1. mobileman's Avatar
    So Palm OS would qualify too? And Symbian? (I think that can have custom skins, someone please correct)

    So basically every smartphone in the world is a lemon? (Except the iPhone, of course).
    No, those devices dont need the shell replacement to make their OS usable. Optional only. Notice how Palm OS, Symbian, blackberry, and now the iPhone do not have a start menu.
    07-31-2007 11:45 AM
  2. mobileman's Avatar
    If you read that person's posts, they had some legit reasons. Why not address those, rather than surur's post.

    I sure don't have the need to send 700 SMS messages at once (ex. groups), but some people do. And I guess the iPhone's SMS client does not have that yet. Dealbreaker for me? No, but it was for someone.
    If you read my posts at all, thats all I have been saying. What a problem is for somebody might be a non-issue for others. For example, animated .gifs and the ability to spell krsnet is a non-issue.

    Most of the issues this guy posted about (is listening to to much music an issue?), or not issues to me.

    Maybe the first software update (coming soon) will improve this guys problem....
    http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...e_shortly.html
    07-31-2007 11:49 AM
  3. mikec#IM's Avatar
    No, those devices dont need the shell replacement to make their OS usable. Optional only. Notice how Palm OS, Symbian, blackberry, and now the iPhone do not have a start menu.
    So now the parameters change....

    I would disagree. Palm OS needs one (my "needs"). It was not optional.

    And I use WM5 w/o a skin, and it's just fine for my needs. It is very useable out of the box.

    Start menu is irrelevant. They have a home button. Close enough (but not the same).
    07-31-2007 11:55 AM
  4. surur's Avatar
    No, those devices dont need the shell replacement to make their OS usable. Optional only. Notice how Palm OS, Symbian, blackberry, and now the iPhone do not have a start menu.
    Funny, I can USE my device perfectly fine, and do things you cant do on an iPhone, completely without a shell replacement. Maybe it just an option, like other smartphone users (Symbian, palmOS and Linux) have always had, vs being stuck in Steve Jobs's One Right Way.

    Surur
    07-31-2007 11:55 AM
  5. mobileman's Avatar
    So now the parameters change....

    I would disagree. Palm OS needs one (my "needs"). It was not optional.

    And I use WM5 w/o a skin, and it's just fine for my needs. It is very useable out of the box.

    Start menu is irrelevant. They have a home button. Close enough (but not the same).
    Sounds good, Im glad your happy. In my case I will never use a phone with a start menu ever again.
    07-31-2007 11:59 AM
  6. mobileman's Avatar
    Funny, I can USE my device perfectly fine, and do things you cant do on an iPhone, completely without a shell replacement. Maybe it just an option, like other smartphone users (Symbian, palmOS and Linux) have always had, vs being stuck in Steve Jobs's One Right Way.

    Surur
    So holding up a small laptop device to your ear to make a phone call is using your device "perfectly fine"
    07-31-2007 12:00 PM
  7. mikec#IM's Avatar
    So holding up a small laptop device to your ear to make a phone call is using your device "perfectly fine"
    Who holds phones to their ears anymore? That's sooooo 2003.
    It's all Bluegoof headset, baby! :-)
    07-31-2007 12:15 PM
  8. surur's Avatar
    So holding up a small laptop device to your ear to make a phone call is using your device "perfectly fine"
    You realize the iPhone is not exactly the smallest phone either, dont you?

    Surur
    07-31-2007 12:53 PM
  9. Malatesta's Avatar
    Looks like NY is hating on the iPhone too. When will they stop looking out for the consumer?

    "State Asks Apple To Reduce iPhone Repair Costs"

    That's why New Yorks Consumer Protection Board issued a letter to Apple's CEO Monday asking for the iPhone to be a little more consumer-friendly.

    The board says the first problem is you have to send the phone away to replace the battery and it costs $79.

    The CPB says consumers should be able to replace the battery themselves.

    The board is also speaking out against the $29 fee that's charged for a temporary replacement phone, as well as the 14 day trial period that's offered.

    Finally, the board recommends that Apple drop the 10% restocking fee that's charged when someone returns an iPhone.
    07-31-2007 01:00 PM
  10. mobileman's Avatar
    Looks like NY is hating on the iPhone too. When will they stop looking out for the consumer?

    "State Asks Apple To Reduce iPhone Repair Costs"
    I hope they do reduce the costs of replacing the battery. Still love the iPhone though.
    07-31-2007 01:06 PM
  11. mobileman's Avatar
    You realize the iPhone is not exactly the smallest phone either, dont you?

    Surur

    You do realize the iPhone is tiny next to the HTC Universal though? How do you make calls on that thing?
    07-31-2007 01:07 PM
  12. mikec#IM's Avatar
    Looks like NY is hating on the iPhone too. When will they stop looking out for the consumer?

    "State Asks Apple To Reduce iPhone Repair Costs"
    No offense to my NY breathern, but FNY.

    When they drop the slush fund tax (aka mortagage tax) of 3/4 of a point to nearly 2 point, not tax deductible - this is on top of the loan itself) on every mortagage and refinance, then they can complain to Apple.

