1. zeze22's Avatar
    "Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction." Albert Einstein
    07-29-2007 08:51 PM
  2. mikec#IM's Avatar
    So is he for or against the iPhone?

    That quote cuts two ways.
    07-29-2007 09:13 PM
  3. Kupe#WP's Avatar
    "Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction." Albert Einstein
    To be certain, Albert is saying the addition of fancy interfaces, "real physics" scrolling, a web browser that crashes a lot, and a battery completely impervious to normal handling by competent users could have been better handled with simplicity? He's right! :thumbsup:
    07-29-2007 11:57 PM
  4. surur's Avatar
    I believe Jobs actually lives by that Barnum misquote "There's a sucker born every minute".

    Surur
    07-30-2007 02:28 AM
  5. zeze22's Avatar
    I don't think anyone can say, if being truly objective and honest, that Mac OS-X is snake oil to Window's Rogaine.

    Say what you want about the iphone (for me, I love it, even though it's incomplete), but when I switched from Windows to Mac in the early 2000's, I was struck by how no reasonable person could possibly argue that windows was better.

    There are very few products you come across that are so clearly superior than Mac to Windows. From ease of use to the absence of crashing, there is no honest argument here, although there's always alot of hot air expelled by Windows-supporters.

    It was kind of liking stepping out of a Model T and being transported into the future to a 2007 Ferrari.

    The iPhone is very similar in that respect; in many ways it is that much better and advanced- it just needs a few additions and a little tweaking.
    07-30-2007 06:41 AM
  6. surur's Avatar
    I don't think anyone can say, if being truly objective and honest, that Mac OS-X is snake oil to Window's Rogaine.

    Say what you want about the iphone (for me, I love it, even though it's incomplete), but when I switched from Windows to Mac in the early 2000's, I was struck by how no reasonable person could possibly argue that windows was better.

    There are very few products you come across that are so clearly superior than Mac to Windows. From ease of use to the absence of crashing, there is no honest argument here, although there's always alot of hot air expelled by Windows-supporters.

    It was kind of liking stepping out of a Model T and being transported into the future to a 2007 Ferrari.

    The iPhone is very similar in that respect; in many ways it is that much better and advanced- it just needs a few additions and a little tweaking.
    You actually have me laughing out loud. I have a bridge I can sell you too.

    Surur
    07-30-2007 06:49 AM
  7. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    Except for the fact that I can't use on a Mac a few products I really like and use a lot(phones, MP3 players besides iPod of course), and also a few programs, I'd have been over there permanently years ago myself. Too bad many products refuse to be Mac friendly.

    But the iPhone really should have had a few more things upon release, seriously.
    07-30-2007 06:56 AM
  8. stroths's Avatar
    I don't think anyone can say, if being truly objective and honest, that Mac OS-X is snake oil to Window's Rogaine.

    Say what you want about the iphone (for me, I love it, even though it's incomplete), but when I switched from Windows to Mac in the early 2000's, I was struck by how no reasonable person could possibly argue that windows was better.

    There are very few products you come across that are so clearly superior than Mac to Windows. From ease of use to the absence of crashing, there is no honest argument here, although there's always alot of hot air expelled by Windows-supporters.

    It was kind of liking stepping out of a Model T and being transported into the future to a 2007 Ferrari.

    The iPhone is very similar in that respect; in many ways it is that much better and advanced- it just needs a few additions and a little tweaking.
    To say one is better in a general sense is pretty biased. It's more like the Mac (or iPhone) is superior for your needs. I have used both operating systems and both products and each have their uses and serve their target audiences. Depending on ones needs should dictate which is "better" for that individual user.

