1. braj's Avatar
    Wow, that's cool I wonder what unix tools might be included already? Can you use this to navigate the filesystem (I would have to assume you could)? GREAT news!
    08-03-2007 06:21 PM
  2. surur's Avatar
    Built with no cooperation from Apple I might add. The iPhone will get 3rd party apps whether Apple wants them or not.

    Surur
    08-03-2007 06:56 PM
  3. braj's Avatar
    Built with no cooperation from Apple I might add. The iPhone will get 3rd party apps whether Apple wants them or not.

    Surur
    I don't really care how it gets opened up. When I was really last using OS X, there were tons of free or cheap apps that modified the machine so nicely in ways Apple definitely didn't support, and now that it has Terminal the thing really should be opening up wide. Get lots of apps on the platform and I'm probably switching when my 680 needs replacing. I have plenty of time now to follow the iPhone and see what it develops into (or what it fails to possibly). Honestly, it and Apple aren't perfect by a long shot, but the iPhone definitely looks like it will be one of the best handheld solutions in the long run. 1.0 might 'suck' in ways like this thread states and I'll definitely agree with that, but take 3rd party apps off there and to me it is the most compelling device seen yet, with great potential. I think this is big news for the iPhone, unless Apple stops it somehow (mandatory security update maybe).
    08-03-2007 08:07 PM
  4. surur's Avatar
    I don't really care how it gets opened up. When I was really last using OS X, there were tons of free or cheap apps that modified the machine so nicely in ways Apple definitely didn't support, and now that it has Terminal the thing really should be opening up wide. Get lots of apps on the platform and I'm probably switching when my 680 needs replacing. I have plenty of time now to follow the iPhone and see what it develops into (or what it fails to possibly). Honestly, it and Apple aren't perfect by a long shot, but the iPhone definitely looks like it will be one of the best handheld solutions in the long run. 1.0 might 'suck' in ways like this thread states and I'll definitely agree with that, but take 3rd party apps off there and to me it is the most compelling device seen yet, with great potential. I think this is big news for the iPhone, unless Apple stops it somehow (mandatory security update maybe).
    I wonder how you came to this conclusion. as:

    1) as you mentioned Apple can close the gap at any time, breaking older apps, resulting in a persistent game of cat and mouse.
    2) They have to reverse engineer everything, meaning development will be painful and slow.
    3) due to not using a published API, the likelyhood of bugs are higher, and instability even more so.
    4) It still has all the hardware deficiencies, such as no 3G or GPS, and lack of physical keys (for your emulations for example)
    5) Few commercial vendors would want to build a business on a hacked OS, and this will limit the type and quality of software available

    etc etc

    I think your conclusion is a bit premature.

    Surur
    08-03-2007 08:19 PM
  5. braj's Avatar
    btw, all the little things like not being able to turn off the phone without disabling wifi, I'll bet most of those things can now get tweaked with something like TinkerTool for the iPhone. It's a whole new ballgame. New launcher maybe, new way to unlock, so many possibilities for multitouch I'm certain, now the creativity and ingenuity of regular users can be set loose. This is exciting
    08-03-2007 08:20 PM
  6. braj's Avatar
    Surur, thing is, it is in Apple's interests to have it opened up, I think. I bet this is what happens: Apple ignores it while it is a small operation, and works to get an official SDK ready. Then when it is ready, they announce it like it is the Second Coming of the Jesus Phone: Desktop-like applications for the iPhone have arrived! And they will also have a bunch of cool apps and utilities made by the community that will suddenly become available to the average Joe iTunes user.
    08-03-2007 08:27 PM
  7. surur's Avatar
    We shall certainly see.

    Surur
    08-03-2007 10:32 PM
  8. sblanter's Avatar
    "I'm going to quote Ellen Degeneres here. "Anything that requires two hands to do, your brain should be in on it too"."

    Okay, so Ellen is a little slow.

    (I do understand that some people shouldn't make calls when driving - and most know their limitations and don't do it. And the ones who can, realize when driving conditions wouldn't really allow activity with the phone, radio, A/C, light switches, wipers, ww washers, steering wheel, others in the car...).
    08-04-2007 12:39 AM
  9. oalvarez's Avatar
    and so is microsoft with how many clicks, taps and the like it takes to get where ya wanna go
    08-04-2007 12:51 AM
  10. surur's Avatar
    and so is microsoft with how many clicks, taps and the like it takes to get where ya wanna go
    Less than the iPhone.

    For dialing - if you are on the today screen you just start dialing. Smart filtering will mean you do not have to dial the whole number, therefore much less taps. If you are not on the today screen you press the hand phone key, and then dial the same. Only one extra tap.

