10 Things that "Absolutely suck" about the iPhone. (Yes I have one)

[zeze22]

Hamlet to Gertrude, "the Lady doth protest too much, methinks."

(Actually, it was Gertrude watching the quasi-Gertrude player planted by Hamlet, but the sentiment is the same.)

 

[tirk]

Hamlet to Gertrude, "the Lady doth protest too much, methinks."

You can be bard for comments like that.

 

[Denny Crane]

Now that's a rousing endorsement! If it worked better, it would be okay. Except for all the capabilities it lacks, of course, and the crashes.

Frankly, I had more crashes with my Treo 700p and 650 per day than I have had with my iPhone, which to date have been zero.

My Treo 750 is rock solid though.

 

[mikec#IM]

Frankly, I had more crashes with my Treo 700p and 650 per day than I have had with my iPhone, which to date have been zero.

My Treo 750 is rock solid though.

The Palm OS resets like crazy. It's 10 years old and not built for anything telecomm oriented.

I would sure hope the iPhone was more stable than that.

I find WM5 very stable compared to Palm.

 

[JackNaylorPE]

There's two types of buyers of these devcies:

A. Those who look at a spec list and make a decision based on.
B. Those who look at the experience and make a decision based on.

Many Treo owners fell into the A category but the heart of Treo's success over the years has always been B. Type A users will skip this phone; Type B consumers will flock to it. Most people are "look see" buyers....they walk in to a store, they look, they see and a decision is made in 5 minutes. No device on the market matches the 5 minute experience the iPhone provides. Some people will experience a tinge of buyer's remorse when they see other phones with GPS, other phones with 3G but they most won't be willing to give up that screen and the user experience to get it. And after 30 days, to Apple and AT&T buyer's remorse really don't matter much does it ?

In the rush to trash the phone, seen lots of "this thing can't do this" only to read another article where the user had done just that (i.e. sending a picture, setting rec'd picture as wallpaper. WM is at version 6 and is still not close to getting in right. Palm had it right but may have waffled to long before picking a Linux direction and by the time it's done may have lost too much mindshare. This is Apple Mobile 1.0 ... MS and Palm never came close with 1.0

I won't address messaging because frankly I don't understand the concept. E-mail and phone covers all my needs. The lack of 3rd party apps, no stereo BT, dongle req'ts etc. is something TC regulars all will hate but for many consumers, this simply isn't an issue ...they don't want to learn how or be bothered with programs ..... all they want is an iPod, a MM device and a phone. It's a teenager's dream....it's the lady jogger from next door's dream.....it's the "anybody who doesn't need to run programs on a 2" screen" 's dream.

Now ATT&T requires a 2 year contract on any phone in which we take a "discount" so don't really see that as an issue. And I bought my Cingular 650 with a 1 year contract when Sprint and Verizon users were being tied to 2 so I don't understand this complaint.

Saying that a phone doesn't do this or that only matters if ya are actually going to do this or that. For the great majority of cell phone users, their wish lists do not include those things. Yeah 3G is a great thing, but only if you happen to live AND work in the small geographical that currently has coverage.

Yes our Treos are wonderful devices.....but let's not forget that Apple sold almost as many iPhones in a weekend than Palm sells in a year. Arguing that a car doesn't do 230 mph, doesn't get 60 mpg, doesn't seat 8, doesn't have 4 wheel drive, doesn't have full laptop capability in the dash isn't a valid argument....no car can meet all those requirements. But what the iPhone does offer will satisfy most consumers and it will / has make a bigger splash than the Treo did at its introduction because it has done more than what Palm did with the Palm OS.....not only did they make it simple and intuitive like Palm did, but they made it gorgeous.

I won't get one for the same reason I don't have any Apple Products. I don't need / want a MM Device and the Apple product(s) can't do trade specific things that I need it to do. But if I didn't need to run AutoCAD, I'd certainly have an Apple PC. If I didn't need / want to run programs on a PDA, I could be very happy with an iPhone.

