1. surur's Avatar
    So, iPhone users find Web apps... suck?

    - Web Apps SUCK
    pwolfe 07-17-2007 09:04 AM

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    Web Apps SUCK

    I am starting to really lose my patience with how slow applications load and the general lack of good software for my iphone. I want to let apple know that I am mad as hell about their choice to exclude 3rd party developers. Where is the best place for me to have my voice heard on this matter? I'm thinking an online petition needs to be made. Any suggestions?

    plumbingandtech 07-17-2007 09:23 AM

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    Quote:

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    Originally Posted by pwolfe (Post 3928733)
    I am starting to really lose my patience with how slow applications load and the general lack of good software for my iphone. Where is the best place for me to have my voice heard on this matter? I'm thinking an online petition needs to be made. Any suggestions?
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    http://www.apple.com/contact/

    maybe somewhere here.



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    I want to let apple know that I am mad as hell about their choice to exclude 3rd party developers.
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    Choice?

    You don't think it _could be_ that they simply did not have the time or resources to release a full api on day 1?

    pwolfe 07-17-2007 09:27 AM

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    Quote:

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    Originally Posted by plumbingandtech (Post 3928803)
    http://www.apple.com/contact/

    maybe somewhere here.




    Choice?

    You don't think it _could be_ that they simply did not have the time or resources release a full api on day 1?
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    I understand that I am an early adopter and that I will have to be patient for some of the features I wish I could have, but I was under the impression that Apple's stance was NO 3rd party apps, not 3rd party apps when we are finished with the API.

    plumbingandtech 07-17-2007 09:32 AM

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    Quote:

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    Originally Posted by pwolfe (Post 3928814)
    I understand that I am an early adopter and that I will have to be patient for some of the features I wish I could have, but I was under the impression that Apple's stance was NO 3rd party apps, not 3rd party apps when we are finished with the API.
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    Currently that is the stance.

    But the overwheleming desire by users and developers, (and this is just my opinion.) is that apple will switch gears and release a full api.

    I think the key here is that apple will announce that apps must be be sent thru some form of testing and approval process to get the "works fine with iphone" label on it.

    And since this testing will cost some $$$ this will help to keep us out of the palm 3rd party problems of instablity.

    Cleverboy 07-17-2007 09:38 AM

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    We're only a couple of weeks in. I strongly believe quite a number of people will rethink their opinion of web apps when platforms for them begin to become more mature and ubiquitous. If I had a team of programmers at my beck and call I'd change some minds today... As it stands, I can only say "have some patience".

    ~ CB

    plumbingandtech 07-17-2007 09:54 AM

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    Quote:

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    Originally Posted by Cleverboy (Post 3928846)
    We're only a couple of weeks in. I strongly believe quite a number of people will rethink their opinion of web apps when platforms for them begin to become more mature and ubiquitous. If I had a team of programmers at my beck and call I'd change some minds today... As it stands, I can only say "have some patience".

    ~ CB
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    Meh for me though. I agree witht he OP though. For a lot of stuff they just suck and the tech just won't get there anytime soon.

    For browsing and searching etc.. they are fine. But for other stuff (like even a grocercy list.) they blow for me.. since everytime i go into my grocery store I lose my edge signal.

    Ummm eggs.. yah and milk.. i think.

    Tommyg117 07-17-2007 09:57 AM

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    I end up just not using them because they are so slow. It's like a feature that isn't even there. We better get a software update with some new features

    michelle21 07-17-2007 11:28 AM

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    Quote:

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    Originally Posted by pwolfe (Post 3928733)
    I am starting to really lose my patience with how slow applications load and the general lack of good software for my iphone. I want to let apple know that I am mad as hell about their choice to exclude 3rd party developers. Where is the best place for me to have my voice heard on this matter? I'm thinking an online petition needs to be made. Any suggestions?
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    really what do you want....

    Most phone applications are connected, that means a backend server which means a web connection. This true of the mobile 6 devices as well as the iphone.

    That said, those apps that don't require a server perhaps could somehow be cached, javascript can be run locally as well as servered, and apple may have something in mind.

    Apple said no traditional api for the iphone, but this does not mean they won't come up with something new different.

    One thing I thought of , since the iphone is running essentially a stripped down version of osx it might be possible for them (apple) to run an instance of an internal server, than when not in wifi range (or edge) the ajax applications could run natively.