    On the iPhone even on the home screen you have to press the phone button, then either dial the whole number or look it up in your recent calls or favorites. Many many more clicks and taps.

    In fact, on your soon-to-be-ex Mongul, you are always only one click away from the phone, e-mail, web, camera and connection manager. With the iPhone its always at least one tap extra unless you are already on the home screen.

    Surur
    08-04-2007 05:04 AM
  11. surur's Avatar
    Does the iPhone hate Canada?

    sprague

    Originally Posted by KYBOSH
    Wasn't the advent of the internet (and WiFi) supposed to kill the high cost of telecommunitcations forever????

    I am sure the guy knew he was racking up roaming charges of a few hundred dollars by being international with his iphone but a few THOUSAND is a little out of control.
    MAYBE THE GUY DIDN'T KNOW, BECAUSE I DIDN'T KNOW EITHER!!!

    Soon after my iPhone purchase, I went to Calgary to see family. I new if I used the internet, I would probably get a roaming charge. I showed some family members and was charged $44.91 for 2,994 KB. More expensive than I thought it would be, but I expected the charge. **** BUT BEWARE, what I didn't know is that I was charged anywhere from $.12 to $1.88 about every 8 to 12 minutes. The charges are 24/7 and so I received a $535 bill. I was only in Canada for the weekend, so I can see how someone that maybe spent a week in Canada could easily receive a $3,000 bill. ****

    I did know I would get roaming charges for data that I used, but I didn't know I needed to shut my phone off or I would be charged every few minutes. You can bet I will be on the phone with AT&T in the morning!
    http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost...0&postcount=17

    Surur
    08-04-2007 06:26 AM
  12. zeze22's Avatar
    This guy got what he deserved. You don't travel to another country without checking out the international roaming rates- I just returned from Montreal, and checked the AT&T rates before I left. .79/ min for voice.

    Not sure how this is a criticism of the iPhone , Surur.
    08-04-2007 10:05 AM
  13. surur's Avatar
    This guy got what he deserved. You don't travel to another country without checking out the international roaming rates- I just returned from Montreal, and checked the AT&T rates before I left. .17/ min for voice.

    Not sure how this is a criticism of the iPhone , Surur.
    Did you miss the part where the iPhone was racking up charges behind his back while he was roaming? He ended up having to pay 10 time more than he thought he would.

    Surur
    08-04-2007 10:08 AM
  14. surur's Avatar
    This must have been a sight to behold...

    - - Got kicked out of the Apple store today

    tonyayo 08-04-2007 08:50

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Got kicked out of the Apple store today

    So I had my iPhone for around 4 days. The battery would not hold a charge. I deiced I don't have time to deal with a phone that hasn't been though development. I didn't have the time to be a beta tester and go through 5 phones before I found the one that actually worked 90%.

    No matter how much you love your iPhone you have to admit - it is a beta. It has not been fully tested, it is lacking features out the butt, but it is great at surfing the web and Google maps. But as a phone it is severely lacking.

    My other beef is with iTunes - it would be nice if it just had a file system so you didn't have to use iTunes to get all the data though - like Nokia does with Bluetooth. Did Apple is trying to integrate it's self into their products more then Microsoft does.

    Now for every phone there are things that you will love and hate. With this phone - I hated the entire phone. Loved the internet, Google maps, and processing speed. Still an awesome device in my opinion, yet - not a phone.

    Here is what happened to me at the Apple store:


    Quote:
    So 4 days ago I caved in and bought an iPhone - in those 4 days I realized it was a complete piece of crap as a phone (given the internet browsing was amazing, Google maps was amazing, and e-mail was acceptable). The phone does not allow custom ring tones (you can only use the ones on the phone). It cannot send picture messages to other phones. It doesnt even have a voice recorder (my cell phone from the 90s had that very useful when dealing with police). And thats just the major ones there were many other annoyances with it.

    It was a cool device but totally sucked as a phone, to add on to it I got a defective model and the battery sucked. So I decided to return it. It had nothing to do with the money; my last cell phone was $1,200.

    I walk into the Apple store and say I want to return it. They ask why, and I stated the reasons above. Of course I was quite angry at this point because iTunes just deleted my entire phone for no reason, for the second time I was not in a pleasant mood to say the least.

    The Mac Genius tells me that Apple is aware of the battery problem and is working on a software fix for it.

    I say what ever and I just want to return it. They realize I am pretty pissed and move me over to the side to talk to this little wussy guy. At this point everyone in the store is looking at me, including a man with no arms (I told him not to buy an iPhone). So they start the refund process and then tell me there is a $50 dollar restocking fee. I say I am not going to pay that. They insist I do, this is what happens:

    Me: I am not going to pay the restocking free the phone is 4 days old and it is crap
    Genius: It is store policy
    Me: You knowingly sold me a defective product as the other guy stated earlier.
    Genius: We will replace your phone.
    Me: Great wheres my Nokia 8801?
    Genius: No with another iPhone
    Me: I dont want another iPhone thats why I am returning it it is crap.
    Genius: Sorry sir, its store policy there is nothing I can do about it.

