1. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    It doesn't do Flash, does it? Therefore, NOT the full internet.

    What he(Jobs) really meant was most HTML based sites will show as intended, but that sounds less glamourous.
    09-07-2007 02:42 AM
  2. TazUk's Avatar
    What he(Jobs) really meant was most HTML based sites will show as intended, but that sounds less glamourous.
    In which case my Nokia N770 does the full internet and as it has a higher res screen I can see the full width of most sites
    09-07-2007 06:24 AM
  3. cardfan's Avatar
    Does enough of the internet for me. Makes the Treo look dumb in comparison.
    09-07-2007 11:07 AM
  4. oalvarez's Avatar
    ^ i will agree wholeheartedly. silly even.
    09-07-2007 11:32 AM
  5. AnteL0pe's Avatar
    You're a fool if you think that the iPhone gets the "full" internet. Stop believing everything that you see on TV commercials. LOL
    It's the best internet experience i've ever seen on a phone. Adding flash would pretty much seal the deal.
    09-07-2007 11:42 AM
  6. zelgo#IM's Avatar
    Okay, instead of "full" internet, I should have said "pretty close to full" internet. You happy? Some of you sound like a bunch of sourpusses because the Treo isn't the coolest thing around anymore!

    I don't have an iPhone, but whenever I play with my friend's iPhone, I can be assured an full internet page (JUST like on my laptop) will come up (minus flash, of course).

    In something the size of the iPhone--that's awesome! I don't have to wonder if somehow Blazer may or maynot have a mobile version of some site and wtyhere it will take my password.

    iPhone has the true internet. I bet apple will get mobile flash--and then it will be incredible!

    the Nokia N770 is pretty cool, but I'd rather not have to carry that as well as a phone separately in my pocket.
    09-07-2007 12:10 PM
  7. volwrath's Avatar
    Okay, instead of "full" internet, I should have said "pretty close to full" internet. You happy? Some of you sound like a bunch of sourpusses because the Treo isn't the coolest thing around anymore!
    So you can FTP/Telnet/Sling/IRC/WoW with that thing? Man I might have to look into getting one..
    09-07-2007 12:31 PM
  8. AnteL0pe's Avatar
    So you can FTP/Telnet/Sling/IRC/WoW with that thing? Man I might have to look into getting one..
    I can scp, ssh and irc via web apps. Of course scp is limited to moving stuff around, but when combined with ssh thats fine for editing pages and moving them. I have no use for sling or wow and i dont know many people who would still use telnet over ssh or ftp over scp.
    09-07-2007 12:53 PM
  9. Mike Overbo's Avatar
    So you can FTP/Telnet/Sling/IRC/WoW with that thing? Man I might have to look into getting one..
    I don't think you can sling yet; the slingbox (to my knowledge) doesn't support the h.264 standard or something like that. Phil, the sling employee on the forums hasn't been exactly warm towards the iPhone, though I don't think he's here in any official capacity. See here, for example. At any rate, he could be a resource to ask if you're wondering about sling support on the iPhone.

    FTP, telnet, IRC, and WoW: yes, you can do them all on the iPhone.
    09-07-2007 02:09 PM
  10. Levyesq#IM's Avatar
    If you purchased your iPhone with an American Express card, they are taking claims and trying to work out a credit - no promises.
    09-07-2007 04:10 PM
  11. AnteL0pe's Avatar
    ....and WoW...
    That looks truly painful.
    09-07-2007 04:19 PM
  12. mikec#IM's Avatar
    True, not cash back. I'm sure that would be an accounting nightmare for Apple (book sales in one quarter and take a charge the next).

    As you say, it's better than nothing, especially with memory & component prices dropping daily.
    It has nothing to do with an accounting nightmare...they could do that just fine. It's that they want you spending it on high margin accessories. More cash in thier pocket (or less cash lost.)
    09-07-2007 04:24 PM
  13. mikec#IM's Avatar
    as for the $100 offer i think that what Apple did was the right thing to do by their customers regardless if it was "planned" (as someone mentioned) or not. i think it was to safeguard their goodwill or at least help remedy what goodwill they may have lost/suffered in the recent iPhone $200 price cut. what they did was right and so many companies wished they could do the same (Palm is one that couldn't).
    But Jobs' initial repsonse shows what he thinks of customers.

