1. surur's Avatar
    Palm OS devices have had it for over 5 years, yet almost every WM device is still stuck in the lower 320x240. That is my point.
    This is a poor point, as I certainly have a VGA-screened device, so it cant be so rare. Many PDA WM devices have VGA screens, there are a number of VGA-screened phones around, and more coming with 800x480 resolution.

    Most WM devices have small 2.8 inch screens, where VGA screens would be very expensive, and add only little benefit. Small VGA screens are quite rare.

    Sorry, but I'm dragging around the hulking HTC universal. Its not a cellphone, its a mini-laptop.
    Funny, it makes phone calls and fits in my pocket. I could have sworn it was a cellphone.

    Anyway, the point I am making is that the screen resolution by itself does not impress me, and how could it, when I already have a larger screen with a higher resolution? Sure, its slim design is moderately impressive, but the resolution by itself leaves me cold.

    Surur
    08-03-2007 11:11 AM
  2. surur's Avatar
    I dont buy it, as Surur said, higher-rez screens have been around for years.
    True, but they are always more expensive. Say a QVGA screen is $30, and a VGA screen is $70. HTC obviously decided the increased sales would not be made up by the increased costs.

    Surur
    08-03-2007 11:19 AM
  3. oalvarez's Avatar
    Oalvarez, I wonder if you appreciate some of the little touches in WM6, such as the smart dialer application, or that your recent calls are now stored with the contact you are dialing.

    BTW, there is a registry edit to increase the width of the scroll bar (if that really really bothers you).

    Also have you customized the menus and buttons to your preferences?

    Surur
    it's tough to appreciate anything when your device hesitates to operate because its memory has run too low. just this morning i reset the device, had 25mb available, opened PIE, went to CNN.com (changed screen orientation), opened email, then changed orientation, and the screen had difficulty going back to its Today/Home page. that is weak, you can call it what you want.

    as for the scroll bars, it's pretty silly in my book to offer scroll bars but not be able to use your fingers due to how thin they are (i refuse to use a stylus). exactly: a registry edit.....everything requires some sort of hack or registry edit to make the thing function the way it should. Hobbes was kind enough to point me in the direction of these hacks and the like and i appreciate him wanting to help. i simply find all of these hacks as band-aid remedies for larger problems.

    recent calls stored with the contact? hec, all i know is that i can see my recent calls from the "recent calls" tab on the iPhone. i really don't find what you offer to be all that special.

    doesn't look to be what i'm after. the memory issue simply doesn't cut it and i had yet to even install Goodlink (a requirement for my business email needs) on it. i'm not saying it's a bad device but it doesn't look like it will be replacing my Pearl.
    08-03-2007 11:29 AM
  4. Malatesta's Avatar
    I would also question the relevance of a super high resolution screen on a cell phone or business orientated device.

    Sure it "looks nice" (cool, sweet, etc.) and in general I'm okay if a device offers a high resolution screen, but at the end of the day most cell phones/smartphones do not need a high resolution screen.

    The iPhone is made to be a media device, especially for watching iTune movies and shows, so like the PSP it really benefits from a high res screen; WM devices are not advertised as such and MS does not promote WM devices as media centric handheld for watching movies, TV, etc. This also means very little for other devices (e.g. Gameboy DS) and the fact that most people do not need their email, contacts, notes or a battery meter in high resolution.

    So outside of just aesthetic preference and higher cost the actual benefit is not that great to the end user.

    Once again we're coming back to an argument of form vs. function i.e. it just looks cool.
    08-03-2007 11:31 AM
  5. surur's Avatar
    it's tough to appreciate anything when your device hesitates to operate because its memory has run too low. just this morning i reset the device, had 25mb available, opened PIE, went to CNN.com (changed screen orientation), opened email, then changed orientation, and the screen had difficulty going back to its Today/Home page. that is weak, you can call it what you want.

    as for the scroll bars, it's pretty silly in my book to offer scroll bars but not be able to use your fingers due to how thin they are (i refuse to use a stylus). exactly: a registry edit.....everything requires some sort of hack or registry edit to make the thing function the way it should. Hobbes was kind enough to point me in the direction of these hacks and the like and i appreciate him wanting to help. i simply find all of these hacks as band-aid remedies for larger problems.

    recent calls stored with the contact? hec, all i know is that i can see my recent calls from the "recent calls" tab on the iPhone. i really don't find what you offer to be all that special.

    doesn't look to be what i'm after. the memory issue simply doesn't cut it and i had yet to even install Goodlink (a requirement for my business email needs) on it. i'm not saying it's a bad device but it doesn't look like it will be replacing my Pearl.
    I think the hack it not to make it function the way it should, but to make it function the way you WANT it to function. You refuse to use the stylus, but the designers decided to accommodate you with a D-Pad and scroll wheel. It did not occur to them that this would not be enough for you, but fortunately the device is flexible enough to be hacked to do what you want. Thats the beauty of an open OS. The good news (for you at least) is that finger scrolling will be coming to all new HTC devices soon.

    The recent calls are in the call history list but ALSO stored with a contact, so when you look up a contact you can see when and for how long you spoke to them. WM often offers many ways to accessing the same data.

    As to memory, I suggest not worrying about it unless it pops up an error.

    Surur
    08-03-2007 11:38 AM
  6. marcol's Avatar
    Sorry, but I'm not dragging around the hulking HTC universal. Its not a cellphone, its a mini-laptop.
    I agree. I thought for a while about a Nokia E90. It's smaller than a Universal and pretty loaded, but simply too big (for me). Horses for courses, but I'd guess that the number of people for whom the Universal is an acceptable size is really quite small. It's more than twice the weight of the iPhone!
    08-03-2007 11:39 AM
  7. Malatesta's Avatar
    it's tough to appreciate anything when your device hesitates to operate because its memory has run too low. just this morning i reset the device, had 25mb available, opened PIE, went to CNN.com (changed screen orientation), opened email, then changed orientation, and the screen had difficulty going back to its Today/Home page. that is weak, you can call it what you want.

    as for the scroll bars, it's pretty silly in my book to offer scroll bars but not be able to use your fingers due to how thin they are (i refuse to use a stylus). exactly: a registry edit.....everything requires some sort of hack or registry edit to make the thing function the way it should. Hobbes was kind enough to point me in the direction of these hacks and the like and i appreciate him wanting to help. i simply find all of these hacks as band-aid remedies for larger problems.

    recent calls stored with the contact? hec, all i know is that i can see my recent calls from the "recent calls" tab on the iPhone. i really don't find what you offer to be all that special.

    doesn't look to be what i'm after. the memory issue simply doesn't cut it and i had yet to even install Goodlink (a requirement for my business email needs) on it. i'm not saying it's a bad device but it doesn't look like it will be replacing my Pearl.
    You realize most of your arguments are crap, right?

    (a) You knew the Mogul had low memory before you bought it, you knew it was an issue, yet you still went ahead. Just about everyone has lamented the issue. I think the Mogul is 2 years too late. Sprint should have at least have gotten the Kaiser to be relative...
    (b) you refuse to use a stylus on a device that is meant for stylus use, yet somehow it is "silly" that MS did not accommodate your need to use the device as not intended. Should I ***** about the iPhone because I can't use a stylus? Is that a legitimate complaint too?
    (c) all those "hacks" are not to make it work the way it should be so you can customize every aspect to your liking; it's a choice not a requirement.
    (d) the recent call history w/contact feature is important for business users since they now have a call history associated with that contact. Instead of just searching your call history for "Jane" two weeks ago, you just jump to "Jane" in your contacts and see when you last spoke to her. If you make hundreds of calls to many people, it's very valuable. I can't believe I have to explain that to you...
    (e) You don't even need this device. You said you don't need the 3rd party apps and you just need instant email. So why go with a Wm device as opposed to just your BB? You don't do any real office work on your smartphone so WM is not a good choice for you...
    08-03-2007 11:40 AM
  8. oalvarez's Avatar
    You refuse to use the stylus, but the designers decided to accommodate you with a D-Pad and scroll wheel.
    that's right, i refuse to use a stylus as it's something that i haven't needed to do with the Pearl for the longest while (and iphone). the D-Pad doesn't work all that well when you're trying to jump from the bottom of a page back to the top, matter of fact, it's almost useless in my book. isn't there some other way to page up like with a blackberry? hec, with the iPhone you can do it almost instantaneously.

    The recent calls are in the call history list but ALSO stored with a contact, so when you look up a contact you can see when and for how long you spoke to them. WM often offers many ways to accessing the same data.
    i think it's great if you find this useful, i do not, it's just not that important to me.

    As to memory, I suggest not worrying about it unless it pops up an error.
    this is about the silliest thing you could say. don't worry about the device hesitating or freezing up....just reset it and everything will be ok, right? the memory is deficient and how it handles it is just the same. no thanks man, those days are over for me.
    08-03-2007 11:48 AM
  9. braj's Avatar
    I think Ollie was just bored with his iPhone and wanted a new toy. Of course he probably wouldn't admit that
    08-03-2007 11:51 AM
  10. oalvarez's Avatar
    You realize most of your arguments are crap, right?

    (a) You knew the Mogul had low memory before you bought it, you knew it was an issue, yet you still went ahead. Just about everyone has lamented the issue. I think the Mogul is 2 years too late. Sprint should have at least have gotten the Kaiser to be relative...
    (b) you refuse to use a stylus on a device that is meant for stylus use, yet somehow it is "silly" that MS did not accommodate your need to use the device as not intended. Should I ***** about the iPhone because I can't use a stylus? Is that a legitimate complaint too?
    (c) all those "hacks" are not to make it work the way it should be so you can customize every aspect to your liking; it's a choice not a requirement.
    (d) the recent call history w/contact feature is important for business users since they now have a call history associated with that contact. Instead of just searching your call history for "Jane" two weeks ago, you just jump to "Jane" in your contacts and see when you last spoke to her. If you make hundreds of calls to many people, it's very valuable. I can't believe I have to explain that to you...
    (e) You don't even need this device. You said you don't need the 3rd party apps and you just need instant email. So why go with a Wm device as opposed to just your BB? You don't do any real office work on your smartphone so WM is not a good choice for you...

    whatever you say, Mal, whatever you say.
    08-03-2007 11:54 AM
  11. mikec#IM's Avatar
    this is what makes us laugh......you don't like someone responding to your question with "because i can" but it's ok for you to label the comment as childish. i see.

    hope you enjoy my thoughts on the Mogul....you can see more of it at http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...=146575&page=7
    Thanks for sharing your views.
    08-03-2007 12:12 PM
  12. mobileman's Avatar
    I would also question the relevance of a super high resolution screen on a cell phone or business orientated device.

    Sure it "looks nice" (cool, sweet, etc.) and in general I'm okay if a device offers a high resolution screen, but at the end of the day most cell phones/smartphones do not need a high resolution screen.

    That makes perfect sense for anybody that thinks 240x240 is acceptable. To me its not. Would you be alright if the next treo was 160x160? Who cares what it looks like, right?


    Higher resolution screens are alot easier on my old eyes. Everything just looks better and clearer. It also makes using the phone alot more pleasant experience. Whats wrong with wanting that?

    Almost every preview I have seen of the kaiser say the same thing. Awesome features, BUT where is the high res. screen. I guess I'm not the only one.
    08-03-2007 12:12 PM
  13. mobileman's Avatar
    I agree. I thought for a while about a Nokia E90. It's smaller than a Universal and pretty loaded, but simply too big (for me). Horses for courses, but I'd guess that the number of people for whom the Universal is an acceptable size is really quite small. It's more than twice the weight of the iPhone!

    Agreed, way to big. Interesting outer screen though. Makes you wonder why the Universal doesn't have an outer screen.
    08-03-2007 12:14 PM
  14. mobileman's Avatar
    True, but they are always more expensive. Say a QVGA screen is $30, and a VGA screen is $70. HTC obviously decided the increased sales would not be made up by the increased costs.

    Surur

    Are you telling me potential kaiser owners wouldn't pay and extra $40 for a higher resolution screen? I think you might be crazy.
    08-03-2007 12:16 PM
  15. CountBuggula's Avatar
    Thats what minimo is. Its a bit heavy however, but probably runs fine in 128 MB ram and 624 Mhz processor.

    BTW, have you tried bloglines. It feels like what you are talking about. I have 72 sites in my bloglines feed. I can see which ones are updated, the RSS feeds feel like mobile sites, and when the feed is no full, if I click on the headline it opens the full site using skweezer.

    I think its brilliant, and you should really give it a try.

    Surur
    Oh, hey cool. I didn't know about minimo....too bad it's only for WM though.
    08-03-2007 12:21 PM
  16. CountBuggula's Avatar
    That makes perfect sense for anybody that thinks 240x240 is acceptable. To me its not. Would you be alright if the next treo was 160x160? Who cares what it looks like, right?


    Higher resolution screens are alot easier on my old eyes. Everything just looks better and clearer. It also makes using the phone alot more pleasant experience. Whats wrong with wanting that?

