1. Merlyn_3D's Avatar
    ...Well after using them for a week, I agree wholeheartedly that this device will change the mobile industry, but the lack of 3G as well as other current shortcomings of the iPhone just make it an easier for my gf and I to go back to our treo 750's. For one thing, call quality (over bluetooth as well) seems much more solid on the treo, as does signal strength. The lack of a 3G option was a real disappointment as well, as whenever we got anything less than 4-5 bars on the iPhone safari just seemed to stall while downloading a webpage.

    PIM functions, while so incredibly cool looking and pretty, just aren't up to par with other smartphones right now. A prime example is that when you have an appointment in your iPhone calendar with a reminder, the reminder alerts you once with a tone that's not nearly loud enough, but never seems to remind you again. No repeating alerts, no snooze, no dismissing. Funny thing is that all these functions seem to be in the alarm clock, but not the calendar alerts....what happened here apple? Also, you should be able to pick your tones for things like emails, messaging, calendars, etc.

    I also noticed that bluetooth on the iPhone was not nearly as strong as on the treo 750. With the 750, we could be on our headsets and have a wall between me and my phone with no static, with the iPhone, the other end hears a garbly voice while I would hear static. I'm also severely disappointed in the lack of an OBEX profile for bluetooth. I couldn't even transfer my vCard to a coworker the other day or receive one from him. Every other smartphone does this. Tethering is also not enabled, and I doubt it will ever be. What's the point of Bluetooth 2.0+EDR if it doesn't make use of it at all? A2DP should have been available as well.


    I hate that I can't trust the signal bars on the iPhone. They're not a good representation of what signal you're actually getting. At one point I stood in one spot and the signal bars jumped from 5 to 2 to 5 to 1 then dropped the call.

    I have no complaints about the keyboard, in fact I loved it. It's an even better keyboard to use than the treo keyboard after you've had a couple beers! I do wish it made an appearance in your contacts screen though, so you could search through them easily.

    My last real big issue with the iPhone is really just the restricted feeling of it. You get an iphone and sure you can put your sim card in another phone and use data and sms, but everytime you call voicemail you'll get a silly text message, MMS will no longer be provisioned, and the whole point of SIM cards on GSM really seems to be lost. When you put your sim into any phone other than the iphone, it feels like all the features just aren't enabled because of this. Oh, and I don't like the fact that the iPhone won't give you the standard GSM network options that all other GSM phones seem to give you, like the ability to change how long to wait before the network forwards your call to voicemail. I had to use another phone to change these options when I should have been able to do it from my iPhone. The iPhone should just be another GSM phone, lock it if you want, but all this proprietary plan crap just stinks, both switching to it and then switching away from it. It's so much more trouble than it really needs to be.

    Oh, I should also add....the antenna being on the bottom of the phone is a questionable design. I wouldn't know where else to put it, but many many people hold the phone there, and if you actually go to the field test screen of the iphone, you'll notice at least a 10dBm difference between when your hand is holding the phone at the bottom versus holding it at the top. I think this is the cause of some of the dropped calls I had, but even holding it at the top the RF didn't seem as strong as the 750, which held a call when the iPhone could not.

    And apple should have released an update this week to increase the in call volume. The earpiece is not loud enough (for the phone being the killer app on this phone), and the speakerphone volume is quite simply laughable.

    Also, Apple really needs to open up to 3rd parties. Imagine the kinds of applications you'd see on the iPhone when this happens. The iPhone will NEVER reach anywhere close to its full potential until any developer can write any application they want for it (just like the Palm). With the functionality (or lack thereof) of the iphone right now, I just can't justify $600+tax on it.

    I will be back, though, for version 2 of the iPhone when they put in (hopefully) GPS and 3G.


    If anyone wants one, gimme a PM. I'm in the SF Bay Area.
    07-08-2007 10:32 AM
  2. navyyang's Avatar
    WOW...

    I think iPhone2 should better
    07-08-2007 10:58 AM
  3. bcaslis#IM's Avatar
    Sorry it didn't work for you. I respect your opinion but I have to say that my view versus the 750 is the complete opposite. I think the iPhone just works better than the 750 in every way except 3G data speeds.
    07-08-2007 09:41 PM
  4. JNGold's Avatar
    Sorry it didn't work for you. I respect your opinion but I have to say that my view versus the 750 is the complete opposite. I think the iPhone just works better than the 750 in every way except 3G data speeds.
    For overall general use as a phone and as a multimedia device I would agree 100%. However, the iPhone is lacking even basic PIM To-do checklists, a decent calendar, etc. Another ridiculous shortcoming is the lack of ability to delete multiple email items at once.

