1. cmaier's Avatar
    If it's the same opera that i ran on my treo, it was pretty awful compared to safari.
    07-30-2007 08:23 PM
  2. cmaier's Avatar
    Oalvarez, I believe we have established that iPhone users in general demand very little, so if you did not care about the other deficiencies I would hardly expect you to care about this. I however, would have noticed, as I visit that site regularly, and they have perfected animated gif's to an art form.

    Surur

    Just because iphone users value DIFFERENT things than you happen to does not mean they "demand very little." My iphone does a lot of things for me that my treo could not, and can do a lot of things, the combination of which no other phone can. These things may not seem very valuable to you, but they are valuable to me. I expect quite a lot from my electronic devices in general. I build my own PC's using microprocessors that I, myself, designed. I defined part of the x86-64 instruction set and worked (indirectly) with Microsoft on windows 64. I write my own software when I can't find what I need, and can code in almost any programming language currently in use. I am by no means a newbie. I'd ask you to accept that not all users of iphone are saps with very low expectations; many of us are sophisticated users with high expectations but different requirement sets than you, and many of us find that the iphone meets our expectations.
    07-30-2007 08:29 PM
  3. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    I disagree. Its large, the keyboard is awkward, the os is painfully slow, and the screen is tiny.
    Works fine for me.
    07-30-2007 08:38 PM
  4. mobileman's Avatar
    Just because iphone users value DIFFERENT things than you happen to does not mean they "demand very little." My iphone does a lot of things for me that my treo could not, and can do a lot of things, the combination of which no other phone can.
    Agreed. Something that is totally lost on the trifecta (Surur, Mally, MikeC).
    07-30-2007 08:38 PM
  5. surur's Avatar
    which websites? the websites i visit function as they should (cnn, cbs marketwatch, espn..whatever). so i suppose for me it's not a concern until i try and visit a website as you describe. Surur on the other hand apparently likes to visit websites with "animated gifs." interesting to say the least.

    not important to me for the moment.
    Its funny, but most of those sites use flash extensively, implying that even with an iPhone you are getting far from a full experience. I'm sure that does not concern you either.

    Surur
    07-30-2007 08:41 PM
  6. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    Its so pathetic when somebody tries to explain why his posts are more important than yours. Mally, you need to get over yourself. These arn't your message boards. Though you may have thousands of posts, your not special.



    I feel sorry for anybody that has wasted thousands of posts on a device like the 700wx.
    Now what's wrong with the 700wx, except maybe it's a bit too bulky?
    07-30-2007 08:43 PM
  7. surur's Avatar
    Just because iphone users value DIFFERENT things than you happen to does not mean they "demand very little." My iphone does a lot of things for me that my treo could not, and can do a lot of things, the combination of which no other phone can. These things may not seem very valuable to you, but they are valuable to me. I expect quite a lot from my electronic devices in general. I build my own PC's using microprocessors that I, myself, designed. I defined part of the x86-64 instruction set and worked (indirectly) with Microsoft on windows 64. I write my own software when I can't find what I need, and can code in almost any programming language currently in use. I am by no means a newbie. I'd ask you to accept that not all users of iphone are saps with very low expectations; many of us are sophisticated users with high expectations but different requirement sets than you, and many of us find that the iphone meets our expectations.
    I'm sure your contribution to society deserves a lot of respect, but if you value AJAX and coverflow over cut and paste and 3rd party apps I can not help but think your expectations are very low. Being impressed by shiny things is not a value I admire.

    Surur
    07-30-2007 08:46 PM
  8. mobileman's Avatar
    Now what's wrong with the 700wx, except maybe it's a bit too bulky?
    Ok, here ya go.....

    1. It is a complete and utter waste to have a phone with a 240x240 screen that has a top and a bottom toolbar. Atleast in Pocket Explorer there is a full screen mode. Why is there not one for the rest of the apps and screens?

    2. You said it, very bulky.

    3. No integrated SMS threading (unless this has been added recently). Hacking the phone with another phones version of threaded sms is not an option for our corporate WM users.

    4. I'm not a fan of a start menu on a phone.
    07-30-2007 08:48 PM
  9. mobileman's Avatar
    I'm sure your contribution to society deserves a lot of respect, but if you value AJAX and coverflow over cut and paste and 3rd party apps I can not help but think your expectations are very low. Being impressed by shiny things is not a value I admire.

    Surur

    I just dont get posts like this. Maybe he values using the best internet browser on any phone on the market. Maybe he values the best portable music experience on a cellphone. Maybe he values the awesome UI.

