1. marcol's Avatar
    My take,

    iphone cons
    Slow Slow edge service
    No backup battery allowed.
    No push e-mail
    No games
    No SD card
    No Slingmedia allowed.
    No tomtom
    Cant be tweaked
    BASICALLY NO 3RD PARTY APP ALLOWED..PUT ON THE HAND CUFFS


    I use the Treo 700WX with no crashing and maybe a softreset needed every couple months.
    SELL ME ON WHY I SHOULD BUY THE IPHONE PLEASE..
    leave out the pretty user interface..That selling point has been worn out and how sure the OS is.There are threads that say different for some users.

    Phil C
    I not going to try to sell on you on the iPhone as a whole but will pick up on one point, and it does relate to the UI (sorry). It's not about prettiness though. This picture has been posted a few times here:



    What Jobs is actually talking about in that section of the keynote is input. His point is that having a physical keyboard is limiting: it's always there, even when you don't need it, and it's inflexible (you can't have one set of buttons for app number one and another set for app number 2 etc). The iPhone solution of course is to a have a virtual keyboard. Obviously that's very much a component of the UI.

    The length and width of the iPhone and your wx are very similar but (mostly) because of the virtual keyboard the iPhone's screen is much bigger:

    iPhone screen: 2.1 x 2.8 inches (5.88 square inches)
    Treo screen: 1.77 x 1.77 inches (3.13 square inches)

    That has a major impact on usability. Things that you'd naturally associate with being much better on a bigger screen (video, web browsing, photo viewing) probably get the biggest benefit; they also benefit of course from the screen being rectangular (especially photos and videos/movies, which are almost never square). It's not just those functions though. The vast majority of apps will benefit to some extent. A bigger screen will display more of a list of emails, more of each mail when opened, more of a pdf document, more of an sms chat, etc, etc, etc.

    I'm not trying to say this would (all things considered) make the iPhone better for you than your wx, but I'd suggest that if you were to write a 'pros' list to go with the 'cons' you've already noted then screen size and shape (and all that this enables) should probably be in there.
    07-08-2007 06:02 AM
  2. surur's Avatar
    Our own Merlyn_3D is returning his iphones.

    Merlyn_3D 07-08-2007 01:00

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Decided to return our iPhones today....

    ...Well after using them for a week, I agree wholeheartedly that this device will change the mobile industry, but the lack of 3G as well as other current shortcomings of the iPhone just make it an easier for my gf and I to go back to our treo 750's. For one thing, call quality (over bluetooth as well) seems much more solid on the treo, as does signal strength. The lack of a 3G option was a real disappointment as well, as whenever we got anything less than 4-5 bars on the iPhone safari just seemed to stall while downloading a webpage.

    PIM functions, while so incredibly cool looking and pretty, just aren't up to par with other smartphones right now. A prime example is that when you have an appointment in your iPhone calendar with a reminder, the reminder alerts you once with a tone that's not nearly loud enough, but never seems to remind you again. No repeating alerts, no snooze, no dismissing. Funny thing is that all these functions seem to be in the alarm clock, but not the calendar alerts....what happened here apple? Also, you should be able to pick your tones for things like emails, messaging, calendars, etc.

    I also noticed that bluetooth on the iPhone was not nearly as strong as on the treo 750. With the 750, we could be on our headsets and have a wall between me and my phone with no static, with the iPhone, the other end hears a garbly voice while I would hear static.

    I have no complaints about the keyboard, in fact I loved it. It's an even better keyboard to use than the treo keyboard after you've had a couple beers! I do wish it made an appearance in your contacts screen though, so you could search through them easily.

    My last real big issue with the iPhone is really just the restricted feeling of it. You get an iphone and sure you can put your sim card in another phone and use data and sms, but everytime you call voicemail you'll get a silly text message, MMS will no longer be provisioned, and the whole point of SIM cards on GSM really seems to be lost. When you put your sim into any phone other than the iphone, it feels like all the features just aren't enabled because of this. Oh, and I don't like the fact that the iPhone won't give you the standard GSM network options that all other GSM phones seem to give you, like the ability to change how long to wait before the network forwards your call to voicemail. I had to use another phone to change these options when I should have been able to do it from my iPhone. The iPhone should just be another GSM phone, lock it if you want, but all this proprietary plan crap just stinks, both switching to it and then switching away from it. It's so much more trouble than it really needs to be.