    Maybe I'm spoiled because I seem to be in wifi coverage at least 90% of the time. Probably hell for someone who has to travel I guess.

    uNext 07-17-2007 11:47 AM

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    I agree webb apps are not revolutionary
    but with this surge of apps that came out i think apple wont back down from their word.......I mean think about it if they do open up th3rd party support all the developers would be so pissed at apple for making them weaste their time with developing webb apps that we might see virus attacks comeing from left and right field.

    It is too depp now for apple to retract back

    Peace 07-17-2007 11:58 AM

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    Quote:

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    Originally Posted by plumbingandtech (Post 3928803)
    http://www.apple.com/contact/

    maybe somewhere here.




    Choice?

    You don't think it _could be_ that they simply did not have the time or resources to release a full api on day 1?
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    The iPhone was in development for 4 years.Thats plenty of time to produce a dev kit for the device.

    jamesarm97 07-17-2007 12:01 PM

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    Originally Posted by plumbingandtech (Post 3928890)
    Meh for me though. I agree witht he OP though. For a lot of stuff they just suck and the tech just won't get there anytime soon.

    For browsing and searching etc.. they are fine. But for other stuff (like even a grocercy list.) they blow for me.. since everytime i go into my grocery store I lose my edge signal.

    Ummm eggs.. yah and milk.. i think.
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    Amen, I have tried twice to do a to-do list in the store and I get no signal every time. I also tried to use the iphone 'scriptures' at church and did not have a signal. So last week I preloaded the page with our lesson on it and 15 minutes into it Safari shutdown and then when I restarted it I could not load the page because of the no signal. Please give us built in apps (eWallet, eBook, pdf storage and such).

    neut 07-17-2007 12:19 PM

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    Quote:

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    Originally Posted by plumbingandtech (Post 3928890)
    Ummm eggs.. yah and milk.. i think.
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    Why don't you use the built in Notes app for a simple list like that? I used it last night for a trip to the store and it worked just fine. No connection necessary thought I have a strong connection to Edge throughout the whole valley.
    _


    peace | neut

    michelle21 07-17-2007 12:21 PM

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    Originally Posted by uNext (Post 3929297)
    I agree webb apps are not revolutionary
    but with this surge of apps that came out i think apple wont back down from their word.......I mean think about it if they do open up th3rd party support all the developers would be so pissed at apple for making them weaste their time with developing webb apps that we might see virus attacks comeing from left and right field.

    It is too depp now for apple to retract back
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    web apps are not revolutionary... but ajax never real caught on outside certain circles, but the iphone is pushing it into the mainstream.

    I'm amazed at what ajax can do, I never delved that deep into javascript before, but now I am looking at a whole new way of changing my development philosophy, I've been a developer for many years.

    What I think needs to happen , and you might actually see this from apple or if some third party can hack something that runs on the phone (hey , they crack the psp) . is to run a small webserver on the iphone. And that would solve the issue of local apps vs. connected apps. So when your at the market or church and outside of wifi range you would connect to localhost, otherwise connect to the net. , servers can be written in pretty much any language, and I've seen them in as little as 20 lines of code.
    Doesn't take much to server javascript, since the browser does most of the work. Couple this with a derby database and you have a nice local dev app platform. Unitl apple decides to support 3g, and then there won't be that much need for the internal apps anymore.

    I do this on my laptop for I can run wordpress and a few other webapps when i'm on the road.

    pwolfe 07-17-2007 12:36 PM

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    All you people supporting the webapp platform dont see anything wrong with having to wait 20-30 seconds for a page to load so you can edit an office document? What if, like me, you work in an area with network deadzones (hospital in my case) and need to access these features. Am i just SOL? Should I take my money elsewhere? I know I'm not the only person with this sentiment.

    mian 07-17-2007 12:41 PM

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    What I think needs to happen , and you might actually see this from apple or if some third party can hack something that runs on the phone (hey , they crack the psp) . is to run a small webserver on the iphone. And that would solve the issue of local apps vs. connected apps. So when your at the market or church and outside of wifi range you would connect to localhost, otherwise connect to the net. , servers can be written in pretty much any language, and I've seen them in as little as 20 lines of code.
    Doesn't take much to server javascript, since the browser does most of the work. Couple this with a derby database and you have a nice local dev app platform. Unitl apple decides to support 3g, and then there won't be that much need for the internal apps anymore.

