1. llarson's Avatar
    Not keeping score, but always interesting to see when people spout one thing, then get ka-powed with the facts.
    Afariad of being KA-POWED yourself.
    07-18-2007 12:01 PM
  2. llarson's Avatar
    God that was funny Even if you like the iPhone you have to appreciate that.
    But this guy seems to be of the same mind frame as many here.

    Are you guys really so filled with hate and loathing of a phone like this guy is to have spent hours developing a site like this.

    WOW!

    Everyone likes to throw out the phrase "Fan Boy" for an iPHONE fanatic.

    For you guys here like Mikec, CountChocula, Tirik and Surur how about "Militant-Loathers" for you iPHONE haters.
    07-18-2007 12:21 PM
  3. braj's Avatar
    But this guy seems to be of the same mind frame as many here.

    Are you guys really so filled with hate and loathing of a phone like this guy is to have spent hours developing a site like this.

    WOW!

    Everyone likes to throw out the phrase "Fan Boy" for an iPHONE fanatic.

    For you guys here like Mikec, CountChocula, Tirik and Surur how about "Militant-Loathers" for you iPHONE haters.
    You have no sense of humor. I have absolutely no hate or loathing for the iPhone, it was just funny.
    07-18-2007 12:35 PM
  4. braj's Avatar
    Afariad of being KA-POWED yourself.
    wow, you sure told him
    07-18-2007 12:35 PM
  5. JackNaylorPE's Avatar
    That's just speculation. The Palm commercial software is a testament that there is a market for mobile applications. And seeing that the iPhone charts new ground with UI there are lots of compelling uses for 3rd party apps. Especially considering the iPhone didn't ship with an astoundingly large number of native apps.
    What is speculation ? Not sure which part you are addressing.

    1. That Apple announced that they will provide support for Web 2.0 3rd party apps

    [http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geu6PRTJ.../11iphone.html
    [/B]

    Apple today announced that its revolutionary iPhone will run applications created with Web 2.0 Internet standards when it begins shipping on June 29. Developers can create Web 2.0 applications which look and behave just like the applications built into iPhone, and which can seamlessly access iPhones services, including making a phone call, sending an email and displaying a location in Google Maps. Third-party applications created using Web 2.0 standards can extend iPhones capabilities without compromising its reliability or security.
    http://www.tuaw.com/2007/06/11/apple...pps-for-iphone

    it was revealed that the iPhone will allows 3rd party apps which:

    look and behave just like the applications built into iPhone, and which can seamlessly access iPhone's services, including making a phone call, sending an email and displaying a location in Google Maps. Third-party applications created using Web 2.0 standards can extend iPhone's capabilities without compromising its reliability or security.
    2. That many of our beloved Treo apps can be replaced by web pages....examples previously given.
    07-18-2007 01:27 PM
  6. llarson's Avatar
    wow, you sure told him
    your validation is comforting Braj.
    07-18-2007 01:33 PM
  7. llarson's Avatar
    Originally Posted by braj View Post
    That's just speculation. The Palm commercial software is a testament that there is a market for mobile applications. And seeing that the iPhone charts new ground with UI there are lots of compelling uses for 3rd party apps. Especially considering the iPhone didn't ship with an astoundingly large number of native apps.
    It is also a testament to the fact that many 3rd party apps cause serious stability issues with the PALM OS.

    Through out my years of using Palm OS based devices I found many apps to cause serious user stability issues.

    With my last Treo I had to stick with just Snapper Mail, which caused some issues but was such a great mail app I lived with it, and KINOMA.

    The more you add the more problems you have and less productive the phone is.

    Now th iPHONE has gone to far the other way in my opinion so there needs to be a balance somewhere between the two.

    If not the iPHONE will soon lose out to other developers.
    07-18-2007 01:46 PM
  8. JackNaylorPE's Avatar
    Its funny that you are so obsessed with the significance of iPhone sales, when you dont even know how Treo's are selling.

    FYI in the last 12 months around 2.5 million Treo's were sold to consumers. A bit more than 500 000. I guess 5 times more people than you thought thinks the Treo comes close to what they want, and some of those probably want it to do even more.

    Surur
    here we go again.....what no X-Box, PSP references ? Please tell us what model Treo has sold substantially more than 500,000 units in a single fiscal year. No, not 650's + 680's + 700's + 750's + 780's whatever. One single model. Oh and lest not forget that you neglected to pull out world wide sales from your totals. As of yet, the iPhone is limited to US sales only.

    Let's compare apples to apples, not apples to fruit baskets. And no, the different storage sizes don't count....unless you want to say the Tros models witha nd without a camera count too....and different Treo colors count too. And yes, for once, include a published reference. And yes, if ya do manage for find a model which breaks to 500,000 unit barrier, be sure and use my mile run analogy to present just how fast they sold. Maybe ya can break 33 feet this time while the iPhone completes the mile.

    And yet again we get the tactic of ignoring the subject and trying to divert attention from failure to prove ya point to some minor semantic issue. The iPhone is the very first model.....if ya want to be fair, compare it to sales of the 1st Treo model. How many are sitting in the wings waiting to see how it falls out ? or remembering that it took 2 or 3 tries to get the iPod the 1200 pound gorilla it is today ? I can't exactly recall an incident of walking into my local AT&T store and being told...."no sorry, we can get you one, we have over 1,000 people waiting".

    At this point in time, it's a single model. Ya wanne talk model line sales versus model sales maybe we can have that discussion in 3rd quarter.....wall street projecting 12 million sales of the mini iPhone.
    07-18-2007 01:52 PM
  9. braj's Avatar
    That many of our beloved Treo apps can be replaced by web pages....examples previously given.
    Not all apps can be replaced by web pages. It's just not the same thing. Primarily the calendar is a big disappointment on the iPhone (to me) and I would want/need a local app for that. What if you have no net connection? Also if you have to download the web apps via EDGE you aren't always going to have the best experience. Not to mention games would be more robust if they were native (yeah, so what, I like games).
    07-18-2007 01:55 PM
  10. braj's Avatar

    At this point in time, it's a single model.
    Technically it is two models.
    07-18-2007 01:57 PM
  11. llarson's Avatar
    Not all apps can be replaced by web pages. It's just not the same thing. Primarily the calendar is a big disappointment on the iPhone (to me) and I would want/need a local app for that. What if you have no net connection? Also if you have to download the web apps via EDGE you aren't always going to have the best experience. Not to mention games would be more robust if they were native (yeah, so what, I like games).
    I agree and I think, hope, Apple is working on some much needed updates and additions.

    My hope is that in the future we will see thrid party apps for the iPHONE that have to go through a set of Apple based tests to get a seal of approval.

    I think this will cost $$$ and so we might avoid a lot of the stability issues we see with Palm based apps.

    As a user of a first generation device I will wait a time to see what they come up with.

    After all I knew what was coming...
    07-18-2007 01:59 PM
  12. JackNaylorPE's Avatar
    Jack, you've been pwned.
    Dude, he's not even in the game. The iPhone is a model. You wanna argue how good your phone model of choice is doing, you list sales for the particular model, not the model line.

    Does one argue against Treo sales by listing all devices sold by blackberry including the ones that don't even have phones ? Why not Nokia.

    Does one argue that the Toyota Camry wasn't the best selling car in America by arguing how many cars GM sold worldwide ?

    Does one argue about Wii success in the marketplace by listing all sales of PS1, PS2 and PS3 combined ?

    If you wanna argue about who hit the most home runs, you don't compare A-Rod with the Cincinnatti Reds. We have one guy prancing about feeling all good about himself, with you right in step saying A-Rod's 32 home runs sucks because the Reds hit 132 home runs. Yeah Dunn has 25 and Griffey ahs 24 but the only number that counts is the guy who hit 32. You don't get to add Dunn, Griffey and all of their teammates together when asked who is the MLB HR Leader.
    07-18-2007 02:07 PM
  13. llarson's Avatar
    Dude, he's not even in the game. The iPhone is a model. You wanna argue how good your phone model of choice is doing, you list sales for the particular model, not the model line.