    Almost every preview I have seen of the kaiser say the same thing. Awesome features, BUT where is the high res. screen. I guess I'm not the only one.
    240x240 is one of the major reasons why I've never been able to bring myself to use a WM Treo. Granted I have to deal with frankengarnet instead...but at least I have lots of screen real estate.
    08-03-2007 12:22 PM
  17. surur's Avatar
    I am not buying a Kaiser due to the screen rez, but I would not buy a more poorly specified device that only had a better screen.

    Surur
    08-03-2007 12:31 PM
  18. mobileman's Avatar
    I am not buying a Kaiser due to the screen rez, but I would not buy a more poorly specified device that only had a better screen.

    Surur
    I would never buy a device just for its screen, or else I would have bought a universal.
    08-03-2007 12:35 PM
  19. marcol's Avatar
    Agreed, way to big. Interesting outer screen though. Makes you wonder why the Universal doesn't have an outer screen.
    That was almost its saving grace for me. Outer screen gives you the full S60 UI at 240x320. Open it up for the QWERTY and access to the 800x352 internal screen. Nice... but just too big (still half an iPhone lighter than the Universal though )
    08-03-2007 12:47 PM
  20. surur's Avatar
    I would never buy a device just for its screen, or else I would have bought a universal.
    It has a bit more, like one of the best PDA keyboards and 3G data, not to mention a rotatable screen.

    Surur
    08-03-2007 12:49 PM
  21. mobileman's Avatar
    It has a bit more, like one of the best PDA keyboards and 3G data, not to mention a rotatable screen.

    Surur

    At that size, it should run windows xp.
    08-03-2007 12:53 PM
  22. surur's Avatar
    Are you telling me potential kaiser owners wouldn't pay and extra $40 for a higher resolution screen? I think you might be crazy.
    Say HTC sells 2 million Kaisers in total. It probably costs them about $250 to make. Adding in a VGA screen would add 16% to the price.

    Now if they pass that cost on to the customer, the device may end up costing $100 more, which may move it from a $600 to a $700 device (or $300 to $400 subsidized) which may cost them 20-30% sales from most people, who can not really appreciate such a high rez 2.8 inch screen.

    I am one of the people turned of by the low res screen in such a high-end device, but I can understand the reasoning. At least HTC will cater to me with the HTC Omni. The Eten X800 also have a 2.8 inch VGA screen, so the competition may prompt HTC to step up to the plate.

    Surur
    08-03-2007 01:03 PM
  23. surur's Avatar
    At that size, it should run windows xp.
    Its not that big. It is a two year old device, you know. I think you are talking about the HTC Shift, which runs Windows Vista and WM6.



    7-inch widescreen display
    30-gigabyte hard drive
    QWERTY keyboard
    Microsoft Vista Business OS
    Windows Media Player 11
    Tri-Band UMTS/HSDPA
    Quad-Band GSM/GPRS/EDGE
    WiFi and Bluetooth 2.0
    Surur
    08-03-2007 01:08 PM
  24. mobileman's Avatar
    Say HTC sells 2 million Kaisers in total. It probably costs them about $250 to make. Adding in a VGA screen would add 16% to the price.

    Now if they pass that cost on to the customer, the device may end up costing $100 more, which may move it from a $600 to a $700 device (or $300 to $400 subsidized) which may cost them 20-30% sales from most people, who can not really appreciate such a high rez 2.8 inch screen.

    I am one of the people turned of by the low res screen in such a high-end device, but I can understand the reasoning. At least HTC will cater to me with the HTC Omni. The Eten X800 also have a 2.8 inch VGA screen, so the competition may prompt HTC to step up to the plate.

    Surur
    The Eten looks interesting, except thats its $900 and has a really terrible looking dpad/joystick. Also, without a usable on screen keyboard how are you suppose to type?

    How do you know how much extra a high-res. screen will cost? I doubt your numbers. I will try to find the link, but somebody broke down an iPhone and found it only cost about $300 (maybe less), to build.
    08-03-2007 01:09 PM
  25. mobileman's Avatar
    Its not that big. It is a two year old device, you know. I think you are talking about the HTC Shift, which runs Windows Vista and WM6.





    Surur
    I'm sorry Surur, but the Universal is way to big to use as a cellphone. When somebody calls you, you actually have to open that thing up to see who is calling. I dont get how anybody could use this as their phone.
    08-03-2007 01:13 PM
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