1. mikec#IM's Avatar
    Isn't the point of the iPhone that you should only get 10-20 emails a day, have lots of time to listen to music and videos, and just chill out while the rest of the working stiffs keep society functioning?
    07-22-2007 07:24 PM
  2. KStewart's Avatar
    Keep em commin Surur...
    07-22-2007 07:27 PM
  3. mikec#IM's Avatar
    Looks like people are expecting iPhone updates fast and furious...too bad in the phone world, updates are few and far between.

    This may change with the iPhone, but generally on most smartphones, (and phones) firmware/software patches are rare (compared to desktop software)
    07-22-2007 07:32 PM
  4. surur's Avatar
    Looks like people are expecting iPhone updates fast and furious...too bad in the phone world, updates are few and far between.
    Too true. This is the last one for the evening. I'm sure there will be more tomorrow. Until the "update" the iPhone pain can only grow.

    How Often Does your iPhone Freeze?

    MSME Jul 22, 2007 11:19 AM

    How Often Does your iPhone Freeze?
    Sorry if this topic has been posted before . . . I haven't seen too much discussion on this in these forums or elsewhere.

    My question is pretty simple. How often does your iPhone freeze up (requiring a hard-reset)? Also, is it something to be concerned about? I've only experienced it once, when receiving a call. Honestly, I would expect the device to freeze occasionally. My previous phone, a Samsung Blackjack, would completely lock up once a week or so. I'm very curious how many other iPhone users have experienced this, and how often.
    icruise Jul 22, 2007 11:38 AM

    I've never had it freeze up, but I do have Safari quit on me pretty regularly.
    butterfly0fdoom Jul 22, 2007 02:11 PM

    Mine froze a lot when I was doing e-mail stuff (i messed up the POP settings for Gmail, so the iPhone loaded over 250 messages >.<). Well, not exactly froze, it just lagged so much that it may as well have froze.
    ::maroma:: Jul 22, 2007 02:47 PM

    Mine has froze once.
    DKeithA Jul 22, 2007 02:49 PM

    One freeze here so far - it was while Mail was downloading.
    Stogieman Jul 22, 2007 03:03 PM

    Mine froze once (trying to load the hot babes thread). I've had Safari and Google Maps crash on me on a few occasions.
    butterfly0fdoom Jul 22, 2007 05:03 PM

    Well, I've been using safari a lot in the past hour and it's crashed/quit on me a lot. Software update soon, please? Although I do like the keyboard. It's so awesome and I'm doing fine two-handed (trust really is key here.
    mikemako Jul 22, 2007 06:31 PM

    My iPhone hasn't frozen yet and I've been using it heavily since launch day. My main problem is with Safari. Typing in Safari sometimes gets sluggish, and Safari crashes pretty often.
    http://forums.macnn.com/103/ipod-iph...iphone-freeze/

    Surur
    07-22-2007 07:41 PM
  5. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    Looks like people are expecting iPhone updates fast and furious...too bad in the phone world, updates are few and far between.

    This may change with the iPhone, but generally on most smartphones, (and phones) firmware/software patches are rare (compared to desktop software)
    Well with credit to Apple, they do release updates for other things, so let's hope they do the same for the iPhone.

    As soon as they release the iPhone with a firmware update for SMS, I may be onboard as using the iPhone as my new after hours phone.
    07-23-2007 01:00 AM
  6. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    Someone posted the iPhone ringtones and I listened to them the other day. Lame, very lame if that's truly all you get included. Are you sure we can't use our own ringtones?
    07-23-2007 01:12 AM
  7. surur's Avatar
    And the pain continues. This is what happens when you paint a big bulls-eye on your back.

