1. CountBuggula's Avatar
    Just pointing out the silliness of his thread. In fact, I am more equipped to comment on the 700P than he is the iPhone.......because I have actually owned and used a 700P. A better thread would have been "I don't own the iPhone, and wouldn't buy one due to these device specifications and these issues that are known about the device." However, surur tried to go the flaming route.
    Actually, the disclaimer was there from the beginning. The thread is called "10 things that suck about the iPhone" and in the first post he stated he didn't actually have one (and couldn't anyway, since he lives in the UK). He's stated over and over that his entire purpose is to debunk the overwhelming hype surrounding the iPhone and its accompanying media frenzy. He's not defending any other phone here, so bashing the 700p or whatever else is pretty pointless. It's also, like he stated, nothing new. You can go to the 700p forums and see for yourself all the complaints there if you want to argue about the whether the Treo is a piece of junk.

    If you have anything to say here that actually refutes the discussion about the iPhone, fine.
    07-07-2007 11:19 AM
  2. llarson's Avatar
    And when the screen is off, you have to look across the room, and then walk across the room, turn on the screen, and see if you have a message or if it charged.
    Do you sleep with your phone too? Mine is a tool to use outside the office. When home I can check my messages on my computer. I tend to leave the phone charging unless I get a call which when I am at home is bluetoothed to my home phone line.

    Come on people live a life outside your cell phone!!!!
    07-07-2007 11:22 AM
  3. llarson's Avatar
    You know, there is something very special about the iPhone. Its a closed system. People cant do anything to make it work any better or any worse.

    If a few people are experiencing issues, especially software issues, then these exist in all devices. You have just not run into them yet. If a few are experiencing hardware issues (e.g. poor sensitivity of the accelerometer) we also do not yet know how wide-spread this is.

    In the mean time most people are still mesmerized by the "fluid interface". Complaints will increase once that wears off.

    Interesting little fact - The Safari browser allows multiple windows, but you cant open a link in a new window. How's that for having a real browser in your hand (or not).

    Surur
    When I click on a link a new window opens? Where did you hear this Surur. If the coding is set to open the link inside the existing window then maybe it won't but that is the code.
    07-07-2007 11:24 AM
  4. Denny Crane's Avatar
    When I click on a link a new window opens? Where did you hear this Surur. If the coding is set to open the link inside the existing window then maybe it won't but that is the code.
    It does for me too....

    Don't tell me that Surur is quoting incorrect info.
    07-07-2007 11:27 AM
  5. Denny Crane's Avatar
    Actually, the disclaimer was there from the beginning. The thread is called "10 things that suck about the iPhone" and in the first post he stated he didn't actually have one (and couldn't anyway, since he lives in the UK). He's stated over and over that his entire purpose is to debunk the overwhelming hype surrounding the iPhone and its accompanying media frenzy. He's not defending any other phone here, so bashing the 700p or whatever else is pretty pointless. It's also, like he stated, nothing new. You can go to the 700p forums and see for yourself all the complaints there if you want to argue about the whether the Treo is a piece of junk.

    If you have anything to say here that actually refutes the discussion about the iPhone, fine.
    Didn't realize that you were a 700P owner. Sorry about bashing your phone.
    07-07-2007 11:28 AM
  6. KStewart's Avatar
    Actually I still love and am keeping my 750. It has been rock solid. My 650 was great too, but I waited on purchasing the 650 until the majority of the bugs were worked out of that device. The 700P is an entirely different story.
    I agree about the 700P and its appearant issues but I am one of the lucky ones that got a rock solid deal post MR. My 700 has been a dream "knock on wood" and I plan on keeping it for a while longer. I am not jumping the bandwagon on "wow" and not saying anyone with an iphone is doing so either. I think people who purchased an iphone and are happy is cool, but when they start talkin $hit about all other devices in the smartphone arena vs. their iphone upsets me. IMHO, power users don't seem to be easily impressed by a beautiful face but the low level to moderate Smartphone users are jumping ship and getting totally off on the iphone and making sure they share it with us who haven't like we are suppose to be jealous and now are devices suck. I can get an iphone but I pick to stay with my 700p because it totally does everything I need what the iphone can't out of box.