    He has his billions, so to him, all his customers shoul have move to burn.
    09-07-2007 04:25 PM
  14. oalvarez's Avatar
    no, he understands us consumers to live in a free market economy, he just knows how to best capitalize on it. palm and its officers on the other hand, don't.
    09-07-2007 06:52 PM
  15. mikec#IM's Avatar
    no, he understands us consumers to live in a free market economy, he just knows how to best capitalize on it. palm and its officers on the other hand, don't.
    Your comment makes no sense.

    In a free market he wouldn't give anything back...or more appropriately, he would have priced the device initially to the "proper" markets level to achieve maximum sales.

    Not sure why the comparison to Palm; it obvious they are no clued into their customers (or maybe they are - their customers are the phone carriers.)

    Jobs has a bit of arrogance toward customers, which customers don't really appreciate (esp. the super fanboys.) But what's funnier, is the fanboys are S&M type - they love the guy, but then will hate him as well.
    09-07-2007 07:44 PM
  16. oalvarez's Avatar
    they make a lot of sense, i'm sorry you don't understand them.

    Mr. Jobs didn't force anyone to spend $600 on the original devices. He and his company can do as they see fit in terms of the rebates. Apple has most probably profited from the initial sales and will most probably continue to profit from sales at the reduced prices. Remember, supply and demand forces aren't usually static, they are dynamic, they obviously were right in charging what they did at inception as they sold hundreds of thousands at that price point. I'm sure they'll continue to sell millions more at the current price levels.

    why not compare palm to apple in terms of its officer's judgement calls? it's perfectly acceptable, it's easy to show palm's misgivings and weaknesses in circumstances such as these.

    jobs is arroganct towards its customers? really? how so? is he so arrogant that he keeps america away from buying its products? what are you really trying to say? i personally don't base my buying decisions by who runs a company...do you? if you own a Treo, then you surely do not.
    09-07-2007 08:27 PM
  17. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    He's been proven to be pretty callous toward those who already paid, until a backlash happens. A while ago there was something about him telling certain Powerbook customers ":censored: 'em" basically. I wish I remembered the deatils better but it had something to do with buyers not being able to get service on defective laptops, but the defect was an actual manufacturer defect, so they should have corrected that no matter what.
    09-07-2007 09:14 PM
  18. oalvarez's Avatar
    but surprisingly america continues to buy their products (such as yourself). i'm not familiar with the example which you point to, but i'm sure there's an explanation for it. maybe it wasn't that important and that is why you don't remember the details surrounding it?
    09-07-2007 10:19 PM
  19. Kupe#WP's Avatar
    jobs is arroganct towards its customers? really? how so? is he so arrogant that he keeps america away from buying its products?
    It's actually quite impressive if not entertaining:
    1. Steve overcharges for his device, the fanboys line up in droves to contribute to Steve's wealth.
    2. A separate, yet very large portion of the market votes with its wallet and stays away from the device in droves. Sales in July are stagnant after the late June fanboy explosion.
    3. Steve recognizes he's not going to make the promised sales goals (perhaps he overestimated the size of the fanboy-base?) and makes the right business decision - he chops the price...a lot.
    4. Sales will probably pick up again with the lowered price, but the fanboys become fickle fanboys and wonder, "what the heck?!?" Early buyers who couldn't afford the 8 GB model now see it being sold for less than they paid for their puny 4 GB model! Stock analysts can't help but notice their original estimates of high-volume, high-margin product sales indicate they were just plain high when they made them.
    5. Steve, in a stroke of genius, offers the fanboys the opportunity to get half of their overcharge money back...sort of. They must use their "compensation" to buy overpriced accessories in the Apple (boss man's) stores. The 4GB device holders stand in stunned silence, their lips silently mouthing, "but...but...but..."