But going back to the "Top 6 Must Have" programs list thread, I remember the overwhelming most popular program was PocketTunes. For the peeps with this program at the top of their list, many of them don't need their device to do what I need it to do and will be well served with an iPhone....just as many Crackberry users were well served by their devices even before it was anything more than a phone and e-mail device....that was all they needed, so they were happy. Telling the VP of Dow Chemical that his Crackberry won't be able to download and play the latest Limp Bisquit album won't ruin his day.

Yes, Apple will sell millions and millions of these things....users will be more than happy with them.....get over it. Their success will not be based upon a "spec list" but by the user experience. As usual, Apple kicked butt in that department. And they did it better this time than they have in the past. The iPod was hardly the industry standard that it was a half week after it was intro'd. Apple matched the Treo's 2006 marketshare after just 2 days on the market.

And let's not forget that Apple needs to continue to make money...so there has to be something left for Version II.....I'm sure Apple has drooled over how peeps abandon their $600 6 month old Treos as soon as the latest version comes out. The board opinion seems consistent in that these Treo upgrades do not include an overwhelming list of new features. But peeps still drollling over release dates and just have to have one on the day they come out.

So what will Apple have left to put in to "sell" the upgrade ? How do they get the journalists to say "wow" again ? A product doesn't go from "splash" to industry standard with just one mega intro.....it's gotta repeat that splash 2 or 3 times to become an icon.....well BT Stereo, GPS, 3G, removable battery leave things to get excited about for version II.

What apple has recognized that the other major vendors apparently haven't is that the consumer market is far bigger than the business one. It seems that they didn't even think there was market share at the consumer level for a $100+ device. For every white collar business user, there's a spouse and 2.3 kids with cell phones. And white collar is by far outnumbered by blue collar and service industries....I don't see the waiters, construction workers, waiters, car mechanics, pool guy, landscaper, etc relying on features exclusive to the Treo and its ilk.

What it has also done is HUGE for AT&T. AT&T already has the largest US market share phone wise ..... I have no idea datawise but let's say it's comparable. If Palm had a 5% ,market share (Canalys report) with about 500,000 Treos sold in 2006 (OK I rounded down a bit to make math easy), that's 10,000,000 data devices bought in 2006......assuming peeps keep an average of 2 years, that 20 million in use in US at any one time. AT&T picked up 2.5% of that in a weekend and would have done more if many places didn't sell out! Argue what you will about the accuracy of the numbers in that assessment but it doesn't change the significance of the impact Apple having on those numbers nor the impact on ATT&T's coffers.

Around here, based upon my son's reports (he called every one within 60 miles) , the stores are saying at least 2-4 weeks before ya can get one w/o pre-ordering. AT&T has the exclusive on the iPhone, the exclusive on the BB Curve.....it basically excluded the competition from the most talked about and desired new devices in the consumer and business markets. Cingular could sweep all this year's hoopla by outbidding the others for first crack at the Linux Treo.

I was kinda put off at first by the advertised $60 minimum plan cost when my son said he wanted one. After a closer look, a 450 minute talk plan is $39.99 A data plan w/unlimited internet and 200 messages is $19.99 .... bingo $60. IOW, same as my Treo.....well not really. Since I have a family plan, I am currently paying $9.99 for my son's talk time and $5 for his 200 text messages. Adding the Treo's MediaMax equivalent for $19.99 gives him a total bill of $30 a month So assuming I wind up getting the Linux Treo when it comes out, I'll have:

Son No. 1 - iPhone with unlimited internet and 200 messages - $30/mo
Son No. 2 - My old 650 with unlimited internet and 200 messages - $30/mo

 

[cardfan]

Just remember those relatives that don't want DVR, high speed internet, etc when you suggest it to them. Why? Because they can't miss what they never had. But when they finally get it, they're like "damn, wish i'd done this long ago"

Most iphone users don't miss what current smartphones can do because they never had one or never used what it could do.

