1. oalvarez's Avatar
    I think this is what separates Apple users from the rest of the world--that emotional-level commitment to their devices and branding, where any critique is perceived as "envy". It would appear from the forums that a lot of people here like WM but don't gush at numbers, stock or even bat an eye at "analyst" reports; it's only important to those who need to prove something or make up for some other deficiency (look at me! I'm psychoanalyzing like Jack...)
    i think it's comments such as this that go to raise an eyebrow. you now are labeling any and all apple users as having some "emotional-level commitment" to their devices and branding. where do you get this from? i personally own both Windows based PC's as well as Apple/Mac PC products and have no such "commitment" as you call it and i'm sure others are in the same camp. it's the length to which some of you go to disparage and attempt to create some sort of inequality of an owner of anything Apple, and most specifically an owner of an iPhone. i think it's comments like yours that show that perhaps it is you and yours with something to prove. for heaven's sake it's a phone device and it is one that some have decided to purchase but you few continue to deride and the like. we've gone from trolling, to thread crappers, to now surfers. what's it going to be next? i'm sure one of you will come up with some smart-alec response to that in short order.

    it's a phone device. if you can accept that then let the rest of it go.
    07-26-2007 04:17 PM
  2. mikec#IM's Avatar
    Awesome post, this made me chuckle, thanks.

    Point 1:
    I use to surf a lot when I spent a few years in California. I was never really good and it, and almost killed myself once after a bad wipeout. How did you know I like to surf?

    Point 2:
    You need to seriously look at some of your old posts if you think you didn't imply the initial launch weekend was poor. Stand by your comments, or admit you were wrong.

    Point 3:
    I have nothing against the employees at the Apple Store. I put myself through college working minimum wage jobs. Why do you assume because I said they make minimum wage I was putting down anybody?

    Point 4:
    So I was right, according to you I am a fanboy. So this it what it feels like. Where do I get my membership card?

    Point 5:
    So I am an elitist. So this it what it feels like. Where do I get my membership card?


    MikeC, I'm curious how iPhone sales are doing this week. If your near you local mall tommorow, can you check for me? That should be a pretty good indication of the market in general.
    Response to Point 1: Surfers are easy to identify. But my use of the term surfer is not the same as your interpretation.

    Respone to Point 2: I don't need to disprove your misstatements, you need to prove them yourself. I didn't imply anything - I was noting the difference between the nubmer reported and the hyped numbers. I made no comment about it being a "poor" launch (nothing about iPhone launch was poor, that's for sure) ; that was your lie.)

    Response to Point 3: You have an attitude about minimum wage workers. Here is your exact words:

    "You even go so far to try to further your assumption with first hand reports and a conversation with a salesman at your local apple store (probably a teenager making just above minimum wage)."

    Anyone who read that sees the disparaging connotation about people who work in the Apple Store, low wage earners, and teenagers. (and therefore, anything they say is worthless.)

    Response to Point 4: If you want to self describe yourself, go right ahead.

    Response to Point 5: See Point 4.

    Re: iPhone sales, if you want one, the stores seem to have plenty.
    07-26-2007 04:29 PM
  3. Malatesta's Avatar
    i think it's comments such as this that go to raise an eyebrow. you now are labeling any and all apple users as having some "emotional-level commitment" to their devices and branding. where do you get this from? i personally own both Windows based PC's as well as Apple/Mac PC products and have no such "commitment" as you call it and i'm sure others are in the same camp. it's the length to which some of you go to disparage and attempt to create some sort of inequality of an owner of anything Apple, and most specifically an owner of an iPhone. i think it's comments like yours that show that perhaps it is you and yours with something to prove. for heaven's sake it's a phone device and it is one that some have decided to purchase but you few continue to deride and the like. we've gone from trolling, to thread crappers, to now surfers. what's it going to be next? i'm sure one of you will come up with some smart-alec response to that in short order.

    it's a phone device. if you can accept that then let the rest of it go.
    I was going to modify my post to use the restricting quantifier: some

    As in some Apple users...

    In hindsight I should have done that but to be honest, my comment was off-the-cuff. Though I should point out that I never used a universal quantifier in my post e.g. "all". That's how you interpreted it, and I maintain, misinterpreted. I rarely use sweeping generalization in my posts where I say "all" or "every single". You'll be hard pressed to find an example.

    Either way, one person or 100 can't disprove my assertion, which I still maintain. Why else are you involved in this thread if not to defend the iPhone? You obviously feel strongly about it as you've "left" and then returned numerous times.

    it's the length to which some of you go to disparage and attempt to create some sort of inequality of an owner of anything Apple, and most specifically an owner of an iPhone.
    I'm not sure it's necessarily disparaging. A lot of Apple fans fly their flag quite high and proudly. I rarely see such commitment to MS or WM. Sure people prefer it, but it's not really debated.

    It was the opposite around here (TC) for a long time when WM entered the market: I had to defend WM to POS for a very long time, not out of commitment or thinking one was superior (subjective) but merely for the fact it did what I want and as predicted, it would surpass POS.

    Fact is, this is an iPhone "bashing" thread. No secret there. So I see no reason at all to apologize or ameliorate what is said here.

    I'm also not sure how I've "derided" so much as critiqued. But once again, this is the Apple victim hood coming forth.

    And if elitism of Apple and their superiority complex were not true, I fail to understand how this actually works as sarcasm and parody:

    Apple Store to Begin Charging Entrance Fee


    It's funny because there is an element of truth in it. You can't make that joke about MS (though you could make others for sure).
    07-26-2007 04:32 PM
  4. mobileman's Avatar
    Response to Point 1: Surfers are easy to identify. But my use of the term surfer is not the same as your interpretation.
    Yep, your definition is as accurate as your iPhone sales analysis

    I don't need to disprove your misstatements, you need to prove them yourself. I didn't imply anything - I was noting the difference between the nubmer reported and the hyped numbers. I made no comment about it being a "poor" launch (nothing about iPhone launch was poor, that's for sure) ; that was your lie.)
    Yep, thats why right after the AT&T numbers were posted, your first comment was how the "Apple fanboys are crying". Or are you now claiming you didn't say this. Is this not an implication by you that the numbers were poor?

    Response to Point 3: You have an attitude about minimum wage workers. Here is your exact words:

    "You even go so far to try to further your assumption with first hand reports and a conversation with a salesman at your local apple store (probably a teenager making just above minimum wage)."

    Anyone who read that sees the disparaging connotation about people who work in the Apple Store, low wage earners, and teenagers. (and therefore, anything they say is worthless.)
    By stating that Apple is probably paying its in store workers low salaries is disparaging? How can the truth be disparaging? Or did you change the definition of disparaging like you did surfer?

    iPhone sales, if you want one, the stores seem to have plenty.
    In some strange money making scheme, Apple has kept producing units of iPhones past the initial weekend for current and future sales. My goodness, do I really need to explain this one to you?
    07-26-2007 04:57 PM
  5. braj's Avatar
    mobileman, I took your mention of Apple store employees as meaning they don't make enough money to know anything. Which might just be the case, but also if you want to know if the food at a restaurant is good you ask the cook. Just like in Iraq, the Generals may say everything is peachy but ask the guys in the humvees if they agree and you may get a perspective that is radically different. Store employees can tell you if they have more stock now than they expected at this point (where you likely wouldn't get an honest answer by management). One store can be a reflection of the mood in the market in general. Of course this isn't scientific but still worth something.
    07-26-2007 05:06 PM
  6. treobk214's Avatar
    I'm really getting a kick out of mal's sanctimonious tendencies here. Wow, now there is an "apple victim" hood? "Apple elitism and superiority complexes?" You're really on a pretentious roll here, aren't ya?

    Does anyone else see a glaring hypocrisy in this guy's comments?

    I can't get over what a big deal he makes out of absolutely nothing. This psychobabbling mixed with insinuations, snide little innuendos towards "SOME" apple users - wow, and HE talks about headcases, right? Pfft. lmao.

    I think its typical, and not too far away from troll behavior, I'd say. He's obviously just suffering with a sour grapes attitude and lashing out with attempts to insult those with an opposing viewpoint.
    07-26-2007 05:06 PM
  7. Malatesta's Avatar
    I'm really getting a kick out of mal's sanctimonious tendencies here. Wow, now there is an "apple victim" hood? "Apple elitism and superiority complexes?" You're really on a pretentious roll here, aren't ya?

    Does anyone else see a glaring hypocrisy in this guy's comments?

    I can't get over what a big deal he makes out of absolutely nothing. This psychobabbling mixed with insinuations, snide little innuendos towards "SOME" apple users - wow, and HE talks about headcases, right? Pfft. lmao.

    I think its typical, and not too far away from troll behavior, I'd say. He's obviously just suffering with a sour grapes attitude and lashing out with attempts to insult those with an opposing viewpoint.
    And what pray tell does your post reflect? Is it not a direct attack on myself? You posts lends itself to the term irony.

    Where is my hypocrisy? You brought it up, define what you mean.

    I wasn't insinuating anything, I was asserting. No secrecy or ulterior motives. I don't think I could have been anymore clear in fact. Do you even know the difference between innuendo and asserting?

    Insulting those with opposing view points? Trolling? Treobk214, what makes your posts so helpful here? Unless you are one of those Apple fans who define themselves by their product, I can't see how I could have insulted you.

    Not only are you a poor debater I'm not sure you have a good grasp on the terms you throw around.

    If you don't like my posts you have two options
    (1) Ignore them and don't reply
    (2) PM me

    Anything other than that is just flamming.
    07-26-2007 05:11 PM
  8. mobileman's Avatar
    mobileman, I took your mention of Apple store employees as meaning they don't make enough money to know anything.
    Or maybe you should have taken it as a store employee in one store is not knowledgeable enough or doesn't have nearly enough information to base how iPhone sales are doing on a national basis.

    The Apple store near my house might be having a hard time keeping the iPhone in stock. But I'm not naive enough to therefore make an assumption that the iPhone is selling very well everyplace.
    07-26-2007 05:12 PM
  9. mikec#IM's Avatar
    Yep, your definition is as accurate as your iPhone sales analysis



    Yep, thats why right after the AT&T numbers were posted, your first comment was how the "Apple fanboys are crying". Or are you now claiming you didn't say this. Is this not an implication by you that the numbers were poor?



    By stating that Apple is probably paying its in store workers low salaries is disparaging? How can the truth be disparaging? Or did you change the definition of disparaging like you did surfer?



    In some strange money making scheme, Apple has kept producing units of iPhones past the initial weekend for current and future sales. My goodness, do I really need to explain this one to you?
    Again, to address your comments:

    1.) It not a definition. Surfer is shorthand for something else. I see you tried to use it in your post. Doesn't work that way, unles you know exactly what it means.

    2.) I did not say what you quote. Please reference the post. If you can't, then I can't help you. Again, you are making misstatements. I've addressed the one you posted previously. If you have another, go ahead.

    3.) Your intent in that statement was obvious, as many would attest.

    4.) You asked me about iPhone sales; I was just telling you they have them in stock, nothing more.
    07-26-2007 05:12 PM
  10. mikec#IM's Avatar
    I'm really getting a kick out of mal's sanctimonious tendencies here. Wow, now there is an "apple victim" hood? "Apple elitism and superiority complexes?" You're really on a pretentious roll here, aren't ya?

    Does anyone else see a glaring hypocrisy in this guy's comments?

    I can't get over what a big deal he makes out of absolutely nothing. This psychobabbling mixed with insinuations, snide little innuendos towards "SOME" apple users - wow, and HE talks about headcases, right? Pfft. lmao.

    I think its typical, and not too far away from troll behavior, I'd say. He's obviously just suffering with a sour grapes attitude and lashing out with attempts to insult those with an opposing viewpoint.
    The martyr suit does not fit you well.
    07-26-2007 05:14 PM
  11. braj's Avatar
    I've known enough Mac users (being one myself, spending years on Macaddict's forums) to know a significant percentage of Mac users do feel like they have to stick up for Macs and are really defensive at any criticism of the platform and company whether it is warranted or not. I'm sure there are Palm loyalists, Windows loyalist, Ford Pinto loyalists and 3Com Audry loyalists and on ... that do this as well.

    But back to Apple users, there is an element of truth to it like Mal says: some people buy Macs to show that they can afford them, just like the motivation behind buying lots of other high end products. And some are insecure that they made a bad deal and need to convince themselves and others that they didn't. I know people on the opposite end of the spectrum that buy low-end and then try to justify why that piece of crap they own is better than a Ferrari. Whether it is or not is irrelevant really. It's a neurosis or something.
    07-26-2007 05:15 PM
  12. mikec#IM's Avatar
    Or maybe you should have taken it as a store employee in one store is not knowledgeable enough or doesn't have nearly enough information to base how iPhone sales are doing on a national basis.

    The Apple store near my house might be having a hard time keeping the iPhone in stock. But I'm not naive enough to therefore make an assumption that the iPhone is selling very well everyplace.
    It is reasonable for a salesperson in a store to know how sale are in that store.

    Whether you extroplate that is a different matter.

