1. archie's Avatar
    2 for 12 (including the known movie rental stuff). Karnak would be impressed. (The sad thing is that several of your guesses are things Apple should be doing).

    I like how Apple is charging existing Touch customers $20 for the same apps as the iPhone...or that come with the "new" Touch. (Ug).
    Mike you can't count.

    Let's see...

    I knew that there was a new backup device coming to go with Time Machine - you heard this from me exclusively.

    I knew that Apple TV was going to be updated.

    I knew (like everyone else, as you said) that movie rentals were coming to the iTunes Store.

    I knew that iTunes would of course get updated to support this.

    I knew that the iPhone update 1.1.3 was arriving on this day.

    I also knew that this iPhone 1.1.3 update included Mail app changes to give gMail accounts more features and IMAP functionality - you heard this from me exclusively.

    I knew that Apple was introducing a new portable at 13" X 8" or 8" X 5".

    As we now know, it was the larger size... OK I missed it by an inch. Sorry.
    Actual size is 13 X 9. I thought I came pretty close though so you can stick it mikec.

    We will soon see another device at the 8" X 5" size that I called out (Again, you heard it here first).

    Nobody else was predicting Pro level hardware to arrive at this consumer level show - except for me. I said that they were going to be releasing new Mac Pro AND new Xserves. I said the Mac Pro would be released the first day and the Xserve would be released the day after. As we now know, I was only 5 and 6 days off. Not bad considering nobody (the press and anyone else with an outlet on the net) thought they would consider releasing at this time.

    In regards to the iLife app updates only 2 were updated and then of course you have 2 others that were tied in - Front Row and QuickTime. I was wrong when it came to the 2 that I thought would get new functionality.

    And I was also wrong when it came to the release of the 16GB iPhone. I was 99.9% sure this would come to fruition. There were probably some political reasons or a time factor in the keynote that stopped this from happening to be a focus. I am quite certain we will see this in about 4 weeks though.

    Oh, I did also miss the iPod Hi-Fi II.

    But beyond that I did pretty well. Not as good as last year though. Last year I even predicted the upsetting news that iLife '08 would not arrive until much later. Nobody thought that one was possible.
    01-17-2008 05:02 PM
  2. archie's Avatar
    I like how Apple is charging existing Touch customers $20 for the same apps as the iPhone...or that come with the "new" Touch. (Ug).
    Mike, I don't know why you paint this as a bad thing that Apple is doing?
    I'm SURE you know of Sarbanes-Oxley and I am sure you know that only AppleTV and the iPhone fall under this so why continue to make this an issue.

    iPhone users pay a monthly fee that gets them sftware updates, iPod touch users do not. This is why they are required to pay a mere $20 for 5 applications. THIS is a bargain in my mind.
    01-17-2008 05:09 PM
  3. archie's Avatar
    I can see where people who were considering a new router/access point would consider the time capsule, though I think people would be better off with an airport and plugging a usb drive into it.
    I like the fact that you are not bottle-necked with a USB connection. The Time Capsule has a fast server-class SATA drive spinning at 72,000.
    01-17-2008 05:11 PM
  4. archie's Avatar
    @archie:

    LOL! That's what I was saying. (Though you were a bit of a tease about it...)
    Ah, that's cool. Sorry.

    The $20 for Touch update makes no sense to me given the iPhone and Apple TV updates are gratis. However, it's been pointed out that both those updates make Apple money via rentable movies, where the 5 apps for Touch don't. Don't understand still.

    I like Time Capsule, but it will be interesting to see if you can use it for more than just Time Machine. And will iDrobo be next?
    Yup, Mac or PC can write to it as a drive other than a Time Capsule connected to Time Machine.
    01-17-2008 05:15 PM
  5. cardfan's Avatar
    you'd like to think ipod users already paid for the software updates with the initial purchase.

    I'm not paying for windows updates, palm updates, or any of number of software updates i get..why is this one ok to pay for? (not that i am..i don't own one but do own the iphone).
    01-17-2008 05:17 PM
  6. mikec#IM's Avatar
    Mike you can't count.