Apple was smart to recognize they needed something very slick & pretty (even if it lacked many standard features on other smartphones) to grab the nontechie masses.

 

[JohnH59]

The Palm OS resets like crazy. It's 10 years old and not built for anything telecomm oriented.

I would sure hope the iPhone was more stable than that.

I find WM5 very stable compared to Palm.

Don't agree. I've had my 755 for 5 weeks with only 3-5 resets. Each of these were after installing an app that I was fairly sure would not work anyway. I have around 50 3rd party apps intstalled all across the spectrum, watch videos, balance check, TomTom, Docs to Go 9, etc. I need to restart my computers, Windows and Mac more than that. My 650 had over 70 3rd party apps installed and I had maybe 2 resets a month. We have around 100 Treo's, ranging from the 600 to the 755, in our company. We have needed to exchange two of these due to hardware failure. No one has complained about constant resets. Of the 100, most don't use third party apps except NVBakup and Docs to Go. We use Versamail with EAS Sprint's Business Connect to get email.

 

[stadanko#WN]

Again! "I hopE.... therefore Apple IS"...
Strange



Palm doesn't force the use of 3rd party apps.

Exactly my point. I don't even need 3rd party apps on my old P.O.S. 700p. Completely stipped down without an extra app added it's a failure.

Palm just found it convenient to blame 3rd party apps as the cause of the problem.

 

[oalvarez]

The lack of 3rd party apps, no stereo BT, dongle req'ts etc. is something TC regulars all will hate but for many consumers, this simply isn't an issue ...they don't want to learn how or be bothered with programs ..... all they want is an iPod, a MM device and a phone. It's a teenager's dream....it's the lady jogger from next door's dream.....it's the "anybody who doesn't need to run programs on a 2" screen" 's dream.

Saying that a phone doesn't do this or that only matters if ya are actually going to do this or that. For the great majority of cell phone users, their wish lists do not include those things.

But what the iPhone does offer will satisfy most consumers .......not only did they make it simple and intuitive like Palm did, but they made it gorgeous.

Yes, Apple will sell millions and millions of these things....users will be more than happy with them.....get over it. Their success will not be based upon a "spec list" but by the user experience.

The board opinion seems consistent in that these Treo upgrades do not include an overwhelming list of new features. But peeps still drollling over release dates and just have to have one on the day they come out.

What apple has recognized that the other major vendors apparently haven't is that the consumer market is far bigger than the business one. It seems that they didn't even think there was market share at the consumer level for a $100+ device. For every white collar business user, there's a spouse and 2.3 kids with cell phones. And white collar is by far outnumbered by blue collar and service industries....I don't see the waiters, construction workers, waiters, car mechanics, pool guy, landscaper, etc relying on features exclusive to the Treo and its ilk.

and what i too have been saying all along......i'm not sure why some here at TreoCentral have such a hard time with this. fight the hype but you can't fight the fact. apple is selling tons of these and for good reason. many people want it simple, they like innovation, and they would prefer less thin/less heavy holding many other things constant. i'll stop here as i think i've said enough on this topic in the past.

palm, the iPhone is innovative, your antenna-less and curved-in sided T680 is not, and now you're paying for it.

 

[Malatesta]

and what i too have been saying all along......i'm not sure why some here at TreoCentral have such a hard time with this. fight the hype but you can't fight the fact. apple is selling tons of these and for good reason. many people want it simple, they like innovation, and they would prefer less thin/less heavy holding many other things constant. i'll stop here as i think i've said enough on this topic in the past.

palm, the iPhone is innovative, your antenna-less and curved-in sided T680 is not, and now you're paying for it.

Don't ride Jack's coattails...

That's not what you have been saying all along.