    I do this on my laptop for I can run wordpress and a few other webapps when i'm on the road.

    This might be the solution at some point.

    http://gears.google.com/

    Chip NoVaMac 07-17-2007 12:45 PM

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    Quote:

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    Originally Posted by pwolfe (Post 3929511)
    All you people supporting the webapp platform dont see anything wrong with having to wait 20-30 seconds for a page to load so you can edit an office document? What if, like me, you work in an area with network deadzones (hospital in my case) and need to access these features. Am i just SOL? Should I take my money elsewhere? I know I'm not the only person with this sentiment.
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    Add to that Apple only promised us a phone with the basic features we have today. I respect Apple at this time trying to protect the phone portion of the iPhone from being corrupted by other apps from 3rd parties.

    macgolfer53 07-17-2007 12:52 PM

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    on the other hand email is a great app for many things

    my wife called me and asked what did I want for dinner - I emailed her a link to a recipe which she used to do her shopping - there are many workarounds for a lot of needed apps - I guess I don't get what are the really highly needed 3rd party apps that you can't live without that don''t have a workaround

    Chip NoVaMac 07-17-2007 12:58 PM

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    Quote:

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    Originally Posted by neut (Post 3929439)
    Why don't you use the built in Notes app for a simple list like that? I used it last night for a trip to the store and it worked just fine. No connection necessary thought I have a strong connection to Edge throughout the whole valley.
    _


    peace | neut
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    This is the one sore point for me on the iPhone. Love the ability to make notes on the iPhone, but am bugged that I can't use a Notes app even on my iMac that is ported over to my iPhone.

    To me this is the biggest missing feature....

    pwolfe 07-17-2007 12:58 PM

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    Originally Posted by macgolfer53 (Post 3929580)
    my wife called me and asked what did I want for dinner - I emailed her a link to a recipe which she used to do her shopping - there are many workarounds for a lot of needed apps - I guess I don't get what are the really highly needed 3rd party apps that you can't live without that don''t have a workaround
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    I didnt pay $600 for workarounds. I paid $600 for a state of the art platform with solid applications, not webapps that i can only use with network access that take forever to load for the simplest of tasks.

    Like I said earlier, I know im an early adopter, I'm not asking for these features to be implemented over night, I just want to know that the possiblity is there, because as it is, the iphone's solution to custom apps is just lame lame lame. When it comes to 3rd party apps I dont want to be limited by Safari, I want to be limited by the hardware.

    boss1 07-17-2007 01:17 PM

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    Quote:

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    Web Apps Suck
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    Amen. I was reluctant to pass judgement on the idea during release but I'm starting to agree more and more now. It just doesn't work well. Especially if those services are important enough for the user that they need to be 1. secure. and 2. not reliant on a very edgy connection (no pun intended).

    Quote from SJ on this subject...
    If you watched the Steve Jobs and Bill Gates television interview with the WSJ


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    Steve jobs said, "The reason google maps on the iPhone is so much better than google's version of google maps is because iPhone's google maps is a rich client that's runs on iPhone hardware, not some version of software that's limited by a web browser".
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    Well it's not an exact word for word quote (i'm too lazy to look up the video and type out his speech) but thats pretty much what he said.

    Now if only he could put his money where his mouth is and give us more rich client apps that run off the iPhone directly. Tied into to backend cloud services or not. People want a rich Messaging app, a rich TO DO app etc.

    pwolfe 07-17-2007 01:23 PM

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    Quote:

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    Originally Posted by boss1 (Post 3929682)
    Amen. I was reluctant to pass judgement on the idea during release but I'm starting to agree more and more now. It just doesn't work well. Especially if those services are important enough for the user that they need to be 1. secure. and 2. not reliant on a very edgy connection (no pun intended).

    Quote from SJ on this subject...
    If you watched the Steve Jobs and Bill Gates television interview with the WSJ



    Well it's not an exact word for word quote (i'm too lazy to look up the video and type out his speech) but thats pretty much what he said.

    Now if only he could put his money where his mouth is and give us more rich client apps that run off the iPhone directly. Tied into to backend cloud services or not. People want a rich Messaging app, a rich TO DO app etc.
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    I couldnt have said it better.

    plumbingandtech 07-17-2007 03:19 PM

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    Originally Posted by Peace (Post 3929344)
    The iPhone was in development for 4 years.Thats plenty of time to produce a dev kit for the device.
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    2 years. was what he said in Jan. Even if it was longer, you ever make a big item? You ever go down the road for months only to discover you have to change your path and wasted 9 months?