    Let's see...

    I knew that there was a new backup device coming to go with Time Machine - you heard this from me exclusively.

    I knew that Apple TV was going to be updated.

    I knew (like everyone else, as you said) that movie rentals were coming to the iTunes Store.

    I knew that iTunes would of course get updated to support this.

    I knew that the iPhone update 1.1.3 was arriving on this day.

    I also knew that this iPhone 1.1.3 update included Mail app changes to give gMail accounts more features and IMAP functionality - you heard this from me exclusively.

    I knew that Apple was introducing a new portable at 13" X 8" or 8" X 5".

    As we now know, it was the larger size... OK I missed it by an inch. Sorry.
    Actual size is 13 X 9. I thought I came pretty close though so you can stick it mikec.

    We will soon see another device at the 8" X 5" size that I called out (Again, you heard it here first).

    Nobody else was predicting Pro level hardware to arrive at this consumer level show - except for me. I said that they were going to be releasing new Mac Pro AND new Xserves. I said the Mac Pro would be released the first day and the Xserve would be released the day after. As we now know, I was only 5 and 6 days off. Not bad considering nobody (the press and anyone else with an outlet on the net) thought they would consider releasing at this time.

    In regards to the iLife app updates only 2 were updated and then of course you have 2 others that were tied in - Front Row and QuickTime. I was wrong when it came to the 2 that I thought would get new functionality.

    And I was also wrong when it came to the release of the 16GB iPhone. I was 99.9% sure this would come to fruition. There were probably some political reasons or a time factor in the keynote that stopped this from happening to be a focus. I am quite certain we will see this in about 4 weeks though.

    Oh, I did also miss the iPod Hi-Fi II.

    But beyond that I did pretty well. Not as good as last year though. Last year I even predicted the upsetting news that iLife '08 would not arrive until much later. Nobody thought that one was possible.
    Archie,

    Thanks for the revisionist history post, and the insult to "stick it". I took your advice, and stuck it in a certain person's maternal representation. (Mods, feel free to delete this post, but quite frankly am sick of Archie's insulting comments. One good policy violation begets another.)

    I was going to respond point by point, but it doens't matter. You just make up the fact to suit yourself (and if you even read, I gave you laptop prediction regardless of size.)
    01-17-2008 05:48 PM
  7. mikec#IM's Avatar
    Mike, I don't know why you paint this as a bad thing that Apple is doing?
    I'm SURE you know of Sarbanes-Oxley and I am sure you know that only AppleTV and the iPhone fall under this so why continue to make this an issue.

    iPhone users pay a monthly fee that gets them sftware updates, iPod touch users do not. This is why they are required to pay a mere $20 for 5 applications. THIS is a bargain in my mind.
    Customers don't like getting nickeled and dimed.

    Not sure why you bring up SOX, as it has nothing to do with the conversation.

    As for your logic on why Touch people pay and IPhones people do not, I guess that's one perspective, but I think most would disagree.
    01-17-2008 05:50 PM
  8. archie's Avatar
    you'd like to think ipod users already paid for the software updates with the initial purchase.

    I'm not paying for windows updates, palm updates, or any of number of software updates i get..why is this one ok to pay for? (not that i am..i don't own one but do own the iphone).
    These are not updates. You are receiving completely new applications that give you 5 completely new pieces of functionality that was not promised with the initial product release.
    01-17-2008 05:52 PM
  9. cardfan's Avatar
    Sorry, but i don't buy that. If they're not updates, then apple shouldn't be selling ipods with the current update and make the purchase separate.

    I think you forgot what updates are. New functionality is part of it. I thought that was part of the Apple experience. Apparently not..unless you pay more.
    01-18-2008 07:00 AM
  10. mobileman's Avatar
    Mike, I don't know why you paint this as a bad thing that Apple is doing?
    I'm SURE you know of Sarbanes-Oxley and I am sure you know that only AppleTV and the iPhone fall under this so why continue to make this an issue.

    iPhone users pay a monthly fee that gets them sftware updates, iPod touch users do not. This is why they are required to pay a mere $20 for 5 applications. THIS is a bargain in my mind.
    My dell laptop gets new software updates every few months. Sometimes they even add new "features". I dont need to pay for any of these.