    Also, Apple really needs to open up to 3rd parties. Imagine the kinds of applications you'd see on the iPhone when this happens. The iPhone will NEVER reach anywhere close to its full potential until any developer can write any application they want for it (just like the Palm). With the functionality (or lack thereof) of the iphone right now, I just can't justify $600+tax on it.

    I will be back, though, for version 2 of the iPhone when they put in (hopefully) GPS and 3G.


    BTW....we have two 8GB iPhones in excellent shape if anyone wants to buy them from us at cost, just PM me. I'm in the SF Bay Area.


    Maui19 07-08-2007 01:08

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I'm thinking about doing the same thing. I love the thing but it sucks as a phone. The Rf needs to get better, it needs to handle marginal signals better, and Bluetooth needs to work. You also raise a number of other excellent points. I may have to wait until they refine it a bit.


    Merlyn_3D 07-08-2007 01:50

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Originally Posted by AMSguitarist
    That's some good input and valid reasons for a return. Maybe you'll change your mind when the new firmware comes... though that won't fix the network speed problems.

    I doubt it....the cost still doesn't justify it for me, and my gf and I are both still in love with our treo 750's (about as much as we love to iPhone). I know there will be a 3G iPhone eventually though, and at that point I will definitely buy again.


    Originally Posted by Maui19
    I'm thinking about doing the same thing. I love the thing but it sucks as a phone. The Rf needs to get better, it needs to handle marginal signals better, and Bluetooth needs to work. You also raise a number of other excellent points. I may have to wait until they refine it a bit.

    Yes....I hate that I can't trust the signal bars on the iPhone. They're not a good representation of what signal you're actually getting. At one point I stood in one spot and the signal bars jumped from 5 to 2 to 5 to 1 then dropped the call.

    I'm also severely disappointed in the lack of an OBEX profile for bluetooth. I couldn't even transfer my vCard to a coworker the other day or receive one from him. Every other smartphone does this. Tethering is also not enabled, and I doubt it will ever be. What's the point of Bluetooth 2.0+EDR if it doesn't make use of it at all? A2DP should have been available as well.


    Originally Posted by awj223
    Those are all good reasons for returning a phone, except for the part about GSM network options. You know that the menu functions to change these things on all phones are just GUIs for entering the standard GSM network codes that do this, right? In other words, you can change this stuff from any phone, menu or not, by entering the network feature codes directly.

    Take a look:
    http://www.geckobeach.com/cellular/secrets/gsmcodes.php

    IMO, you should memorize these codes and forget about the menus! Who needs a crippled GUI? You'll be able to do more than your phone menus ever could using these codes directly.
    Thanks for that URL....I'll take a look as it will probably come in handy. I kind of like the GUI on the 750 though, it seems to cover a lot of the commonly used options.

    Oh, I should also add....the antenna being on the bottom of the phone is a questionable design. I wouldn't know where else to put it, but many many people hold the phone there, and if you actually go to the field test screen of the iphone, you'll notice at least a 10dBm difference between when your hand is holding the phone at the bottom versus holding it at the top. I think this is the cause of some of the dropped calls I had, but even holding it at the top the RF didn't seem as strong as the 750, which held a call when the iPhone could not.

    And apple should have released an update this week to increase the in call volume. The earpiece is not loud enough (for the phone being the killer app on this phone), and the speakerphone volume is quite simply laughable.
    http://www.howardforums.com/showthre...3&page=1&pp=15

    Surur
    07-08-2007 06:17 AM
  3. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    I'm always texting or calling someone, Marcol. Since the keyboard/pad is always there, that actually helps.
    07-08-2007 06:21 AM
  4. marcol's Avatar
    I'm always texting or calling someone, Marcol. Since the keyboard/pad is always there, that actually helps.
    People's needs differ, and there ain't nothing wrong with that

    I currently have an E61 so you'll guess that text input is important to me too, but whether an iPhone would be good enough in that respect I really couldn't say. The reviews of the keyboard have been more positive than I expected, but some certainly don't get on with it. I'd really like it to at least be sufficient for my needs (because of all the benefits I've noted above) but it would definitely be something I'd be looking to test. Perhaps by the time it comes to the UK the landscape keyboard will be available in all apps? That would be a good thing imo.
    07-08-2007 06:34 AM
  5. bruckwine's Avatar
    Slide to unlock on the iPhone is one handed as well. Holding it in my right hand i unlock it with my right thumb.
    Didn't say it wasn't - just said for me pressing a button with my thumb is easier than slidingit across a screen witht hat same thumb one-handed - I've had enough practice using the iPhony to tell.
    07-08-2007 06:52 AM
  6. bruckwine's Avatar
    People's needs differ, and there ain't nothing wrong with that

    I currently have an E61 so you'll guess that text input is important to me too, but whether an iPhone would be good enough in that respect I really couldn't say. The reviews of the keyboard have been more positive than I expected, but some certainly don't get on with it. I'd really like it to at least be sufficient for my needs (because of all the benefits I've noted above) but it would definitely be something I'd be looking to test. Perhaps by the time it comes to the UK the landscape keyboard will be available in all apps? That would be a good thing imo.
    The screen real estate is valid for entertainment (surfing, movie, music) and just maybe business (easier to read text? but then doesn't the virtual kb take up half the screen anyway when writing?) marcol, but for someone like me the real reason I first got a cellphone 11+ yrs back was for emergency calling (i.e. car breaks down, someone needs me asap)...the phone function seems to take too many steps to reach..with my treo at home all I have to do is start typing, rather than wait for a few swipes and THEN the kb come sup...I think in v2 of this thing they must have TWO buttons at least side-by-side - the HOME button and a dedicated PHONE one! Swiping is cool but not as quick as pressing "phone"
    07-08-2007 07:08 AM
  7. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    Yes, most of the time I just press the call button to get to the call screen! And I also get a list of the last numbers dialed or received. I've seen where people say you can't differentiate between which was dialed and which was received on the iPhone, only missed calls.
    07-08-2007 07:27 AM
  8. bruckwine's Avatar
    Yes, most of the time I just press the call button to get to the call screen! And I also get a list of the last numbers dialed or received. I've seen where people say you can't differentiate between which was dialed and which was received on the iPhone, only missed calls.
    Didn't know that - I think Apple will be "borrowing" a few more pdate features from smartphones then (uother than the ringer switch ) like green and red colour-coded call listing.

    As said before at least theoretically they can send updates..as malesta stated it's probably what has always held back smaller companies like Palm - the need to have it OK'd by the carriers...maybe, just maybe that will all cahnge now.
    07-08-2007 07:32 AM
  9. surur's Avatar
    Didn't know that - I think Apple will be "borrowing" a few more pdate features from smartphones then (uother than the ringer switch ) like green and red colour-coded call listing.

    As said before at least theoretically they can send updates..as malesta stated it's probably what has always held back smaller companies like Palm - the need to have it OK'd by the carriers...maybe, just maybe that will all cahnge now.
    It will be funny when their first update bricks 5% of the iPhones. Imagine 50 000 people screaming all at once.

    Surur
    07-08-2007 07:35 AM
  10. surur's Avatar
    Some apple fanboys are revolting too.

    bluesman87
    macrumors member
    Join Date: Sep 2006

    Wow...i am so disappointed

    So i stood in line for two hours on launch day and got my hopes up that this toy would live up to the hype, and i am sorely disappointed. I am blown away by the fanboy response here and how people are overlooking the simplest things that are wrong with this thing. First, safari is pathetic. No saving documents, no flash and it CRASHES all of the time. You can't listen to the ipod and surf because it crashes constantly. The iPod is decent, but it constantly has problems deciphering whether its in landscape mode or not and i feel like when i am walking around with it i have to hold it a certain way so it doesn't go into coverflow. The headphone jack is ****ing pathetic as well! Why is it recessed? None of my headphones work with it, and the belkin adapter is large and inconvenient. The call quality is decent, but so low that people are constantly tell me that they cant hear me, and i have to hold it a certain way. The mail app and the phone itself seem to be the only usable and reliable programs. The wifi on mine does not connect to some routers, and my answer from the people is that it all depends on the router and how it is set up. Come the **** on! Apple says its not a watered down and i laugh historically at this, as that is exactly what it is. Edge is a smack in the face, and unless you are using low bandwidth websites like facebook or macrumors, it takes FOREVER to load. The widgets are elementary and quite laughable in my opinion. The phone function is the only thing that seems to be without problem, and I can't even begin to tell you how 'un-apple' this thing feels to me. I had the original iPod, and remember plugging it into my iBook and everything loaded and i unplugged it and that was it. I had to download software, and figure out how to load my media onto the device because it does not do drag and drop. If apple really was testing this thing for 5-6 months, I am blown away that they did not catch some of this ****. Either they did and are playing the business card and waiting to update it to continue sales, but for those of us that are out half a grand are stuck with a buggy piece. I am also blown away by the fanboy support of this. People are defending it like its near perfect, and it is far from it.
    http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=326866

    Surur
    07-08-2007 07:38 AM
  11. mobileman's Avatar
    Some apple fanboys are revolting too.


    http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=326866

    Surur
    This is so lame. Looking around the macrumors forums for somebody that is dissapointed with the iPhone and posting it here with the caption "Some apple fanboys are revolting too". Its really getting quite pathetic. We understand that you hate the iPhone, but the depths that your going to to show your disapproval is getting a little strange.

    disclaimer: I support POS devices, Win. Mobile devices, and Blackberrys for my company. At this time I prefer my iPhone (close second is the blackberry curve).

    There are things I would like added to the iPhone. If future updates do not add them I would consider switching. It would have to be to a device with a nice big screen, with resolution above 320x240, and be thin. Also, I dont want to see any start menus, or have to edit a registry. Maybe WM7
    07-08-2007 09:22 AM
  12. oalvarez's Avatar
    Yes, most of the time I just press the call button to get to the call screen! And I also get a list of the last numbers dialed or received. I've seen where people say you can't differentiate between which was dialed and which was received on the iPhone, only missed calls.
    on the iPhone you simply press the phone button and then the keypad button. if you want to see your recent calls there is a "recent" button that shows you your missed and outgoing calls. the missed calls are highlighted in "red." i'm not sure how someone couldn't tell the difference between black or red other than the color blind. if so, there is a tab marked "missed" if that's all you want to see.
    07-08-2007 09:39 AM
  13. oalvarez's Avatar
    I'm always texting or calling someone, Marcol. Since the keyboard/pad is always there, that actually helps.
    you do have the option of never locking the device which would omit the sliding to unlock feature. then you press the SMS button, then msg button and the keyboard pops up.

    is that really all that time consuming, onerous, or difficult to do?
    07-08-2007 09:45 AM
  14. surur's Avatar
    on the iPhone you simply press the phone button and then the keypad button. if you want to see your recent calls there is a "recent" button that shows you your missed and outgoing calls. the missed calls are highlighted in "red." i'm not sure how someone couldn't tell the difference between black or red other than the color blind. if so, there is a tab marked "missed" if that's all you want to see.
    You know, on WM 6, when you press the phone button, you are immediately faced with a list of your recent phone calls, and you can type in some-one's name to search their number straight away.

    iPhone is pseudo-easy. Sure, for the general public its fine, but after a week all the inefficiencies will be very obvious.

    Surur
    07-08-2007 09:54 AM
  15. oalvarez's Avatar
    for someone like me the real reason I first got a cellphone 11+ yrs back was for emergency calling (i.e. car breaks down, someone needs me asap)...the phone function seems to take too many steps to reach..with my treo at home all I have to do is start typing, rather than wait for a few swipes and THEN the kb come sup
    the phone function takes the push of the "phone" icon...if you last were using the keypad you're ready to dial. if you were last on favorites then you could possibly call right from there.

    as for typing, if you're in SMS or email, all you have to do is press the new msg icon and the keyboard automatically pops up.

    just trying to show that it's not as difficult or cumbersome as some may think.
    07-08-2007 10:18 AM
  16. mikec#IM's Avatar
    If Merlyn_3D is returning his, that says a lots. He makes some very good points, esp. about GSM and carrier lock.

    I wonder how many more "test drive" iPhones will be returned?
    07-08-2007 10:26 AM
  17. Denny Crane's Avatar
    It will be funny when their first update bricks 5% of the iPhones. Imagine 50 000 people screaming all at once.