    Development is not linear a-z perfect.

    And you still say this despite apple pulling people from the leopard team AND delaying leopard?

    Really?

    Cleverboy 07-17-2007 04:13 PM

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    Originally Posted by plumbingandtech (Post 3930245)
    2 years. was what he said in Jan. Even if it was longer, you ever make a big item? You ever go down the road for months only to discover you have to change your path and wasted 9 months?

    Development is not linear a-z perfect.

    And you still say this despite apple pulling people from the leopard team AND delaying leopard?

    Really?
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    I can't even argue with people like that, more power to you. I think of all the reasons why they don't make ANY sense, and after a while, my mind just spits out a piece of paper... I read it... have a horrified look on my face and hurry away. Better to just recognize that some folks have strong opinions about things they have little real experience on... and one feed the other.

    ~ CB

    plumbingandtech 07-17-2007 04:18 PM

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    Originally Posted by Cleverboy (Post 3930496)
    I can't even argue with people like that, more power to you. I think of all the reasons why they don't make ANY sense, and after a while, my mind just spits out a piece of paper... I read it... have a horrified look on my face and hurry away. Better to just recognize that some folks have strong opinions about things they have little real experience on... and one feed the other.

    ~ CB
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    heh. I realized I had not eaten a big chocolate chip cookie from yesterday so I ate that. I feel better now.

    yayaba 07-17-2007 04:30 PM

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    I haven't really used any of the apps besides the MovieApp (which incredibly I use a LOT more than I thought I would've) and JiveTalk. But I agree, WebApps aren't really the way to go.

    If the iPhone can accomplish something as slick as CoverFlow, think about what developers could do with CoreAnimation, CoreVideo, and CoreAudio on the device. Sigh.

    Didn't the hackers discover that everything ran in root though? I guess the first step Apple would need to do is to have user level permissions activated in the OS in order to allow anyone to touch a SDK.

    one3 07-17-2007 04:53 PM

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    I think everyone should remember that 3rd party apps (web apps in this case) are an ADD ON feature and NOT part of the functionality and specs of the iPhone. It's like buying a Toyota Camery and then being upset at Toyota that they aren't making the car super easy to just add every third party add-on you want in any way you want. The iPhone does all that it's advertised to do and if you are buying it and being disappointed by it's lack of 3rd party app support, well I'm afraid that's just your own fault. You know what you are getting when you are paying for it. If you're not happy with it's functionality ... lots of other 'smartphones' out there for you.

    To quote a previous poster: "I paid $600 for a state of the art platform with solid applications" .... and that's what you are getting .... solid apps built by apple to run well on their phone. apple is not selling or promising in any way anything beyond that. They are providing webapps to run and just like any website they have their limitations. Webapps are just websites after all - and we know how many 'buggy' and badly made sites are out there.

    Besides, how happy would you be if they let developers make 'phone-based' apps and you happen to install "John Doe's Grocery List Platinum Edition Pro" ... and it just happened to have a but that ... oh let's say ... made the phone not be able to make phone calls .. ?

    Anyways. Rant over ... carry one

    Peace 07-18-2007 01:02 PM

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    Originally Posted by plumbingandtech (Post 3930245)
    2 years. was what he said in Jan. Even if it was longer, you ever make a big item? You ever go down the road for months only to discover you have to change your path and wasted 9 months?

    Development is not linear a-z perfect.

    And you still say this despite apple pulling people from the leopard team AND delaying leopard?

    Really?
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    You misunderstood my statement..

    Apple has an internal dev kit.Not for public consumption.Yet.

    plumbingandtech 07-18-2007 01:10 PM

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    Originally Posted by Peace (Post 3934188)
    You misunderstood my statement..

    Apple has an internal dev kit.Not for public consumption.Yet.
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    We are in agreement there.

    and much more I would bet... there was simply so much to do still in Jan. and they REALLY needed to focus on getting the basics right. Which by the 90%+ approval rating of new buyers I would say they achieved.

    damado 07-19-2007 12:14 PM

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    I wouldn't mind the web apps system as much if the internet was broadband, but over EDGE it does make me likely not to use them. The iPhone has most software I really use anyway. Most of the other things are just fun features.