    It makes no sense for Apple to charge early adopters for a firmware upgrade. It only creates ill-will for a measly $20. I think the is the first negative thing apple has done in over a year.
    01-18-2008 12:38 PM
  11. Rene Ritchie's Avatar
    Yet the point updates for OS (10.5.x) are unpaid and can add new features, same with Apple TV and iPhone (not sure if OS sales are subscription based?)

    Some have said, with the SDK on the horizon, that Apple is testing the waters on iTunes App sales?

    Personally, I have one friend who bought the update no question immediately, and another who loves the apps but is offended at the idea of paying for them.

    On the flip side, TUAW is reporting that 1.1.3 unbricks past-bricked iPhones?
    01-18-2008 01:40 PM
  12. cmaier's Avatar
    I like the fact that you are not bottle-necked with a USB connection. The Time Capsule has a fast server-class SATA drive spinning at 72,000.
    7200. And a USB drive can run at 7200 as well. The interface may be a little slower, but with some USB enclosures you can get RAID (adding speed, reliability, or both). Speed is probably not such a big deal since you are network-bound, anyway (and this is for backups, so reliability is key).

    The best solution is a RAID NAS running on the network, but leopard doesn't allow it (without a hack. I use the hack with an Infrant box with four "server class" 750GB drives in it running a RAID configuration as my time machine target. Works fine so far.)
    01-18-2008 05:05 PM
  13. Rene Ritchie's Avatar
    Does Drobo work with Time Machine? Or would that be a waste of the little bot?
    01-18-2008 07:09 PM
  14. cmaier's Avatar
    Does Drobo work with Time Machine? Or would that be a waste of the little bot?
    When directly attached (usb) yes.

    It would probably work with its new network add-on as well, but that requires the same hack.

    I don't quite see where the drobo love comes from (other than the cool look of the box); it seems priced about the same as the infrant, and a lot less functional.
    01-18-2008 07:22 PM
  15. archie's Avatar
    Archie,

    Thanks for the revisionist history post, and the insult to "stick it". I took your advice, and stuck it in a certain person's maternal representation. (Mods, feel free to delete this post, but quite frankly am sick of Archie's insulting comments. One good policy violation begets another.)

    I was going to respond point by point, but it doens't matter. You just make up the fact to suit yourself (and if you even read, I gave you laptop prediction regardless of size.)
    It is you that continues with a revisionist perspective dear one.

    You said, "2 for 12 (including the known movie rental stuff)". That's it. I assumed you were giving me iTunes update and Movie rental service, not the laptop.

    Besides you missed the others.

    • new firmware/software upgrade for the iPhone just as I said
    • additional iPhone update features in Mail application just as I said
    • new backup device coming to go with Time Machine just as I said
    • Movie rental service just as I said
    • Apple TV to be updated just as I said
    • Brief mention of a small .Mac feature just as I said
    • new small portable just as I said
    • and basically called the Mac Pro AND new Xserves as well

    That's 8 things... not 2.
    01-20-2008 03:58 AM
  16. archie's Avatar
    Customers don't like getting nickeled and dimed.

    Not sure why you bring up SOX, as it has nothing to do with the conversation.

    As for your logic on why Touch people pay and IPhones people do not, I guess that's one perspective, but I think most would disagree.
    Thick headed!

    I bring up SOX because it is intertwined. Just because you separate these two issues for us to read does not mean that is the way it must be. The reason people are being asked to pay is because of SOX.

    I'll say it again. The iPod Touch is not under subscription accounting. The iPhone and Apple TV are.

    There is precedence for this action - at least 5 years worth: 1998 - 2003, probably goes back further. Companies were recognizing revenue from products and services at the time of sale without it being finished or delivered, resulting in hairy accounting practices.


