1. Iceman6's Avatar
    I believe Jobs actually lives by that Barnum misquote "There's a sucker born every minute".

    Surur
    I gotta disagree with you there, man. It is pretty obvious that the iPhone is a personal device to His Steveness. He built the phone HE wanted.
    07-30-2007 11:11 AM
  2. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    Umm....we are actually talking about PCs here right? Let's see:

    [/COLOR]
    You can. This isn't so much of an issue against Windows as the individual hardware manufacturers that pre-load junk on your computer. If you don't like it, use your Windows installation CDs (of the OS, not the "system restore" CDs) and install from scratch. Voila, clean windows and you can choose exactly what you want on it.

    You do realize we're not talking about phones here? The only ROM on a PC is in the BIOS, which I'm quite certain you're not talking about since you're referring to space on the hard drive. What you're talking about is a special partition on the hard drive that many manufacturers set aside to use as a backup restore. It has basically the same stuff that those restore CDs used to have on them and will put your system back to "factory fresh" like when you bought it. If you don't want it there (and have already used the above method to install windows yourself anyways) download partition magic, delete that little extra partition, and resize your main partition to make use of the extra space.

    Again, this doesn't have anything to do with Windows itself, but instead it's a problem with the dirty little tricks the PC builders (HP, Dell, etc) like to do with their computers.
    Yes, I am talking about PCs. It was early, not enough coffee yet, sorry if I messed up the terms, LOL! I can't get Microsoft Works out of the system and I'm not good at tinkering with computers. So Partition Magic could reclaim the space?
    07-30-2007 12:40 PM
  3. CountBuggula's Avatar
    Yes, I am talking about PCs. It was early, not enough coffee yet, sorry if I messed up the terms, LOL! I can't get Microsoft Works out of the system and I'm not good at tinkering with computers. So Partition Magic could reclaim the space?
    Haha, ok I apologize for jumping down your throat then. I'm pretty sure Partition Magic has a trial version you can use to get your space back, if not it's worth it to own a copy(although it doesn't seem fair when Linux has several very good open-source partition editors that are just as good if not better...but that's a different argument entirely).

    As for getting rid of Works, if it's not under "Change or Remove Programs" in the Add or Remove Programs section, try looking under the "Add/Remove Windows Components" tab. Sometimes microsoft programs get thrown in there.
    07-30-2007 12:54 PM
  4. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    It is under "add/remove programs" but the uninstaller is missing or can't be found. Do I need to reinstall it from the recovery disk to get the uninstaller?

    Norton left some nice uninstallable things on my computer too. Is the only way to get rid of these things to reinstall then try uninstalling? Or is there a better way? Norton tends to leave stuff behind even when you uninstall.
    07-30-2007 01:13 PM
  5. CountBuggula's Avatar
    It is under "add/remove programs" but the uninstaller is missing or can't be found. Do I need to reinstall it from the recovery disk to get the uninstaller?

    Norton left some nice uninstallable things on my computer too. Is the only way to get rid of these things to reinstall then try uninstalling? Or is there a better way? Norton tends to leave stuff behind even when you uninstall.
    Ugh, Norton is vile and evil. They don't play nice with other software and are just about impossible to remove completely. Interestingly enough, they actually provide tools on their site to help completely remove Norton products (makes you wonder why they don't just include that in the uninstalls) but you have to go look for them. I'll save you the trouble though:

    Norton Removal Tool
    07-30-2007 02:50 PM
  6. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    Thanks! Any advice for MSFT Works, since the uninstaller is missing there too?
    07-30-2007 03:00 PM
  7. stroths's Avatar
    If you want a really clean and customizable install of Windows, check out nlite (or vlite for vista).
    07-30-2007 03:48 PM
  8. zeze22's Avatar
    zeze22, I would love to hear in which ways the iPhone is decades ahead WM phones, because of the top of my head I could give you 10 ways in which its way behind.

    Surur
    I was talking about Mac OSX, and bellieve that the iPhone will be there with a few additions.

    I think everyone has priorities when it comes to operating systems, but there are a few characteristics that I think most users regard to be at the top of the list in terms of importance:

    -stability
    -ease of use
    -both of the above as related to 3d party software
    -corruptibility

    I don't think anyone can dispute that a Mac possesses far superior qualifications in the above attributes.

    -They DO NOT crash. Period. Windows machine crash hourly.
    -I don't think I need to get into ease of use in regard to Mac versus windows.

    -Third party software adaptability- I have never installed or uninstalled ANY program on OSX in longer than five seconds, even Window's massive Microsoft Office software.

    I have never found bits and pieces of (what I believed was) uninstalled software on Mac. Installs and deletions are clean and seamless. Installtions into Windows is a lengthy and labyrinthene process.

