1. cmaier's Avatar
    Archie dude. Pay attention.

    I DO have to turn the screen on, because unless I grab my phone out of my pocket and look at it right away, it has already turned off.

    Second, the "summary" screen only displays little numbers in red circles. It doesn't, for example, show me the subject line of an email, the first line of an SMS, the title of an appointment all in one place like you can get on a WM phone or via a plug-in on palm phones.

    The way it is now, this is how it works for me:

    10:41 PM - phone buzzes. I am in a meeting, and talking.
    10:45 PM - phone buzzes again
    10:52 PM - someone else is talking, I can take a moment to look at my phone.
    10:52 PM - I press home.
    10:52 PM - I swipe my finger on the screen.
    10:52 PM - I press home again, because I'm in the middle of my weather screen.
    10:52 PM - I see a little red circle with the number 14 on it on email. Hmmm. What did the number say before the meeting? Did I get an email? Is it important? Hmm.
    10:52 PM - I see a little red circle with the number 4 on it on SMS. Hmmm. What did the number say before the meeting? DId I receive an SMS?
    10:53 PM - I start launching programs to see whether I got anything new, and what the new thing was, and whether it was important.

    This is not exactly the apex of friendly user-interface design. On many phones I can press one button and see my five most recent emails, upcoming appointments, and missed alerts in one place. If I click on an email summary, it launches the email program so i can read it. I'm not forced to click the screen over and over to get to a place where I can even figure out what exactly I missed.
    07-10-2007 07:58 PM
  2. archie's Avatar
    Archie dude. Pay attention.

    I DO have to turn the screen on, because unless I grab my phone out of my pocket and look at it right away, it has already turned off.

    Second, the "summary" screen only displays little numbers in red circles. It doesn't, for example, show me the subject line of an email, the first line of an SMS, the title of an appointment all in one place like you can get on a WM phone or via a plug-in on palm phones.

    The way it is now, this is how it works for me:

    10:41 PM - phone buzzes. I am in a meeting, and talking.
    10:45 PM - phone buzzes again
    10:52 PM - someone else is talking, I can take a moment to look at my phone.
    10:52 PM - I press home.
    10:52 PM - I swipe my finger on the screen.
    10:52 PM - I press home again, because I'm in the middle of my weather screen.
    10:52 PM - I see a little red circle with the number 14 on it on email. Hmmm. What did the number say before the meeting? Did I get an email? Is it important? Hmm.
    10:52 PM - I see a little red circle with the number 4 on it on SMS. Hmmm. What did the number say before the meeting? DId I receive an SMS?
    10:53 PM - I start launching programs to see whether I got anything new, and what the new thing was, and whether it was important.

    This is not exactly the apex of friendly user-interface design. On many phones I can press one button and see my five most recent emails, upcoming appointments, and missed alerts in one place. If I click on an email summary, it launches the email program so i can read it. I'm not forced to click the screen over and over to get to a place where I can even figure out what exactly I missed.
    Thanks for explaining. I didn't realize you were wanting email summaries and appointment viewings AND SMS viewing all on the same page. I suppose that would be nice for some people.

    Perhaps you should stay with the Windows Mobile phone.
    07-10-2007 08:13 PM
  3. oalvarez's Avatar
    CMaier, not sure if this would be of help....you could turn the phone lock to off and forego having to "swipe" to minimize one less icon push. no, it won't replace a blinking LED but it might allow you to quickly check your home screen in a meeting. i suppose it's only an icon push to either mail or phone to see your new msgs or missed phone calls. not trying to sway you, just trying to offer some help.

    regards
    07-10-2007 08:39 PM
  4. Fry-man22's Avatar
    Thanks for explaining. I didn't realize you were wanting email summaries and appointment viewings AND SMS viewing all on the same page. I suppose that would be nice for some people.

    Perhaps you should stay with the Windows Mobile phone.
    To be completely accurate with the rest of their posts, the individual you quoted can apparently discern all this from an LED, as this as what they were lamenting the lack of.

    While I admit the LED my have been a convieniance if you wanted an app running to control it and notify you with it, but not to the extent it would change the outcome of the example of the iPhone example scenario above. Given the same steps with the LED you would still need to fire up the screen on any other device.