All the disagreements at TC on the iPhone come down to saying it is "better than..." in almost every which way. Archie was saying how it did email better, internet better, voice better, dialing better...everything was better and every smartphone out there was wrong, inefficient, years behind and no comparison. More specifically, from the claims by Jobs himself saying it's the "first to do this!', etc. That has been the source of all contention here. Throw in claims that "it will never crash" and other hyperbole ("it's the thinnest phone available") and you have a fight.

As a MM device, everyone here...all the detractors have said it will excel. All the detractors have also said it would sell big time and would help the overall industry due to new competition. That was never the issue.

The whole "its thinner and sleeker" argument is the same old one that is brought out each time a new device enters the market: RAZR, Moto Q, etc. It is more than obvious that is where the market is heading. Sure Palm is a bit slow to catch up, OTOH, a lot of people here also don't mind the Treo's form factor--it is extremely ergonomic to use.

The fact is, a lot of Treo/Smartphone/WM phone users buy the devices to do specific applications or functions--no one buys one b/c they want a thicker phone that does mysterious functions. Those people cannot use an iPhone and won't switch. All the people who use these devices as pro-sumer MM devices are highly likely to give it a shot. I'm not sure why that is not obvious...

 

[dstrauss#IM]

SURUR:

Good to see they ran yo back over here from phonedifferent. I was wondering where your withering cross-fire against all things iPhone had gone.

 

[oalvarez]

Don't ride Jack's coattails...

That's not what you have been saying all along.

All the disagreements at TC on the iPhone come down to saying it is "better than..." in almost every which way. Archie was saying how it did email better, internet better, voice better, dialing better...everything was better and every smartphone out there was wrong, inefficient, years behind and no comparison. More specifically, from the claims by Jobs himself saying it's the "first to do this!', etc. That has been the source of all contention here. Throw in claims that "it will never crash" and other hyperbole ("it's the thinnest phone available") and you have a fight.

As a MM device, everyone here...all the detractors have said it will excel. All the detractors have also said it would sell big time and would help the overall industry due to new competition. That was never the issue.

The whole "its thinner and sleeker" argument is the same old one that is brought out each time a new device enters the market: RAZR, Moto Q, etc. It is more than obvious that is where the market is heading. Sure Palm is a bit slow to catch up, OTOH, a lot of people here also don't mind the Treo's form factor--it is extremely ergonomic to use.

The fact is, a lot of Treo/Smartphone/WM phone users buy the devices to do specific applications or functions--no one buys one b/c they want a thicker phone that does mysterious functions. Those people cannot use an iPhone and won't switch. All the people who use these devices as pro-sumer MM devices are highly likely to give it a shot. I'm not sure why that is not obvious...

unfortunately it is what i have been saying....you are wrong. i understand if it's hard for you to admit such.

 

[oalvarez]

The whole "its thinner and sleeker" argument is the same old one that is brought out each time a new device enters the market: RAZR, Moto Q, etc. It is more than obvious that is where the market is heading. Sure Palm is a bit slow to catch up, OTOH, a lot of people here also don't mind the Treo's form factor--it is extremely ergonomic to use.

The fact is, a lot of Treo/Smartphone/WM phone users buy the devices to do specific applications or functions--no one buys one b/c they want a thicker phone that does mysterious functions. Those people cannot use an iPhone and won't switch. All the people who use these devices as pro-sumer MM devices are highly likely to give it a shot. I'm not sure why that is not obvious...

yes, as i said, "holding all things constant" (a person who just needs phone, internet and email) one would think that they'd choose the more slim and less heavy device.

my argument isn't that "those people" who can't use an iPhone should. my argument has been that for those people (again, the type of user i refer to above) who ONLY need phone, internet, email and music (NOT A TREOCENTRAL TYPE!!!!) do not need such an outdated form factor as a Treo in that there are many better alternatives out there (e.g., iPhones, Blackberry, etc). my premise of so many around here not needing a Treo has been validated by countless threads of users who have given up on there Treos for some other device. those probably aren't your typical power user although some are (those now migrating towards a Mogul and the like) but i've never said that the power user doesn't need a Palm or WM device. i have said that Palm has had a difficult time implementing true innovation in their devices (680) and for that i snicker at those who think Palm and the Treo are the only choice.