    I agree Apple should have a replaceable battery, and they cost is high...but to have the state/gov't try to tell them what to do, while they rape the homeowners, is hollow.
    07-31-2007 01:08 PM
  13. AnteL0pe's Avatar
    The world does not revolve around you and your requirements. All devices are not equally capable. This is a fact. Why you would even argue this is beyond me.
    Remember these words and then reread your next statement to me. I'm not saying my requirements are the only ones, in fact this is what you are saying.

    I never said I dont want those things too. However, I ALSO want open access to the file system, 3rd party apps, 3G, open push e-mail and options and features not provided by the iPhone. Thats why my requirements are higher, and yours are... lower.
    How is this different than me requiring a big bright screen, a full browser, style, simplicity, a stable OS and everything else the iPhone has over WM devices and wanting open access to the file system, 3rd party apps, 3G? By your logic that makes my requirements higher. In fact your logic is that anything surur requires takes precedence over anyone elses priorities. I think i got your "simple equation" all figured out.
    07-31-2007 01:12 PM
  14. surur's Avatar
    Wow! 3000 reasons why the iPhone sucks.

    ATT + iPhone int'l. roaming data horror story: $3K bill

    BoingBoing reader Dave Stolte says,
    I have a caveat emptor to top them all. I purchased an iPhone on opening day to use in lieu of a cumbersome laptop while traveling in Ireland and England for two weeks in early July. AT&T promises "easy, affordable, and convenient plans" in their advertising... turns out I got two out of three.
    On the way to the airport, I activated the per-use international roaming data plan - the only one offered to me. The rep quoted me $.005 per KB but did not disclose what that would translate to in layman's language (i.e., X amount per e-mail, X amount per web page, etc.). I'm a web developer as part of my career and I couldn't even tell you how many KB the average web page is, no less a text message to my son, an e-mail with a photo to my mother, or a quick check of Google Maps. That's part one of the trap. However, I now pay $40 per month for unlimited data usage on the iPhone, so really -- how much could it be? $100 at the most, right?

    Keep reading.

    As we know, the iPhone can't be unlocked to use a European provider's SIM card for more reasonable rates while traveling. There's part two of the trap.

    To be safe, I went online to My Account at AT&T a couple days into the trip and again a week later and was told "usage data is currently unavailable"... and that's part three. I had no way of knowing specific usage data until I received my bill over the last weekend.

    A bill for $3000.


    Two weeks of travel with sporadic AT&T EDGE network usage off and on mixed with wifi when available... $3000.

    Doing some research, I learned this morning that AT&T offers unlimited international data usage at $70 per month to its Blackberry customers.

    Here's my bottom line: I want this same usage plan to be made available to iPhone customers and to be applied retroactively to my account.

    Billing phone reps offered me a $400 "courtesy credit" on the $3000 charge if I would agree to sign up for a $300 per year international data plan with a max of 20MB per month. (I'm not planning any international travel for a while anyway, but 20MB would be burned in a day or two of average use - they must be kidding.) I have until August 14th to resolve this or all my family's phones (including my wife's business line) get disconnected. Obviously, there's no way I can pay $3000 for something so egregiously wrong.

    I'm writing you in the hope that the exposure of my story might force AT&T's hand in admitting they have an inadequate solution in place for international iPhone users, that they've discriminated against the iPhone in favor of the Blackberry, that they failed to adequately disclose the exorbitant nature of their rate plan, that they kept me in the dark about my usage specifics until it was too late to modify them, and that by disallowing unlocking to use a European provider's SIM with more reasonable rates, I was trapped without knowing it until that $3000 "gotcha" came knocking at my door.

    Thanks for your time, and please do not hesitate to contact me (dave@3rdeyedesign.com) with any further questions.
    http://www.boingboing.net/2007/07/31...intl_roam.html

    Surur
    07-31-2007 01:33 PM
  15. surur's Avatar
    How is this different than me requiring a big bright screen, a full browser, style, simplicity, a stable OS and everything else the iPhone has over WM devices and wanting open access to the file system, 3rd party apps, 3G? By your logic that makes my requirements higher. In fact your logic is that anything surur requires takes precedence over anyone elses priorities. I think i got your "simple equation" all figured out.
    If you are happy with the iPhone those are clearly not your requirements.

    Surur
    07-31-2007 01:38 PM
  16. AnteL0pe's Avatar
    If you are happy with the iPhone those are clearly not your requirements.

    Surur
    Care to explain?
    07-31-2007 01:54 PM
  17. mikec#IM's Avatar
    Wow! 3000 reasons why the iPhone sucks.


    http://www.boingboing.net/2007/07/31...intl_roam.html

    Surur
    Well, these stories pop up every so often. I say tough titty - know what you are getting before you sign up.

    For all the talk about how back-asward the US is when it comes to cell phones, the one area that shine is the relatively cheap and unlimited data.