    You can check every app in 10-15 seconds anway...
    07-10-2007 08:41 PM
  5. bcaslis#IM's Avatar
    I'm not sure if you were trying to be helpful or sarcastic with that reply. I don't agree with lots of the requests for features, but there are certainly places where improvements could be made.

    Thanks for explaining. I didn't realize you were wanting email summaries and appointment viewings AND SMS viewing all on the same page. I suppose that would be nice for some people.

    Perhaps you should stay with the Windows Mobile phone.
    07-10-2007 08:59 PM
  6. cmaier's Avatar
    My previous phone was palm, not windows mobile, fwiw.

    And I'm not dissing on iphone. Just bringing up places where improvements could be made.
    07-10-2007 09:03 PM
  7. Kupe#WP's Avatar
    And I'm not dissing on iphone. Just bringing up places where improvements could be made.
    You miss archie's most important point - NOTHING can be done to make the iPhone better. Ironic how he even seems to have trouble getting along with his fellow aficionados.
    07-10-2007 09:15 PM
  8. Playberry1010's Avatar
    Missing sync does allow you to view multiple categories in a calendar and even to see which event goes to which category. But you still assign a default calendar that any new event on the device gets put into when you sync. Happens on both Palm and Window Mobile versions. Even the iSync conduit Apple supplied for Palm Desktop did this. That what makes me think it's some sort of sync services issue. It would be really good if they fixed this, but it's not too bad to deal with. I just know that when I open iCal to look at any items in my "iPhone" calendar and reassign them.
    Thanks for the clarification. Guess if I had gotten Missing Sync, I would have found that out! I used the iSync conduit on my Treo synchronizations. Right now I just have a default unfiled category I am sending my iPhone calendar items to. LOL, good idea to simply rename it to "iPhone". I agree it's not to bad to deal with, as I had been doing so all the time anyway.
    07-10-2007 10:48 PM
  9. Certs's Avatar
    You miss archie's most important point - NOTHING can be done to make the iPhone better. Ironic how he even seems to have trouble getting along with his fellow aficionados.
    Seriously...

    If someone states a flaw, its a god-damn flaw, no argument needed. The email alert is GARBAGE, absolute trash, the vibrate is hardly felt when in a pouch on my waist sometimes, it doesn't repeat, AND I CAN'T CHANGE IT!

    It has become second nature for me to turn the iphone on intermittently to check if I have new email/sms.

    But that doesn't bother me, actually. If I could set a normal (or better yet, custom. WOW that would be nice) ringtone for email/sms it would suffice. But when apple screws you, they stick it in all the way....
    07-10-2007 10:54 PM
  10. braj's Avatar
    I've used Agendus (paid for versions 6, 7, and 8), I much prefer iCal on the iPhone - even with the restriction of not having a to-do list (damnit Apple, give me to-dos).
    Agendus is on a completely different level as far as functionality, you can't even compare the calendar in the iPhone at all, it just isn't aimed at doing the same things. My comment about stability was with Agendus BTW, not iPhone. I both love and hate Agendus because its features are so rich but Iambic has got issues with releasing half-baked apps.