    Jobs:

    WWDC: Jobs’ Keynote: iPhone, Safari for Windows, Etc.
    By Staci D. Kramer - Mon 11 Jun 2007 11:14 AM PST

    The Steve Jobs keynote isn’t being live webcast but it is being live blogged by, among others. Engadget and B20. Some of the relevant highlights:

    iPhone: Sales start at 6 p.m. June 29. Developers will be able to create Safari-based apps. No SDK—can go live June 29. (B20) Jobs: “So you can write amazing Web 2.0 and AJAX apps that look and behave exactly like apps on the iPhone, and these apps can integrate perfectly with iPhone services. They can make a call, check email, look up a location on Gmaps… don’t worry about distribution, just put ‘em on an internet server. They’re easy to update, just update it on your server. They’re secure, and they run securely sandboxed on the iPhone. And guess what, there’s no SDK you need! You’ve got everything you need if you can write modern web apps...”
    http://www.paidcontent.org/entry/419...te-iphone-etc/


    Report: security flaw lets hackers pwn iPhone

    Computer security researchers at Independent Security Evaluators say they've found a way to take control of an iPhone by way of a WiFi connection or by tricking users into accessing malware on a website.

    This is the first report of a verified data security vulnerability with Apple's iPhone, but no known exploit incidents have occurred. Apple says they're evaluating ISE's findings.

    John Schwartz reports in Monday's New York Times:

    [ISE's Charles A.] Miller, a former employee of the National Security Agency who has a doctorate in computer science, demonstrated the hack to a reporter by using his iPhone’s Web browser to visit a Web site of his own design.
    Once he was there, the site injected a bit of code into the iPhone that then took over the phone. The phone promptly followed instructions to transmit a set of files to the attacking computer that included recent text messages — including one that had been sent to the reporter’s cellphone moments before — as well as telephone contacts and e-mail addresses.

    “We can get any file we want,” he said. Potentially, he added, the attack could be used to program the phone to make calls, running up large bills or even turning it into a portable bugging device.

    Link to article.
    exploitingiphone.com has more info, including a preliminary version of the paper describing the attack. the ISE's Dr. Miller is scheduled to present the details of the exploit at BlackHat in Las Vegas on August 2.

    The website also includes an h.264 (= iphone-compatible) video that demonstrates the exploit: Video Link. Note that scotch tape and pretzels are required to complete this sophisticated hack.

    Now, given all that, I love the way the NYT story ends:

    [ISE founder Aviel D.] Rubin said, “I will think twice before getting on a random public WiFi network now,” but his overall opinion of the phone has not changed. “You’d have to pry it out of my cold, dead hands to get it away from me,” he said.
    http://www.boingboing.net/2007/07/22...rity_flaw.html

    And the iFanboy response:
    anaknipedro 07-22-2007 10:43 PM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Not

    I don't believe this. A website crafted to force the iPhone to make unsolicited calls? These guys can't be for real. This is FUD FUD FUD.

    badtzmaru 07-22-2007 11:01 PM

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    at least we know an iphone update is coming before, or around, august 2!!

    ErikGrim 07-22-2007 11:02 PM

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    Quote:

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Originally Posted by anaknipedro (Post 3950329)
    I don't believe this. A website crafted to force the iPhone to make unsolicited calls? These guys can't be for real. This is FUD FUD FUD.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Why would this be FUD? Unlike the other recent claims of OS X worms and not to mention the whole Month of OS X bugs debacle, these are "ethical" hackers, disclosing the information to Apple FIRST so that they can issue a fix before releasing the information to the general public.

    These kind of independent security analyses actually benefit the end user rather than harm them. There's no FUD here at all. Read their FAQ.

    Lancetx 07-22-2007 11:04 PM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I'll bet Apple gets a fix out there before this August 2nd conference occurs. I'm not alarmed, as this will get fixed soon enough. In the meantime though, I'll just make sure not to connect to any unknown wi-fi networks.

    badtzmaru 07-22-2007 11:05 PM

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    before anyone says "this is impossible" visit the firm's website and read their preliminary paper (ignore the part about the iphone being released on june 28

    http://www.securityevaluators.com/

    dfnj123 07-22-2007 11:06 PM

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    we should all really be happy about this. It points out a flaw made by apple that they can now fix.

    ~Shard~ 07-22-2007 11:12 PM



    coolfactor 07-22-2007 11:29 PM

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    Quote:

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Originally Posted by dfnj123 (Post 3950366)
    we should all really be happy about this. It points out a flaw made by apple that they can now fix.