 

[surur]

SURUR:

Good to see they ran yo back over here from phonedifferent. I was wondering where your withering cross-fire against all things iPhone had gone.

Ive actually grown bored of this thread. All I can say (from reading many forum posts) is that there are many forum posters running into limitations of the device.

There is however no doubt that they are enjoying the device, and the percentage that decide to not fit themselves to the phone, and instead of find a device which suites their desires seem quite low.

Surur

 

[bruckwine]

MEh. I don't go for "user experience" like the 700,,00 ppl quoted as buying iphones - I go for Power..gimme more specs! more specs!

User experience is overrated in my experience - I get bored and it's why ppl who have money are never satisfied, they "love" something for a few months or a year then it's on to the next new thing. Gimme something I can freely tinker with so that I NEVER get bored...plus I'm poor so the more juice I get per purchase the better!

It's why I love windows, bugs and all. OS X is nice and all but heck it's jsut a shell - it's what you do inside it that matters and even now I can do more in XP than OS X..blame the developer community , blame Apple's high end prices, but the treo is a mini-Windows to me and I love it. LJP emulator, various games, multimedia with various codecs etc - i love it. I'm a junkie! Until Apple opens the iPhone up I doubt I'll go over...def. if they lower the price and put in some of the more key missing functionality (video, c&p etc)...but it'll still be very limited w/o 3rd parties...my 2 cents.


Took me 4 yrs after release to get my 1st iPod and I wasn't very satisfied...I think my 1st iPhone experience may well be via a cut-price ebay model unless i strike it rich or they sell 'em on hire purchase - otherwise it's not worth the investment from my portfolio. I got more important things to do than waste money on a phone (have one already).

 

[marcol]

What it has also done is HUGE for AT&T. AT&T already has the largest US market share phone wise ..... I have no idea datawise but let's say it's comparable.

It doesn't change the thrust of your argument, but some of your numbers seem pretty wide of the mark.

If Palm had a 5% ,market share (Canalys report) with about 500,000 Treos sold in 2006 (OK I rounded down a bit to make math easy)

Globally, Palm say they sold 0.7 million Treos Q4 2007 (the quarter just ended) and 2.7 million Treos in the fiscal year:

http://investor.palm.com/releaseDetail.cfm?ReleaseID=251832

that's 10,000,000 data devices bought in 2006......

Canalys figures indicate about 77 million 'smart mobile devices' sold globally in calendar year 2006 of which 64 million were what they classify as 'smart phones'. Note that 'smart mobile devices' includes 'handhelds', 'wireless handhelds' and 'smart phones'; you and I would probably classify what they call handhelds as PDAs and include what they classify as wireless handhelds in the smartphone category. So, based on their figures, the number of smartphones sold worldwide 2006 was somewhere between 64 and 77 million.

assuming peeps keep an average of 2 years, that 20 million in use in US at any one time.

This is where I get a bit confused by your post. The only 5% market share number I've seen from Canalys relates to worldwide market share and I'd presumed that because you used that figure that you were talking about global sales. In the US Palm's share is undoubtedly much greater than 5%, largely because Symbian devices, which account for ~70% globally, are few and far between and don't do well there. I've found US-only numbers are harder to come by, but NPD suggest 0.7 million smartphones sold Q3 2006:

http://www.npd.com/press/releases/press_061218.html

On that basis the total US smartphone market would be about 3 million devices per annum (a very rough estimate of course as it's based on data for a single 3-month period).

AT&T picked up 2.5% of that in a weekend and would have done more if many places didn't sell out!