    If you prefer iCal you probably don't have much to keep track of and wouldn't need Agendus anyway. Todos at the very least are a necessity for me.
    07-10-2007 11:23 PM
  11. braj's Avatar
    Forgive me for questioning this last statement, but how can you say that? Two weeks ago you were all over my case about trusting Apple and the company's dedication to its product.
    I was all over you for being a fool crying that no one respected you. It had nothing at all to do with Apple or the iPhone.
    07-10-2007 11:24 PM
  12. oalvarez's Avatar
    If you prefer iCal you probably don't have much to keep track of and wouldn't need Agendus anyway. Todos at the very least are a necessity for me.
    in fairness, not having too much to keep track of could also be a very good thing. in other words, one could actually fuction quite successfully without such utility tools. not everyone needs to be forcefully reminded of what they have to do. it just doesn't seem fair to suggest that he/she may not have much to keep track of. afterall, maybe they keep track of their doings with an old pad of paper and pencil.
    07-11-2007 12:18 AM
  13. braj's Avatar
    in fairness, not having too much to keep track of could also be a very good thing. in other words, one could actually function quite successfully without such utility tools. not everyone needs to be forcefully reminded of what they have to do. it just doesn't seem fair to suggest that he/she may not have much to keep track of. after all, maybe they keep track of their doings with an old pad of paper and pencil.
    Sure, having too many things to do that requires something beyond your own memory isn't ideal. Just I have a 20 year span of time that is a bit fuzzy for me, let alone what I have to do tomorrow. Thanks Lucy, Mary, and Jerry . Good times
    07-11-2007 12:30 AM
  14. cmaier's Avatar
    Now of course this doesn't help if its set to vibrate, but the screen does come on and let you see the SMS message, or see who is calling (and you can choose to ignore and shut ringer/buzzer off or send directly to voicemail), or whatever.
    Hey, big guy. Twice while i had someone in my office the phone buzzed, and the screen did NOT come on. I had to press home, then slide my finger to unlock in order to see what had happened (10 new email messages - i have it set to poll every 15 minutes, and i guess there were new messages each time). So does this only work for sms and phone? Why the inconsistency?


    As long as I'm pining for new features, I would love a view like chatter's summary view where all messages from different accounts can appear, color coded, in one list. Adding to the chatter fun, in chatter I can set a separator to show up between mail from different days, making it a lot easier to see when mail arrived (that is, instead of:

    <summary> <time/date>
    <summary> <time/date>

    it shows up:

    #########Today#########
    <summary>
    ...
    #########<date>########
    <summary>
    <summary>
    #########<date>########
    <summary>
    <summary>


    And, of course, instead of having to go back and forth to go from account to account, the messages are all in one place (and responding to a message automatically uses the proper SMTP account).
    07-11-2007 02:28 PM
  15. oalvarez's Avatar
    CMaier, are your needs currently met by current WM or Palm OS systems and devices or do you dislike the current product lineup?

    cheers!
    07-11-2007 11:46 PM
  16. cmaier's Avatar
    Hmm. I think lots of devices meet my needs, but not all meet my desires :-)

    I'm also a bit of a UI geek from my developer days, so I love to nitpick.

    I hate WM. I find it kludgey and unintuitive in lots of ways. I prefer palm, but palm froze several years ago and hasn't done anything new since, and hasn't kept up. I code for both WM and palm, and simulating multitasking on palm is a nightmare. So is multimedia.

    The palm form factor is also dated - for what it does, the treo should be half as thick.

    I'm enjoying my iphone quite a bit. I think with a few fixes it would be nearly perfect for me. So I nitpick :-)
    07-12-2007 12:27 AM
  17. MacUser's Avatar
    Hey, big guy. Twice while i had someone in my office the phone buzzed, and the screen did NOT come on. I had to press home, then slide my finger to unlock in order to see what had happened (10 new email messages - i have it set to poll every 15 minutes, and i guess there were new messages each time). So does this only work for sms and phone? Why the inconsistency?


    As long as I'm pining for new features, I would love a view like chatter's summary view where all messages from different accounts can appear, color coded, in one list. Adding to the chatter fun, in chatter I can set a separator to show up between mail from different days, making it a lot easier to see when mail arrived (that is, instead of:

    <summary> <time/date>
    <summary> <time/date>

    it shows up:

    #########Today#########
    <summary>
    ...
    #########<date>########
    <summary>
    <summary>
    #########<date>########
    <summary>
    <summary>


    And, of course, instead of having to go back and forth to go from account to account, the messages are all in one place (and responding to a message automatically uses the proper SMTP account).
    I used Chatter and you become VERY accustomed to having the list view of all emails from various accounts color-coded. It is something I, too, miss. However, I do believe Apple will have updates coming out for the iPhone and hopefully this is one that can be addressed. I have 4-7 email accounts, so I know where you're coming from with the 4 taps to go into and out of Inboxes. Still, this isn't a deal breaker for me. Just an inconvenience I'm willing to deal with for stability and style.
    07-12-2007 08:50 AM
  18. oalvarez's Avatar
    Hmm. I think lots of devices meet my needs, but not all meet my desires :-)

    I'm also a bit of a UI geek from my developer days, so I love to nitpick.

