1. nyc_rock's Avatar
    1) No removable battery-I dont care about this in terms of swapping batteries on a daily basis. What bothers me is that within two years, your Iphone will need to be shipped back to apple for a new battery? does apple not realize that people cant just lose thier cell phones for a week? This point alone will prevent me from getting the iphone.

    2) No A2DP-This apple is supposed to be the most advanced music device on the planet. Well, ok, then how can it leave off this feature? Especially with 2.0 on board? I am sure you guys agree that once you use wireless stereo its tough to go back.

    3) No 3G-Steve Jobs totally ran from this questions when asked by Walt Mossberg. To me, this is just horrific. A device as advanced as the Iphone and it doesnt have 3G? this may very well be the most perplexing decision of all.

    I guess this is what version 1. I just think this device could have taken over the world had it addressed these three points. I might have even considered getting one.
    06-30-2007 08:28 AM
  2. newtonjack's Avatar
    1) No removable battery-I dont care about this in terms of swapping batteries on a daily basis. What bothers me is that within two years, your Iphone will need to be shipped back to apple for a new battery? does apple not realize that people cant just lose thier cell phones for a week? This point alone will prevent me from getting the iphone.

    2) No A2DP-This apple is supposed to be the most advanced music device on the planet. Well, ok, then how can it leave off this feature? Especially with 2.0 on board? I am sure you guys agree that once you use wireless stereo its tough to go back.

    3) No 3G-Steve Jobs totally ran from this questions when asked by Walt Mossberg. To me, this is just horrific. A device as advanced as the Iphone and it doesnt have 3G? this may very well be the most perplexing decision of all.

    I guess this is what version 1. I just think this device could have taken over the world had it addressed these three points. I might have even considered getting one.


    Don't forget no removable SIM card.

    Oh yea, and no SD card slot either.
    06-30-2007 09:15 AM
  3. Kupe#WP's Avatar
    SIM card is removable - not that it does you much good with a locked phone.
    06-30-2007 09:26 AM
  4. dstrauss#IM's Avatar
    Don't forget no removable SIM card.

    Oh yea, and no SD card slot either.
    Removabe, yes - unlocked, NO.

    It appears there are a lot of short-comings, just as there are incredible advances, but the SD card complaint really baffles me. Name another handheld device, phone or PDA, that comes with 8gb built in...then name me the number of devices that can accept SD cards greater than 8gb. This one is a straw man argument.
    06-30-2007 10:03 AM
  5. cmaier's Avatar
    Only reason i'd like SD is to be able to unload photos from my digital camera onto the phone. which is not enough of a reason to put the slot there.

    I agree on the battery and 3G.
    06-30-2007 10:35 AM
  6. danktuft#IM's Avatar
    For me 3G isn't all that important but that is down to personal preference, a lot of the sites I visit are heavy on text not pictures. Personally, having been subject to the utter hell that is Windows Mobile 5 I would put a lot more faith in Apples ability to get this phone right after a couple of revisions than I ever would Microsoft getting a useful OS together - ever.
    06-30-2007 10:52 AM
  7. rcgabriel's Avatar
    Don't forget non-standards-compliant, semi-working push email. This was so easy to get right, and they failed it.

    The A2DP thing I don't really miss, but maybe that's because I've never had it.

    The lack of 3G doesn't really bother me because it does have wi-fi, which makes it pull ahead of the Treos, which Palm absolutely idiotically has refused to put wifi in (I don't include WM devices, since I unequivocally loathe Windows Mobile and would never disgrace my pocket with such a piece of turd).

    The battery that can't be replaced is truly baffling. It was a major issue for the iPod, and cell phones tend to get much heavier, more frequent use than the iPod and are far more likely to wear out a battery. Instead, they made it *even harder* to replace.
    06-30-2007 11:03 AM
  8. cmaier's Avatar
    p-imap is supported by some wm phones, i think, but there are very few servers that support it since the spec is not yet part of lemonade. probably a fine thing to support, but apple should have fully supported idle, as well.

    i'm guessing they may update this in the rumored "corporate email support" announcement, but who knows.

    i ordered two iphones and bluetooth earpieces last night on the apple website; i'll have 2-4 weeks to figure out how to get push email going. (i'm willing to copy incoming mails to yahoo email addresses temporarily)

    how does the yahoo thing work? is it an ordinary yahoo mail account, or some special iphone-related account?
    06-30-2007 11:15 AM
  9. newtonjack's Avatar
    Removabe, yes - unlocked, NO.