    Whenever you install something in Windows, it feels like you are unleashing reproducing termites into your cellar. You know that how ever much you exterminate, they will always be there.

    Corruptibility? This goes hand-in-hand with the Windows labyrinth. How many millions or billions have had their machines grind to a halt with spyware. This doesnt and CANNOT exist in Mac's linear and simple storage system.

    Again, say what you will about the iPhone, but the Mac OS-X to Windows argument is, to me, silly,
    07-30-2007 04:54 PM
  9. stroths's Avatar
    Macs don't crash? You gotta be kidding? That statement alone hurts your whole argument as Macs can and do crash just like any operating system out there.

    Windows Machines crash hourly? That is yet another misconception. I have a Windows 2003 server that's been running for almost a year without a reboot or crash. I rarely reboot my desktop Vista PC either. Windows can crash just like any other OS, but hourly is not even close to accurate.

    Macs can't get spyware? omg...seriously...are you just messing with Surur?
    07-30-2007 05:00 PM
  10. surur's Avatar
    I was talking about Mac OSX, and bellieve that the iPhone will be there with a few additions.

    I think everyone has priorities when it comes to operating systems, but there are a few characteristics that I think most users regard to be at the top of the list in terms of importance:

    -stability
    -ease of use
    -both of the above as related to 3d party software
    -corruptibility

    I don't think anyone can dispute that a Mac possesses far superior qualifications in the above attributes.

    -They DO NOT crash. Period. Windows machine crash hourly.
    -I don't think I need to get into ease of use in regard to Mac versus windows.

    -Third party software adaptability- I have never installed or uninstalled ANY program on OSX in longer than five seconds, even Window's massive Microsoft Office software.

    I have never found bits and pieces of (what I believed was) uninstalled software on Mac. Installs and deletions are clean and seamless. Installtions into Windows is a lengthy and labyrinthene process.

    Whenever you install something in Windows, it feels like you are unleashing reproducing termites into your cellar. You know that how ever much you exterminate, they will always be there.

    Corruptibility? This goes hand-in-hand with the Windows labyrinth. How many millions or billions have had their machines grind to a halt with spyware. This doesnt and CANNOT exist in Mac's linear and simple storage system.

    Again, say what you will about the iPhone, but the Mac OS-X to Windows argument is, to me, silly,
    http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse....gi?u=macs_cant

    Surur
    07-30-2007 05:03 PM
  11. mobileman's Avatar
    Macs don't crash? You gotta be kidding? That statement alone hurts your whole argument as Macs can and do crash just like any operating system out there.

    Windows Machines crash hourly? That is yet another misconception. I have a Windows 2003 server that's been running for almost a year without a reboot or crash. I rarely reboot my desktop Vista PC either. Windows can crash just like any other OS, but hourly is not even close to accurate.

    Macs can't get spyware? omg...seriously...are you just messing with Surur?
    All I Know, is that I have been using Vista for about a month now on a brand new lenovo T60 laptop. It is awful. Every day I want to pull my hair out. It is painfully slow, takes forever to reboot, and doesn't work nearly as good as Windows XP. Open letter to Microsoft.....

    Your new operating system should be better than your old one.
    07-30-2007 05:14 PM
  12. zeze22's Avatar
    Macs don't crash? You gotta be kidding? That statement alone hurts your whole argument as Macs can and do crash just like any operating system out there.

    Windows Machines crash hourly? That is yet another misconception. I have a Windows 2003 server that's been running for almost a year without a reboot or crash. I rarely reboot my desktop Vista PC either. Windows can crash just like any other OS, but hourly is not even close to accurate.

    Macs can't get spyware? omg...seriously...are you just messing with Surur?
    I've been through five macs from power-pc to intel. I have never experienced a crash on mac. At worst, you get a delay pinwheel and that happens very, very rarely.
    07-30-2007 06:19 PM
  13. zeze22's Avatar
    ...hmmmm; enlightening- profanity, insults, half-truths and intellectual dishonesty; but it seems its not the mac users who are doing all the talking on this forum.
    07-30-2007 06:20 PM
  14. CountBuggula's Avatar
    -They DO NOT crash. Period. Windows machine crash hourly.
    Ah, yes, the oft-cited "Macs never crash" argument.

    It's not just Macs, too. I used to work at a tech bench where we had iPods returned daily that needed to be refurbished.

    Windows PCs do not crash hourly. The Blue Screen of Death hasn't been seen since Windows ME (if it comes up in XP it's due to a hardware malfunction or driver problem, and nothing to do with the OS or 3rd party software) and when application do crash they just crash to the desktop just like in a Mac.

