1. zeze22's Avatar
    Yep, with buttons it is a one-handed, slight movement of the thumb. With iPhone, it is mostly a two-handed, more dramatic movements to get things done. I love the idea, and I love the screen real estate, but I'll visit the low-bandwidth, mobile versions of sites for now, avoid lots of adds (I like that part a lot), and do it one handed most of the time. Then when I need two hands instead of having a UI that is dominated by large buttons, I have a pinpoint stylus which has worked really well for me for years and years.

    I'm not saying that the Palm is superior or anything, what I'm saying is different things work well on different devices. I would like to see the best of all devices and technologies melded into one uber-device that doesn't throw the baby out with the bathwater, so to speak. And I want the freedom to do what I want with it regarding the possibilities of the hardware and software.
    This is the exact opposite of the truth. One-handed use while surfing is the norm on iPhone. You double tap on a section of text or picture to zoom it to the exact width of the screen.
    08-01-2007 08:02 PM
  2. braj's Avatar
    I'm not just talking about web surfing, but working in the UI in general.
    08-01-2007 08:21 PM
  3. mikec#IM's Avatar
    This is the exact opposite of the truth. One-handed use while surfing is the norm on iPhone. You double tap on a section of text or picture to zoom it to the exact width of the screen.
    I'm sorry, but this is just not true. Anyone who has used an iPhone knows web browsing is a two-handed experience (for the most part).
    08-01-2007 08:36 PM
  4. mikec#IM's Avatar
    I'm not just talking about web surfing, but working in the UI in general.
    I think the term is "gesture intensive". :-)
    08-01-2007 08:36 PM
  5. Malatesta's Avatar
    I love the idea, and I love the screen real estate, but I'll visit the low-bandwidth, mobile versions of sites for now, avoid lots of adds (I like that part a lot), and do it one handed most of the time.
    That's my thought on it too. It would be nice for Wifi connections to get the "full web site" thing but for Edge connections or even 3g, mobile sites work much better e.g. I just timed the NY Times mobile site: 4 seconds from the time I click till it's loaded; 4 more seconds to load a link. It's the same story, with the accompanying picture as the full site, just streamlined (usatoday, newsweek, google home, treocentral, etc. are all the same way).

    Granted, like yourself I would like the best of everything, but just due to practicalities, I hate the idea of loading a full website "on the go". I think once 4g (wimax) hits then we can really begin to open up the possibilities of "mobile internet" (imagine a 4g iPhone with Safari?). Until that point, some sacrifices need to be made if the task is to be practical.

    Out of curiosity, over Edge how long does it take to load the NY Times Home page and then to click/load the link to the story?
    08-01-2007 08:41 PM
  6. braj's Avatar
    I think even with Safari it would be best to use a site optimized for the small screen. Apple even recommends as much with their developer info for webmasters.
    08-01-2007 09:07 PM
  7. Malatesta's Avatar
    I think even with Safari it would be best to use a site optimized for the small screen. Apple even recommends as much with their developer info for webmasters.
    Evidently, the www.google.com/m site works on the iPhone as it would on any mobile device.

    You can then under the settings have it "google optimize" any site it gives you. You then can search for say www.cnn.com and it'll give you the google mobile version (much like skweezer actually). So that is one way to make it faster.
    08-01-2007 09:32 PM
  8. zeze22's Avatar
    I'm sorry, but this is just not true. Anyone who has used an iPhone knows web browsing is a two-handed experience (for the most part).
    Ive used one daily for the past month.
    08-01-2007 10:14 PM
  9. mikec#IM's Avatar
    zeze,

    I don't know what sites you vists and what your definition of browsing is, but doing it one handed is awkward and not easily doable.
    08-01-2007 10:32 PM
  10. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    You are sticking to your own definition of "capable." Not everyone needs to do what you do with their phone. If people just want the best mobile browser on the planet, email, text messaging, phone, decent camera plus a lot more then this phone is indeed capable. I have no need to be restricted to a smaller, less clear screen. I have no need to use outlook on my personal phone, I have no need for most of what you are claiming the iPhone can't do. So how is any other device any more capable than the iPhone if the iPhone does everything i need it to?
    I'll say it again. Had Jobs not slyly placed this in the same class as smartphones, this might not have happened. WM is clearly a mobile BUSINESS OS, the OSX on the iPhone is more of a MULTI-MEDIA OS. Many people on here are still comparing the iPhone to a true business device, I've fallen into that trap myself. But they might not have done so had the keynote not shown the Treo, BB Pearl and E62 for a comparison.

    Now if you try to use a multi-media phone to get some serious work done, you MAY not be able to, depending on what you need to do. That's why people keep using the term "capable", they're actually comparing iPhone to a true business-featured smartphone. If we could all agree that the iPhone as it is now may not be suitable entirely for business, the comparisons may end(for now, until the 2nd version comes out, LOL!).
    08-02-2007 04:53 AM
  11. surur's Avatar
    If we could all agree that the iPhone as it is now may not be suitable entirely for business, the comparisons may end(for now, until the 2nd version comes out, LOL!).
    NASA certainly does not think so.

    - Apple iPhone Out, BlackBerry 8800 In At NASA
    johnee 08-01-2007 09:48 AM

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    Apple iPhone Out, BlackBerry 8800 In At NASA

    Link


    Quote:

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    Apple iPhone Out, BlackBerry 8800 In At NASA

    The minutes of a meeting of NASA tech officials show that the space agency has determined the iPhone "not to be enterprise ready."

    By Paul McDougall
    InformationWeek
    July 31, 2007 09:20 AM

    NASA astronauts and other employees won't be using Apple iPhones to surf the Internet or send text messages anytime soon -- at least not while they're on the job.

    On the other hand, they could soon have access to spiffy new BlackBerrys.

    The space agency has determined the iPhone "not to be enterprise ready," according to the minutes of a July 10 meeting of NASA tech officials obtained by InformationWeek.

    According to the minutes, the decision was made by officials within NASA's ODIN program office. ODIN, or Outsourcing Desktop Initiative For NASA, is a program under which NASA is outsourcing computer supply and support to private-sector companies.

    The meeting minutes indicate that Jeff Stephens, an ODIN acting project manager who also works for defense contractor Lockheed Martin, broke the news that the iPhone won't fly at NASA. Reached Monday at his office in Washington, D.C., Stephens said only that, "I can't comment on that one way or the other."

    Stephens didn't respond to a follow up e-mail. Apple officials didn't return a call Monday seeking comment.

    The meeting minutes viewed by InformationWeek didn't indicate why NASA officials believe the iPhone isn't ready for prime time as a business tool. However, analysts at IT research firm Gartner last month issued a research bulletin on the iPhone that outlined a range of concerns.

    Among them: lack of support from major device management and mobile security software suites, lack of removable batteries, and Apple's exclusive contract with network provider AT&T.

    Still, NASA employees aren't completely out in the cold when it comes to having a hot new PDA. The July 10 meeting minutes indicate that the agency is planning to support the new BlackBerry 8800 from Research In Motion and the Palm Treo 750.
    http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=336265

    Surur
    08-02-2007 05:31 AM
  12. surur's Avatar
    The myth of the superior Iphone built quality - seems to me its all about profit margin...

    - - A tale of 5 iPhones, a cautionary tale.

    Hipnomac 08-01-2007 07:46 PM

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    A tale of 5 iPhones, a cautionary tale.

    1 Attachment(s)
    Let first off start by saying, I absolutely love the iPhone, it is a great phone/ipod, and I find it hard to put it down at times.

    1. I bought my first iPhone on July 17, I was happy as a clam, and went home to set it up, everything went great, by the time I had it all loaded up it had a full charge. I use it for not even two hours, and it just dies on me, and all I was doing was listening to music, and a total talk time of 10 minutes. I went to the apple store the next day and....

    2. They replaced my phone no questions asked. Again, went home, loaded it up, happy again. As I'm pulling it out of my pocket, an exposed piece of the screen lining catches my pocket and pulls out, leaving a gap on the bottom part of the iphone, where dirt and stuff can get through. Back to the Apple store.

    3. They happily replace my phone, after the genius gets a out a magnify glass and inspects the damage. He's says no problem, replaces my iPhone. Go home and I am happy. until.. I get home, and I am out of the bright lights of the apple store and realize on 50% brightness that there are white dots everywhere on my phone. It makes videos and pictures look grainy, and overall I am getting pissed off. Back to the apple store. they tell me I am crazy, say its normal, show me two phones with the same thing, I keep saying, get out of the glare of these studio lights, and go tell me there nothing wrong, the manager comes, huffs and I leave extremely aggravated. I then go home and call apple care, at which point I'm connected directly to a product specialist(due to escaltion), who acknowledges the problem, and happily says he will send me a brand new phone before I have to send mine back, no dealing with a loaner phone or anything. My phone arrives a few days later.

    4. I don't even have to take the packaging off this new iPhone, on start up, there is horrible light eminating from the top, bottom and side. (see picture) I call my rep (who by the way was extremely helpful, curteous, and polite, can't say enough good things about this guy.) send him the picture I've attached, he says no problem sends me a brand new phone. FYI: This screen did not have the dots issue. (yes it was a 5.)

    5. The phone arrives today. I pull out of the box, hoping and praying this phone is good. Open it, there is some light bar problem at the top, but I say f*** it, I just want a phone, I can live with it. No white dot issues. (another 5) So i'm driving to work, and I go to silent the ring, nothing registers, the phone doesnt vibrate, the little icon doesn't come up on the screen. UGGHHGHGHGH, go home to master reset, hard reset on the phone, NOTHING, still doesn't work. Also in my office at home, with the lights off, I notice about 15 stuck pixels (before this i never knew what they looked like)

    So know I am waiting for my rep to call me back, frustrated and disappointed, but I still love the iPhone, no matter how bad its been to me.

    I don't want a new phone this time, because all of the ones I have gotten have been lemons, so I just want mine to go into repair, and be fixed for the problems that I know about it.

    tttexxan 08-01-2007 07:58 PM

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    Thats just crazy...I would demand the apple store to keep replacing until its right...Open your new iphone in store and take to the bathroom with lights off to see if lighting meets your expectations. Call apple customer care while in the store and let them talk out your return

    megfilmworks 08-01-2007 11:45 PM

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    Do you always have this kind of luck?? If so you should warn people about doing business with you!

    Canuck4 08-02-2007 12:22 AM

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    You should play powerball dude

    chr1s60 08-02-2007 12:48 AM

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    That is insane!! I haven't heard of anyone having this much bad luck with the iPhone. Apple should refund at least some of your money for all the trouble you have had to go through. Hopefully your newest phone will get fixed or replaced and you will be able to enjoy the fun of an iPhone for an extended period of time.

    chopper dave 08-02-2007 12:55 AM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Quote:

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Originally Posted by Hipnomac (Post 3990304)

    4. I don't even have to take the packaging off this new iPhone, on start up, there is horrible light eminating from the top, bottom and side. (see picture) I call my rep (who by the way was extremely helpful, curteous, and polite, can't say enough good things about this guy.) send him the picture I've attached, he says no problem sends me a brand new phone. FYI: This screen did not have the dots issue. (yes it was a 5.)
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    That pictures looks just like mine- I really don't understand what is wrong. Did you expect everything to be "light tight?" You should have quit when you got this one.

    Sucks about the other stuff though. I agree about the repair- it is more foolproof to get a new ringer switch than risk getting another dud screen.

    Madame Defarge 08-02-2007 01:38 AM

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    At $500 + the iPhone should be near perfect

    Re: Did you expect everything to be "light tight?"

    Why wouldn't he? He paid $500 + any extra monthly cell phone fees.

    From the very beginning, Apple products have been more expensive than the average; the trade-off being, that the quality was unmatched, and Apple users have come to expect the best.

    As a design professional, I love both the look and the superior operating systems, plus the cutting edge technology. But so many problems have been reported with the iPhone, that I'm beginning to wonder what's happening with Apple.

    If it were me, I would return the iPhone for a refund and wait for the next generation. No one should have to put up with a product that has so many issues, especially when they'll be stuck with it (and AT&T) for 2 years!
    http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=336480

    Surur
    08-02-2007 05:38 AM
  13. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    it's no surprise to me that big business or government cannot or will not support iPhone at this time. They use mainly Exchange, BB servers and maybe Lotus too, which I don't think iPhone supports yet.
    08-02-2007 05:41 AM
  14. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    Maybe they were giving that guy in the other post refurbs/returns.
    08-02-2007 05:44 AM
  15. surur's Avatar
    Maybe they were giving that guy in the other post refurbs/returns.
    That would explain a lot.

    Surur
    08-02-2007 06:27 AM
  16. oalvarez's Avatar
    I'll say it again. Had Jobs not slyly placed this in the same class as smartphones, this might not have happened. WM is clearly a mobile BUSINESS OS, the OSX on the iPhone is more of a MULTI-MEDIA OS. Many people on here are still comparing the iPhone to a true business device, I've fallen into that trap myself. But they might not have done so had the keynote not shown the Treo, BB Pearl and E62 for a comparison.
    .
    Again with the keynote!!!!!

    who is comparing the iPhone to a true business device? i've participated in this thread and really don't find that to be the case. i think it's more the opposite actually. but the keynote comment is really getting a bit long in the tooth.
    08-02-2007 07:52 AM
  17. surur's Avatar
    Again with the keynote!!!!!

    who is comparing the iPhone to a true business device?
    Who every applied to use the iPhone at NASA?

    Surur
    08-02-2007 08:21 AM
  18. AnteL0pe's Avatar
    I'll say it again. Had Jobs not slyly placed this in the same class as smartphones, this might not have happened. WM is clearly a mobile BUSINESS OS, the OSX on the iPhone is more of a MULTI-MEDIA OS. Many people on here are still comparing the iPhone to a true business device, I've fallen into that trap myself. But they might not have done so had the keynote not shown the Treo, BB Pearl and E62 for a comparison.
    He never put them in that class. The pics youve seen from the keynote are where he was comparing the screen real estate and the keyboards. Nothing else. Jobs never said this was going to be the next big business phone, it isnt in that class.

    Now if you try to use a multi-media phone to get some serious work done, you MAY not be able to, depending on what you need to do. That's why people keep using the term "capable", they're actually comparing iPhone to a true business-featured smartphone.
    Capable is a personal definition. If you need OTA address book, 3G with tethering, and the ability to write word docs then the iPhone isnt capable. If you need a big bright screen, the best mobile browser in the world, an iPod, easy video playback, massive storage and an easy, intuitive and stable OS then any WM device isnt capable. It all depends what you needs are.

    I think that is what just about everyone, except surur, is saying here. The iPhone is a thing of perfection for some, not at all usable for others.
    08-02-2007 08:50 AM
  19. surur's Avatar
    He never put them in that class. The pics youve seen from the keynote are where he was comparing the screen real estate and the keyboards. Nothing else. Jobs never said this was going to be the next big business phone, it isnt in that class.



    Capable is a personal definition. If you need OTA address book, 3G with tethering, and the ability to write word docs then the iPhone isnt capable. If you need a big bright screen, the best mobile browser in the world, an iPod, easy video playback, massive storage and an easy, intuitive and stable OS then any WM device isnt capable. It all depends what you needs are.
    Other open devices can add browsers, massive storage and even change their UI easily. The iPhone cant add 3G.

    Surur
    08-02-2007 09:32 AM
  20. AnteL0pe's Avatar
    Thanks for proving my point. Nothing here relating to business. Its all about media.

    Other open devices can add browsers, massive storage and even change their UI easily. The iPhone cant add 3G.

    Surur
    You can add crappy browsers that cant compete with Safari. You can add storage, thankfully I don't have to. You can change the UI, but it still isnt going to be as nice as OS X IMHO. Your opinion of the WM UI is probably different than mine, but we have already established that you place very little value on appearance.
    08-02-2007 09:40 AM
  21. surur's Avatar
    Thanks for proving my point. Nothing here relating to business. Its all about media.
    They are all smartphones. There are many other media phones Apple could have used to compare it with e.g. the Upstage.

    You can add crappy browsers that cant compete with Safari.
    Opinion

    You can change the UI, but it still isnt going to be as nice as OS X IMHO.
    I think if it was changed to an exact clone you will not be satisfied.

    Surur
    08-02-2007 10:07 AM
  22. oalvarez's Avatar
    Other open devices can add browsers, massive storage and even change their UI easily. The iPhone cant add 3G.

    Surur

    does the HTC Touch offer 3G?
    08-02-2007 10:46 AM
  23. whmurray's Avatar
    .....Out of curiosity, over Edge how long does it take to load the NY Times Home page and then to click/load the link to the story?
    All that I can tell you with certainty is that it is faster than on Blazer. E-mail is also faster than Snappermail which is faster on my 650 than it was on my 600.
    08-02-2007 10:54 AM
  24. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    Again with the keynote!!!!!

    who is comparing the iPhone to a true business device? i've participated in this thread and really don't find that to be the case. i think it's more the opposite actually. but the keynote comment is really getting a bit long in the tooth.
    And still completely valid since the video exists to prove my point!! If you put up smartphones then imply the iPhone is better than them, just what exactly are you doing if not comparing??? Who am I going to believe, YOU or my eyes??!!
    08-02-2007 10:54 AM
  25. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    Thanks for proving my point. Nothing here relating to business. Its all about media.
    Who put together that chart? If it was Apple, they're doing it again! If not, someone else somehow thinks the iPhone is a business phone. I think this comparison may be hard to get away from.
    08-02-2007 11:00 AM
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