    For all in the "wow" factor.

    "Give em a rest"
    07-07-2007 11:28 AM
  7. KStewart's Avatar
    No he doesn't.....

    This is just below the topic in his first post...

    Default 10 Things that "Absolutely suck" about the iPhone. (Yes I have one)
    No, not me. This guy.
    http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=322382
    Thanks for clearing that up Captain Kirk.
    07-07-2007 11:31 AM
  8. CountBuggula's Avatar
    Come on Count, if you are really a COUNT, these types of post do no one any good.

    "iEvengelist: Everything but iPhones are impossible to use because I'm too stupid to figure out how to use them"

    Right and anyone who wants to fumble around a file directory must have no life and enjoys creating a good Hack more then anything else, GEEK!

    Post something useful or we will be forced to strip you of your royal title.
    Oh no! He called me a geek! Actually I'll take that as a compliment.

    Do you deny that one of the arguments against the Treo in this thread was that the calendar was just too hard to use? Sorry but even my very less tech-savvy wife makes appointments on her Treo every day and never needed me to show her how to do it. Saying something like that "was just too hard" is a pretty gross exaggeration.
    07-07-2007 11:35 AM
  9. Denny Crane's Avatar
    I agree about the 700P and its appearant issues but I am one of the lucky ones that got a rock solid deal post MR. My 700 has been a dream "knock on wood" and I plan on keeping it for a while longer. I am not jumping the bandwagon on "wow" and not saying anyone with an iphone is doing so either. I think people who purchased an iphone and are happy is cool, but when they start talkin $hit about all other devices in the smartphone arena vs. their iphone upsets me. IMHO, power users don't seem to be easily impressed by a beautiful face but the low level to moderate Smartphone users are jumping ship and getting totally off on the iphone and making sure they share it with us who haven't like we are suppose to be jealous and now are devices suck. I can get an iphone but I pick to stay with my 700p because it totally does everything I need what the iphone can't out of box.

    For all in the "wow" factor.

    I wish I had been so lucky with my 700P. I actually liked the sturdy feel of the 700P and was hoping that it would be as good as my 650. With EVDO and the relatively inexpensive Sprint data plans, I was pretty confident in my purchase. However, I was one of the unlucky ones.
    07-07-2007 11:37 AM
  10. KStewart's Avatar
    Oh no! He called me a geek! Actually I'll take that as a compliment.

    Do you deny that one of the arguments against the Treo in this thread was that the calendar was just too hard to use? Sorry but even my very less tech-savvy wife makes appointments on her Treo every day and never needed me to show her how to do it. Saying something like that "was just too hard" is a pretty gross exaggeration.


    Palm Treo is definitely not for someone without any initiative.
    07-07-2007 11:40 AM
  11. llarson's Avatar
    I dont own an iPhone, but the title of the thread is the title of the thread the first post is taken from. That person (like all the people I am quoting) do have iPhones, and have legitimate complains about the device.

    Surur
    Surur is a great blogger but he has proven he has a mission in life not to bring to light the shortcomings of the iPHONE but to use his postings to twist the facts.

    For those, like myself, not familier with fallacious arguments here is a small list of the ones Surur keeps pushing with his posts.

    Argument By Selective Observation:


    also called cherry picking, the enumeration of favorable circumstances, or counting the hits and forgetting the misses. For example, a state boasts of the Presidents it has produced, but is silent about its serial killers. Or, the claim "Technology brings happiness". (Now, there's something with hits and misses.)

    Casinos encourage this human tendency. There are bells and whistles to announce slot machine jackpots, but losing happens silently. This makes it much easier to think that the odds of winning are good.

    Argument By Selective Reading:

    making it seem as if the weakest of an opponent's arguments was the best he had. Suppose the opponent gave a strong argument X and also a weaker argument Y. Simply rebut Y and then say the opponent has made a weak case.

