1. CountBuggula's Avatar
    Can I get an "Amen!"? That sums it up exactly.



    This is a very smart man...or woman. I started out on PC's with DOS and I've seen the light. Once you go Mac, you never go back.
    Good for you. Please, stop with the blanket statements that are:
    1) impossible to prove

    and

    2) completely false

    I also started out on PCs with DOS. I've been through every version of Windows since 3.1. I've used several flavors of Linux and have 2 Linux machines at home now. I've tried Macs throughout that whole time. Back in the black and white days, through the PowerPC days, and now in the OSX days. I gave it an honest shot (over and over, as several of my friends are Mac users), and decided it wasn't for me. I'm not the only one, either. I know plenty of others in the same boat. I even have some friends who were Mac users before they knew how easy and inexpensive it is to build your own PC, and they made the switch. So quit spouting the Mac propaganda that Apple spreads in its marketing campaigns, because it just makes you sound like a parrot.
    07-03-2007 11:51 PM
  2. CountBuggula's Avatar
    Do you have an iPod? A media player? I'm curious what you would pay for each of them.
    I used to use a 40GB MP3 player that I purchased for less than $200 a few years ago when iPods of that size were selling for $400. It has an integrated Compact Flash and SD card reader, and worked wonderfully for transferring and backing up pictures from my digital camera, or songs to and from my Treo. I don't use it anymore as a music player much because it's been replaced by my Treo (I just stream my entire music library from home over the internet when I want to hear a tune) but still keep it as a handy portable external hard drive.

    I payed a fraction of the price of an iPod for it and got a device that had twice the capability. A bunch of my coworkers have iPods and when they saw it they all said "woah! I had no idea something like that existed! I wish my iPod could do that..."
    07-03-2007 11:57 PM
  3. oalvarez's Avatar
    But I would never buy a premium luxury car. That doesn't make them horrible cars, and that doesn't mean other people won't buy them and enjoy them. But if I can get a much less expensive car that's still dependable, has built-in GPS, bluetooth, and MP3 player, I will. Especially when that luxury car omits those extra features, yet the people who buy it rave about how nice it is to have air conditioning.
    great, then don't buy the premium luxury car....how many times are we going to do this? if you want to buy the less expensive car that comes with the same feature set then do so. but wouldn't you think it would be silly for others to poke fun at your less expensive car even if it did much of the same as its counterpart?

    no one is forcing you to buy an iPhone. so what is the point you're trying to convey? if you don't like one or want one in its current state, great, but i don't think many care.
    07-04-2007 12:48 AM
  4. braj's Avatar
    I'm personally not here to poke fun at anyone and would rather not argue. I just want an intelligent conversation about what the iPhone *could* be. Just because you like it as-is currently doesn't mean you have to defend it's faults, and just because you won't buy it because of the faults doesn't mean you can't admire what works and look forward to it's evolution (or how it may force others to evolve).
    07-04-2007 12:59 AM
  5. braj's Avatar
    Unrelated to premium luxury phones , I think the type of people who buy Gucci crap for $1000 when you can get the same damn functional thing for $5 are vain MORONS. Plain and simple. They may have enough intelligence to earn their money but none to spend it wisely.

    I don't think the iPhone is as drastic of a value mis-judgment as that by a long shot. And hopefully Apple rectifies many of the shortcoming in software updates (as opposed to Palm's 'just buy a 'new' device' way of doing business).
    07-04-2007 01:05 AM
  6. CountBuggula's Avatar
    great, then don't buy the premium luxury car....how many times are we going to do this? if you want to buy the less expensive car that comes with the same feature set then do so. but wouldn't you think it would be silly for others to poke fun at your less expensive car even if it did much of the same as its counterpart?

    no one is forcing you to buy an iPhone. so what is the point you're trying to convey? if you don't like one or want one in its current state, great, but i don't think many care.
    It would certainly be silly for them to poke fun of that car. Yet that's exactly what was going on here. Some iPhone users making fun of those of us who would rather use another phone. I was merely defending my position and relating reasons why I wouldn't get an iPhone. And like Braj stated, the idea is to discuss which of those reasons could be changed or implemented to make a better phone, whether it's a new version of the iPhone, a new Treo, or something completely different.
    07-04-2007 01:28 AM
  7. AnteL0pe's Avatar
    Well, that really isn't true...Jobs compared it to the smartphones/corporate phones in use today (Treo, BB, Nokia).
    Ummmmmm so? It still isnt a smartphone...

    Yeah, we get it. The iphone isn't as great as its strongest promoters claim, nor is it as bad as its strongest critics suggest. It is not every phone to every person. It does some things well and other things poorly. Other phones are undoubtedly better for some people, whereas the iphone is best for other people. It has the potential to be much better through firmware updates, which may or may not arrive, but other improvements will require new hardware spins. It either is or is not a smartphone depending on how you decide to define that term. It was almost certainly overhyped, although in some aspects it was worthy of the hype. In 3 years every other phone company will be out of business, or everyone will have become fed up with their iphones and returned them in disgust.

    Can we move on now?
    Bingo!

    So what do you consider marketing? Is it a poster saying "the iPhone is a smartphone"
    No.

    Can you tell from teh Apple marketing ads with PC and Mac guy that Apple is saying t ppl Windows sucks and they should buy macs instead? Or are you denying it all simply because you like Apple?
    Of course their ads say that.... they're ads.....

    The marketing of the iPhone has nothing to do with what it actually IS, but it ahs everything to do with what Steve Jobs % co want it to be to their target audience. Jobs compared the iPhone to phones with QWERTY keyboards, had his company do a spec sheet comparing it to N95 and others in the smartphone category (no Razrs or SE walkmans) and they went out of their way to advertise business-friendly features like PUSH IMAP, and that it did support Exchange with a server setting (check your info).
    So you're saying that Jobs has succeeded at being a salesman? Ummm... Yup, he can sell stuff... The thing is, this device was never sold as something it wasnt, it does what it does and it does it very well. It is not a device that does everything and it was never intended to be.
    07-04-2007 02:03 AM
  8. silverado's Avatar
    Why no option for unlimited messaging?
    There is an option for unlimited messaging for $20 (not cheap). I'd love to have IM though and I hope it's coming.
    07-04-2007 02:09 AM
  9. braj's Avatar
    There is an option for unlimited messaging for $20 (not cheap). I'd love to have IM though and I hope it's coming.
    Ah, I missed that, thanks for clarifying.

    How much do you guys use your SMS? I don't use mine much because I may be causing the person I'm sending to to spend $0.15 without wanting my message. You never know what plan people have. I remember before Cingular realized the value of SMS, they used to give it away for free and my wife and I used it extensively. It really sucks that they charge per message. The phone companies really suck donkey balls. Bastards.
    07-04-2007 02:17 AM
  10. AnteL0pe's Avatar
    It really sucks that they charge per message. The phone companies really suck donkey balls. Bastards.
    All of the US carriers suck balls. i wish just one of them would start thinkin of growing their base rather than "not sucking too much worse than the other guy."
    07-04-2007 02:26 AM
  11. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    Unrelated to premium luxury phones , I think the type of people who buy Gucci crap for $1000 when you can get the same damn functional thing for $5 are vain MORONS. Plain and simple. They may have enough intelligence to earn their money but none to spend it wisely.

    I don't think the iPhone is as drastic of a value mis-judgment as that by a long shot. And hopefully Apple rectifies many of the shortcoming in software updates (as opposed to Palm's 'just buy a 'new' device' way of doing business).
    Um, nothing Gucci sells for $1000 will be $5 in non-designer brands. Try at least $20. And the longevity will be in question. However, some Gucci products don't last long either. Louis Vuitton is even more expensive, but their stuff LASTS and so yes I do buy their products when I feel like splurging!

    Just needed to clear that up.
    07-04-2007 04:52 AM
  12. llarson's Avatar
    It would certainly be silly for them to poke fun of that car. Yet that's exactly what was going on here. Some iPhone users making fun of those of us who would rather use another phone. I was merely defending my position and relating reasons why I wouldn't get an iPhone. And like Braj stated, the idea is to discuss which of those reasons could be changed or implemented to make a better phone, whether it's a new version of the iPhone, a new Treo, or something completely different.
    Your phone choice. But it might have been that many people posting here having made a choice not to buy an iPHONE have said things and insinuated that those who buy an iPHONE are iMORONS, TECH-iDIOTS or just sheep driven to by the latest hyped product.

    I have stated many times the iPHONE has several faults and short comings. Most phones do. Palm users have many complaints as do WM users but I have yet to see the venom and mockery aimed at people in those forums for their choice of phone use.

    Many people here have a lot of constructive things to add to a discussion on what Apple should do to make the iPHONE more useful for their needs. Many people still are pushing the iMORON argument I guess in hope of shaming people to return the phone or somehow convince themselves and others that they have a superior phone, Why that is important I couldn't tell you.

    Many iPHONE users are what people call FanBoys/FanGirls.I myself like the term Mac-Evangelist! I bought it because it was an Apple product and because I feel it is a step in the direction I would like my cell phone to go. Easy to use and beautiful GUI with email, calendar and web browsing. All of which need tweaking to be better.

    Luxury item-maybe...

    Do other less expensive phones have some of the same features email, calendar, web browser-yes...

    Do they do them in the same simple revolutionary manner iPHONE does-no...

    I look forward to useful critiques on the iPHONE and less in your face you iMORON postings.

    Mac-Evangelist for life and proud of it!!
    07-04-2007 08:35 AM
  13. MacUser's Avatar
    Good for you. Please, stop with the blanket statements that are:
    1) impossible to prove

    and

    2) completely false

    I also started out on PCs with DOS. I've been through every version of Windows since 3.1. I've used several flavors of Linux and have 2 Linux machines at home now. I've tried Macs throughout that whole time. Back in the black and white days, through the PowerPC days, and now in the OSX days. I gave it an honest shot (over and over, as several of my friends are Mac users), and decided it wasn't for me. I'm not the only one, either. I know plenty of others in the same boat. I even have some friends who were Mac users before they knew how easy and inexpensive it is to build your own PC, and they made the switch. So quit spouting the Mac propaganda that Apple spreads in its marketing campaigns, because it just makes you sound like a parrot.
    Okay, let me qualify that no one I know has gone from a Mac back to a PC. I guess we have different friends.

    Sure, I have a custom built PC also. Sure, it was cheaper. Sure, I've had to have 3 techs look at it when there were various system errors. I don't have the leisure time to get an A+ certificate to keep a PC running dependably. Thus, I pay more and get a computer that works and works well.

    I'll be sure to qualify my statements with my personal experience from now on. Thanks for the insight.
    07-04-2007 08:54 AM
  14. MacUser's Avatar
    I used to use a 40GB MP3 player that I purchased for less than $200 a few years ago when iPods of that size were selling for $400. It has an integrated Compact Flash and SD card reader, and worked wonderfully for transferring and backing up pictures from my digital camera, or songs to and from my Treo. I don't use it anymore as a music player much because it's been replaced by my Treo (I just stream my entire music library from home over the internet when I want to hear a tune) but still keep it as a handy portable external hard drive.

    I payed a fraction of the price of an iPod for it and got a device that had twice the capability. A bunch of my coworkers have iPods and when they saw it they all said "woah! I had no idea something like that existed! I wish my iPod could do that..."
    It's great that you can stream your music to your Treo. I, personally, am sick of having to treat a phone as if I were a beta-tester. I WASTED so much time and money on third party apps trying to get my Treo 650 working properly. I guess I am willing to pay more for a phone to do a few things very well as opposed to a cheaper phone that has issues. Sure, the iPhone has things it can improve on and most likely will. As a consumer, that is my choice and I've made it. So, let's just drop the "iMoron" crap and converse like civilized adults.
    07-04-2007 09:00 AM
  15. llarson's Avatar
    So what do you consider marketing? Is it a poster saying "the iPhone is a smartphone" or otoh "the iPhone is not a smartphone"? Can you tell from teh Apple marketing ads with PC and Mac guy that Apple is saying t ppl Windows sucks and they should buy macs instead? Or are you denying it all simply because you like Apple? The marketing of the iPhone has nothing to do with what it actually IS, but it ahs everything to do with what Steve Jobs % co want it to be to their target audience. Jobs compared the iPhone to phones with QWERTY keyboards, had his company do a spec sheet comparing it to N95 and others in the smartphone category (no Razrs or SE walkmans) and they went out of their way to advertise business-friendly features like PUSH IMAP, and that it did support Exchange with a server setting (check your info).
    Micro$oft does very little marketing because the have a 80%+ of the market and use strong arm tactics to control it. Why advertise your product when you can slam it down peoples and manufactures throats!

    The last statement is a little slanted but we have all heard of th law suites and I wonder what would happen if Dell wanted to start selling Linux boxes on par with Windows? My guess is Mr. gates and a few friends would pay a visit to their stores and apply a little pressure <sound effect of a knee cap being smashed>.

    I love the Mac/PC guy commercials step into the light Bruckwine and come to love Apple. Or Mr. Jobs and Al Gore will come to your house and PAY YOU a little visit!
    07-04-2007 09:29 AM
  16. AnteL0pe's Avatar
    .......and they went out of their way to advertise business-friendly features like PUSH IMAP, and that it did support Exchange with a server setting (check your info).
    Still never seen this either...
    07-04-2007 09:34 AM
  17. CountBuggula's Avatar
    Your phone choice. But it might have been that many people posting here having made a choice not to buy an iPHONE have said things and insinuated that those who buy an iPHONE are iMORONS, TECH-iDIOTS or just sheep driven to by the latest hyped product.

    I have stated many times the iPHONE has several faults and short comings. Most phones do. Palm users have many complaints as do WM users but I have yet to see the venom and mockery aimed at people in those forums for their choice of phone use.

    Many people here have a lot of constructive things to add to a discussion on what Apple should do to make the iPHONE more useful for their needs. Many people still are pushing the iMORON argument I guess in hope of shaming people to return the phone or somehow convince themselves and others that they have a superior phone, Why that is important I couldn't tell you.

    Many iPHONE users are what people call FanBoys/FanGirls.I myself like the term Mac-Evangelist! I bought it because it was an Apple product and because I feel it is a step in the direction I would like my cell phone to go. Easy to use and beautiful GUI with email, calendar and web browsing. All of which need tweaking to be better.

    Luxury item-maybe...

    Do other less expensive phones have some of the same features email, calendar, web browser-yes...

    Do they do them in the same simple revolutionary manner iPHONE does-no...

    I look forward to useful critiques on the iPHONE and less in your face you iMORON postings.
    The iMoron term is yours not mine. The only thing I ever said against the iPhone is that it can't run 3rd party programs, making it not a smartphone, and that the only real "revolutionary" new features are the admittedly very well done User Interface. We've already stated that for some people, that UI is enough to justify a $500 premium over other phones with the same capabilities. For many of us, however, the lack of being able to install additional programs is a deal-killer.
    Mac-Evangelist for life and proud of it!!
    Recognizing the problem is the first step
    Okay, let me qualify that no one I know has gone from a Mac back to a PC. I guess we have different friends...I'll be sure to qualify my statements with my personal experience from now on. Thanks for the insight.
    Thanks. I have no problem with you saying that after you switched you never looked back. There's a world of difference in those two statements and what they imply.

    It's great that you can stream your music to your Treo. I, personally, am sick of having to treat a phone as if I were a beta-tester. I WASTED so much time and money on third party apps trying to get my Treo 650 working properly. I guess I am willing to pay more for a phone to do a few things very well as opposed to a cheaper phone that has issues. Sure, the iPhone has things it can improve on and most likely will. As a consumer, that is my choice and I've made it. So, let's just drop the "iMoron" crap and converse like civilized adults.
    Again, I thought the conversation had been plenty civilized since a certain someone left and stopped comparing using anything besides an iPhone to having sex with goats. And yes, I'm just as upset as many of you about the shortcomings in Treos lately. I never said my Treo was a perfect device, but it does so much more than an iPhone that I'll keep using it in spite of its shortcomings because otherwise I'd need to carry around 2, 3, or 4 seperate devices to replace it. I couldn't say the same thing about the iPhone.
    07-04-2007 11:19 AM
  18. Hargoth's Avatar
    The iPhone fails its primary objective right out of the box.
    No A2DP bluetooth profile.

    Total red flag, stop the presses, get that junk outa here.