    Does one argue against Treo sales by listing all devices sold by blackberry including the ones that don't even have phones ? Why not Nokia.

    Does one argue that the Toyota Camry wasn't the best selling car in America by arguing how many cars GM sold ?

    Does one argue about Wii success in the marketplace by listing all sales of PS1, PS2 and PS3 combined ?

    If you wanna argue about who hit the most home runs, you don't compare A-Rod with the Cincinnatti Reds. We have one guy prancing about feeling all good about himself, with you right in step saying A-Rod's 32 home runs sucks because the Reds hit 132 home runs. Yeah Dunn has 25 and Griffey ahs 24 but the only number that counts is the guy who hit 32. You don't get to add Dunn, Griffey and all of their teammates together when asked who is the MLB HR Leader.
    Mikec won't and can't hear you. I wpould take his "PWNED" comments for what they are.
    07-18-2007 02:21 PM
  14. JackNaylorPE's Avatar
    Do people just make up numbers? It surely is impressive that the iPhone did 1/5 of Palm's whole business in one weekend, why the need to exaggerate past that? It will be interesting to see how long it takes Apple to sell 2.5 million iPhones.
    Subject is not one company's total business versus another. It's the sales of one particular model versus that of any other particular model. To determine who has the most popular phone, one needs to look at model sales not sales of an entire line. Otherwise we'd be talking about RIM instead of Palm.

    Off the top of my head, there are currently 6 Treo models actively being sold. I came up with the number by giving Palm the benefit of the doubt and dividing 3 million Treos by 6 (I guessed 575k per quarter x 4 and rounded way up) . No, not at all scientific and prolly subject to variation by market choices but it's all we got with the data at hand.

    I also find it ironic regarding the complaints of Apple not releasing sales figures.....I don't see Palm doing it either outside their quarterly fiscal reports but they still don't do model by model breakdowns.
    07-18-2007 02:23 PM
  15. JackNaylorPE's Avatar
    Technically it is two models.
    So the Treo with and without a camera is two models then. The Treo in white , crimson, orange etc is a separate model then .....
    07-18-2007 02:25 PM
  16. mikec#IM's Avatar
    Afariad of being KA-POWED yourself.
    I fear nothing...I have my boomstick.
    07-18-2007 02:26 PM
  17. mikec#IM's Avatar
    But this guy seems to be of the same mind frame as many here.

    Are you guys really so filled with hate and loathing of a phone like this guy is to have spent hours developing a site like this.

    WOW!

    Everyone likes to throw out the phrase "Fan Boy" for an iPHONE fanatic.

    For you guys here like Mikec, CountChocula, Tirik and Surur how about "Militant-Loathers" for you iPHONE haters.
    When have I said I hate the iPhone? Evidence please...don't spout out my opinions without some backup.

    On the contrary, I have said a lot of good about it.
    07-18-2007 02:28 PM
  18. mikec#IM's Avatar
    What is speculation ? Not sure which part you are addressing.

    1. That Apple announced that they will provide support for Web 2.0 3rd party apps

    [http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geu6PRTJ.../11iphone.html
    [/B]



    http://www.tuaw.com/2007/06/11/apple...pps-for-iphone



    2. That many of our beloved Treo apps can be replaced by web pages....examples previously given.

    There is no "web 2.0 standard". It's a blanket term that covers a collection of protocols.
    07-18-2007 02:30 PM
  19. JackNaylorPE's Avatar
    Not all apps can be replaced by web pages. It's just not the same thing. Primarily the calendar is a big disappointment on the iPhone (to me) and I would want/need a local app for that. What if you have no net connection? Also if you have to download the web apps via EDGE you aren't always going to have the best experience. Not to mention games would be more robust if they were native (yeah, so what, I like games).
    No one said all apps.....just most things people use. I gave the example by taking the most popular apps in the "6 most essential treo apps" thread. Though I have many useful apps, I can safely so I often go a month w/o using most of them.

    I also have no problem with EDGE and don't see how it's an advantage where their is no infrastructure for anything else....and that's the case over 95% of the US. I'm in the nations 22nd largest major metro area....no 3G here. Closest spot is about 12 miles away and it's a tiny one....and it's not my carrier.

    It's not a device that will fill everyone's needs....heck it doesn't fill my own. But I don't feel the need to trash it because it I made a different choice. To many people, with their set of needs, nothing else comes close. ....and given that set of needs, I have to agree with them. The internet experience is simply amazing for handheld tho I credit Safari more than the hardware.
    07-18-2007 02:32 PM
  20. mikec#IM's Avatar
    It is also a testament to the fact that many 3rd party apps cause serious stability issues with the PALM OS.

    Through out my years of using Palm OS based devices I found many apps to cause serious user stability issues.

    With my last Treo I had to stick with just Snapper Mail, which caused some issues but was such a great mail app I lived with it, and KINOMA.

    The more you add the more problems you have and less productive the phone is.

    Now th iPHONE has gone to far the other way in my opinion so there needs to be a balance somewhere between the two.

    If not the iPHONE will soon lose out to other developers.
    "Through out my years of using Palm OS based devices I found many apps to cause serious user stability issues."

    I agree with this statement so much I could hug you (sorry for the visual). Palm OS and apps are as unstable as a 3 year old after 10 pixies sitx.
    07-18-2007 02:32 PM
  21. JackNaylorPE's Avatar
    There is no "web 2.0 standard". It's a blanket term that covers a collection of protocols.
    Point being ? If the device support 3rd party programs based upon "a blanket term that covers a collection of protocols, then it supports 3rd party programs.
    07-18-2007 02:33 PM
  22. braj's Avatar
    22nd largest major metro area? Is that Wyoming or something ?
    07-18-2007 02:35 PM
  23. mikec#IM's Avatar
    Dude, he's not even in the game. The iPhone is a model. You wanna argue how good your phone model of choice is doing, you list sales for the particular model, not the model line.

    Does one argue against Treo sales by listing all devices sold by blackberry including the ones that don't even have phones ? Why not Nokia.

    Does one argue that the Toyota Camry wasn't the best selling car in America by arguing how many cars GM sold ?

    Does one argue about Wii success in the marketplace by listing all sales of PS1, PS2 and PS3 combined ?

    If you wanna argue about who hit the most home runs, you don't compare A-Rod with the Cincinnatti Reds. We have one guy prancing about feeling all good about himself, with you right in step saying A-Rod's 32 home runs sucks because the Reds hit 132 home runs. Yeah Dunn has 25 and Griffey ahs 24 but the only number that counts is the guy who hit 32. You don't get to add Dunn, Griffey and all of their teammates together when asked who is the MLB HR Leader.
    Jack,

    You both are spinning accordingly and presenting your side.

    (I am not arguing the iPhone sold more than any other phone during the release weekend; again, there has never been an event like that).

    I think the issue is comparing a weekend to an annual basis.

    Let's see how many "Treos", Blackberries" and "HTC"s sell in 2007 and 2008, and how many "iPhone", and then compare.

    I'm not saying Apple won't be huge - I'm just saying you have to be on the same page. (arguing different models and stuff is a red herring).
    07-18-2007 02:38 PM
  24. braj's Avatar
    But I don't feel the need to trash it because it I made a different choice.
    Neither do I.
    07-18-2007 02:38 PM
  25. mikec#IM's Avatar
    Mikec won't and can't hear you. I wpould take his "PWNED" comments for what they are.
    As you can see, I responded.

    Now you've been pwned, again.
    07-18-2007 02:39 PM
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