    I think its funny that Apple has been doing this with explanation for years but people cannot remember why. Remember that whole ordeal with them enabling 802.11n on Macbooks that were not advertised as having 802.11n?
    01-20-2008 04:19 AM
  17. archie's Avatar
    new Pro machines...

    What did I get wrong here:
    No new case design and no new Blu-Ray option. This is quite puzzling. There is something behind this Blu-Ray ordeal that we aren't seeing yet I think.
    Now know what the ordeal was behind the lack of Blu-Ray drives in the Pro machines.

    Apple's new "Remote Disc" feature included with MacBook Air doesn't support streaming of high-bandwidth media yet. Just learned of this Friday.

    One can assume that it will eventually; at which point we will see Blu-Ray drives as a Build-To-Order option along with an Apple TV update to utilize external BluRay drives to pull in streaming movies (we can hope anyway) just as the MacBook Air pulls in content from remote discs.
    01-20-2008 04:30 AM
  18. mikec#IM's Avatar
    Thick headed!

    I bring up SOX because it is intertwined. Just because you separate these two issues for us to read does not mean that is the way it must be. The reason people are being asked to pay is because of SOX.

    I'll say it again. The iPod Touch is not under subscription accounting. The iPhone and Apple TV are.

    There is precedence for this action - at least 5 years worth: 1998 - 2003, probably goes back further. Companies were recognizing revenue from products and services at the time of sale without it being finished or delivered, resulting in hairy accounting practices.


    I think its funny that Apple has been doing this with explanation for years but people cannot remember why. Remember that whole ordeal with them enabling 802.11n on Macbooks that were not advertised as having 802.11n?
    Thick headed?

    Again, SOX has ZERO to do with the reason people are being asked to pay. I'm afraid you do not understand SOX, and no sane person on the planet would agree with that viewpoint. That is like saying the reason there are ratings on video games is due to the Patriot Act.

    SOX has everything to do accounting/financials/controls/accountability, and nothing to do with marketing or product feature sets.
    01-20-2008 09:56 AM
  19. mikec#IM's Avatar
    Now know what the ordeal was behind the lack of Blu-Ray drives in the Pro machines.

    Apple's new "Remote Disc" feature included with MacBook Air doesn't support streaming of high-bandwidth media yet. Just learned of this Friday.

    One can assume that it will eventually; at which point we will see Blu-Ray drives as a Build-To-Order option along with an Apple TV update to utilize external BluRay drives to pull in streaming movies (we can hope anyway) just as the MacBook Air pulls in content from remote discs.
    I think he was taking about the Pro Macbooks, not the Macbook Air.

    Maybe it's just as simple as costs and the market penetration of Blu-Ray (or HD DVD for that matter.)
    01-20-2008 10:01 AM
  20. archie's Avatar
    Thick headed?

    Again, SOX has ZERO to do with the reason people are being asked to pay. I'm afraid you do not understand SOX, and no sane person on the planet would agree with that viewpoint. That is like saying the reason there are ratings on video games is due to the Patriot Act.

    SOX has everything to do accounting/financials/controls/accountability, and nothing to do with marketing or product feature sets.
    If Apple Inc. (or any other company for that matter) sells a product, and if it then adds a feature to the product, Apple can be held liable for improper accounting if it accepts revenue from the product at the time of sale given that it hasnt finished delivering the product at that point.

    Get it? It becomes implicit that the product was not finished at the time of introduction.


    I'll try explaining it differently.
    You are paying $20 for a certain added value, namely the ability to write notes, quickly check the weather, quickly track stocks, check your location, get driving directions, check traffic and send and receive email. Now, you have to admit that any sane person looking at this can perceive the value and be able to say, "yeh, all those features are worth $20".

    The GAAP says Apple MUST account for separate (added) values that software brings to products previously sold. Those things I listed above weren't just a software upgrade, they were substantial added values that were not promised in any way shape or form in the original product. It is in essence a whole new product now.

    And HEY, what do you know - the iPod Touch now has a different SKU #.
    01-20-2008 01:16 PM
  21. archie's Avatar
    I think he was taking about the Pro Macbooks, not the Macbook Air.
    No, I'm pretty sure "he" was talking about the unforeseen reasoning of Mac Pros not including Blu-Ray drives built in. The reason I'm pretty sure is because that "he" is ME.


    Maybe it's just as simple as costs and the market penetration of Blu-Ray (or HD DVD for that matter.)
    Or... maybe it's that the whole advantage and reasoning of the MacBook Air relies on the stability of the "Remote Disc" feature. Who would pay that much for a feature - the main feature - that didn't work correctly, am I right?
    01-20-2008 01:23 PM
  22. cardfan's Avatar
    All these other companies..not being GAAP compliant..but Apple is on the ipod Touch? LOL

    Try again.

    The whole issue is Apple charging its customers for a software update. GAAP doesn't force them to do so. How they record or recognize revenue or expenses is irrelevant to me.
    01-20-2008 02:51 PM
  23. Rene Ritchie's Avatar
    Pure speculation and labeled as such:

    Could there be some sort of usage or license fee paid to Skyhook per unit for the Wi-Fi Google Maps location service? If so, could the subscription accounting model for iPhone allow this to be expensed against the future recognition for iPhone, and against the immediately recognized revenue of iPod Touches sold from this point on, but for previously (already) recognized iPod Touches, be passed on to the consumer so Apple can expense against the upgrade charge?

    Again, pure speculation, and even if there is anything to it, no doubt the debate will rage over whether or not Apple could/should eat it as a gift to early adapters, or how (much) they chose to charge either way...
    01-20-2008 03:30 PM
  24. mikec#IM's Avatar
    If Apple Inc. (or any other company for that matter) sells a product, and if it then adds a feature to the product, Apple can be held liable for improper accounting if it accepts revenue from the product at the time of sale given that it hasnt finished delivering the product at that point.

    Get it? It becomes implicit that the product was not finished at the time of introduction.


    I'll try explaining it differently.
    You are paying $20 for a certain added value, namely the ability to write notes, quickly check the weather, quickly track stocks, check your location, get driving directions, check traffic and send and receive email. Now, you have to admit that any sane person looking at this can perceive the value and be able to say, "yeh, all those features are worth $20".

    The GAAP says Apple MUST account for separate (added) values that software brings to products previously sold. Those things I listed above weren't just a software upgrade, they were substantial added values that were not promised in any way shape or form in the original product. It is in essence a whole new product now.

    And HEY, what do you know - the iPod Touch now has a different SKU #.
    The only thing I "get" is that you have no fargin idea what you are talking about.

    "Not finished at the time of introduction" - GMAFB. We're talking about a phone/PMP here, not jet airplane. An item is sold. Revenue realized. End of story.

    Again, SOX has nothing to do with it. GAAP has nothing to do with it. This is just Apple seeing a chance to make more money! Plain and simple! Saying Apple MUST charge for the "update" is laughable.

    The Touch having a different SKU means nothing - SKUs change all the time for the "same" products; obviously, you know just about as much about retail as you do about regulatory rules and accounting practices - NOTHING.

    Keep swinging and talking with confidence. Pretty soon we'll get to the point where it's Bush's fault that Apple has to charge $20 and HD streaming isn't ready....
    01-20-2008 03:40 PM
  25. mikec#IM's Avatar
    No, I'm pretty sure "he" was talking about the unforeseen reasoning of Mac Pros not including Blu-Ray drives built in. The reason I'm pretty sure is because that "he" is ME.


    Or... maybe it's that the whole advantage and reasoning of the MacBook Air relies on the stability of the "Remote Disc" feature. Who would pay that much for a feature - the main feature - that didn't work correctly, am I right?
    I thought you liked being referred to in the thrid person....

    Macbook Pro and MBA are two different beasts.

    "Remote disc" is soooooo amazing (not) Only the Apple RFD could make network file transfer and drive sharing seem new and exciting. This has been done for a long long time.
    01-20-2008 03:53 PM
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