    Manatee 07-19-2007 01:53 PM

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    The lack of a way for third-party developers to create apps for the iPhone is the only thing that disappoints me about the device. I'm sure that Apple themselves will address several of the issues that bug me with their own updates in the coming months... syncing Notes and ToDos, more flexible editing, more UI options (sounds, colors, etc.) Apple is very good at these things, and has done it before with the iLife apps.

    However, Apple can't do everything. And even if they could, they can't do it all at once. I'd like applications that let me create and edit Word and Excel documents on the iPhone. And of course this means I need to be able to manage my own files somewhere on the device. I'd also like some basic games, like Freecell, Solitaire, and a crossword puzzle program that downloads .puz files. And for every app that I would like, there are a buch that other users would like.

    Apple needs to do something to get third party developers working on useful apps as soon as possible. Ok, maybe they want to watch the platform for a while to address and fundamental flaws, and to get a better sense of what many users want. That would make sense to me.

    I'd also be in favor of Apple somehow testing and approving any apps that are to be released for the iPhone. They don't want some rogue developer ruining the user experience -- and thus tarnishing their brand and reputation.

    Ultimately, reviewers are going to start noticing that the iPhone does a lot less for people than other PDA-type devices do. Especially considering its OS X operating system, powerful processor, and substantial memory/storage. The potential is there... the gate just needs to be opened.

    jwa276 07-23-2007 04:54 PM

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    I agree with OP

    Web Apps Suck

    I cannot wait until Apple releases the API, but I want them to do it right the first time- so in that regard I am totally willing to wait.

    vansouza 07-23-2007 05:58 PM

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    Yes they do...

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    Originally Posted by pwolfe (Post 3928733)
    I am starting to really lose my patience with how slow applications load and the general lack of good software for my iphone. I want to let apple know that I am mad as hell about their choice to exclude 3rd party developers. Where is the best place for me to have my voice heard on this matter? I'm thinking an online petition needs to be made. Any suggestions?
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    I appreciate that so many are making these web apps... but they suck. I give props to those who write them nonetheless..
    http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=330739


    Surur
    07-28-2007 06:56 PM
  2. mikec#IM's Avatar
    Best line from above:

    "I didn't pay $600 for workarounds."

    Um, I think you did.

    I do think reverted to the old "no expanasion" mode (just like with the first Mac).

    They may have decided that opening up now was not worth it. Launch on time and make the $$$$.

    Can't say I they made the wrong choice from a bottom line perpective.

    However, I do think they misunderestimated the need/desire for 3rd party rich client apps.
    07-28-2007 08:14 PM
  3. mikec#IM's Avatar
    Just re-read my post.. ug. Sorry for the butchered sentences and typos.
    07-28-2007 08:27 PM
  4. surur's Avatar
    Just re-read my post.. ug. Sorry for the butchered sentences and typos.
    Makes perfect sense to me. Those chaps must be part of the 10% dissatisfied group. The rest seem so easily satisfied...

    Surur
    07-28-2007 08:31 PM
  5. bruckwine's Avatar
    maybe the average iPhone user knows how to calculate % using division? just a thought, but definitely not an excuse for a % button being omitted. as for number crunching goes, i do all of that at work on the PC.
    Well I hope they can do THAT by themselves ! Personally (of course )I find the Palm calculator useful esp when I go on trips and need to convert currencies quickly before buying something abroad - I've seen THAT catch ppl all the time (buy a burger for 7 US and then realise that converts to $42 TT when they usually buy burgers for $10 TT or $1.50 US )
    07-28-2007 09:12 PM
  6. Denny Crane's Avatar
    Makes perfect sense to me. Those chaps must be part of the 10% dissatisfied group. The rest seem so easily satisfied...

    Surur
    Surur, what phone do you use?
    07-28-2007 09:58 PM
  7. cmaier's Avatar
    The whiners clearly haven't tried my webapps yet :-)
    07-28-2007 10:06 PM
  8. oalvarez's Avatar
    The whiners clearly haven't tried my webapps yet :-)
    because they prefer resets and crashes.
    07-28-2007 10:55 PM
  9. mikec#IM's Avatar
    I tried the webapps you posted links for.

    Nice...except I have to be connected to use it...or wait for the data connection to the server to be made and the app downloaded, which is time I'd rather not waste.

    Not sure where preferring reset and crashes comes from...no on wants those.
    07-28-2007 11:08 PM
  10. cmaier's Avatar
    The webapps I write are generally client-side only, so once they're loaded, no need for a net connection. If you have a "tab" open with the document, that is. I am not sure how it decides when to cache stuff - i think if you click a bookmark, it always tries the network.
    07-28-2007 11:24 PM
  11. Postal's Avatar
    Surur, what phone do you use?
    07-29-2007 12:01 AM
  12. surur's Avatar
    Sorry, I did not see that post. Crane is on my ignore list.

    This is my active collection at present.



    The HTC Touch is incredible small, and the Touch interface addictive, but the lack of 3G is starting to get on my nerves, specifically not being able to download podcasts directly to the device, or stream music at GPRS speeds (No EDGE on most networks in UK)



    The HTC Universal has been my work horse for 17 months so far. The keyboard is just brilliant, and the 220 dpi 3.6 inch screen is just lovely. I am using it with the Touch at present, but I leave it in my bag most of the time. I use it every day to tether and take notes. Upgrade time is coming, and the HTC Omni would fill it's shoes nicely.



    The HTC Vox is only 3 months old, but it was my first WM standard device. It worked better than I thought, but I ended up using it only for a month. I dropped it as soon as the Touch came out. Its lying on my desk right now, making me feel guilty for wasting 300 pounds.



    My wife's HP 6915, which I use on occasion. Its main feature is the built-in GPS and keyboard. I actually like the device a lot, and I have recently asked her if she wants it upgraded, and she declined. I guess being able to find your location anywhere and find your way home is more valuable than I thought. There is no device at present which has the similar form factor and features, but I understand HP is working on a replacement itself.

    And thats my gadget bag.

    Surur
    07-29-2007 04:24 AM
  13. surur's Avatar
    Now this is amusing. The whole raison d'tre of the iPhone browser is whats causing it to crash...

    - Increase your Safari stability


    inferno10 07-29-2007 02:03

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    Increase your Safari stability

    I think I discovered what is causing Safari on iphones to crash, especially on HowardForums. Seems that JavaScript is the culprit, as turning off JavaScript in Safari preferences significantly improved my browser's uptime. I'm even typing this message from my iPhone with multiple tabs open while listening to music in the iPod app!

    Go disable Javascript (found in Settings > Safari) and post if your browser stability improves. It'll suck if you want to run an Ajax app, but browsing HoFo is much more important.
    http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=1211498

    Surur
    07-29-2007 07:59 AM
  14. oalvarez's Avatar
    why is my Safari browser not crashing? why is my iPhone not rebooting itself? i feel like i'm missing out. might be time to recharge one of my dusty old Treos to rekindle those feelings.

    that HTC Touch is cool, looks real small, but it doesn't appear to have a keyboard and if it's virtual, would probably be non-functional. and it doesn't have 3G! not sure it would work as a business device for me, might be a neat little text'r for someone i'm sure.

    i'm going to buy a Mogul today just to try one out, to see what i might be missing. but i'm afraid the bulkiness and the slideout keyboard will be its demise.
    07-29-2007 09:37 AM
  15. surur's Avatar
    that HTC Touch is cool, looks real small, but it doesn't appear to have a keyboard and if it's virtual, would probably be non-functional. and it doesn't have 3G! not sure it would work as a business device for me, might be a neat little text'r for someone i'm sure.

    i'm going to buy a Mogul today just to try one out, to see what i might be missing. but i'm afraid the bulkiness and the slideout keyboard will be its demise.
    There's no perfect device, thats why we have a few....

    Surur
    07-29-2007 10:29 AM
  16. oalvarez's Avatar
    ^you can say that again...
    07-29-2007 10:51 AM
  17. cmaier's Avatar
    Now this is amusing. The whole raison d'tre of the iPhone browser is whats causing it to crash...



    http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=1211498

    Surur
    This matches my earlier observations. I believe the problem is a memory management problem in the javascript engine (probably a bug in garbage collection).

    Note, however, that this isn't a case of "if you have javascript on you will crash." More like "if you crashed, it was because of javascript."

    I seem to crash about once a day, which is annoying. Importantly, crashing safari on the iphone is about as pleasant as crashing can be. It crashes instantly, you restart it instantly, and you're back where you were.
    07-29-2007 01:01 PM
  18. oalvarez's Avatar
    what website can i try to see if it crashes my device? sounds like i'm not visiting sites that cause these types of problems.

    thanks in advance
    07-29-2007 01:43 PM
  19. cmaier's Avatar
    I haven't seen a lot of repeatability. Typically when I crash, I crash when i have tabs open with, say, gmail, adsense, or other ajax sites open, and then I open another one or reload a page. When it crashes, it crashes on page load.
    07-29-2007 01:47 PM
  20. mobileman's Avatar
    Surur,

    I wasn't aware you lived in the U.K. So you have been complaining about the iPhone for awhile now and have used it zero times. Just wondering what your motivation for spending so much time searching for negative iphone posts on the net and reposting them here for a phone you have never seen first hand.
    07-29-2007 01:57 PM
  21. mobileman's Avatar
    The webapps I write are generally client-side only, so once they're loaded, no need for a net connection. If you have a "tab" open with the document, that is. I am not sure how it decides when to cache stuff - i think if you click a bookmark, it always tries the network.
    pretty neat app. Took about 5 seconds to load on my iPhone.
    07-29-2007 02:01 PM
  22. cmaier's Avatar
    most of the delay was probably the google ad server.

    Another app coming on monday...
    07-29-2007 02:06 PM
  23. surur's Avatar
    Surur,

    I wasn't aware you lived in the U.K. So you have been complaining about the iPhone for awhile now and have used it zero times. Just wondering what your motivation for spending so much time searching for negative iphone posts on the net and reposting them here for a phone you have never seen first hand.
    I hate undeserved hype, especially the type Apple thrives on. I am doing my small part to puncture it. I think there are a few 100 TreoCentral users who are now better informed about the iPhone and its failings, and that is thanks enough.

    Surur
    07-29-2007 02:35 PM
  24. cmaier's Avatar
    I hate undeserved hype, especially the type Apple thrives on. I am doing my small part to puncture it. I think there are a few 100 TreoCentral users who are now better informed about the iPhone and its failings, and that is thanks enough.

    Surur
    Funny thing is, after all those posts, I don't think I've learned anything of consequence (to me) that I didn't already know when I bought my iphones.

    I apologize if I mistakenly attribute any of the following to you - there have been so many posts on so many threads...

    Of consequence:
    - no 3G/Edge is not fast. Already knew it. And I'm still in better shape than I was on my treo 650
    - no 3rd party apps. Already knew it. There are some nice web apps, and i've written a few. Still hoping for an SDK. This is a big one.
    - no file system access. No cut/paste. Yep, already knew that. Partial cut/paste solution with bookmarklets.
    - no gps. yep, knew that.
    - battery: not user-replaceable sucks. I have no concerns about capacity, lifespan, etc.
    - carrier lock-in. I may have stuck with sprint if they offered it. Not sure. Since I'm travelling to germany and holland on business in the near future, it would be nice if i could buy local pre-paid sims and shove them in the iphone. Not the end of the world for me.

    Untrue:
    - lock-ups, phone crashes, crashes during phone calls, etc. Untrue to the extent that the implication is they are universal (or probably common). Neither of my phones has ever crashed or rebooted.

    Silly:
    - no updates yet. Ok. I don't care if other people are whining about this. They'll come.

    Just don't care:
    - calculator sucks. Yep. Every cellphone calculator sucks by my standards, though iphone sucks more than many others.
    - no mms. never used it. never will
    - no chat. jivetalk works great, and i always chat on my browser anyway.
    - no a2dp. Never used it. never will (at least until i someday buy a new car).

    True, but not a big deal:
    - safari crashes. Yep. But when a crash happens it costs you almost 0 time, and only one click. Still needs to be solved, and probably will be.
    - not true: safari crashes whenever you use ipod features. Not with my 2 iphones, at least. In fact, has never happened.

    I'm sure I missed a lot, but other than passing off isolated complaints as general problems, not a lot going on here I think.
    07-29-2007 03:57 PM
  25. oalvarez's Avatar
    Condensed and has been rehashed by many of us but perhaps this will carry more weight in how it is presented here. Now will come why it isn't unlocked and how choices were made for us. Then we'll hear about how Jobs said this and that and how it's not 5yrs ahead of its time and the vicious circle will begin once again.

    I do agree with you though.
    07-29-2007 04:45 PM
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