1. AnteL0pe's Avatar
    And still completely valid since the video exists to prove my point!! If you put up smartphones then imply the iPhone is better than them, just what exactly are you doing if not comparing??? Who am I going to believe, YOU or my eyes??!!
    Its not valid if taken out of context. Jobs wasn't saying "Look at these smartphones, the iphone is a better smartphone." Jobs was saying "Look at these phones with keyboards, ours will be a different keyboard."

    He wasn't comparing it to smartphones, he was comparing the keyboards. Nothing more.

    Who put together that chart? If it was Apple, they're doing it again! If not, someone else somehow thinks the iPhone is a business phone. I think this comparison may be hard to get away from.
    Look at what is being compared in the chart. It has nothing to do with business features.
    08-02-2007 11:32 AM
  2. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    But yet, 3 business phones and no other multi-media phones like the Nokia N73/N91 and the Sony Ericsson W850i/W900i. I know what I'm looking at, I'm not that blind!! They are using smartphones for a reason in their comparisons!!

    P.S. I just checked and the N95 is also classified as a Symbian smartphone. You can continue to say Apple isn't trying to compare iPhone to smartphones, but visual evidence says otherwise, regardless of what kind of spin you put on it!
    08-02-2007 11:37 AM
  3. mikec#IM's Avatar
    Again with the keynote!!!!!

    who is comparing the iPhone to a true business device? i've participated in this thread and really don't find that to be the case. i think it's more the opposite actually. but the keynote comment is really getting a bit long in the tooth.
    Yes, again, we with the keynote - It was Jobs pitch for the iPhone. Clearly put it in the smartphone market.

    It's not long in the tooth at all. It's a legit item, because a lot of peopl got iPhone to replace their Treo/BB/etc. device, only to find it wasnt quite there yet.
    08-02-2007 11:49 AM
  4. mobileman's Avatar
    Granted, like yourself I would like the best of everything, but just due to practicalities, I hate the idea of loading a full website "on the go".

    Its funny how you like to jump all over every little thing you think the iPhone lacks, but you fully accept a 240x240 screen, and visiting mobile websites. Two things I will never accept again on a phone.

    I guess to each their own.
    08-02-2007 11:51 AM
  5. braj's Avatar
    Apple called it 'competitive data' so doesn't that mean Apple sees these devices as competitors? And wouldn't that mean if you are comparing features and functionality, all things are fair game at that point? Point out the iPhone's strengths and ignore the things it may be weaker at, but say you aren't comparing the features it isn't good at because it isn't meant to compete with them seems like you are trying to have it both ways.
    08-02-2007 11:52 AM
  6. mobileman's Avatar
    You've used a lot of devices with keyboards, correct?

    Despite the comments from "it's not so bad" to "wonderful", compared to other physical keyboards, the iPhone's isn't all that good. (prone to errors if you want to type fast.)
    In MY OPINION, I think its the best keyboard on any device I have ever used.



    Web browsing, which everyone heralds, is actually sorta frustrating - first, the full page view is too tiny, and the zoom-in, finger drag or flick to view the page. There is a lot of gesturing needed just to read through a page.Coming from using a D-Pad to scroll up and down and scroll left/right, it's definitely more work.
    Huh, I just tap the screen, and it seems to reformat all the text just fine. I never really need any additional zooming. Are you sure you have an iPhone?

    And of course, the vertical to horizontal switching is very angle dependent, and quite often doesn't work.
    What? It works just fine for me.
    08-02-2007 11:55 AM
  7. mikec#IM's Avatar
    Thanks for proving my point. Nothing here relating to business. Its all about media.


    You can add crappy browsers that cant compete with Safari. You can add storage, thankfully I don't have to. You can change the UI, but it still isnt going to be as nice as OS X IMHO. Your opinion of the WM UI is probably different than mine, but we have already established that you place very little value on appearance.
    If it was all about media, then why compare to these phones? There are many better examples of "media" phones out there?

    Still said they wanted to leapfrog and make something 5 years ahead.

    While they didn't exactly say "replace your smartphone with this", they made comparisons.

    Safari is nice (on Wifi), although I think the gesture intesiveness detracts from it somewhat.
    08-02-2007 12:03 PM
  8. AnteL0pe's Avatar
    But yet, 3 business phones and no other multi-media phones like the Nokia N73/N91 and the Sony Ericsson W850i/W900i. I know what I'm looking at, I'm not that blind!! They are using smartphones for a reason in their comparisons!!