Estimates for iPhone sales over the w/end are in the range 0.5-0.7 million, the higher number is about 1% of the total global smartphone sales for 2006 (based on Canalys figures) and about 25% of the US smartphone sales for 2006 (based on the NPD figures and a healthy dose of extrapolation).

Argue what you will about the accuracy of the numbers in that assessment

Sorry

but it doesn't change the significance of the impact Apple having on those numbers nor the impact on ATT&T's coffers.

Agreed. The (upper) estimate of iPhone sales for the first three days is the same as NPDs estimate for the whole US smartphone market for Q3 2006!

 

[TraecyS/FL]

There's two types of buyers of these devcies:

A. Those who look at a spec list and make a decision based on.
B. Those who look at the experience and make a decision based on.

Many Treo owners fell into the A category but the heart of Treo's success over the years has always been B. Type A users will skip this phone; Type B consumers will flock to it. Most people are "look see" buyers....they walk in to a store, they look, they see and a decision is made in 5 minutes.

..snip...

I haven't read the whole thread, but this explained ME for the few few days. It's nice to find a description that fits "me".

My 650 is having issues with the connector. Crap. OK, so what issues are going to crop up when i get it replaced?? Time to research.

I'm a Verizon Customer - but a Mac user - the iPhone was never on my radar, the feature it DIDN'T have were the key things - 3rd part apps. I"ve spent a lot of time int he last 6 months reading about it - i have friends that will ask about it, and i lke to pretend to be geeky

But i've spent the last few days researching the Palm Options (WM5-6 not options for me - Dad has a 6700 and it's not for me) AND BB ones. I"ve concluded that a BB *might* work, but in more reading - the experience will come up lacking. The things i LOVE about my 650 i won't find on the BB (or the iPhone). Took me awhile to figure that out - but it was important to figure it out here at home (by reading) because hauling 3 kids to the Verizon store to TRY to play with the BB8830.

I have a Treo for a reason - i was tired of carrying 2 devices daily, but i MUST have the Palm side with me most of the time, it solved a huge problem for me. It's been PERFECT. PERFECT! For me, having my MM features on my phone would stink - how could i then talk to the doctors giving them info from the phone - and keep the 2yo entertained with an episode of Higglytown Hero's? I couldn't!

Anyway, i'm psyched about the iPhone. It only has UP to go,and i could be persuaded to get a new widescreen iPod with the feature of the iPhone - minus the phone.

The bar was raised - lets see how it all plays out.... it's a GOOD time to be a "Smartphone" user, things can really only go up!

Tracey... just a boring Homeschooling Mom to 3

 

[mikec#IM]

yep

I hear ya Tracy. There's a lot of us "boring" folks out there.

(But kudos to you on raising you kids youself during the formative years...soon enough they will be too busy with their friends and the iPhone (3rd generation) to have time for their uncool parents ;-)

On another topic, I think it was blatant market manipulation by Goldman Sachs to report 700K iPhones sold, and bump the stock up. I learned a long time ago that their is a clear ulterior motive in all investment companies to skew data to pump up their holding/clients.

Just sad to see the once great Goldman Sachs lose it's integrity.

 

[oalvarez]

c'mon....goldman sachs has no integrity because they are the high end of the range of sales estimates?

this really has become a pointless thread!

 

[Malatesta]

But i've spent the last few days researching the Palm Options (WM5-6 not options for me - Dad has a 6700 and it's not for me)

If all you ever experienced WM5 with is a 6700, then that is not a fair assessment at all. :thumbsdn: Mind you, the 6700 was the 1st WM5 device on the market 2 years ago--it was okay, but definitely a 1st gen product.

If your with Verizon, you should give the 700wx a shot. Just look at the forums and you'll see that the overwhelming majority have been quite pleased with that device. It's like the best of both worlds: You get Palms treatment of WM --> lots of one-handed support, optimized OS and helpful addons with the power and flexibility of WM. It's fast, easy and stable.