    Surur, can it possible be that he might have different needs and likes than you?
    07-30-2007 08:56 PM
  10. cmaier's Avatar
    You are being intentionally insulting. I value:

    - being able to read and navigate pdfs and word documents as well as or better than I can on my work desktop machine
    - being able to count on my phone not crashing or locking up at inconvenient times (or, as with my treo 650, near constantly)
    - being able to browse nearly every website I need to browse and seeing it rendered in a way that is actually useful rather than painful (especially since more and more websites now rely on ajax)
    - being able to retrieve imap email from my own mailserver
    - being able to write my own working applications for my device
    - being able to carry on multiple SMS conversations simultaneously
    - being able to access google talk on occasion
    - being able to take occasional snapshots that actually look reasonable
    - being able to sync with all my outlook contact and calendar data

    Now, some of these things can be done on other devices, and some can be done better on other devices (heck bullet by bullet you can probably find a device that's better for any one of those), but I've yet to see a single device that does all of these in combination as well as iphone, and which does so while still "looking pretty" and being a joy to actually use.

    Your obsession with 3rd party apps (i want them too) is misplaced when you cite it in the abstract. 3rd party apps are only valuable in that they provide you the ability to do things you need to do that you otherwise couldn't. Webapps happen to suit my needs. I'd still like native apps for various reasons, but I'm happy. My expectations are not low. The damned phone does what I need it to do.

    Your refusal to accept that someone could have different priorities than you is simply moronic, and eliminates any shred of credibility you might otherwise have.

    I have frequently (on this thread and others) acknowledged problems, even when they aren't of concern to me, as being something that people with different values than my own might be affected by. You are incapable of doing the same, and thus have no credibility with me (I'm sure you're heartbroken).

    Yes, the iphone is shiny. But it's possible to be both shiny AND useful, and the iphone represents that combination for me because it does what I need it to do. When you can get your WM devices to instantly bring up a pdf on the screen so i can actually read the entire page at once, and so i can effortlessly and instantaneously page and zoom with as little trouble as I can on my iphone, then WM might become the phone for me.
    07-30-2007 09:00 PM
  11. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    Ok, here ya go.....

    1. It is a complete and utter waste to have a phone with a 240x240 screen that has a top and a bottom toolbar. Atleast in Pocket Explorer there is a full screen mode. Why is there not one for the rest of the apps and screens?

    2. You said it, very bulky.

    3. No integrated SMS threading (unless this has been added recently). Hacking the phone with another phones version of threaded sms is not an option for our corporate WM users.

    4. I'm not a fan of a start menu on a phone.
    I agree the screen real estate is small.

    No big deal about a start menu, especially if you installed a lot of apps. You don't want them to all show on the first page, do you? The screen will be even more cluttered if all the apps show.

    And I thought Palm included threaded SMS, or was that only on the 750?

    I don't think the 700wx is that horrible. It may need pizzaz like the iPhone, but it's not that bad.
    07-30-2007 09:18 PM
  12. oalvarez's Avatar
    Its funny, but most of those sites use flash extensively, implying that even with an iPhone you are getting far from a full experience. I'm sure that does not concern you either.

    Surur
    far from full experience? i need to be able to read the information, the text, that is important to me. being able to watch and see animated gifs like you do, isn't.

    keep trying!
    07-30-2007 09:33 PM
  13. Malatesta's Avatar
    I agree the screen real estate is small.

    No big deal about a start menu, especially if you installed a lot of apps. You don't want them to all show on the first page, do you? The screen will be even more cluttered if all the apps show.

    And I thought Palm included threaded SMS, or was that only on the 750?

    I don't think the 700wx is that horrible. It may need pizzaz like the iPhone, but it's not that bad.
    Threaded SMS is only on the Windows 750 (officially).

    The 240x240 is not a big deal, it's more about font and space allocation. You actually get the same amount of information on a 240x240 as a POS 320x320 (e.g. 4-6 emails in your inbox on WM, depending on size of the font you chose; 10-18 lines of text visible on screen, etc.).

    The best alternative to a typical WM Start Menu would be SPB Mobile Shell:


    You can also easily make a clean, simple & imo, elegant Today Screen
    :
    07-30-2007 09:34 PM
  14. cmaier's Avatar
    far from full experience? i need to be able to read the information, the text, that is important to me. being able to watch and see animated gifs like you do, isn't.

    keep trying!
    that Klingon renders fine btw
    07-30-2007 09:42 PM
  15. oalvarez's Avatar
    The 240x240 is not a big deal, it's more about font and space allocation.
    interesting. 240x240 is not a big deal, why? all i've heard about it is negative (slow to adopt programs for it, browsing on PIE is painful, limited screen real estate). let me guess, you own a WM Treo?
    07-30-2007 09:47 PM
  16. mobileman's Avatar
    Threaded SMS is only on the Windows 750 (officially).

    The 240x240 is not a big deal, it's more about font and space allocation. You actually get the same amount of information on a 240x240 as a POS 320x320 (e.g. 4-6 emails in your inbox on WM, depending on size of the font you chose; 10-18 lines of text visible on screen, etc.).

    The best alternative to a typical WM Start Menu would be SPB Mobile Shell:


    You can also easily make a clean, simple & imo, elegant Today Screen
    :
    240x240 is a big deal. Especially after your eyes get used to the full screen goodness of the iPhone (or any other hi-rez device).

    Also, for you Mal. hacking your treo might be pretty easy. But I support hundreds of Windows Mobile users. I do not have the time or patience to play around with registry hacks, or want to purchase 3rd party apps to get the screen to be semi usable on every WM device that comes in.

    When a user requests a new cellphone at my company, and they choose Windows Mobile, I can usually tell ahead of time if the person is technical enough to be able to use the device. I would say half the time, these people request an exchange for a blackberry device within a few months. Its just far easier for non techies to use.
    07-30-2007 09:47 PM
  17. oalvarez's Avatar
    that Klingon renders fine btw
    exactly. he visits that site often (as he says). different strokes for different folks i suppose.
    07-30-2007 09:49 PM
  18. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    interesting. 240x240 is not a big deal, why? all i've heard about it is negative (slow to adopt programs for it, browsing on PIE is painful, limited screen real estate). let me guess, you own a WM Treo?
    You owned the 700w, right? 700wx is the same phone except for a brighter screen and more memory.
    07-30-2007 09:54 PM
  19. mobileman's Avatar
    Mal. proved my point when he claims 240x240 isn't a big deal. For me any device with resolution that low isn't even in consideration. Yet, he has problems with many things about the iPhone that I simply do not care about. Everybody has different needs.
    07-30-2007 09:55 PM
  20. oalvarez's Avatar
    You owned the 700w, right? 700wx is the same phone except for a brighter screen and more memory.
    i owned and used both the 700w and 700wx (sprint). i didn't have much of a problem with the WX outside of the poor coverage/reception I receive with Sprint. as for the 700w, in the end it was a complete and utter joke of a device.
    07-30-2007 09:58 PM
  21. oalvarez's Avatar
    Mal. proved my point when he claims 240x240 isn't a big deal. For me any device with resolution that low isn't even in consideration. Yet, he has problems with many things about the iPhone that I simply do not care about. Everybody has different needs.
    look at those images he provided. they're quite telling as well.
    07-30-2007 09:59 PM
  22. cmaier's Avatar
    spb makes some nice stuff, though. But, yeah, it's a little bit of making lemonade out of lemons.
    07-30-2007 10:06 PM
  23. Malatesta's Avatar
    interesting. 240x240 is not a big deal, why? all i've heard about it is negative (slow to adopt programs for it, browsing on PIE is painful, limited screen real estate). let me guess, you own a WM Treo?
    Really? I think in Jan 2006 when the WM Treo was first introduced this would have been the case, but honestly there is not a single program I cannot run on a WM Treo due to it's resolution. Sure it could be better, but technology can always be improved upon. A 320x320 WM Treo should be very nice (800w).

    Browsing is very easy. Here are a few shots of the "web" on the Treo:




    Other apps also look just fine, imo:


    07-30-2007 10:11 PM
  24. Denny Crane's Avatar
    I just dont get posts like this. Maybe he values using the best internet browser on any phone on the market. Maybe he values the best portable music experience on a cellphone. Maybe he values the awesome UI.

    Surur, can it possible be that he might have different needs and likes than you?
    It's almost like Surur takes it personally that some folks like the iPhone. He needs help.
    07-30-2007 10:15 PM
  25. Denny Crane's Avatar
    You are being intentionally insulting. I value:

    - being able to read and navigate pdfs and word documents as well as or better than I can on my work desktop machine
    - being able to count on my phone not crashing or locking up at inconvenient times (or, as with my treo 650, near constantly)
    - being able to browse nearly every website I need to browse and seeing it rendered in a way that is actually useful rather than painful (especially since more and more websites now rely on ajax)
    - being able to retrieve imap email from my own mailserver
    - being able to write my own working applications for my device
    - being able to carry on multiple SMS conversations simultaneously
    - being able to access google talk on occasion
    - being able to take occasional snapshots that actually look reasonable
    - being able to sync with all my outlook contact and calendar data

    Now, some of these things can be done on other devices, and some can be done better on other devices (heck bullet by bullet you can probably find a device that's better for any one of those), but I've yet to see a single device that does all of these in combination as well as iphone, and which does so while still "looking pretty" and being a joy to actually use.

    Your obsession with 3rd party apps (i want them too) is misplaced when you cite it in the abstract. 3rd party apps are only valuable in that they provide you the ability to do things you need to do that you otherwise couldn't. Webapps happen to suit my needs. I'd still like native apps for various reasons, but I'm happy. My expectations are not low. The damned phone does what I need it to do.

    Your refusal to accept that someone could have different priorities than you is simply moronic, and eliminates any shred of credibility you might otherwise have.

    I have frequently (on this thread and others) acknowledged problems, even when they aren't of concern to me, as being something that people with different values than my own might be affected by. You are incapable of doing the same, and thus have no credibility with me (I'm sure you're heartbroken).

    Yes, the iphone is shiny. But it's possible to be both shiny AND useful, and the iphone represents that combination for me because it does what I need it to do. When you can get your WM devices to instantly bring up a pdf on the screen so i can actually read the entire page at once, and so i can effortlessly and instantaneously page and zoom with as little trouble as I can on my iphone, then WM might become the phone for me.

    ^^^^ What he said^^^^^^^
    07-30-2007 10:17 PM
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