    What is apparent - there are not lines out the door to buy an iPhone. People reporting buying them are having very easy experience. So there is not a supply problem at this time.
    07-26-2007 05:17 PM
  13. braj's Avatar
    Or maybe you should have taken it as a store employee in one store is not knowledgeable enough or doesn't have nearly enough information to base how iPhone sales are doing on a national basis.
    But then what is the purpose of you mentioning what they are payed, unless mikec is right about you?
    07-26-2007 05:17 PM
  14. mikec#IM's Avatar
    But then what is the purpose of you mentioning what they are payed, unless mikec is right about you?
    Ding ding ding ding...we have a winner.
    07-26-2007 05:20 PM
  15. mobileman's Avatar
    Again, to address your comments:



    2.) I did not say what you quote. Please reference the post. If you can't, then I can't help you. Again, you are making misstatements. I've addressed the one you posted previously. If you have another, go ahead.


    Reality sucks for fanboys.
    This was your exact statement the day AT&T announced their activations. What did you mean by this then? No more lies please.
    07-26-2007 05:21 PM
  16. braj's Avatar
    I think it is funny that the iPhone fanboys among us that this thread and people who participate in any criticism to mean that we don't think there is anything good about the iPhone. " 10 Things that "Absolutely suck" about the iPhone. (Yes I have one) doesn't mean there aren't 10 things that are absolutely wonderful. Maybe I'll start another thread...
    07-26-2007 05:25 PM
  17. treobk214's Avatar
    The martyr suit does not fit you well.
    What was that the windoze folks were saying about arrogance? You guys are so transparent its hilarious. Id say a clown suit would fit you perfectly, mikec.
    07-26-2007 05:26 PM
  18. treobk214's Avatar
    I think it is funny that the iPhone fanboys among us that this thread and people who participate in any criticism to mean that we don't think there is anything good about the iPhone. " 10 Things that "Absolutely suck" about the iPhone. (Yes I have one) doesn't mean there aren't 10 things that are absolutely wonderful. Maybe I'll start another thread...
    So no pro-apple posts are allowed in an iphone bashing thread? This is getting even better.
    07-26-2007 05:27 PM
  19. treobk214's Avatar
    And what pray tell does your post reflect? Is it not a direct attack on myself? You posts lends itself to the term irony.

    Where is my hypocrisy? You brought it up, define what you mean.

    I wasn't insinuating anything, I was asserting. No secrecy or ulterior motives. I don't think I could have been anymore clear in fact. Do you even know the difference between innuendo and asserting?

    Insulting those with opposing view points? Trolling? Treobk214, what makes your posts so helpful here? Unless you are one of those Apple fans who define themselves by their product, I can't see how I could have insulted you.

    Not only are you a poor debater I'm not sure you have a good grasp on the terms you throw around.

    If you don't like my posts you have two options
    (1) Ignore them and don't reply
    (2) PM me

    Anything other than that is just flamming.
    All you are doing around here is flamebaiting, mal. Exactly who are you trying to kid?
    07-26-2007 05:31 PM
  20. whmurray's Avatar
    So I guess Apple's overall numbers greatly exceeded expectations, but i don't see iphone numbers other than the "1 million by end of its first quarter" (which implies they're nowhere near a million yet).
    And 10M in 2008.
    07-26-2007 05:34 PM
  21. Malatesta's Avatar
    All you are doing around here is flamebaiting, mal. Exactly who are you trying to kid?
    As opposed to what you wrote where you personally attacked me?

    You have a problem with my posts, take it up with a Moderator.

    Otherwise, stop responding to my posts as you have no authority here. :thumbsdn:

    (Nice to see you actually avoided challenging anything I wrote. Says a lot about your case.)
    07-26-2007 05:35 PM
  22. braj's Avatar
    So no pro-apple posts are allowed in an iphone bashing thread? This is getting even better.
    No, I'm saying irrational defensivness is totally allowed but 'funny' as in neurotic. I believe in free speech.
    07-26-2007 05:36 PM
  23. braj's Avatar
    All you are doing around here is flamebaiting, mal. Exactly who are you trying to kid?
    That's ironic
    07-26-2007 05:37 PM
  24. mikec#IM's Avatar
    This was your exact statement the day AT&T announced their activations. What did you mean by this then? No more lies please.
    You imply I lied previously, which is, as everyone can see, the true lie.

    I'll answer this again, but for you surfer, I will do so one last time.

    Reality (the information presented that day) was disappointing to those who predicted significantly higher numbers.
    07-26-2007 05:42 PM
  25. mikec#IM's Avatar
    What was that the windoze folks were saying about arrogance? You guys are so transparent its hilarious. Id say a clown suit would fit you perfectly, mikec.
    A true surfer, that you are.
    07-26-2007 05:44 PM
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