    It appears there are a lot of short-comings, just as there are incredible advances, but the SD card complaint really baffles me. Name another handheld device, phone or PDA, that comes with 8gb built in...then name me the number of devices that can accept SD cards greater than 8gb. This one is a straw man argument.
    Did you see the video on this site that showed taking apart the iPhone? I guess I should have said easily removable. They practically needed a jackhammer to open it.
    06-30-2007 11:17 AM
  10. danktuft#IM's Avatar
    Don't forget non-standards-compliant, semi-working push email. This was so easy to get right, and they failed it.

    The A2DP thing I don't really miss, but maybe that's because I've never had it.

    The lack of 3G doesn't really bother me because it does have wi-fi, which makes it pull ahead of the Treos, which Palm absolutely idiotically has refused to put wifi in (I don't include WM devices, since I unequivocally loathe Windows Mobile and would never disgrace my pocket with such a piece of turd).

    The battery that can't be replaced is truly baffling. It was a major issue for the iPod, and cell phones tend to get much heavier, more frequent use than the iPod and are far more likely to wear out a battery. Instead, they made it *even harder* to replace.
    The battery thing is baffling and something they'll have to change IMO. Your points about a phone getting heavier usage than an iPod are correct, given that the iPod is in the unit as well the battery is going to be caned on a daily basis.

    Windows Mobile 5. I cannot believe the amount of people considering using this buggy, half-finished rubbish over on the TC forums. Had a TyTyn for a year after using a Treo 600 and it was awful, still have a year of my contract to go but was so pssed off with the phone and OS that I dropped 280 quid on an unlocked 680. Bliss compared to WM5, not perfect but so, so, so much better.
    06-30-2007 11:18 AM
  11. cmaier's Avatar
    the sim card is easily removable - just stick a paperclip in a hole and it ejects
    06-30-2007 11:18 AM
  12. danktuft#IM's Avatar
    Did you see the video on this site that showed taking apart the iPhone? I guess I should have said easily removable. They practically needed a jackhammer to open it.
    Bad Apple for making a quality built device.
    06-30-2007 11:19 AM
  13. newtonjack's Avatar
    Bad Apple for making a quality built device.
    Perhaps we should let this device work in the real world for a few months before making that statement, hey?
    06-30-2007 11:22 AM
  14. danktuft#IM's Avatar
    Perhaps we should let this device work in the real world for a few months before making that statement, hey?
    You appear to be wanting it both ways.
    06-30-2007 11:25 AM
  15. newtonjack's Avatar
    I am just going by the video posted on this site, but I will give you that the SIM card is easily replacable. Doesnt make up for the other shortcomings such as non replacable battery.


    PS as of now there are 9000 iPhones for sale on Ebay. And I suspect that number will swell to 25000 by tomorrow. Many people want it but it wont sell nearly as T and Jobs expect it to.
    06-30-2007 11:30 AM
  16. cmaier's Avatar
    i figure that by the time i have problems with my battery, the 3-g version of the phone with 20GB of ram will be out, and i'll just swap for that :-)

    i'm no apple fanboy nor am i a hater. i designed microprocessors for AMD for a decade until i switched careers a couple of months ago. So purely from an engineering perspective, I see where apple is coming from on the battery decision, but i think it was the wrong decision. People may be willing to put up with inconveniences with their ipods, but when, 12-18 months from now, the batteries all start dying, they better have a plan in place for how they'll get them swapped without people having to put up with no phone for a week.
    06-30-2007 11:36 AM
  17. techiegirl's Avatar
    Would we be able to remove the sim card and put it in another phone?

    the sim card is easily removable - just stick a paperclip in a hole and it ejects
    06-30-2007 11:52 AM
  18. cmaier's Avatar
    should be able to, yes.
    06-30-2007 11:58 AM
  19. nyc_rock's Avatar
    i figure that by the time i have problems with my battery, the 3-g version of the phone with 20GB of ram will be out, and i'll just swap for that :-)

    i'm no apple fanboy nor am i a hater. i designed microprocessors for AMD for a decade until i switched careers a couple of months ago. So purely from an engineering perspective, I see where apple is coming from on the battery decision, but i think it was the wrong decision. People may be willing to put up with inconveniences with their ipods, but when, 12-18 months from now, the batteries all start dying, they better have a plan in place for how they'll get them swapped without people having to put up with no phone for a week.

    I can tell you this is wishfull thinking. the battery, according to apple, is good for 300-400 discharge recharge cycles. I can tell you for me, thats a year.
    06-30-2007 12:00 PM
  20. nyc_rock's Avatar
    those who feel that wi fi is a substitute for 3G really baffle me. If you have 3G, like the treo's have, why would you need wi fi? What point would it serve?
    06-30-2007 12:01 PM
  21. cmaier's Avatar
    battery: yeah, a year for me too, i'm thinking, since i'll charge every night probably (unless battery life is significantly better than i'm guessing).

    wi-fi: for me, i'm still on a 2G network (treo 650 - cdma). So i won't experience much pain on edge since i'm not used to 3G. And, frankly, MOST of the time I am either at work or at home, and in both cases I have wi-fi. Though, frankly, wherever I have wi-fi I usually have a laptop or a pc, so i wouldn't be using my phone to browse.

    remember, though, that 3G coverage (even on the EVDO networks) is not universal, and where it does exist it often won't work in interior offices, etc. So if you can't get 3G service, wi-fi is great to have. And the at&t hsdpa network is not in nearly as many places as sprint, so wi-fi is even more important.

    I think the main reason they left out 3G is that the chips just aren't there (even ignoring the broadcom/qualcomm ITC ban on imports). HSDPA chips are not nearly as mature as EDGE chips at this point. The coverage thing cited by Jobs is probably a red herring; a 3G phone can drop down to 2G when no 3G is available.
    06-30-2007 12:10 PM
  22. nyc_rock's Avatar
    battery: yeah, a year for me too, i'm thinking, since i'll charge every night probably (unless battery life is significantly better than i'm guessing).

    wi-fi: for me, i'm still on a 2G network (treo 650 - cdma). So i won't experience much pain on edge since i'm not used to 3G. And, frankly, MOST of the time I am either at work or at home, and in both cases I have wi-fi. Though, frankly, wherever I have wi-fi I usually have a laptop or a pc, so i wouldn't be using my phone to browse.

    remember, though, that 3G coverage (even on the EVDO networks) is not universal, and where it does exist it often won't work in interior offices, etc. So if you can't get 3G service, wi-fi is great to have. And the at&t hsdpa network is not in nearly as many places as sprint, so wi-fi is even more important.

    I think the main reason they left out 3G is that the chips just aren't there (even ignoring the broadcom/qualcomm ITC ban on imports). HSDPA chips are not nearly as mature as EDGE chips at this point. The coverage thing cited by Jobs is probably a red herring; a 3G phone can drop down to 2G when no 3G is available.
    3G coverage is not universal, correct, and especially on At&t its spotty at best. further making the carrier decision baffling. But I travel for a living and I can tell you that my Treo WX gets EVDO in every city I travel too. On verizon, its very well established.
    06-30-2007 12:25 PM
  23. nyc_rock's Avatar
    The battery thing is baffling and something they'll have to change IMO. Your points about a phone getting heavier usage than an iPod are correct, given that the iPod is in the unit as well the battery is going to be caned on a daily basis.

    Windows Mobile 5. I cannot believe the amount of people considering using this buggy, half-finished rubbish over on the TC forums. Had a TyTyn for a year after using a Treo 600 and it was awful, still have a year of my contract to go but was so pssed off with the phone and OS that I dropped 280 quid on an unlocked 680. Bliss compared to WM5, not perfect but so, so, so much better.
    Im on WM5 I can report its solid as a rock on my WX. Im actually amazed and just how well it perfoms.
    06-30-2007 12:27 PM
  24. Malatesta's Avatar
    battery: yeah, a year for me too, i'm thinking, since i'll charge every night probably (unless battery life is significantly better than i'm guessing).

    wi-fi: for me, i'm still on a 2G network (treo 650 - cdma). So i won't experience much pain on edge since i'm not used to 3G.
    .
    But you might, the browser on your Treo is optimized for mobile sites and uses less data to view a web site e.g. you are DL'ing the entire web page. On the iPhone you are.
    06-30-2007 01:59 PM
  25. cmaier's Avatar
    That argument makes no sense. You can still go to mobile websites on an iphone. I'm sure I'll be making lots of use of mobile.nytimes.com, mobile.fandango.com, etc.
    06-30-2007 02:01 PM
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