    If it wasn't for a couple of WM apps that I have come to rely on, I'd go out and get my own. For now, at least, I'll play around with my wife's.
    07-08-2007 11:04 PM
  5. bcaslis#IM's Avatar
    Well it depends on what you want. I actually like the calendar on the iPhone much better than the one on the Treo. I agree that it needs todos, but for me it's not a big deal. I would mainly use a todo as a reminder and I can put that in the calendar as is.

    As for deleting multiple emails, I never found the method in Versamail or pocket outlook very fast. Swiping a finger to delete an email is fast enough for me as is although I can see how someone would want a different method.

    I'm not saying it's perfect but that I like it better. I'm surprised about the bluetooth comments. I definitely find the bluetooth works much better on the iPhone than any Treo I've owned. I can finally connect to my car without having a crash everytime I reconnect. That alone is a huge plus for me.

    For overall general use as a phone and as a multimedia device I would agree 100%. However, the iPhone is lacking even basic PIM To-do checklists, a decent calendar, etc. Another ridiculous shortcoming is the lack of ability to delete multiple email items at once.

    If it wasn't for a couple of WM apps that I have come to rely on, I'd go out and get my own. For now, at least, I'll play around with my wife's.
    07-08-2007 11:50 PM
  6. Certs's Avatar
    I agree about the bluetooth, I've had no problems other than the lack of a2dp.

    But mass deletion of emails really does suck. outlook you can finger swipe all of the messages then delete 50 at once. Not happening on the iphone
    07-09-2007 12:32 AM
  7. techiegirl's Avatar
    I agree 100%.

    Sorry it didn't work for you. I respect your opinion but I have to say that my view versus the 750 is the complete opposite. I think the iPhone just works better than the 750 in every way except 3G data speeds.
    07-09-2007 01:15 AM
  8. Djhyper66's Avatar
    the more I use to the iphone the more I like it over the treo 750.

    The treo 750 has alot of issues!! Touch screen problems! If you use your 750 phone alot, your touch screen might go!!!! I had 2 treo 750 die out one me!!

    ALso while on a call with the phone to my ear, the treo like to open a whole lot of random programs. Also sometime when your treo in my pocket it calls randoom people in my phone book.

    With the iphone I dont have that problem, when phone locked. or even forgot to lock, cause it locks itself.

    Also with the treo it sometime freezes when I try to dial a call, while a incoming call is coming in. That just a small list of problems I had.
    07-09-2007 10:35 AM
  9. renn#IM's Avatar
    Experiences of two other 650 users....
    07-09-2007 11:30 AM
  10. oalvarez's Avatar
    yep, versus all other Treos that i've owned i'm liking this device given it's simplicity and user experience. i suppose many like to a To-Do list but like BCaslis says i really don't require one and the Notes application is just fine for how few times i use it (i too place reminders in the calendar). given that it's not replacing my Blackberry for business purposes i'm not too bent out of shape about being able to delete more than 1 email at a time (i will admit, it should have that ability, i'm sure it will be addressed in soon time).

    bluetooth? just fine....links right up to both autos.
    07-09-2007 12:21 PM
  11. braj's Avatar
    I didn't really consider the huge range of things I do with my Treo until the iPhone came out and I see how limited it actually is. Some people see this as liberating I guess but I see it as limiting. Imagine if you couldn't install any 3rd party apps on your desktop.

    The thing with Todos is that I have roll-over tasks, untimed tasks, categorized tasks, projects really with a bunch of tasks. All these things the iPhone won't be able to do. It actually is huge smartphone functionality. I guess the bottom line is it isn't a smartphone so those looking for power user functionality or a real business device will have to wait for the iPhone to mature or a miricle from Palm. I'll do everything I can to avoid getting a WM device ever so Apple, Symbian, and Palm are about my only choices. C'mon Apple, maybe make an iPhone Pro.
    07-09-2007 02:28 PM
  12. cmaier's Avatar
    Ah, so here's the magic question - which happens first:

    - Apple rolls out enough firmware updates and third party software support to enable the iphone to be a reasonable all-in-one device for the majority of power users

    - Palm rolls out a palm-os II device that is stable, in a modern form factor, with a bug-fix cycle that doesn't require waiting forever for firmware updates

    Unfortunately we'll have to wait and see, but one's attitude toward switching to iphone is probably largely dependent on what one thinks is the answer to that question.

    I am also wondering if, when palm-os II comes out, the third party guys are all going to have already gone elsewhere. I wouldn't even have considered iphone if not for the Folio debacle.
    07-09-2007 02:39 PM
  13. braj's Avatar
    I wouldn't even have considered iphone if not for the Folio debacle.
    Yeah, way to go with building our confidence there, eh?
    07-09-2007 02:55 PM
  14. dstrauss#IM's Avatar
    Ah, so here's the magic question - which happens first:

    - Apple rolls out enough firmware updates and third party software support to enable the iphone to be a reasonable all-in-one device for the majority of power users

    - Palm rolls out a palm-os II device that is stable, in a modern form factor, with a bug-fix cycle that doesn't require waiting forever for firmware updates

    Unfortunately we'll have to wait and see, but one's attitude toward switching to iphone is probably largely dependent on what one thinks is the answer to that question.

    I am also wondering if, when palm-os II comes out, the third party guys are all going to have already gone elsewhere. I wouldn't even have considered iphone if not for the Folio debacle.
    Good thoughts all, but I'd bet Apple updates before Palm gets out of the chute.
    07-09-2007 05:04 PM
  15. oalvarez's Avatar
    I Imagine if you couldn't install any 3rd party apps on your desktop.
    would the desktop come with pre-loaded programs or applications? if you're trying to compare the iphone with a desktop computer i don't think that's fair. if you require 3rd party apps choose a device that will allow for such if the iPhone doesn't work for you. not sure of the point you're trying to make.

    The thing with Todos is that I have roll-over tasks, untimed tasks, categorized tasks, projects really with a bunch of tasks. All these things the iPhone won't be able to do. It actually is huge smartphone functionality. I guess the bottom line is it isn't a smartphone so those looking for power user functionality or a real business device will have to wait for the iPhone to mature or a miricle from Palm. I'll do everything I can to avoid getting a WM device ever so Apple, Symbian, and Palm are about my only choices. C'mon Apple, maybe make an iPhone Pro.
    exactly, maybe it's not a smartphone and that's ok. i personally don't give a hoot how anyone classifies any of the devices out there. if it does what you want it to do, great, if not, onto the next! in it's current state the iPhone is not a real business type device and at least i didn't buy it for such. that's why i carry a Blackberry Mon thru Friday. will it be great to have real business type functionality on the iPhone? of course! just as long as it doesn't take away from the current user experience.
    07-09-2007 05:22 PM
  16. braj's Avatar
    Good thoughts all, but I'd bet Apple updates before Palm gets out of the chute.
    I'd be shocked if they didn't. Palm better get their act together quickly because barring some (currently serious) issues with the iPhone, I'm pretty sure I'll be ready to switch in a year or so. That's all the time Palm has to prove themselves. That said, I love my Treo and it does everything I need today, but tomorrow is another story. Apple seems way more in touch with tomorrow.
    07-09-2007 05:22 PM
  17. LupeValenz's Avatar
    If you hold the Phone like "L" does, you should get good reception ^_^.
    07-10-2007 01:45 PM
  18. archie's Avatar
    ...Well after using them for a week, I agree wholeheartedly that this device will change the mobile industry, but the lack of 3G as well as other current shortcomings of the iPhone just make it an easier for my gf and I to go back to our treo 750's. For one thing, call quality (over bluetooth as well) seems much more solid on the treo, as does signal strength. The lack of a 3G option was a real disappointment as well, as whenever we got anything less than 4-5 bars on the iPhone safari just seemed to stall while downloading a webpage.
    I am getting around 240kbps, just 60kbps short of the baseline of UTMS 3G speeds, on average. I'm happy.

    PIM functions, while so incredibly cool looking and pretty, just aren't up to par with other smartphones right now. A prime example is that when you have an appointment in your iPhone calendar with a reminder, the reminder alerts you once with a tone that's not nearly loud enough, but never seems to remind you again. No repeating alerts, no snooze, no dismissing. Funny thing is that all these functions seem to be in the alarm clock, but not the calendar alerts....what happened here apple? Also, you should be able to pick your tones for things like emails, messaging, calendars, etc.
    Agreed. I don't know if you mentioned this but the thing that bugs me is no To-Do list. This is the big issue for me. The only work around, which is really dumb, is to schedule a calendar event but this of course only partially functions as a to-do list. You can set alarms for different events though.