    Also keep in mind that the MacOS is more of a GUI for a customized build of BSD. It was a really smart move because the underlying efficiency and power of BSD was much more advanced than what they were using previously. Microsoft has been smart to borrow a lot of features and code from BSD and Linux as well. Not anywhere near what Apple did (unfortunately), but a good idea regardless.
    07-30-2007 06:56 AM
  9. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    Honestly, I think Mac is a lot cleaner than Windows. I wish we could CHOOSE which of the bloatware Windows includes to install, instead of it already being pre-installed and then you can't seem to get it out of the ROM. It really :censored: me off that about 200MB or so of my hard drive is reserved for stuff I can't use, but I can't remove it from the ROM apparently. The uninstaller seems to be unavailable for certain programs, all MSFT programs, but anything not really from MSFT can be uninstalled even if in the ROM. Hmm...
    07-30-2007 07:15 AM
  10. surur's Avatar
    zeze22, I would love to hear in which ways the iPhone is decades ahead WM phones, because of the top of my head I could give you 10 ways in which its way behind.

    Surur
    07-30-2007 07:28 AM
  11. marcol's Avatar
    Bill Gates weighs in on the iPhone:

    ...the center of gravity in the computer industry has dramatically shifted toward software, he said. Why do you like your iPod, your iPhone, your Xbox 360, your Google Search? he said. The real magic sauce is not the parts that we buy for the Xbox, or the parts that Apple buys for iPhones, its the software that goes into it.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/30/te...l?pagewanted=2
    07-30-2007 08:15 AM
  12. surur's Avatar
    ... and the iPhone's software is woefully inadequate.

    Surur
    07-30-2007 08:27 AM
  13. marcol's Avatar
    ... and the iPhone's software is woefully inadequate.
    It's 'magic'. Must be true if the Chairman of Microsoft says so
    07-30-2007 08:43 AM
  14. surur's Avatar
    It's 'magic'. Must be true if the Chairman of Microsoft says so
    Sorry, its just true all by itself. Dont pretend I suddenly changed my position. Is the lack of MMS software software or hardware? It the lack of search software or hardware? No CE button? No ability to change font sizes in Safari etc etc etc.

    MobileOSX is just plain immature.

    Surur
    07-30-2007 08:52 AM
  15. marcol's Avatar
    More on Bill and iPhone:

    Lastly, Gates spent some time on natural user interfaces, which he considers “one of the most revolutionary things going on” and Microsoft apparently will be spending more time on. A “Surface” device was briefly demonstrated with future applications – but in terms of a current success in natural user interfaces, Gates had to point to competitor’s products: Nintendo’s Wii game console as well as Apple’s iPhone.
    http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/33096/113/
    07-30-2007 08:52 AM
  16. marcol's Avatar
    Sorry, its just true all by itself. Dont pretend I suddenly changed my position. Is the lack of MMS software software or hardware? It the lack of search software or hardware? No CE button? No ability to change font sizes in Safari etc etc etc.
    I can't help thinking you're taking this discussion far more seriously than I am! I wasn't pretending you'd changed your position at all. I apologise if I gave you that impression, but I can't for the life of me see how I did. Relax. This is just a bit of fun...
    07-30-2007 08:56 AM
  17. surur's Avatar
    I can't help thinking you're taking this discussion far more seriously than I am! I wasn't pretending you'd changed your position at all. I apologise if I gave you that impression, but I can't for the life of me see how I did. Relax. This is just a bit of fun...
    It's 'magic'. Must be true if the Chairman of Microsoft says so
    And you meant what by this line then?

    Surur
    07-30-2007 09:00 AM
  18. marcol's Avatar
    And you meant what by this line then?

    Surur
    I meant Bill Gates said it's 'magic'? From the quote I posted above, i.e.:

    Second, the center of gravity in the computer industry has dramatically shifted toward software, he said. Why do you like your iPod, your iPhone, your Xbox 360, your Google Search? he said. The real magic sauce is not the parts that we buy for the Xbox, or the parts that Apple buys for iPhones, its the software that goes into it.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/30/te...l?pagewanted=2
    07-30-2007 09:02 AM
  19. surur's Avatar
    So I think I figured out what you were saying. Correct me if I am wrong, but in response to me saying the software is inadequate, you are saying the software is not just good, its magic, because Bill Gates says so?