    Surur
    In other words, that is what you hope happens......
    07-08-2007 10:30 AM
  18. oalvarez's Avatar
    This picture has been posted a few times here:



    What Jobs is actually talking about in that section of the keynote is input.
    Marcol, thanks for this. It would seem that this would go to refute claims that he was "comparing" the iPhone to the devices shown on the media board to imply it was a smartphone like the rest of them as opposed to comparing just the keyboard and screen space.
    07-08-2007 10:31 AM
  19. oalvarez's Avatar
    If Merlyn_3D is returning his, that says a lots. He makes some very good points, esp. about GSM and carrier lock.

    I wonder how many more "test drive" iPhones will be returned?
    right. he didn't care for the lack of 3G, closed system, and the fact that there wasn't a second reminder for calendar alerts. he loved the keyboard. he states that he hopes for 3rd party app capability and would be back if it offered GPS and 3G.

    what does that really say? for him the current version wasn't worth the money to him.

    but for some reason we're led to think that it is some telling indicator of the device itself. it is nothing new, just someone's opinion.
    07-08-2007 10:40 AM
  20. mikec#IM's Avatar
    Denny, marcol,

    Nice RDF attempt, but Jobs was making a comparison to smartphones, and positioned it was such.

    It wasn't only about screen real estate, but a better virtual keyboard, which enhanced smartphone functionality.

    Why even compare to these devices, Why not compare to other phones, like razr, Samsungs, etc?

    Because his was aiming at these devices.
    07-08-2007 10:41 AM
  21. zeze22's Avatar
    Suror:

    Maybe we iPhone users can benefit from your labors:

    http://www.apple.com/feedback/iphone.html

    Also, I have sent a link to this thread via this feedback page, in case Apple's not reading.
    07-08-2007 10:44 AM
  22. mikec#IM's Avatar
    oal, it may be merl's view that he will wait for version 2 or 3 or whichever meets his needs.

    I don't think he experience is the only one.

    If it takes Apple 2 years to address these things, that is along time in the tech world.
    07-08-2007 10:45 AM
  23. bruckwine's Avatar
    the phone function takes the push of the "phone" icon...if you last were using the keypad you're ready to dial. if you were last on favorites then you could possibly call right from there.

    as for typing, if you're in SMS or email, all you have to do is press the new msg icon and the keyboard automatically pops up.

    just trying to show that it's not as difficult or cumbersome as some may think.
    Well as I've never had one I'mg going on forum posts and reviews (like Pogue's) - and sorry i meant "dialing" not typing (I was talking about dialing a number by jus tunlocking then starting on my treo in comparison). Anyway one day i shall see...but I hope that the kinks will be out then. Btw as an owner how is the battery life with all systems go (wifi bt, etc)?
    07-08-2007 10:57 AM
  24. bruckwine's Avatar
    Marcol, thanks for this. It would seem that this would go to refute claims that he was "comparing" the iPhone to the devices shown on the media board to imply it was a smartphone like the rest of them as opposed to comparing just the keyboard and screen space.
    Perhaps..but that was the keynote..on the website before June 29th there was just a sheet that had all those PLUS the iPhone in a comparison of some (not all features)...he may have been using that chart in the slide at WWDC for screen real estate (or implying it was a msartphone), but the infamous chart was certainly comparing several things in addition to the screen, and only for smartphones. Sorry guys I just think Jobs is a d**k and that's separate and apart from any of Apple's products!

    This was the corrected chart which most consumers would've seen as many didn't attend WWDC '07 (after the wifi booboo with the n95):


    Here's some other chart someone made:

    07-08-2007 11:07 AM
  25. oalvarez's Avatar
    Btw as an owner how is the battery life with all systems go (wifi bt, etc)?
    battery: beyond one day given my usage. right now i'm mainly using it on the weekends as i still carry my Blackberry during the work week. the battery life seems ample given the amount of time the screen is on given the amount of browsing and calling i might do on a given weekend day.

    and for whatever it's worth, i can have multiple browser pages open, an ipod song playing, google maps downloading and yet to experience a crash or need to reset. like i've said, maybe i'm just one of the fortunate ones.
    07-08-2007 11:24 AM
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