JackNaylorPE
Well-known member
"include, but not limited to..." does not mean what you think it means...
Surur
I write construction contracts and my "shall include, but not necessarily limited to's" have stood quite a few legal challenges.
"include, but not limited to..." does not mean what you think it means...
Surur
No device has everything, the question is "is what I get outweighed by what I don't ?"
I write construction contracts and my "shall include, but not necessarily limited to's" have stood quite a few legal challenges.
Compromise. Say it's a Feature Phone.I know it when I see it, and I say it is.
Where does that leave us?
Feature phones do not typically have access to more advanced applications written in native code, such as Symbian.
That's my point. You can do that with the term 'smartphone' because there's no generally agreed definition. You can't do that (at least not in the same way) with other terms, where the definition is agreed. If I say to you 'is this animal a chicken?' we'd probably agree on the answer because we have a very similar notion of what a chicken is. Ask people on this board if the iPhone is a smartphone and you'll get both yes and no answers. You say it is, MikeC says it isn't etc.Making our own choices of course. Where else?
Just expand on that. In some ways the iPhone is clearly more advanced than the Treo 650 (a device I used for 18 months and for which I have great affection). Is the 650 not a smartphone or is it only advancement in the areas you choose that count in your definition?
To honest, I think the term 'iPhone' is good enough for all practical purposes. As I think Jack said before 'it is what is'. This categorisation stuff really isn't very important.Compromise. Say it's a Feature Phone.
To honest, I think the term 'iPhone' is good enough for all practical purposes. As I think Jack said before 'it is what is'. This categorisation stuff really isn't very important.
Fair enough. Best bet might be if you and mikec step outside and the winner comes back and tells us who's rightMy definition include 3rd party apps with full access to the hardware, also called native apps.
Oh good I'm not the only one who noticed that. I wonder if he meant to say isn't?
edit: Mikec posted clarification while I wrote this. I still don't buy the Web2.0 apps argument. Fancy web sites do not an application make. Especially when on an airplane.
I just knew you'd say that! You're right of course. It's important to Canalys, NPD and the like. It's important to headline writers and thus probably important to manufacturers too. What I was trying to express was that however we categorise it doesn't actually affect the device in your hand, doesn't affect what it can do, doesn't affect your experience of your device. In the end, as a user first and foremost, I do think those things are the more important than any label you might apply.It is important if you want to start comparing things.
You excluded all devices without a QWERTY.
All N series devices lack a QWERTY keyboard.
Now you're just talking nonsense. There are no virtual keyboards, not least for the very good reason that the OS (S60) doesn't support touchscreens.
EDIT: I've taken about out the bit about Mike being drunk. A bit too pot, kettle, black
You're welcome to your personal definition but really you can't claim it's 'de facto' if it excludes the N series.
The bottom line is that saying just because they shelled out the bucks means it has what 99% of people need is bogus and not based on anything but Jack's imagination. Are most happy about the purchase? I'm sure they are. Do many want to see more and better features? Of course.
I know it when I see it, and I say it is.
Where does that leave us?
I just knew you'd say that! You're right of course. It's important to Canalys, NPD and the like. It's important to headline writers and thus probably important to manufacturers too. What I was trying to express was that however we categorise it doesn't actually affect the device in your hand, doesn't affect what it can do, doesn't affect your experience of your device. In the end, as a user first and foremost, I do think those things are the more important than any label you might apply.
Shall include and include are not the same thing.
Surur
Sales figures are not imagination. To determine what the market wants is simple....you look at what sells....and then you look at what's not out there that people might want. Out of 150 million phones sold in the US, only 6% of them bought smartphones. To say that more needed them but didn't buy them is ridiculous. If they are still alive and still employed then I guess they really didn't "need" them after all.
Fair enough. Best bet might be if you and mikec step outside and the winner comes back and tells us who's right