    Sorry, I decide for myself whats magic or not, and the iPhone ain't it (unless you mean its full of smoke and mirrors of course).

    Surur
    07-30-2007 09:10 AM
  20. marcol's Avatar
    So I think I figured out what you were saying. Correct me if I am wrong, but in response to me saying the software is inadequate, you are saying the software is not just good, its magic, because Bill Gates says so?
    Yes, sort of ... except that it was just a bit of a joke (hence the the smiley). It was meant to imply that Gates thought it was magic not me.

    Sorry, I decide for myself whats magic or not, and the iPhone ain't it.
    Me too. I think it's great in some ways but lacking in others.
    07-30-2007 09:18 AM
  21. marcol's Avatar
    Duplicate post
    07-30-2007 09:18 AM
  22. marcol's Avatar
    Anyway, rest easy, Surur, it doesn't look like Bill will be getting one:

    ...he said that he'd like to play around with one, but wouldn't get one to actually use. He's quite happy with the current Windows Mobile offerings
    http://blogs.msdn.com/embedded/archi...ill-gates.aspx
    07-30-2007 09:19 AM
  23. surur's Avatar
    Anyway, rest easy, Surur, it doesn't look like Bill will be getting one:


    http://blogs.msdn.com/embedded/archi...ill-gates.aspx
    Sigh. Again, I dont care what Bill Gates uses. I believe for the longest time he did not even use a WM phone. His opinions can give an idea of the priority and direction of the company, but shoot me when I take what he says personally.

    Surur
    07-30-2007 09:31 AM
  24. marcol's Avatar
    Sigh. Again, I dont care what Bill Gates uses. I believe for the longest time he did not even use a WM phone.
    I'm sorry you seem to have completely missed the intended humour. Can't be fixed now I guess

    His opinions can give an idea of the priority and direction of the company
    When he mentioned the iPhone, Gates was actually talking about trends in the computing industry. Here's another report of the same gathering:

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...nalysts27.html

    This is the iPhone bit:

    The most underappreciated trend, Gates said, is the emergence of more natural user interfaces such as speech recognition, touch and vision.

    He complimented two competitors' products the Apple iPhone and Nintendo Wii for taking advantage of touch and motion-sensing interfaces.
    Not sure how much this is an indicator of where Microsoft is going with WM of course. Apart from anything, he is about to step down.
    07-30-2007 09:57 AM
  25. CountBuggula's Avatar
    Umm....we are actually talking about PCs here right? Let's see:

    Honestly, I think Mac is a lot cleaner than Windows. I wish we could CHOOSE which of the bloatware Windows includes to install, instead of it already being pre-installed

    You can. This isn't so much of an issue against Windows as the individual hardware manufacturers that pre-load junk on your computer. If you don't like it, use your Windows installation CDs (of the OS, not the "system restore" CDs) and install from scratch. Voila, clean windows and you can choose exactly what you want on it.
    and then you can't seem to get it out of the ROM. It really :censored: me off that about 200MB or so of my hard drive is reserved for stuff I can't use, but I can't remove it from the ROM apparently. The uninstaller seems to be unavailable for certain programs, all MSFT programs, but anything not really from MSFT can be uninstalled even if in the ROM. Hmm...
    You do realize we're not talking about phones here? The only ROM on a PC is in the BIOS, which I'm quite certain you're not talking about since you're referring to space on the hard drive. What you're talking about is a special partition on the hard drive that many manufacturers set aside to use as a backup restore. It has basically the same stuff that those restore CDs used to have on them and will put your system back to "factory fresh" like when you bought it. If you don't want it there (and have already used the above method to install windows yourself anyways) download partition magic, delete that little extra partition, and resize your main partition to make use of the extra space.

    Again, this doesn't have anything to do with Windows itself, but instead it's a problem with the dirty little tricks the PC builders (HP, Dell, etc) like to do with their computers.
    07-30-2007 11:01 AM
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