    (Now of course this was not a subtle conversation, I was pretty pissed)

    Me: Pinch my nipples.
    Genius: Excuse me?
    Me: Pinch my nipples.
    Genius: Si..
    Me: Pinch my nipples!
    Genius: Why?
    Me: BECAUSE I LIKE TO GET MY NIPPLES PINCHED WHEN I AM GETTING ****ED THATS WHY!
    Genius: I am going to have to ask you to leave
    Me: Ask me to leave all you want, give me my ****ing money.
    Genius: If you continue to use that language we will kick you out, plus the head phones arent even in the package.
    Me: Just take it back; Ill pay the ****ing restocking fee.
    Genius: Here you go now leave or we will call security.

    I already contacted my credit card company and they arent getting $50 bucks out of me. For a defective phone that should of been tested before release.




    Apples stance on this product is totally unacceptable. I started using my Nokia 8801 again. Called up Customer Care and they are sending me 2 new free batteries because I had complaints about the battery life on that phone (they don't even make the phone anymore - I've had it for well over a year). I don't understand how a company as large as Apple could afford to make such major flaws in product testing and release. It is to funny because everyone is saying, "I will wait out to version 2" - my whole stance on that was, "When version 2 comes out I will buy it." The way I look at it now is V2 is really V1 - Apple just used the general public as beta testers. To think they are missing so much on that phone that lesser phones have, for example: GPS, 3G, Wireless N, Removable Battery , etc. (no matter how many software updates you can't get those things on an iPhone)

    Maybe down the line if they actually turn it info a fully functioning device I will pick it up. I am not a Apple hater or lover (I am how ever a big fan of Steve Jobs).

    Customer service is a joke - HoFo has been much more helpful to me then they were, in all aspects (even response time).

    Final word: The iPhone is a cool device. Nay, an excellent ground breaking device and will most likely lead to a break though in mobile technology. Is it a good phone? No. A phone is something people rely upon to stay connected - a vital necessity in business.

    You may read my previous review of the iPhone here: Tony's Sexist Review of the iPhone

    Best phone I ever had: Nokia 3120 ($79)
    http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=1215574

    Surur
    08-04-2007 10:09 AM
  15. zeze22's Avatar
    Did you miss the part where the iPhone was racking up charges behind his back while he was roaming? He ended up having to pay 10 time more than he thought he would.

    Surur
    Well, data charges are at a premium as well. Every time he opened email, the weather app, Safari, etc- he was charged.

    After reading the rates, I put my phone in Airplane mode.

    I can't see him being charged for doing nothing. We'll see; my next bill will reveal whether I get these same "background" charges.

    If so, that's a call to AT&T, not Apple.

    And, yes, AT&T's cs is abysmal compared with my years at Sprint.
    08-04-2007 10:20 AM
  16. zeze22's Avatar
    This must have been a sight to behold...



    http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=1215574

    Surur
    You certainly don't have to hate Apple products to hate those smarmy, psuedo hipster-dufus (credit to Elaine on Sienfeld) "Geniuses," or to hate the corporation itself.
    08-04-2007 10:26 AM
  17. surur's Avatar
    Well, data charges are at a premium as well. Every time he opened email, the weather app, Safari, etc- he was charged.

    After reading the rates, I put my phone in Airplane mode.

    I can't see him being charged for doing nothing. We'll see; my next bill will reveal whether I get these same "background" charges.

    If so, that's a call to AT&T, not Apple.

    And, yes, AT&T's cs is abysmal compared with my years at Sprint.
    I doubt he was checking his e-mail every 8-10 minutes. It was likely the stocks and weather widget, and of course e-mail.

    Other devices know when you are roaming and switch of such data services.

    Surur
    08-04-2007 10:28 AM
  18. surur's Avatar
    iPhone owner getting iBored. Told to buy a device that runs real OSX...

    - - So ready for some new Apps.

    plessdude 08-04-2007 03:18

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    So ready for some new Apps.

    After seeing that a few home brewed 3rd party apps are beginning to surface I am starting to really want something new to do with this phone. I can't remember the last time I used the same phone for over a month let alone without adding something to it. I am getting so iBored that I am making up reasons to use things like the World Clock and the Timer. I have been through the whole web 2.0 application phase and I have come to the conclusion that if I wanted something like that I would never had given up my Palm VII using PQA's in 1998. I need to pace myself I guess with this current list of apps. I am going to hold off using the Stopwatch at least until September so I have something to look forward to. Its time Apple. Your early adopters are getting restless. Throw us a bone. Anything. A dictionary app or tip calculator at this point would be front page news. Man this phone is like owning a Ferrari that only goes 10mph.

    scaredpoet 08-04-2007 03:37

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by plessdude
    I am going to hold off using the Stopwatch at least until September so I have something to look forward to.