    Is that about how it went down? You're right - Steve's not really arrogant. Callous maybe, overconfident certainly, but he's actually very sweet on us stockholders.

    i personally don't base my buying decisions by who runs a company...do you?
    Depends on what I know about who runs the company. If **** Cheney returns to Halliburton, I think I'll look elsewhere for my "country-building" products. But in general, a company's products reflect the spirit/personality/innovation of it's driving force(s). In Apple's case this is clearly Steve Jobs and he has a pretty good nose for high-quality, feature-laden products. Of course, Steve hasn't always been perfect!
    09-07-2007 10:55 PM
  20. mikec#IM's Avatar
    they make a lot of sense, i'm sorry you don't understand them.

    Mr. Jobs didn't force anyone to spend $600 on the original devices. He and his company can do as they see fit in terms of the rebates. Apple has most probably profited from the initial sales and will most probably continue to profit from sales at the reduced prices. Remember, supply and demand forces aren't usually static, they are dynamic, they obviously were right in charging what they did at inception as they sold hundreds of thousands at that price point. I'm sure they'll continue to sell millions more at the current price levels.

    why not compare palm to apple in terms of its officer's judgement calls? it's perfectly acceptable, it's easy to show palm's misgivings and weaknesses in circumstances such as these.

    jobs is arroganct towards its customers? really? how so? is he so arrogant that he keeps america away from buying its products? what are you really trying to say? i personally don't base my buying decisions by who runs a company...do you? if you own a Treo, then you surely do not.
    Um, they don't make sense in the context of the thread.

    It wasn't about Jobs forcing someone to buy something (rediculous, although so of the Mac faithful do act like addicts).

    Supply and demand is at work; supply is exceeding demand, so they chop the price to spur demand.

    My comment was about Jobs's comments about his customers. While I have no love for Palm execs, I don't see why you insist on comparing them in this specific incident, as Palm is not involved.

    If you want to see Jobs arrogance, just read the OP I made or read the articles. He pooh-poohed them (users) initially. It just shows his attitude, that's all.

    As for buing products based on who runs the company, that is rediculous as well. Not sure why you brought it up.

    Perceptio is reality in the mass marketplace, and the perception is that Apple hosed early adopters.

    But I could really care less about that. I think the real story is that the iPhone is not selling as well as expected, and they really need to boost sales - hence the price cut.
    09-08-2007 12:56 AM
  21. mikec#IM's Avatar
    but surprisingly america continues to buy their products (such as yourself). i'm not familiar with the example which you point to, but i'm sure there's an explanation for it. maybe it wasn't that important and that is why you don't remember the details surrounding it?
    Appologist never cease to amaze me...
    09-08-2007 12:57 AM
  22. mikec#IM's Avatar
    It's actually quite impressive if not entertaining:
    1. Steve overcharges for his device, the fanboys line up in droves to contribute to Steve's wealth.
    2. A separate, yet very large portion of the market votes with its wallet and stays away from the device in droves. Sales in July are stagnant after the late June fanboy explosion.
    3. Steve recognizes he's not going to make the promised sales goals (perhaps he overestimated the size of the fanboy-base?) and makes the right business decision - he chops the price...a lot.
    4. Sales will probably pick up again with the lowered price, but the fanboys become fickle fanboys and wonder, "what the heck?!?" Early buyers who couldn't afford the 8 GB model now see it being sold for less than they paid for their puny 4 GB model! Stock analysts can't help but notice their original estimates of high-volume, high-margin product sales indicate they were just plain high when they made them.
    5. Steve, in a stroke of genius, offers the fanboys the opportunity to get half of their overcharge money back...sort of. They must use their "compensation" to buy overpriced accessories in the Apple (boss man's) stores. The 4GB device holders stand in stunned silence, their lips silently mouthing, "but...but...but..."

    Is that about how it went down? You're right - Steve's not really arrogant. Callous maybe, overconfident certainly, but he's actually very sweet on us stockholders.

    Depends on what I know about who runs the company. If **** Cheney returns to Halliburton, I think I'll look elsewhere for my "country-building" products. But in general, a company's products reflect the spirit/personality/innovation of it's driving force(s). In Apple's case this is clearly Steve Jobs and he has a pretty good nose for high-quality, feature-laden products. Of course, Steve hasn't always been perfect!
    Ding ding ding...we have a winner!
    09-08-2007 01:00 AM
  23. oalvarez's Avatar
    Um, they don't make sense in the context of the thread.