    This is a relative of Argument By Selective Observation, in that the arguer overlooks arguments that he does not like. It is also related to Straw Man (Fallacy Of Extension), in that the opponent's argument is not being fairly represented.

    Argument By Generalization:

    drawing a broad conclusion from a small number of perhaps unrepresentative cases. (The cases may be unrepresentative because of Selective Observation.) For example, "They say 1 out of every 5 people is Chinese. How is this possible? I know hundreds of people, and none of them is Chinese." So, by generalization, there aren't any Chinese anywhere. This is connected to the Fallacy Of The General Rule.


    Not that he isn't spending hours upon hours of his time looking for these post that are out there he is just representing them in a less then truthful way.

    But this is the internet and this is a I HATE THE iPHONE thread. Just making the point that as you read Surur's post and you feel reaffirmed that you have a superiour intellect, CountBuggula, just note you are being swayed by false logic.

    It is entertaining though isn't it!!!
    07-07-2007 11:40 AM
  12. Denny Crane's Avatar
    Palm Treo is definitely not for someone without any initiative.
    Oh I had plenty of initiative. From resetting the device to loading 3rd party apps one by one to determine if the issue was a 3rd party app program, to running the device with no third party apps for a week to determine if I would still get resets, skips in the music player, etc.

    Like I said the 650 was solid, but lacked EVDO. The 750 has been good so far. I simply think that something was missing from the 700P, probably post sales support on Palm's side. If they had addressed the issues in a reasonable amount of time, I would have never moved to the 750.
    07-07-2007 11:45 AM
  13. KStewart's Avatar
    I wish I had been so lucky with my 700P. I actually liked the sturdy feel of the 700P and was hoping that it would be as good as my 650. With EVDO and the relatively inexpensive Sprint data plans, I was pretty confident in my purchase. However, I was one of the unlucky ones.
    If I didn't get lucky as I did, I was ready to get a Blackberry. I am still planning on leaving Palm if this next gen Treo by years end doesn't do it. Q1 2008 is the deadline I am giving palm and that is when my contract with Sprint is up and I can get a full discount on another device. I am no gadget freak...I can stay married to one device for a as long as it takes until it breaks or starts giving me issues or an irresistable device breaks the marrieage...lol. By years end I will have my same 700p for a year and a half. I had my 600 for two and a half years...man was that thing beat up.
    07-07-2007 11:48 AM
  14. CountBuggula's Avatar
    Come on people live a life outside your cell phone!!!!
    ...Says the guy posting in a cell phone forum on a Saturday morning
    Surur is a great blogger but he has proven he has a mission in life not to bring to light the shortcomings of the iPHONE but to use his postings to twist the facts.

    For those, like myself, not familier with fallacious arguments here is a small list of the ones Surur keeps pushing with his posts.

    Argument By Selective Observation:

    also called cherry picking, the enumeration of favorable circumstances, or counting the hits and forgetting the misses. For example, a state boasts of the Presidents it has produced, but is silent about its serial killers. Or, the claim "Technology brings happiness". (Now, there's something with hits and misses.)

    Casinos encourage this human tendency. There are bells and whistles to announce slot machine jackpots, but losing happens silently. This makes it much easier to think that the odds of winning are good.

    Argument By Selective Reading:

    making it seem as if the weakest of an opponent's arguments was the best he had. Suppose the opponent gave a strong argument X and also a weaker argument Y. Simply rebut Y and then say the opponent has made a weak case.

    This is a relative of Argument By Selective Observation, in that the arguer overlooks arguments that he does not like. It is also related to Straw Man (Fallacy Of Extension), in that the opponent's argument is not being fairly represented.

    Argument By Generalization:

    drawing a broad conclusion from a small number of perhaps unrepresentative cases. (The cases may be unrepresentative because of Selective Observation.) For example, "They say 1 out of every 5 people is Chinese. How is this possible? I know hundreds of people, and none of them is Chinese." So, by generalization, there aren't any Chinese anywhere. This is connected to the Fallacy Of The General Rule.