    P.S. I just checked and the N95 is also classified as a Symbian smartphone. You can continue to say Apple isn't trying to compare iPhone to smartphones, but visual evidence says otherwise, regardless of what kind of spin you put on it!
    Ok aside from one graph comparing multimedia capabilities and a moment in the keynote comparing keyboards, what other marketing is Apple doing to sell this as a smartphone or a business phone? The prominent TV ads show media use, phone use and google maps. There's hardly even a mention of email let alone any other business apps. So aside from the two instances you have, which i believe you are taking out of context, what else is there? With all the TV ads that Apple has bought why aren't they pushing the iPhone as a business phone in any of them?

    In MY OPINION, I think its the best keyboard on any device I have ever used.
    I agree, having used the iPhone since day one I am now much faster with this keyboard than I ever was with my 650, and I love that keyboard.
    08-02-2007 12:04 PM
  9. mikec#IM's Avatar
    Its not valid if taken out of context. Jobs wasn't saying "Look at these smartphones, the iphone is a better smartphone." Jobs was saying "Look at these phones with keyboards, ours will be a different keyboard."

    He wasn't comparing it to smartphones, he was comparing the keyboards. Nothing more.


    Look at what is being compared in the chart. It has nothing to do with business features.
    Bovine-dookey.

    Comparing the keyboard implies you need a keyboard for functions....functions that smartphones do.

    Steve also compared the email to a Blackberry. You want deny how that isn't business related?
    08-02-2007 12:07 PM
  10. oalvarez's Avatar
    It's not long in the tooth at all. It's a legit item, because a lot of peopl got iPhone to replace their Treo/BB/etc. device, only to find it wasnt quite there yet.
    really now.....do you know these people? because if you do, they're idiots.
    08-02-2007 12:09 PM
  11. mobileman's Avatar
    a lot of peopl got iPhone to replace their Treo/BB/etc. device, only to find it wasnt quite there yet.
    My blackberry has been sitting in my desk draw for a month now. Not once have I had the urge to pick it back up.

    Did you do a formal poll or did you just ask random people at the mall?
    08-02-2007 12:14 PM
  12. AnteL0pe's Avatar
    Bovine-dookey.

    Comparing the keyboard implies you need a keyboard for functions....functions that smartphones do.
    Thats an enormous stretch.

    Steve also compared the email to a Blackberry. You want deny how that isn't business related?
    So the only use for email is business? i've used a 650 for years and an iPhone since they were released and never once used either for corporate email.
    08-02-2007 12:15 PM
  13. mikec#IM's Avatar
    In MY OPINION, I think its the best keyboard on any device I have ever used.





    Huh, I just tap the screen, and it seems to reformat all the text just fine. I never really need any additional zooming. Are you sure you have an iPhone?



    What? It works just fine for me.

    If it's the best keyboard, that's fine. I am curious which devices you have used to make the comparison.

    I have used an iPhone extensively; I'm not sure what sites you visit, but "full" sites require quite a bit of "zooming and moving".

    If it works great for you, that's great. I just notice that the plane/angle at which you hold the iPhone affects how the accelerometer works. Unless you are at the proper angle, you can get into "flip-flop" land, where you are turning the iPhone like one of those snow globes to get the orientation to switch.
    08-02-2007 12:23 PM
  14. mikec#IM's Avatar
    My blackberry has been sitting in my desk draw for a month now. Not once have I had the urge to pick it back up.

    Did you do a formal poll or did you just ask random people at the mall?
    Per Ollie's commnet above, does that make you an *****? (i don't think so, but Ollie does).

    I'm basing it on comments on this and other forums. Some people did this (like you; replace smartphone with iPhone).

    Oh, and if you want another Apple Store visit story....was there yesterday....plenty of iPhones on display. One person getting the feature review from staff. Spent nearly 30 min with her, very helpful. It was all good until she said, I need to go to go overseas next month, and they explained she would need to use ATT intl roaming. You could almost hear her face sag (because she was used to swapping SIMs out).

    A one more person (kid) came into to check out iPhone. This was over a 45 minute period. High traffic store.

    I really hope they are selling more online or at ATT stores.
    08-02-2007 12:31 PM
  15. mikec#IM's Avatar
    Thats an enormous stretch.


    So the only use for email is business? i've used a 650 for years and an iPhone since they were released and never once used either for corporate email.
    Stretch? Hardly. Logical conclusion.