    It doesn't mean a thing if the primary usage of the device is not even available.

    All of the other shortcomings are just more nails in an already sealed cement coffin.
    07-04-2007 12:02 PM
  19. cmaier's Avatar
    The iPhone fails its primary objective right out of the box.
    No A2DP bluetooth profile.

    Total red flag, stop the presses, get that junk outa here.

    It doesn't mean a thing if the primary usage of the device is not even available.

    All of the other shortcomings are just more nails in an already sealed cement coffin.

    Huh? How is that related to its "primary objective?" Ipods have no bluetooth at all and they are pretty darned good at what they do.
    07-04-2007 12:15 PM
  20. CountBuggula's Avatar
    Huh? How is that related to its "primary objective?" Ipods have no bluetooth at all and they are pretty darned good at what they do.
    Uh...double huh? They don't have bluetooth? Did I miss something?

    His point was that it's an iPod-phone combo and the music playing part doesn't support playing stereo music to a stereo bluetooth headset.
    07-04-2007 12:24 PM
  21. cmaier's Avatar
    I understand his point. It's an ipod-phone combo. And ipods are great at what they do and they don't support bluetooth (and hence no a2dp). And no one says "gee, ipods suck - they fail their primary objective because they don't support a2dp."

    The primary objective of the iphone is to be a media-centric communicator, not to stream music via blue tooth to a car. That would be a fine feature, but to say it's the "primary objective" is disingenuous.
    07-04-2007 12:31 PM
  22. braj's Avatar
    This is a feature that does speak to the primary uses of the iPhone. A dual use BT headset is a 'killer app' kind of device for a music player and phone. I have to believe the hardware is capable and maybe they will release an update for this. People who defend the lack will miss it when everyone else has it, I'm sure. (Why would you defend it not having this feature? Just because last generation's iPods didn't have it? WTF kind of reasoning is that?)

    It's just the future and should be on the first iPhone, which is supposed to be 5 years ahead, right?
    07-04-2007 01:51 PM
  23. cmaier's Avatar
    Man, you guys really just want to hate on this phone.

    1) yeah, i'm sure it will be a software update in the future
    2) the number of existing (as opposed to newly-on-sale) cars that support this feature is comparatively small. Heck, it's only been the last few years when cars have started to be sold with aux jacks as a regular feature.
    3) many millions of people are perfectly happy with their ipods and other mp3 players which do not support this feature
    4) i wasn't defending the lack of the feature - i was only saying that anyone who says the phone "fails at its primary objective" because of lack of this feature is full of it. The iphone is a perfectly fine audio player, and "audio player" is not even the "primary objective" of this phone.
    07-04-2007 01:58 PM
  24. braj's Avatar
    Man, you guys really just want to hate on this phone.

    1) yeah, i'm sure it will be a software update in the future
    2) the number of existing (as opposed to newly-on-sale) cars that support this feature is comparatively small. Heck, it's only been the last few years when cars have started to be sold with aux jacks as a regular feature.
    3) many millions of people are perfectly happy with their ipods and other mp3 players which do not support this feature
    4) i wasn't defending the lack of the feature - i was only saying that anyone who says the phone "fails at its primary objective" because of lack of this feature is full of it. The iphone is a perfectly fine audio player, and "audio player" is not even the "primary objective" of this phone.
    What 'hate'? All I'm saying is this is a feature it should have. That some people have an inability to both love the iPhones and be critical of the iPhone's shortcomings seems really strange to me. It almost seems like you are trying to be chaste to a cel phone. That's just weird.
    07-04-2007 02:19 PM
  25. cmaier's Avatar
    Read my postings. I've criticized it plenty. No 3G sucks. No third party applications suck. Many useful features are missing. Many other things don't quite work as one would hope. I just am sick of rhetorical nonsense like "it doesn't have feature X therefore anyone who buys one is an uneducated person who only cares about fashion" or "it doesn't have feature X (which 1% of the population gives a heck about) therefore it sucks."

    Also, this is an iphone website (phonedifferent), but at least half the people commenting have no iphone, have no interest in buying an iphone, never will buy an iphone, and have nothing better to do than post negatively about iphones.
    07-04-2007 02:23 PM
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