    I hate WM. I find it kludgey and unintuitive in lots of ways. I prefer palm, but palm froze several years ago and hasn't done anything new since, and hasn't kept up. I code for both WM and palm, and simulating multitasking on palm is a nightmare. So is multimedia.

    The palm form factor is also dated - for what it does, the treo should be half as thick.

    I'm enjoying my iphone quite a bit. I think with a few fixes it would be nearly perfect for me. So I nitpick :-)

    i think that's right. you nailed it on the palm form factor, and i think many consumers are starting to think the same.

    as for the iPhone, and having owned it for almost two weeks, i'm still amazed each time i power it up. the internet and media experience are really that great, phone, email, and calendar work just fine for me. given that it doesn't act as my work device, i don't require much out of it, so flashing LED lights and a multitude of alarms and reminders aren't a necessity for me. i think all of what is on the device will improve over time and whatever is obviously missing (like being able to delete more than one message at a time) will be added in soon time. :thumbsup:
    07-12-2007 10:28 AM
  19. cmaier's Avatar
    I've been using iphone as my only device now for two days (my treo is plugged in, in a drawer - will cancel sprint next month).

    My wife plays with her iphone when she gets home from work, but still hasn't switched over from her samsung sph-i500 palm phone.

    For me, I use the iphone for both home and work (I'm currently a lawyer after a lifetime as an engineer). The great thing is for viewing word docs and pdfs in emails it blows blackberries away. It is also snappier and easier to view those docs than on my treo (which required 3p software like chatter and documents-to-go to accomplish that). Exchange activesync support would round out this functionality - right now I have to forward mail to my personal server because IT only supports blackberry - exchange 2003 support is coming shortly. To get calendar stuff in sync I use plaxo. Over-the-air PIM sync would be extra-nice.

    From a useability standpoint, the only thing that does bug me about iphone is that I have to poll it. I have to turn it on and press buttons/the screen to figure out if I have received any emails. I'm getting used to that, but, as I've said, I hope they improve that.

    As for my wife, she's loves finally being able to sms; she had no idea how that worked, because on her phone she can receive, but not easily send, text message (it's really old, and sprint sucked extra hard back then). She loves finally being able to read and send email (gmail via pop for her). Her main hold-up is that the phone is too gaudy, and she doesn't want to appear too snooty when she's seen with it at work, so she's waiting until our anniversary (next week) so she can at least say it was a gift and she didn't buy it herself :-)
    07-12-2007 10:40 AM
  20. oalvarez's Avatar
    ^again, i agree with you 100%. the email functionality (or lack thereof) is what keeps me from using it full time. i must have real time information available to me, a few minutes is sometimes too long, hence the blackberry and BES at my place of work. not only that, many of use use a myriad of inbox subfolders and the like and right now that isn't available yet on the iPhone.

    funny about the anniversary gift idea. congrats in advance!
    07-12-2007 11:24 AM
  21. dstrauss#IM's Avatar
    I've been using iphone as my only device now for two days (my treo is plugged in, in a drawer - will cancel sprint next month).

    My wife plays with her iphone when she gets home from work, but still hasn't switched over from her samsung sph-i500 palm phone.

    For me, I use the iphone for both home and work (I'm currently a lawyer after a lifetime as an engineer). The great thing is for viewing word docs and pdfs in emails it blows blackberries away. It is also snappier and easier to view those docs than on my treo (which required 3p software like chatter and documents-to-go to accomplish that). Exchange activesync support would round out this functionality - right now I have to forward mail to my personal server because IT only supports blackberry - exchange 2003 support is coming shortly. To get calendar stuff in sync I use plaxo. Over-the-air PIM sync would be extra-nice.

    From a useability standpoint, the only thing that does bug me about iphone is that I have to poll it. I have to turn it on and press buttons/the screen to figure out if I have received any emails. I'm getting used to that, but, as I've said, I hope they improve that.