    Uhm... dude, I think you need a hobby.

    that, or if you're really hungry for apps and new widgets, go to the Apple Store and get an iMac, or a MacBook if you want something portable. you'll be able to play with that for months.

    plessdude 08-04-2007 03:42

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by scaredpoet
    Uhm... dude, I think you need a hobby.

    that, or if you're really hungry for apps and new widgets, go to the Apple Store and get an iMac, or a MacBook if you want something portable. you'll be able to play with that for months.



    I have all of the above. Doesn't change the fact that I want a wee bit more functionality from the iPhone. PQA's just are not cutting it.

    scaredpoet 08-04-2007 12:19

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by plessdude
    I have all of the above.




    Sure didn't sound like it!

    At any rate, Apple does have a feedback page, have you sent them a comment?

    http://www.apple.com/feedback/iphone.html
    http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=1215435

    Surur
    08-04-2007 10:56 AM
  19. surur's Avatar
    This is one angry lady...

    - - Iphone Is All Show And No Go! Very Disappointed Customer

    lynne 07-30-2007 12:32 AM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Iphone Is All Show And No Go! Very Disappointed Customer

    Hello,

    The Major Problem With Iphone Is The Text. You Cannot Forward Or Save It In Your Pc. I Need The Text For Court. Even My Old Cell Phone Can Do This. Right Now My Iphone Is Telling Me My Text Are Full And Need To Erase Some. I Can't Understand It. I Have 8 Gb, No Video Yet, No Music. Not Even 50 Mg I Used Yet And I'm Getting This Text Message Is Full. I Told The Techs, I Have Eight Issues I'd Like Help With. My Number Question Was The Above.

    I Called Cingular Tech - Put Me To Six Diff. Techs Put Me On Hold For 10 To 20 Min For Each Tech. They Are Morons.
    I Called Apple Tech - Nice They Answered Right Away, But Cannot Help Me With The Problem. They Said Call At&t... What? I Thought You Guys Are The Expert On Your Iphone?
    I Called At&t Put Me On Hold Total 30 Min. With 3 Diff. Techs -
    Last One's Solution: Why Don't You Take A Camera And Take A Pics Of Your Text? Lol! This Is Embarrassing.

    Total Wasted Time With Iphone Problem Almost 3 Hrs!!!! And That Is Only With Question Number One. What About My Other Seven Issues?

    Message To Iphone Engineers: I Can Save All These Text And Pass It On To Millions Of Others. Can Your Iphone Do The Same? Dudes, All Show And No Go!
    http://www.everythingiphone.com/foru...omer-7406.html

    Surur
    08-04-2007 12:14 PM
  20. Malatesta's Avatar
    I doubt he was checking his e-mail every 8-10 minutes. It was likely the stocks and weather widget, and of course e-mail.

    Other devices know when you are roaming and switch of such data services.

    Surur
    That's what I was going to say...

    On the Treo, it can alert you when Voice and/or Data roaming, before you proceed (you can also disable them if you have no issue when roaming), plus we have that trusty old "home network only" option, to block roaming altogether.

    Is there no alert on the iPhone for when data roaming?
    08-04-2007 12:18 PM
  21. surur's Avatar
    That's what I was going to say...

    On the Treo, it can alert you when Voice and/or Data roaming, before you proceed (you can also disable them if you have no issue when roaming), plus we have that trusty old "home network only" option, to block roaming altogether.

    Is there no alert on the iPhone for when data roaming?
    The manual only suggests "additional charges may apply".

    Surur
    08-04-2007 12:28 PM
  22. braj's Avatar
    If you could just unlock the phone and use a prepaid SIM while out of country...
    08-04-2007 02:17 PM
  23. mikec#IM's Avatar
    If horses were wishes then beggars would ride.

    Sounds like a buncg of iPissed iPhoners.

    No need to get nasty about the return...just say whatever to the restocking fee and call your credit card to dispute.

    I love the comparison to PQA's. It's deja vu all over again.
    08-04-2007 05:29 PM
  24. braj's Avatar
    Man this phone is like owning a Ferrari that only goes 10mph.
    That's EXACTLY how I feel about the iPhone currently.
    08-04-2007 06:57 PM
  25. mikec#IM's Avatar
    Maybe your requirements for a Ferrari are lower than other Ferrari owners.

    :-)
    08-04-2007 07:34 PM
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