    I also noticed that bluetooth on the iPhone was not nearly as strong as on the treo 750. With the 750, we could be on our headsets and have a wall between me and my phone with no static, with the iPhone, the other end hears a garbly voice while I would hear static. I'm also severely disappointed in the lack of an OBEX profile for bluetooth. I couldn't even transfer my vCard to a coworker the other day or receive one from him. Every other smartphone does this. Tethering is also not enabled, and I doubt it will ever be. What's the point of Bluetooth 2.0+EDR if it doesn't make use of it at all? A2DP should have been available as well.
    This would suck if you like this untethered freedom. I could see myself quickly taking to it though haven't ever owned bluetooth headphones before. The only way this will happen is if Apple releases a pair themselves that have the iPod identity of white cords accompanying them in some manner. I don't think they are willing to give up an important marketing tactic at this point.

    On the other hand, they could make a set of stereo bluetooth headphones with the white cords coming out of each ear and looping to the center where the bluetooth reciever would be (a bluetooth necklace). They could then incorporate a lanyard so that you could remove them temporarily and just hang them around your neck. This would solve the problem of needlessly eliminating the highly visible walking white earbuds that they rely upon for advertisement and marketing.

    Perhaps I will make this suggestion, you know by writing and requesting it using the old fashion USPS snail mail. I say this I guess as encouragement to get others to do so who may be concerned with this issue.


    I hate that I can't trust the signal bars on the iPhone. They're not a good representation of what signal you're actually getting. At one point I stood in one spot and the signal bars jumped from 5 to 2 to 5 to 1 then dropped the call.
    I purchased an AT&T SIM to test out the reception in my area before getting iPhone. No complaints here yet.
    07-10-2007 03:27 PM
  19. Certs's Avatar
    I have peaked dl time in the 200s, but I average low 100/high double digits. But web pages load much faster than I thought.

    I was disappointed with the lack of a2dp, as I posted, but the more I use the phone the less I care. After using it on multiple wm phones, I see how much CPU it uses and feel its better for my battery. I should be receiving the high-quality headphones apple sells in the store tomorrow, I can't wait to hear how they sound...
    07-10-2007 11:18 PM
  20. Merlyn_3D's Avatar
    I am getting around 240kbps, just 60kbps short of the baseline of UTMS 3G speeds, on average. I'm happy.

    ...

    I purchased an AT&T SIM to test out the reception in my area before getting iPhone. No complaints here yet.
    Well 240kbps is not a number I would trust....where are you doing your speed tests? The maximum for EDGE (according to a quick wikipedia lookup) is 236.8 kbit/s....and that's assuming strong signal. My numbers here in the bay area were more around 140-180kbps, and still are if I force my 750 to EDGE....UMTS/HSDPA, however, gives me an average of around 900kbps....plenty for streaming video even.

    As for reception on AT&T itself, I have no complaints about that, rather my complaint was with how the iPhone displays reception. To me it's pretty inaccurate, especially since when you hold it to a phone that's known for strong RF, like a treo 750, you see 2 bars on the treo and 5 bars on the iPhone. The bars on the iPhone don't even start going down, it seems, until the signal received dips below -100dBm, which is really low (at least in my experiences with the field test menu.
    07-11-2007 01:44 AM
  21. bcaslis#IM's Avatar
    Which headphones are those? Do you mean the v-mode?

    I have peaked dl time in the 200s, but I average low 100/high double digits. But web pages load much faster than I thought.

    I was disappointed with the lack of a2dp, as I posted, but the more I use the phone the less I care. After using it on multiple wm phones, I see how much CPU it uses and feel its better for my battery. I should be receiving the high-quality headphones apple sells in the store tomorrow, I can't wait to hear how they sound...
    07-11-2007 02:55 PM
  22. Certs's Avatar
    Which headphones are those? Do you mean the v-mode?
    Yeah, they should actually be waiting for me at home tonight. You tried them?
    07-11-2007 03:23 PM
  23. bcaslis#IM's Avatar
    No, I haven't tried them, I was curious if anyone else had. I saw an online review that said they don't include the click switch in the apple headphones so while you can use them to talk on the phone also, you can't use them to answer the phone.

    Might be worth it if they are way better than Apple's but I'm reluctant to try without seeing more reviews.

