for an iPhone and Touch (hardware) are realized when the device is sold. The revenue from the carrier fees is realized in each additional month, separate from the hardware.

The reason for charging the $20 is simple:
- They can do it, and fanboys will gladly pay the $20
- The get extra cash they can use for other things
- The can write off additional expense (internal accounting trick/benefit)

The bottom line is that Apple loves sticking it to earlier adopters. They've been doing this since the original Mac days. It's one thing they are very consistent about.

 

[archie]

The whole issue is Apple charging its customers for a software update.

Every software company in the world (except for open source stuff of course) charges their customers for software upgrades. Why do you expect Apple to not do so?

I want a serious answer because I think you have unfounded expectations.

 

[mikec#IM]

The whole issue is that it is NOT JUST a software update. You are changing the product, making it do something substantially different as advertised. There are not "all these other companies" doing this because they do not add features to the extent that Apple does.

And GAAP... it may not be law but it is a rule and this rule is enforced by the government. Plain and simple.

Nothing you state is "plain and simple".

GAAP is not enforced by the government, because they are not gov't rules - it is the guide for reporting. The SEC enforces the gov't rules; GAAP is seen as one of the authoritative source in these matters. But I digresss - it still has ZERO to do with squeezing an extra $20 out of people.

"Other companies don't add features to the extent Apple does"....uh, sure.