    Dippo 07-22-2007 11:35 PM

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    Then why can't we run 3rd Party Apps?

    If this "virus" is for real, then it could be considered a 3rd party app.

    So then it should be possible to run other 3rd Party apps on the iPhone.
    Maybe it is good news in disguise.


    Personally, I think it is fake.

    SC68Cal 07-22-2007 11:46 PM

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    This is why you don't run everything as Root

    macrumors12345 07-22-2007 11:50 PM

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    Quote:

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Personally, I think it is fake.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    It's not a fake. One of the principal analysts at the company is a friend of mine (he told us about this hack two days ago), not to mention a devoted Apple fan (and fulltime iPhone user).

    The hack is definitely real (and it's not really a virus in the sense that it doesn't self-replicate - it's just an exploitable flaw that allows arbitrary code execution). That said, it really doesn't make a significance difference (though Apple should, and undoubtedly will, fix it). Unless you lock your iPhone with a passcode (which would be a major PITA), it's an inherently insecure device and should be treated as such. This hack doesn't give someone substantially more information than they could get by just pick-pocketing your iPhone or finding your lost iPhone. In other words, don't store anything on your iPhone (or any phone) that you feel must stay confidential.

    Any limitations Apple puts on 3rd party apps are more likely for *reliability* than security. The iPhone is - like all cell phones - an inherently insecure device.

    corywoolf 07-23-2007 12:00 AM

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    It makes you wonder if watching that YouTube video (of the exploit) on your iPhone would make your iPhone explode in confusion?

    33scottie33 07-23-2007 12:15 AM

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    Ha, no patch needed, here is the solution!

    How the exploit works

    1. An attacker controlled wireless access point: Because the iPhone learns access points by name (SSID), if a user ever gets near an attacker-controlled access point with the same name (and encryption type) as an access point previously trusted by the user, the iPhone will automatically use the malicious access point.

    Unless they set up APs across the world, this is no big issue. The odds are slim too, seeing that it has to be the same SSID and encryption type. Not to mention the range of WiFi.

    2. A misconfigured forum website: If a web forum's software is not configured to prevent users from including potentially dangerous data in their posts, an attacker could cause the exploit to run in any iPhone browser that viewed the thread.

    Stick with major, trusted forums like macrumors.


    3. A link delivered via e-mail or SMS: If an attacker can trick a user into opening a website that the attacker controls, the attacker can easily embed the exploit into the main page of the website.

    This can happen to any computer or device that connects to the Internet if you are not careful. Also, we all know not to click on links we are not familiar with or are unsolicited.

    egdiroh 07-23-2007 12:16 AM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Will this help the iphone modding community?

    Depending on what they mean by arbitrary code, could this be used to open up the iphone to the home brew software crowd?

    I'd love to get a native terminal+ssh or IM client on my phone. Then it would let me roam free from my laptop more
    .
    http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=332792

    And they sing together ..."Always look on the bright side of life ...."

    Surur
    07-23-2007 02:43 AM
  8. surur's Avatar
    Someone posted the iPhone ringtones and I listened to them the other day. Lame, very lame if that's truly all you get included. Are you sure we can't use our own ringtones?
    There's a hack to make it happen (that probably voids your warranty) and the process has been partially automated. But dont worry, soon the crackers will change your ring tones for you.

    Surur
    07-23-2007 02:45 AM
  9. d1hamby's Avatar
    Here is a very lethal hack for all safari web users;

    http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/23/s...f-your-iphone/
    07-23-2007 07:21 AM
  10. JackNaylorPE's Avatar
    I don't come across alot of threads /WM palm-WX that users are chatting about not having the features needed.A2dp was the big complaint but my friend hannip made that available hacking into the Verizon wx
    .I think this comes down to the basics Jack.The future phone does not live up to it's blue ribbon so many users are finding out when viewing links that surur has provided.
    I'm sure it's helped many that were thinking of going ipod phone make there decision.
    This is a really great thread with no bull...just great lnks to real life iphone users post.
    We must not forget about the Apple fan boys that post in the thread as well.We can only hope that there denial of facts will end.
    The iPhone impresses me because of what it does with the web. If web on a handheld is a big thing to you, unless you are a phone fundamentalist, one can not help being impressed by it.