    Yeah, they should actually be waiting for me at home tonight. You tried them?
    07-11-2007 03:50 PM
  24. specimen38's Avatar
    Merlyn_3D,

    Sounds like you really wanted it to work. I read the review and it seemed straight foward, honest and insightful. You brought up some things that I had not yet heard about regarding Bluetooth functionality. It also sounds like you'd buy another iPhone in a year or two when it matures. The signal bar and call volume thing could be a real annoyance. I had that volume problem on my Treo 650 for months. I'm in the Bay Area also. EDGE networking is hit or miss in this region. I can think of a few places where EDGE speeds are as good as they can get: Oakland Coliseum Arena, Oakdale Street/Bayview SF, Upper Market SF, Bay Street Emeryville...just to name a few.

    Again....thanks for a good review.

    ...Well after using them for a week, I agree wholeheartedly that this device will change the mobile industry, but the lack of 3G as well as other current shortcomings of the iPhone just make it an easier for my gf and I to go back to our treo 750's. For one thing, call quality (over bluetooth as well) seems much more solid on the treo, as does signal strength. The lack of a 3G option was a real disappointment as well, as whenever we got anything less than 4-5 bars on the iPhone safari just seemed to stall while downloading a webpage.

    PIM functions, while so incredibly cool looking and pretty, just aren't up to par with other smartphones right now. A prime example is that when you have an appointment in your iPhone calendar with a reminder, the reminder alerts you once with a tone that's not nearly loud enough, but never seems to remind you again. No repeating alerts, no snooze, no dismissing. Funny thing is that all these functions seem to be in the alarm clock, but not the calendar alerts....what happened here apple? Also, you should be able to pick your tones for things like emails, messaging, calendars, etc.

    I also noticed that bluetooth on the iPhone was not nearly as strong as on the treo 750. With the 750, we could be on our headsets and have a wall between me and my phone with no static, with the iPhone, the other end hears a garbly voice while I would hear static. I'm also severely disappointed in the lack of an OBEX profile for bluetooth. I couldn't even transfer my vCard to a coworker the other day or receive one from him. Every other smartphone does this. Tethering is also not enabled, and I doubt it will ever be. What's the point of Bluetooth 2.0+EDR if it doesn't make use of it at all? A2DP should have been available as well.


    I hate that I can't trust the signal bars on the iPhone. They're not a good representation of what signal you're actually getting. At one point I stood in one spot and the signal bars jumped from 5 to 2 to 5 to 1 then dropped the call.

    I have no complaints about the keyboard, in fact I loved it. It's an even better keyboard to use than the treo keyboard after you've had a couple beers! I do wish it made an appearance in your contacts screen though, so you could search through them easily.

    My last real big issue with the iPhone is really just the restricted feeling of it. You get an iphone and sure you can put your sim card in another phone and use data and sms, but everytime you call voicemail you'll get a silly text message, MMS will no longer be provisioned, and the whole point of SIM cards on GSM really seems to be lost. When you put your sim into any phone other than the iphone, it feels like all the features just aren't enabled because of this. Oh, and I don't like the fact that the iPhone won't give you the standard GSM network options that all other GSM phones seem to give you, like the ability to change how long to wait before the network forwards your call to voicemail. I had to use another phone to change these options when I should have been able to do it from my iPhone. The iPhone should just be another GSM phone, lock it if you want, but all this proprietary plan crap just stinks, both switching to it and then switching away from it. It's so much more trouble than it really needs to be.

    Oh, I should also add....the antenna being on the bottom of the phone is a questionable design. I wouldn't know where else to put it, but many many people hold the phone there, and if you actually go to the field test screen of the iphone, you'll notice at least a 10dBm difference between when your hand is holding the phone at the bottom versus holding it at the top. I think this is the cause of some of the dropped calls I had, but even holding it at the top the RF didn't seem as strong as the 750, which held a call when the iPhone could not.

    And apple should have released an update this week to increase the in call volume. The earpiece is not loud enough (for the phone being the killer app on this phone), and the speakerphone volume is quite simply laughable.

    Also, Apple really needs to open up to 3rd parties. Imagine the kinds of applications you'd see on the iPhone when this happens. The iPhone will NEVER reach anywhere close to its full potential until any developer can write any application they want for it (just like the Palm). With the functionality (or lack thereof) of the iphone right now, I just can't justify $600+tax on it.

    I will be back, though, for version 2 of the iPhone when they put in (hopefully) GPS and 3G.


    If anyone wants one, gimme a PM. I'm in the SF Bay Area.
    07-11-2007 08:05 PM
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