    So please don't get into another Mac/PC argument. You'll just look more foolish.
    07-30-2007 08:11 PM
  15. zeze22's Avatar
    Ah, yes, the oft-cited "Macs never crash" argument.

    It's not just Macs, too. I used to work at a tech bench where we had iPods returned daily that needed to be refurbished.

    Windows PCs do not crash hourly. The Blue Screen of Death hasn't been seen since Windows ME (if it comes up in XP it's due to a hardware malfunction or driver problem, and nothing to do with the OS or 3rd party software) and when application do crash they just crash to the desktop just like in a Mac.

    So please don't get into another Mac/PC argument. You'll just look more foolish.
    OK.
    07-30-2007 08:19 PM
  16. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    Norton crashed my Mac. I removed it immediately. Probably because it was a memory hog though, which is also why I dumped the Windows version too.
    07-30-2007 08:28 PM
  17. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    All I Know, is that I have been using Vista for about a month now on a brand new lenovo T60 laptop. It is awful. Every day I want to pull my hair out. It is painfully slow, takes forever to reboot, and doesn't work nearly as good as Windows XP. Open letter to Microsoft.....

    Your new operating system should be better than your old one.
    How much RAM do you have? You need 2GB minimum and 4GB is preferred, I understand. I hate that it requires so much memory to run smoothly. It is probably way more bloated than XP, due to all that multi-media stuff included.
    07-30-2007 08:32 PM
  18. Kupe#WP's Avatar
    How much RAM do you have? You need 2GB minimum and 4GB is preferred, I understand. I hate that it requires so much memory to run smoothly. It is probably way more bloated than XP, due to all that multi-media stuff included.
    I have 4 GB with my Vista machine ($84 more than just 2 GB) and I highly recommend that amount. Vista, in general, runs twice the processes as a similarly configured XP machine and reserves about 4 times the memory to do that. You'll easily eat up 1 GB of RAM just booting to your desktop.

    However, FWIW, Vista hasn't crashed as much as my MacBook - I've had 1 Vista crash (lock up) since March and about 15 MacBook lockups since May. Although this may sound weird, I still feel the Mac OS is more stable - the crashes come from messing around with the configuration a lot and porting software to the Mac that was intended for Linux. I'm more "gentle" with Vista just because I've learned my lesson with Windows' durability over the years.
    07-30-2007 10:28 PM
  19. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    Maybe I'll just stick with XP. I would love to try Vista but the RAM requirement is steep. I use laptops, and they generally ship with a lot less RAM than desktops. In fact, I think only the newer ones allow you to upgrade to 4GB RAM.
    07-30-2007 10:49 PM
  20. Kupe#WP's Avatar
    Maybe I'll just stick with XP. I would love to try Vista but the RAM requirement is steep. I use laptops, and they generally ship with a lot less RAM than desktops. In fact, I think only the newer ones allow you to upgrade to 4GB RAM.
    I strongly recommend XP to laptop users. Not only are the memory constraints generally tighter, but Vista has some serious issues with excess power consumption compared to XP installations. I stripped Vista off my Vaio-UX380N and replaced it with an XP OEM I had laying around. Turned that little powder-puff pixie into a completely different beast!
    07-30-2007 10:54 PM
  21. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    Maybe after Vista Service pack 1 or 2, they can help solve that problem.

    But now all the new laptops have Vista. Guess I have to wait to use them until they address the memory issue.
    Or at the very least, look at an immediate RAM upgrade.
    07-30-2007 11:05 PM
  22. mikec#IM's Avatar
    Vista (32 bit) with 3GB RAM works very well...faster than XP and more stable.

    Definitely manages memory better.
    07-30-2007 11:38 PM
  23. braj's Avatar
    I wish I had gotten a Macbook instead of a Vista laptop. Another 'D'oh!' in my life. Even when I know better I do dumb stuff like that.
    07-31-2007 12:17 AM
  24. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    I think it's OK to get the MacBook anyway, maybe even a used one so you can save some money. Two laptops are good in case one crashes badly, goes bad with hardware(like the hard drive dying or something), or gets stolen. You won't be left in the cold for your work. JMO though, but I get paranoid after listening to other people, LOL!
    07-31-2007 05:31 AM
  25. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    Vista (32 bit) with 3GB RAM works very well...faster than XP and more stable.

    Definitely manages memory better.
    3GB? I'll try it on the new one. I never use 64-bit anyway.

    Most semi-old laptops only go up to 2GB I think. I have a good one from 2005, it has the specs for Vista except for the RAM. I think I can put in 2GB tops.Thanks for the suggestion! :thumbsup:
    07-31-2007 05:35 AM
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