    It wasn't about Jobs forcing someone to buy something (rediculous, although so of the Mac faithful do act like addicts).

    Supply and demand is at work; supply is exceeding demand, so they chop the price to spur demand.

    My comment was about Jobs's comments about his customers. While I have no love for Palm execs, I don't see why you insist on comparing them in this specific incident, as Palm is not involved.

    If you want to see Jobs arrogance, just read the OP I made or read the articles. He pooh-poohed them (users) initially. It just shows his attitude, that's all.

    As for buing products based on who runs the company, that is rediculous as well. Not sure why you brought it up.

    Perceptio is reality in the mass marketplace, and the perception is that Apple hosed early adopters.

    But I could really care less about that. I think the real story is that the iPhone is not selling as well as expected, and they really need to boost sales - hence the price cut.
    sure, whatever you say.
    09-08-2007 08:20 AM
  24. AnteL0pe's Avatar
    1. Steve overcharges for his device, the fanboys line up in droves to contribute to Steve's wealth.
    You've contradicted yourself. Things are worth what people are willing to pay. Apparently many thousands of people had no issues with the iPhone's price.

    2. A separate, yet very large portion of the market votes with its wallet and stays away from the device in droves. Sales in July are stagnant after the late June fanboy explosion.
    Hahaha, "fanboy explosion" or "unprecedented release weekend sales" its really a matter of which way you want to slant your statement. My question is why do you insist on slanting your statement? Presenting actual facts will make your argument stronger.

    3. Steve recognizes he's not going to make the promised sales goals (perhaps he overestimated the size of the fanboy-base?) and makes the right business decision - he chops the price...a lot.
    Apple clearly has a sales goal it wants to hit and it's worth it to them to slash the price. Standard business decision IMHO.

    4. Sales will probably pick up again with the lowered price, but the fanboys become fickle fanboys and wonder, "what the heck?!?" Early buyers who couldn't afford the 8 GB model now see it being sold for less than they paid for their puny 4 GB model! Stock analysts can't help but notice their original estimates of high-volume, high-margin product sales indicate they were just plain high when they made them.
    Clearly if Apple planned on hitting their sales goal without a planned price drop then they overestimated demand. If, on the other hand, they had planned a price drop all along then i don't see the issue.

    5. Steve, in a stroke of genius, offers the fanboys the opportunity to get half of their overcharge money back...sort of. They must use their "compensation" to buy overpriced accessories in the Apple (boss man's) stores. The 4GB device holders stand in stunned silence, their lips silently mouthing, "but...but...but..."
    Again, the slant you are putting on your statements invalidates the small bit of rationality they contain. You cant blanket the entire early adopter market as "fanboys" thats just silly. And, again, the iPhone wasn't overpriced.
    09-08-2007 01:14 PM
  25. Kupe#WP's Avatar
    Again, the slant you are putting on your statements invalidates the small bit of rationality they contain. You cant blanket the entire early adopter market as "fanboys" thats just silly. And, again, the iPhone wasn't overpriced.
    Oh my - I think someone took that fictional narrative just a little bit too seriously. OK. You're right. There was (probably) one early adopter who wasn't a fanboy. There. Are you less troubled now? :bow:

    Apple has a product marketing plan that contains very specific sales goals for the iPhone. Clearly the current pace of sales is falling short of those goals. Apple drops the price of the iPhone in order to "pick up the pace" on sales. OK, are you with me so far? Good - here's the easy part:

    Apple believes one factor in the stagnant sales is the price of the device - it's too high for the market, so it has been lowered. It's not about what YOU or a bunch of other "early adopters" (at least one of which was NOT a fanboy) paid for the device - it's about how APPLE perceives their marketing plan is progressing. They clearly thought it was overpriced so they made a correction - time will tell if the phone is still overpriced or not.

    Why to fanboys always think it's about THEM? Not you, of course, Antelope. I'm only referring to early-adopting, over-price paying fanboys.
    09-08-2007 05:38 PM
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