    My understand (and correct accordingly), is that in Euroland, Cannuckville and other places, data is expensive.
    07-31-2007 02:04 PM
  18. surur's Avatar
    Care to explain?
    Requirements is what the device is supposed to have. According to wikipedia

    In engineering, a requirement is a singular documented need of what a particular product or service should be or do. It is most commonly used in a formal sense in systems engineering or software engineering. It is a statement that identifies a necessary attribute, capability, characteristic, or quality of a system in order for it to have value and utility to a user.
    The iPhone does not have "open access to the file system, 3rd party apps, 3G" so these are clearly not your requirements.

    This isn't wonderland, and words dont mean what you chose them to mean.

    Surur
    07-31-2007 02:08 PM
  19. surur's Avatar
    Well, these stories pop up every so often. I say tough titty - know what you are getting before you sign up.

    For all the talk about how back-asward the US is when it comes to cell phones, the one area that shine is the relatively cheap and unlimited data.

    My understand (and correct accordingly), is that in Euroland, Cannuckville and other places, data is expensive.
    Roaming data is even more expensive, and as stated earlier the iPhone makes it very difficult to control your spending. You cant change the sim to a local one, you cant use WIFI without putting on edge, pop e-mail always gets downloaded in full, including attachments, visual voice mail uses data, you cant switch pictures of in the browser etc.

    No wonder AT&T wanted the device.

    Surur
    07-31-2007 02:12 PM
  20. mikec#IM's Avatar
    Requirements is what the device is supposed to have. According to wikipedia



    The iPhone does not have "open access to the file system, 3rd party apps, 3G" so these are clearly not your requirements.

    This isn't wonderland, and words dont mean what you chose them to mean.

    Surur
    Thank you. We are too loose with our use of words - common definitions help.

    "I don't need it" means "I don't require it". Hence, "requirement".
    07-31-2007 02:29 PM
  21. mikec#IM's Avatar
    Roaming data is even more expensive, and as stated earlier the iPhone makes it very difficult to control your spending. You cant change the sim to a local one, you cant use WIFI without putting on edge, pop e-mail always gets downloaded in full, including attachments, visual voice mail uses data, you cant switch pictures of in the browser etc.

    No wonder AT&T wanted the device.

    Surur
    POP email is only full download (not headers only?) Is that true? (I'm sure someone who is a heavy iPhone email user can correct...)
    07-31-2007 02:31 PM
  22. braj's Avatar
    Roaming data is even more expensive, and as stated earlier the iPhone makes it very difficult to control your spending. You cant change the sim to a local one, you cant use WIFI without putting on edge, pop e-mail always gets downloaded in full, including attachments, visual voice mail uses data, you cant switch pictures of in the browser etc.

    No wonder AT&T wanted the device.

    Surur
    Yep, that definitely seems that it was designed with the carrier in mind to use more data, not for the customer's best interests. In the US though most if not all on an iPhone will be on unlimited data and in network, and I'd hope people can expense their business costs when roaming. Going on vacation out of network though could be a real expensive proposition.

    Of course we also know why there isn't wifi on a Treo yet so it isn't like Apple is unique in making these sorts of compromizes. The game is rigged against the consumer no matter what vendor or carrier you choose (at least in the US).
    07-31-2007 02:32 PM
  23. surur's Avatar
    POP email is only full download (not headers only?) Is that true? (I'm sure someone who is a heavy iPhone email user can correct...)
    AFAIK, maybe our iPhone users can confirm. Imagine if some-one sent you a video clip over e-mail while you are on Edge - no phone calls for the next hour.

    Surur
    07-31-2007 02:34 PM
  24. surur's Avatar
    Of course we also know why there isn't wifi on a Treo yet so it isn't like Apple is unique in making these sorts of compromizes. The game is rigged against the consumer no matter what vendor or carrier you choose (at least in the US).
    I'm not sure about that. Many other smartphones have WIFI.

    Surur
    07-31-2007 02:36 PM
  25. surur's Avatar
    More built quality issues?

    - My button is driving me INSANE!

    seaofcrap 07-31-2007 09:15

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    My button is driving me INSANE!

    My button is driving me insane. It started wiggling a few days ago and now it's very flimsy. Not to the point it'll fall off or anything, but just flimsy when you try to press it. It's not a big deal and obviously I won't be exchanging this phone for it or anything, but annoying! Otherwise this iPhone is perfecto (I had to get a defective one exchanged because of the battery, so I know when something is amiss). Love the iPhone! (just needed to vent)

    tonyayo 07-31-2007 09:25

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    dude return it.

    soulweaponry 07-31-2007 10:06

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    I second that. If this is the phone you're gonna have for the next couple yrs, you need it in perfect working condition. I wouldn't want to go that long thinking "i have a broken iphone, it feels weird"

    wakka092 07-31-2007 17:41

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    Which button? Volume, home, ringer/silent switch..?

    tawong 07-31-2007 17:47

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    Anybody think the home button will fail at some point hopefully before the 1 yr warranty? I'm saying this because it's the button most used.

    mcdj 07-31-2007 18:07

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I returned mine for a loose button the week it came out. It drove me nuts too.


    rushco 07-31-2007 19:01

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The only button and Steve Jobs manages to screw it up.
    http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=1212810

    Surur
    07-31-2007 02:46 PM
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