    As for my wife, she's loves finally being able to sms; she had no idea how that worked, because on her phone she can receive, but not easily send, text message (it's really old, and sprint sucked extra hard back then). She loves finally being able to read and send email (gmail via pop for her). Her main hold-up is that the phone is too gaudy, and she doesn't want to appear too snooty when she's seen with it at work, so she's waiting until our anniversary (next week) so she can at least say it was a gift and she didn't buy it herself :-)
    Sweet - a techno geek spouse. As for that Samsung, that is still one of the best phone designs ever (small flip phone with graffiti or onscreen drawing) despite the 160x160. I was in an airport a few weeks ago, and a guy was playing with that relic, and the crowd around him was like an iPhone gallery "Where did you get that? What carrier? Where can I get one?" He was almost embarrassed to admit it was so old. I sure miss mine (but don't miss Sprint) but am happy with my Blackjack. Still, the iPhone has the look of a winner just like the Sammy 500 did in its day.
    07-12-2007 11:28 AM
  22. cmaier's Avatar
    Yeah, I used to have that samsung too. It really was pretty amazing given how small it is. If it had a 320x320 screen my wife probably still wouldn't give it up. Makes me wonder where samsung could have evolved palm phones had palm not scared all the third party hardware developers away with their general incompetence.
    07-12-2007 12:36 PM
  23. AnteL0pe's Avatar
    Sweet - a techno geek spouse.
    Haha, ya i had my iPhone for nearly an entire week before my wife decided she wasn't going to get the Perl she had been eying and was instead going for the iPhone.
    07-12-2007 01:24 PM
  24. SAKozicki's Avatar
    I've been using iphone as my only device now for two days (my treo is plugged in, in a drawer - will cancel sprint next month).

    My wife plays with her iphone when she gets home from work, but still hasn't switched over from her samsung sph-i500 palm phone.

    For me, I use the iphone for both home and work (I'm currently a lawyer after a lifetime as an engineer). The great thing is for viewing word docs and pdfs in emails it blows blackberries away. It is also snappier and easier to view those docs than on my treo (which required 3p software like chatter and documents-to-go to accomplish that). Exchange activesync support would round out this functionality - right now I have to forward mail to my personal server because IT only supports blackberry - exchange 2003 support is coming shortly. To get calendar stuff in sync I use plaxo. Over-the-air PIM sync would be extra-nice.

    From a useability standpoint, the only thing that does bug me about iphone is that I have to poll it. I have to turn it on and press buttons/the screen to figure out if I have received any emails. I'm getting used to that, but, as I've said, I hope they improve that.

    As for my wife, she's loves finally being able to sms; she had no idea how that worked, because on her phone she can receive, but not easily send, text message (it's really old, and sprint sucked extra hard back then). She loves finally being able to read and send email (gmail via pop for her). Her main hold-up is that the phone is too gaudy, and she doesn't want to appear too snooty when she's seen with it at work, so she's waiting until our anniversary (next week) so she can at least say it was a gift and she didn't buy it herself :-)
    I, too, am a lawyer who uses Amicus Attorney practice software, which syncs to Outlook. I currently use a Treo 680 and the Palm calendar program. How does the IPhone calendar work for your business needs and could you compare it to anything else, like the Palm calendar? Thanks
    07-12-2007 06:51 PM
  25. cmaier's Avatar
    I had been using keysuite on palm since it did a much better job of mirroring outlook's capabilities (in terms of features, views, fields, etc.)

    The iphone is a fine basic calendar. Whether it works for you will depend on your work-flow. If, for example, you categorize your appointments by matter or client, I don't see a way to do that with the iphone (you could add it as notes, i suppose, but that's not the same thing).

    Another caveat is that while you can set two alert times, the alerts do not repeat. I actually prefer this to being constantly reminded, but whether it works for you will depend on your own preference.

    The views are fine. There is a list view which shows upcoming appointments (however many, over the course of however many days, that it can fit on the screen - and, of course, you can scroll to see more).

    The day view is a standard day view (again, no color-coded categories, etc.)

    The month view shows a dot if you have an appointment, and if you click that day, the list of matching appointments show up down below.

    For me this works fine, since I don't keep track of billable hours on my calendar, etc. If you rely on that sort of thing, it won't work for you.
    07-12-2007 07:44 PM
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