    Not that he isn't spending hours upon hours of his time looking for these post that are out there he is just representing them in a less then truthful way.
    The problem with what you've said here is that Surur never said he was going to give an unbiased, fair review of the iPhone giving equal time to all sides. The iPhone has been hyped so much that the that side has more than enough support already, in this forum and others, so Surur decided to even the odds a little. He wasn't posting in a "less than truthful" way because he was doing exactly what he stated his intentions to be from start to finish.

    That and those exact same logical fallacies could be used to describe all the posts in here supporting the iPhone too.

    But this is the internet and this is a I HATE THE iPHONE thread. Just making the point that as you read Surur's post and you feel reaffirmed that you have a superiour intellect, CountBuggula, just note you are being swayed by false logic.

    It is entertaining though isn't it!!!
    When did I ever claim to have superior intellect? (although since I can spell superior right and you have difficulty with it maybe that's a sign)
    07-07-2007 11:53 AM
  15. mobileman's Avatar
    I have an iPhone and like it very much. I know its missing some important features and hope apple can include them with software updates. One of the things the haters (Surur) fail to understand is how easy the device is to use for non techies (this excludes everybody that posts on these boards). My wife played around with the iPhone the another night and within a few minutes she was zooming in and out on pictures, watching videos, and making phone calls. If I gave her a windows mobile device to use, she would have clicked around on it for a few seconds, then probably would have given up. People here should understand that power users are the minority when it comes to cell users.

    I really dont understand why people that dislike the iPhone spend time posting on iPhone forums, searching the official apple message boards for bad reviews, and posting any negative thing they can find about the device.

    The 700p was probably the worst smartphone I have ever used. It lagged like hell, and crashed often for me. However, you dont see me constantly posting in the 700p forum over and over about it.
    07-07-2007 11:57 AM
  16. llarson's Avatar
    ...Says the guy posting in a cell phone forum on a Saturday morning

    The problem with what you've said here is that Surur never said he was going to give an unbiased, fair review of the iPhone giving equal time to all sides. The iPhone has been hyped so much that the that side has more than enough support already, in this forum and others, so Surur decided to even the odds a little. He wasn't posting in a "less than truthful" way because he was doing exactly what he stated his intentions to be from start to finish.

    That and those exact same logical fallacies could be used to describe all the posts in here supporting the iPhone too.


    When did I ever claim to have superior intellect? (although since I can spell superior right and you have difficulty with it maybe that's a sign)
    Sorry for the typo but thanks for proving my point!.

    In many of your previous posts you make references to Stupid people who own an iphone and make not so subtle innuendos to the same.

    Again it is a I HATE THE iPHONE thread and you seem to require the reassurance that you are better then others so enjoy!

    No one ever said Surur was supposed to post unbiased opinions but many like yourself are so quick to latch on to his postings as such.

    My opinion your mileage may vary...
    07-07-2007 12:06 PM
  17. llarson's Avatar
    I have an iPhone and like it very much. I know its missing some important features and hope apple can include them with software updates. One of the things the haters (Surur) fail to understand is how easy the device is to use for non techies (this excludes everybody that posts on these boards). My wife played around with the iPhone the another night and within a few minutes she was zooming in and out on pictures, watching videos, and making phone calls. If I gave her a windows mobile device to use, she would have clicked around on it for a few seconds, then probably would have given up. People here should understand that power users are the minority when it comes to cell users.

    I really dont understand why people that dislike the iPhone spend time posting on iPhone forums, searching the official apple message boards for bad reviews, and posting any negative thing they can find about the device.