    The 5 year claim may be a bit of an exagerration in this regard probably based upon the time apple spent working on Safari. Then again, when haven't we seen vendors overstating their device's impact.....not unlike the prefight weigh in at a boxing match. But I think it will be about 2 years before we see anything like Safari.
    07-23-2007 07:32 AM
  11. surur's Avatar
    The iPhone impresses me because of what it does with the web. If web on a handheld is a big thing to you, unless you are a phone fundamentalist, one can not help being impressed by it.
    To give credit where credit is due, MobileSafari is nice. Other vendors cut down their mobile clients to make them lighter, and to squeeze web content into the small screen, and Apple obviously did not go this route at all.

    However, with Webkit running on Symbian, I would say any Symbian vendor could replicate the MobileSafari experience in 6 months. Its more about the paradigm than technology.

    Surur
    07-23-2007 07:58 AM
  12. mikec#IM's Avatar
    So Jack, the big thing about the iPhone is that it's the best mobile web browser out there? Should have been called iWeb.

    I agree mobile Safari is good. But $2,300 good? I guess that is the question.

    As for the 5 years being "a bit of exaggeration", that is the understatement of the year. And now, there are very few companies (any?) in the tech world that say their device is 5 years ahead.

    2 years, I could see that perspective. But 5? Hardly.

    PSP had a web browsing experience (obviously minus user input), and that has been around for a while. (but agreed that Apple has taken it to another level).

    I'm still waiting for the $200 non-phone iPhone Jobs mentioned...iPod, wifi, web....that pricepoint seems good.
    07-23-2007 09:56 AM
  13. cmaier's Avatar
    So Jack, the big thing about the iPhone is that it's the best mobile web browser out there? Should have been called iWeb.

    I agree mobile Safari is good. But $2,300 good? I guess that is the question.
    Mike - is the $2300 the two year cost? If so, I'm not sure it's fair to throw that number around as if other phones have free plans (the press keeps doing that, I notice). My sprint plan (i was month-to-month after finishing my contract a year ago, so the new plans may be different) cost me $5 more per month (two phones, unlimited data, etc). When I compared upgrading my treo to the mogul to switching to at&t/iphone, the main difference in two year cost seemed to be the cost of the phone. (But, of course, it's nearly impossible to figure out what a cell phone will cost you until you get your first bill. I hate all cellphone companies).

    Of course, on sprint, in theory, i could have gotten a one year contract or even no contract (but they really do play games when you try not to get a contract, or try to get a one year contract - i did that once, and they raised the cost on everything over what they told me it would be, and I spent months arguing with them. And no contract=no subsidy, so that raises the upfront cost in the comparison.)

    So I'd say the real issue is "is the iphone $500-$600 and a two-year-commitment worth it?" (And, to be fair, while the browser is excellent, there is more to the phone than that. The ipod features are also very well implemented, and, from a business perspective, I've never seen as functional a pdf viewer, to name two examples.)

    I'm not saying it IS worth it. I love mine, but I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who didn't have a lot of disposable income or who needed the industrial-strength enterprise functionality of WM or BB. (Though, again, everyone in my office lusts after mine, especially when they see how beautifully it renders pdf and word attachments, of which we receive tons).
    07-23-2007 10:22 AM
  14. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    If you use it for business, can you get your office and/or domain email on it? I keep asking this and no one seems to know. I'm going to guess you can go on the web to get domain email, since most have web mail service, but what about email notification?
    07-23-2007 10:31 AM
  15. mobileman's Avatar
    Wow Surur,

    Your wierd, obsessive, searching apple forums, even goes on over the weekend. I hope your getting paid for this. If not, it kind of borders on pathetic.
    07-23-2007 10:35 AM
  16. cmaier's Avatar
    Diva -

    Are you talking about exchange email? If so, yes, you can use the browser for OWA, but to use the email application instead your exchange server must be configured to allow imap.

    What I do is forward from exchange to a personal imap server because our exchange isn't configured for imap. Others forward to a yahoo mail account.

    There were reports in the wall street journal and elsewhere that apple was licensing exchange activesync, so push exchange mail may be coming. Until it happens, I wouldn't count on it, though.
    07-23-2007 10:36 AM
  17. mobileman's Avatar
    If you have a lot of contacts, WM is way, way faster.

    I think I would go batty scrolling through hundreds or thousands of contacts manually.

    Here's the thing...most people don't remember numbers...they remember the name (either first or last).

    Only being able to get to them via rolodex interface, while pretty, can be slow and trying.

    I bet Apple introduces a "spell-to-contact" function, like WM now has, and people will says, "Wow, look how innovative Apple is."

    Clearly posted by somebody that has never used the iPhone (but won't miss an opportunity to complain about it). You do not need to scroll through every name using the rolodex method. On the right side of the screen, the letters of the alphabet are displayed vertically. You can tap on the corresponding letter to go right to that area in your contact list. If you want to call somebody whose last name starts with "Z", you do not need to scroll through the entire database.
    07-23-2007 10:56 AM
  18. mikec#IM's Avatar
    Mike - is the $2300 the two year cost? If so, I'm not sure it's fair to throw that number around as if other phones have free plans (the press keeps doing that, I notice). My sprint plan (i was month-to-month after finishing my contract a year ago, so the new plans may be different) cost me $5 more per month (two phones, unlimited data, etc). When I compared upgrading my treo to the mogul to switching to at&t/iphone, the main difference in two year cost seemed to be the cost of the phone. (But, of course, it's nearly impossible to figure out what a cell phone will cost you until you get your first bill. I hate all cellphone companies).

    Of course, on sprint, in theory, i could have gotten a one year contract or even no contract (but they really do play games when you try not to get a contract, or try to get a one year contract - i did that once, and they raised the cost on everything over what they told me it would be, and I spent months arguing with them. And no contract=no subsidy, so that raises the upfront cost in the comparison.)

    So I'd say the real issue is "is the iphone $500-$600 and a two-year-commitment worth it?" (And, to be fair, while the browser is excellent, there is more to the phone than that. The ipod features are also very well implemented, and, from a business perspective, I've never seen as functional a pdf viewer, to name two examples.)

    I'm not saying it IS worth it. I love mine, but I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who didn't have a lot of disposable income or who needed the industrial-strength enterprise functionality of WM or BB. (Though, again, everyone in my office lusts after mine, especially when they see how beautifully it renders pdf and word attachments, of which we receive tons).
    That includes the two year plan - you are forced to commit, locked to that carrier. Every other phone does not have that constraint, even though I would agree that most have the 2 year commit stuff.

    BUT most carriers subsidize the phone/service, so to me, it's a legit comparison of overall commitment. AND you cannot use an iPhone without an activated contract (ignore the hacks), which means it really does play into the cost.

    You can buy a HTC Mogul from Sprint, and not activate it, and still you wifi to your heart's content and never pay a dime more.

    Not saying it's not cool/slick/wonderful for many. Just saying it's a pricey meatball.
    07-23-2007 10:59 AM
  19. cmaier's Avatar
    I don't think a lot of people buy phones without activating them. And, on sprint/verizon, you can't use your phone on any other network even if you have no contract. And you get no subsidy without contract. So, to a sprint or verizon customer, the only problem with the 2-year commit is that it isn't a 1-year commit. And most sprint customers, at least, do 2 year commits.

    I think the contract/activate issues are mostly an issue for GSM customers, and particularly those who travel internationally. For people who are used to having to give up their phone when they switch carriers (cdma) and who do not travel a lot, it doesn't seem like such a big deal to me.
    07-23-2007 11:07 AM
  20. mikec#IM's Avatar
    I don't think a lot of people buy phones without activating them. And, on sprint/verizon, you can't use your phone on any other network even if you have no contract. And you get no subsidy without contract. So, to a sprint or verizon customer, the only problem with the 2-year commit is that it isn't a 1-year commit. And most sprint customers, at least, do 2 year commits.

    I think the contract/activate issues are mostly an issue for GSM customers, and particularly those who travel internationally. For people who are used to having to give up their phone when they switch carriers (cdma) and who do not travel a lot, it doesn't seem like such a big deal to me.
    I'm not saying a lot of people do buy smarphones without activating them, I'm just saying you do this, unlike the iPhone. (Ignoring the subsidy).

    Comparing Sprint/Verizon to this is not relevant, as CDMA locks the phone to the network. We should stick to GSM for comparisons of the iPhone (and I should have referenced buying the HTC GSM device, not a Sprint one).
    07-23-2007 11:26 AM
  21. cmaier's Avatar
    I'm not saying a lot of people do buy smarphones without activating them, I'm just saying you do this, unlike the iPhone. (Ignoring the subsidy).

    Comparing Sprint/Verizon to this is not relevant, as CDMA locks the phone to the network. We should stick to GSM for comparisons of the iPhone (and I should have referenced buying the HTC GSM device, not a Sprint one).
    Fair enough, just so it's clear what your baseline assumptions are. It's fair to compare oranges to oranges, but a lot of people who bought or are considering iphones are coming from the world of grapefruit. Or something.

    I think it comes down to how useful a particular person finds the freedom that GSM is supposed to provide. A lot of people like the freedom but never use it. (It's a lot easier to use in Europe. I have long had a gsm phone i've only used when travelling abroad, and it was great being able to swap sims every time i crossed a border to get local tariffs). Many people need the freedom. Many people have no idea what we're talking about because they've only ever dealt with locked phones on gsm or any phones on cdma.

    For me, for both the lock-in issue and the 3G issue, I just remind myself that I'm no worse off than I was with my cdma treo 650. Now, if I had been on a treo 7xx or something on GSM before buying the iphones, I would definitely be feeling the pain right now.
    07-23-2007 12:14 PM
  22. braj's Avatar
    GSM is also handy when your phone dies. If the iPhone dies, can you put it's sim into a spare dumbphone? I would hope so. You'll save that rental fee from Apple for one thing, and you'll be able to start making/receiving calls immediately.

    BTW, if you want to go out jogging or to the beach, would you want to risk your $600 phone? Swapping out the SIM would be really important to me. Apple would be wise to make a $100 dumbphone 'mini' that works in tandem with the larger iPhone for these kinds of occasions.
    07-23-2007 01:28 PM
  23. cmaier's Avatar
    GSM is also handy when your phone dies. If the iPhone dies, can you put it's sim into a spare dumbphone? I would hope so. You'll save that rental fee from Apple for one thing, and you'll be able to start making/receiving calls immediately.

    BTW, if you want to go out jogging or to the beach, would you want to risk your $600 phone? Swapping out the SIM would be really important to me. Apple would be wise to make a $100 dumbphone 'mini' that works in tandem with the larger iPhone for these kinds of occasions.
    According to posters on howardforums and elsewhere, you can indeed remove the sim from your iphone and place it in a "beach phone." Voice and text work. It's the reverse that is the problem (sim from another phone into the iphone).
    07-23-2007 01:36 PM
  24. braj's Avatar
    According to posters on howardforums and elsewhere, you can indeed remove the sim from your iphone and place it in a "beach phone." Voice and text work. It's the reverse that is the problem (sim from another phone into the iphone).
    That's good news, I hadn't heard one way or the other. A mini phone with an easy to remove SIM card (maybe with a built-in reset pin in a slot (like a toothpick from Swiss army knives) would be a smart product IMO. just something that does voice, text and music. One big issue with GSM phones IMO is that manufacturers haven't leveraged this enough. Give a Macbook a dedicated, easily accessable SIM slot as well while they're at it.
    07-23-2007 01:48 PM
  25. cmaier's Avatar
    The problem is that the American carriers want final say on every device on their network. This is what google and at&t are currently haggling with the fcc about with the 700MHz auction.

    Let's hope google gets its way.
    07-23-2007 02:00 PM
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