    Don't switch subject. It's not about email not being personal and business. It's about comparing to Blackberry, which, by and large is, used for business (and personal) email.

    You compared to a BB, you are coming email, specifically business email.
    08-02-2007 12:34 PM
  16. mobileman's Avatar
    If it's the best keyboard, that's fine. I am curious which devices you have used to make the comparison.
    Every treo ever made, 8125, Tytn, blackberry curve, pearl, 7100, 8700, nokia e70, e61

    I have used an iPhone extensively; I'm not sure what sites you visit, but "full" sites require quite a bit of "zooming and moving".
    I only visit full sites, All I do is double tap the screen, and it fits the text in perfectly. Only scrolling I do is up and down. You did know your iPhone can do that, right?


    If it works great for you, that's great. I just notice that the plane/angle at which you hold the iPhone affects how the accelerometer works. Unless you are at the proper angle, you can get into "flip-flop" land, where you are turning the iPhone like one of those snow globes to get the orientation to switch.
    I turn it on it's side and it goes horizontal. I put it back upright, and it switches back vertical. Never get the "snow globe" thing you talk about.
    08-02-2007 12:35 PM
  17. mobileman's Avatar
    I'm basing it on comments on this and other forums. Some people did this (like you; replace smartphone with iPhone).
    Your using forum posts to gather data on amount of people satisfied with switching from a blackberry to an iPhone. Thats almost as lame as going to an apple store to check on iPhone sales.

    Oh wait.......
    Oh, and if you want another Apple Store visit story....was there yesterday....plenty of iPhones on display. One person getting the feature review from staff. Spent nearly 30 min with her, very helpful. It was all good until she said, I need to go to go overseas next month, and they explained she would need to use ATT intl roaming. You could almost hear her face sag (because she was used to swapping SIMs out).


    I really hope they are selling more online or at ATT stores.
    08-02-2007 12:39 PM
  18. AnteL0pe's Avatar
    You compared to a BB, you are coming email, specifically business email.
    I dont remember the comparison, i'll have to go back and look. But if the comparison was simply the email interface then i have to disagree with you.
    08-02-2007 12:40 PM
  19. surur's Avatar
    I am having deja vu. Did we not have this conversation already a few hunderd post ago?

    Surur
    08-02-2007 12:43 PM
  20. whmurray's Avatar
    I am having deja vu. Did we not have this conversation already a few hunderd post ago?

    Surur
    I agree. I am getting a little tired of he-said/she-said. If we haven't resolved it yet, we are not likely to. Can we get back to substance? Is there any?
    08-02-2007 12:46 PM
  21. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    Ok aside from one graph comparing multimedia capabilities and a moment in the keynote comparing keyboards, what other marketing is Apple doing to sell this as a smartphone or a business phone? The prominent TV ads show media use, phone use and google maps. There's hardly even a mention of email let alone any other business apps. So aside from the two instances you have, which i believe you are taking out of context, what else is there? With all the TV ads that Apple has bought why aren't they pushing the iPhone as a business phone in any of them?
    Because on TV, to sell to the general public, glossy and cool will sell more than pushing "boring" business functions! Apple doesn't do boring.

    Apple wants EVERYONE to buy this phone. For both business and pleasure. They used the smartphone comparisons for those who actually check and compare specs online. And the cool factor for everyone else, like on the TV ads. The smartphone comparisons are also hints that iPhone is better than the specs of a smartphone.
    08-02-2007 12:50 PM
  22. surur's Avatar
    Can we get back to substance? Is there any?
    This is a funny question

    Surur
    08-02-2007 12:51 PM
  23. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    My blackberry has been sitting in my desk draw for a month now. Not once have I had the urge to pick it back up.

    Did you do a formal poll or did you just ask random people at the mall?
    Are you selling your Curve?
    08-02-2007 12:54 PM
  24. mobileman's Avatar
    Are you selling your Curve?
    No. I like to collect old devices. The curve is by far my second favorite device right now. I actually like the BB OS a lot. What other OS makes it so easy to switch the size and style of fonts. If the BB had a large hi-rez screen like the iPhone, it what be difficult not to use it as my primary device.
    08-02-2007 12:58 PM
  25. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    But yet you haven't used it in a month and sound a bit disdainful of it when comparing it to the iPhone.
    08-02-2007 01:01 PM
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