    The 700p was probably the worst smartphone I have ever used. It lagged like hell, and crashed often for me. However, you dont see me constantly posting in the 700p forum over and over about it.
    Palm devices are doomed LOOK AT THIS POST!!!!!
    07-07-2007 12:09 PM
  18. oalvarez's Avatar

    I really dont understand why people that dislike the iPhone spend time posting on iPhone forums, searching the official apple message boards for bad reviews, and posting any negative thing they can find about the device.
    maybe they don't have anything better to do and it makes them feel good
    07-07-2007 12:11 PM
  19. CountBuggula's Avatar
    I have an iPhone and like it very much. I know its missing some important features and hope apple can include them with software updates. One of the things the haters (Surur) fail to understand is how easy the device is to use for non techies (this excludes everybody that posts on these boards).
    If you already know that what you're saying doesn't apply to anyone on these boards why do you keep talking to us? Go find a forum full of non-techies to post in.
    My wife played around with the iPhone the another night and within a few minutes she was zooming in and out on pictures, watching videos, and making phone calls. If I gave her a windows mobile device to use, she would have clicked around on it for a few seconds, then probably would have given up. People here should understand that power users are the minority when it comes to cell users.
    I don't want to get into a my wife can beat up your wife argument but as a non-techie she picked up a Treo and within a few minutes was taking pictures, making and watching videos, making phone calls, browsing the internet, and playing Nintendo games. It doesn't take a genius to use a Treo.

    I really dont understand why people that dislike the iPhone spend time posting on iPhone forums, searching the official apple message boards for bad reviews, and posting any negative thing they can find about the device.

    The 700p was probably the worst smartphone I have ever used. It lagged like hell, and crashed often for me. However, you dont see me constantly posting in the 700p forum over and over about it.
    You don't have to because plenty of others already have. They've been complaining about the 700p's problems since launch, Palm admitted to them in December, we know the drill. It's not new news. The iPhone is, and everywhere I look people are trying to tell me how great it is. Yet in one place where a few people start saying things to the contrary, you get all up in arms about it!
    07-07-2007 12:32 PM
  20. mikec#IM's Avatar
    Denny,

    RTF thread. The topic says it all. If you don't like it, then create your own.

    llarsen, I only sleep with my phone in vibrate mode. ;-)

    Still, you try to explain away the use of an LED, even though I have provide a common example.
    07-07-2007 12:35 PM
  21. surur's Avatar
    llarson, nice long post. You did not cut and paste it using your iPhone, did you?

    You have put precious little effort into actually making what you posted relevant however.

    Again, what you all are missing is the significance of the quoted posts even existing. How could anyone not be satisfied with the JesusPhone, the one that's five years ahead of everyone else? The fact that these problems even EXIST is more than enough to show the HUGE hype was unjustified.

    Re opening a web page in a new window - can you CHOSE to open any arbitrary link in a new window, or has Stevie removed your choice for your own good?

    Surur
    07-07-2007 12:37 PM
  22. coolbreeze78's Avatar
    I find it hilarious how this thread is the 5th most popular in the "Other Devices" forum. Isn't there an iPhone forum? Don't you Palm/WM guys have anything else to talk about?

    (realizing both parties are just a guilty...but it is funny none the less).

    Carry on...
    07-07-2007 12:40 PM
  23. surur's Avatar
    I don't think its fair to pollute the new iPhone forum with a thread negative to the iPhone. Obviously those people have already made their choices. I think its unfortunate that it even shows up in the phonedifferent New Posts list.

    Surur
    07-07-2007 12:56 PM
  24. mikec#IM's Avatar
    Surur is showing a fair amount of internet manners by not polluting the phonedifferent forums.

    Something that is lost on many here and there.
    07-07-2007 01:12 PM
  25. llarson's Avatar
    Surur is showing a fair amount of internet manners by not polluting the phonedifferent forums.

    Something that is lost on many here and there.
    They have posted in excess of "10 things they think Suck about the iPHONE".

    I just come here to watch Surur thrash about on how the iPHONE sucks so bad it must be a step backward.

    It might not be a Revolutionary device but it sure is an evolutionary one.

    Like the Human Torch says...FLAME ON
    07-07-2007 01:35 PM
3,194 ... 1819202122 ...
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD