1. surur's Avatar
    Its obvious to oalvarez if the iPhone does not have it its an unimportant feature, but if iPhone does have it, its great.

    For example, I understand in the browser you cant:
    set a home page
    chose font size
    switch the loading of pictures of (important on an GPRS/edge device)

    In the e-mail client you cant:
    force it to only donwload a portion of the e-mail
    force it to not download attachments.

    I bet oalvarez does not think these (simple) features are important in any way.

    Surur
    07-14-2007 02:51 AM
  2. tirk's Avatar
    This makes no sense...
    Well get one of the others to explain it to you; we can't keep going back just because you can't keep up.
    07-14-2007 03:29 AM
  3. oalvarez's Avatar
    Its obvious to oalvarez if the iPhone does not have it its an unimportant feature, but if iPhone does have it, its great.

    For example, I understand in the browser you cant:
    set a home page
    chose font size
    switch the loading of pictures of (important on an GPRS/edge device)

    In the e-mail client you cant:
    force it to only donwload a portion of the e-mail
    force it to not download attachments.

    I bet oalvarez does not think these (simple) features are important in any way.

    Surur
    i'll be more than glad to address your points.

    -i think it's silly that one doesn't have the choice of setting a home page (or not). as a user i also know that any web address i might want to frequent regularly is contained in my favorites area. again, one should be able to set a home page.

    -font size in a browser: upon being dowloaded the entire web page fits on the screen. would i want to be able to make it even smaller or bigger (hence not being able to see certain portions of the page) automatically? not sure. one can do that by shrinking or expanding the page with their fingers. if i've understood you correctly, i personally haven't found a need for it.

    -switch the loading of pics on a page: i think that one should be able to choose whether they want to increase download speeds by omitting pictures. having said that, i personally like to view the images on the web page and i have found the EDGE speeds to be acceptable more times than not. again, one should be able to choose.

    email related items:

    since i use it for personal use (home email, no work whatsoever) neither one of those matter to me. as for attachments, i think that one might have to set outlook to download the attachments automatically in order for the handheld to be able to see them. in all honesty, i'm not sure. should one be able to attach an item to an email, from the email screen? yes, absolutely.

    i'll even add one of my own: one should be able to minimize the keyboard prior to either cancelling or completing typing. there is no way to do this. i find that it hides portions of the screen that one might want to access before actually sending the message.


    i have answered your areas of concern, and honestly. if the iPhone doesn't have certain features that does not make them unimportant.

    now, back to my question:

    is it really all that difficult to tap the screen to get the vital "incoming or outgoing" call information? and how much time does that actually take? i make and receive calls, i know if i have spoken to that person or not. if it's a missed call it's in red.

    is it a truly important feature that it is missing or are some of you simply nit-picking it to death as you have?
    07-14-2007 10:05 AM
  4. Kupe#WP's Avatar
    is it really all that difficult to tap the screen to get the vital "incoming or outgoing" call information? and how much time does that actually take? i make and receive calls, i know if i have spoken to that person or not. if it's a missed call it's in red.

    is it a truly important feature that it is missing or are some of you simply nit-picking it to death as you have?
    It's a common feature, found on nearly every phone in the industry - including one of the worst phones ever: the moto T720. It is a convenience that, when omitted, becomes an unnecessary annoyance. The lack of the capability indicates iPhone software was designed and implemented by MP3 player coders...as are several other "features" of the iPhone. It's certainly not the end of the world - it's just yet-another-example of the "phone of the future" missing some simple yet expected capabilities from 5 years ago.
    07-14-2007 10:22 AM
  5. oalvarez's Avatar
    again, it is NOT ommitted! the calls are labeled incoming or outgoing but you have to tap on the call to get that information. the information is there. i'm simply asking if having to tap the screen is all that difficult or time consuming. someone said it would save a lot of time. how much time?

    the information is there in this case, it is not missing some expected capability.
    07-14-2007 10:33 AM
  6. Kupe#WP's Avatar
    again, it is NOT ommitted! the calls are labeled incoming or outgoing but you have to tap on the call to get that information. the information is there. i'm simply asking if having to tap the screen is all that difficult or time consuming. someone said it would save a lot of time. how much time?
    If a phone has information available on it, yet requires me to take extra action to access it (over the other common phones I've used), then as a feature it is less useful. Your claim that the information can be eventually accessed through sufficient user action characterizes it more as a defect than a feature. It is simply a usability issue Apple failed to address.

    As to your seemingly important "time" metric: If I can do something one-handed, instantaneously, with a glance, on one phone and another phone requires my full attention for a few seconds (and probably 2 hands), then I would have to label that time difference thusly: AN ETERNITY!
    07-14-2007 10:47 AM
  7. bruckwine's Avatar
    again, it is NOT ommitted! the calls are labeled incoming or outgoing but you have to tap on the call to get that information. the information is there. i'm simply asking if having to tap the screen is all that difficult or time consuming. someone said it would save a lot of time. how much time?

    the information is there in this case, it is not missing some expected capability.
    Personally it wouldn't be a problem as I only get about 10-20 calls a day..but I can see it being a problem for someone who gets say 50 or more calls while they're in a 3 hr conference meeting - that's 50 swipes potentially.
    07-14-2007 11:09 AM
  8. oalvarez's Avatar
    "sufficient user action"...if that's how you want to refer to it, ok!

    i call it a screen tap. you know, like one might do on their tiny Treo screen. and yes, it gets done one handed and takes me maybe one second to do.
    07-14-2007 11:10 AM
  9. oalvarez's Avatar
    Personally it wouldn't be a problem as I only get about 10-20 calls a day..but I can see it being a problem for someone who gets say 50 or more calls while they're in a 3 hr conference meeting - that's 50 swipes potentially.
    all of those 50 calls would be highlighted in red suggesting that they were "missed calls."

    i can see the difficulty that some are having with this issue and most of those are non-owners of the device.

    whatever
    07-14-2007 11:12 AM
  10. bruckwine's Avatar
    all of those 50 calls would be highlighted in red suggesting that they were "missed calls."

    i can see the difficulty that some are having with this issue and most of those are non-owners of the device.

    whatever
    I thought the issue was, at the end of the day, how to tell how many were incoming, outgoing and missed? My bad - poor example! No problem with missed calls so it's just the other two that ppl like Pone Diva have a problem with theoretically!
    07-14-2007 11:14 AM
  11. tirk's Avatar
    i can see the difficulty that some are having with this issue and most of those are non-owners of the device
    This IS Treocentral, not Phonedifferent, or iPhonecentral or whatever, so that's to be expected.
    07-14-2007 01:07 PM
  12. oalvarez's Avatar
    I believe this to be the other devices forum where most all non-Treo devices are discussed. Do you want to argue that too?

    But you're right, I'm pretty much done with wasting my own time here.
    07-14-2007 01:35 PM
  13. mikec#IM's Avatar
    oalvarez done?

    Praise the lord and pass the tylenol.
    07-14-2007 02:32 PM
  14. tirk's Avatar
    I believe this to be the other devices forum where most all non-Treo devices are discussed. Do you want to argue that too?
    No, because that's not contradictory to what I said!

    Let me put it another way, would it be nice to go into, say, an Apple aficionados site and start saying they don't know what they're talking about because they don't use Treos? We use Treos here, but we can still have an opinion about something we've chosen not to use.
    07-14-2007 04:18 PM
  15. Kupe#WP's Avatar
    But you're right, I'm pretty much done with wasting my own time here.
    If your intention was to try and convince us that iPhone's kludgey approach to tagging and displaying call history is really useful, then you're right - you're wasting your time. :shake:
    07-14-2007 05:35 PM
  16. fkpalm's Avatar
    I decided not to buy one because i feel my treo 750 does so much more but according to usa today 95% of the people that have iphones are very happy.

    Fred
    07-14-2007 06:03 PM
  17. surur's Avatar
    I decided not to buy one because i feel my treo 750 does so much more but according to usa today 95% of the people that have iphones are very happy.

    Fred
    Apparently removing the tyranny of choice makes people happy. Thats why Utopia is communist

    Surur
    07-14-2007 06:08 PM
  18. Certs's Avatar
    It's a common feature, found on nearly every phone in the industry - including one of the worst phones ever: the moto T720. It is a convenience that, when omitted, becomes an unnecessary annoyance. The lack of the capability indicates iPhone software was designed and implemented by MP3 player coders...as are several other "features" of the iPhone. It's certainly not the end of the world - it's just yet-another-example of the "phone of the future" missing some simple yet expected capabilities from 5 years ago.
    I think this is an overstatement.

    Bob calls me, per se, and I speak to him, then go about my business. If I want to know what time he called me later on, I can easily see it because I know he called me. Because I picked up the phone.

    I could understand if it didn't say missed calls, but if I spoke to the person, whether they called me or I called them, I usually know the difference.
    07-14-2007 06:10 PM
  19. Certs's Avatar
    Apparently removing the tyranny of choice makes people happy. Thats why Utopia is communist

    Surur
    Tyranny is bad. Very very bad...
    07-14-2007 06:11 PM
  20. Certs's Avatar
    I decided not to buy one because i feel my treo 750 does so much more but according to usa today 95% of the people that have iphones are very happy.

    Fred
    Because people who own WM phones are educated enough to know that the iPhone is a step down, functionally speaking maybe? I see very few people saying "Man, this phone does half of what my Treo did" because if they did their homework, they would've known that a month ago.

    You are not wrong in your statement, and that 95% stat has nothing to do with that.
    07-14-2007 06:14 PM
  21. surur's Avatar
    Zorn
    Serious iPhone texting flaw

    Here is something I just figured out today, and I'm not sure if it's been mentioned before but I find it to be a serious problem with the iPhone. Apparantly, it doesn't take very much to fill the SMS inbox, and the phone will prompt you to delete some previous messages because the inbox is almost full. I decided to ignore those prompts, thinking since the phone has 8GB of space, it must be able to cope. Big mistake. If you ever let the iPhone's SMS inbox get "full" (whatever full means, since the phone has so much space), it clogs ALL phone functions. You will not receive any further text messages until you clear out old ones, and you will not receive any voice mail. I learned this the hard way after missing calls, voice mails, and text messages from a friend who needed a ride to the airport this morning. There's also no way to set how much space you dedicate for text messages. This is a potentially serious flaw in that if you text quite a bit, and don't think to delete old conversations, your phone will choke up on new calls/voicemails/texts.

    I've been fine with ALL the other compromises the iPhone forces you to make, but I think above all it will be this flaw that could make me sell my iPhone. My BlackBerry could keep texts from the previous 6 months and not have to delete them, I have had the iPhone barely 2 weeks and it's already got its memory filled with texts? That's beyond ridiculous.
    http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=1201579

    He's an interesting post, and I dont know if his interpretation is true or not, but the reaction of the other posters in the thread is rather scary (basically amounting to "Why do you want to keep so many texts in any case"). Its almost as if a Borg-like Applologist group think is going down there.

    Surur
    07-14-2007 06:21 PM
  22. bruckwine's Avatar
    This IS Treocentral, not Phonedifferent, or iPhonecentral or whatever, so that's to be expected.
    I believe this to be the other devices forum where most all non-Treo devices are discussed. Do you want to argue that too?

    But you're right, I'm pretty much done with wasting my own time here.
    No, because that's not contradictory to what I said!

    Let me put it another way, would it be nice to go into, say, an Apple aficionados site and start saying they don't know what they're talking about because they don't use Treos? We use Treos here, but we can still have an opinion about something we've chosen not to use.
    Yep oalvarez i think you misinterpreted tirk - he meant that you should expect treo users in a treo forum not to be overtly positive about the iPhone, not that you can't talk about it because this is a treo forum ....
    07-14-2007 06:31 PM
  23. bruckwine's Avatar
    http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=1201579

    He's an interesting post, and I dont know if his interpretation is true or not, but the reaction of the other posters in the thread is rather scary (basically amounting to "Why do you want to keep so many texts in any case"). Its almost as if a Borg-like Applologist group think is going down there.

    Surur
    that IS a serious flaw though wrt not having access to the 8 GB no matter what app you're using...of course as with everything else a simple software update will solve that in no time
    07-14-2007 06:34 PM
  24. dgoodisi's Avatar
    Overall I've been amused by this thread, but this is just plane wrong
    I believe if you add on the hardware that Macs come with standard to a PC the price would be comparable.
    Now that Apple uses Intel chips this is an easy comparison.

    MacBook Pro - Intel Core2Duo 2.2GHZ, 2gig ram, 120gig 5400 hd, iNvidia 8600 128mb VRam, $1999

    Dell - Intel Core2Duo 2.2GHZ, 2gig ram, 160gig 5400 hd, InVidia 8600 256mb VRam, $1375

    So lets see, $600 dollars more for a Macbook Pro, weaker video card, smaller harddrive, crappy 90 day warranty vs 1-year for the Dell, and that's with a display and battery upgrade to match the MacBook.

    And this is for the pricy Dell (compared to HP and others).

    The "Apple tax" is even more obvious with desktops.

    Edit: Sorry, about 25 pages behind, still catching up. Just broke rule #1, read entire thread before posting.
    07-14-2007 07:03 PM
  25. mikec#IM's Avatar
    Apple Tax....sounds so harsh...how about "Privileged User Assessment".

    It sounds much nicer.

    Fanboys love to claim Apple and PC prices are comparable, but that is just plain hogwash.

    The same is true with all their products and software.

    But maybe that is why their stock is at 130 and others are lower...
    07-14-2007 07:38 PM
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