1. Frenzytom#CB's Avatar
    For people who are missing the point of this thread, its to deflate the iPhone hype. That is all. This thread will make it very difficult for iPhone trolls to come in here and tell us how superior their devices are. I believe it has provided more than enough evidence to show the iPhone is as prone to problems as any mobile device.

    Why are people upset that I am aggregating these here? Why dont they go to the iPhone forums and tell the complainers to keep quiet, as the mystique of the invulnerable Apple brand should not be soiled in any way?

    Surur
    Surur, I hear you and respect your frankness on why you are trying to balance the hype vs. reality but some people including myself have been burned one too many times by Palm and that somehow, I can sympathize with the iPhone users because in some ways they are generating buzz about a product that Palm hasn't done since I can remember. The reason I continue to view this thread is not to see or say who is better but that there is ignorance and superiority issues on both camps (not to mention how many buttons/egos you can press). It is hard to back Treo users including myself (though your posts' side effect often creates a comforting feeling that my Treo is great) yet flaming iPhone users make Treo users worse than Apple fanboys. There is definitely one thing Apple and the iPhone have created and Palm users have longed for are the excitement and the realization that what they have has alot of potential and promise.
    07-06-2007 03:24 PM
  2. CountBuggula's Avatar
    Surur, I hear you and respect your frankness on why you are trying to balance the hype vs. reality but some people including myself have been burned one too many times by Palm and that somehow, I can sympathize with the iPhone users because in some ways they are generating buzz about a product that Palm hasn't done since I can remember. The reason I continue to view this thread is not to see or say who is better but that there is ignorance and superiority issues on both camps (not to mention how many buttons/egos you can press). It is hard to back Treo users including myself (though your posts' side effect often creates a comforting feeling that my Treo is great) yet flaming iPhone users make Treo users worse than Apple fanboys. There is definitely one thing Apple and the iPhone have created and Palm users have longed for are the excitement and the realization that what they have has alot of potential and promise.
    I too have been burned by Palm and am not happy with the company in its current state of affairs. I'm looking for something new and better, and yearn for someone to rise to the occasion and create a truly amazing phone that can take the place of my Treo. I know it's not perfect, and I'm not holding my breath for Palm to release a killer new Treo, but at the same time I know the iPhone is not the answer.
    07-06-2007 03:28 PM
  3. surur's Avatar
    Whose really happy with Palm? They constantly drop the ball, going with the lowest end features that can do the job. In that way they are only slightly better than Apple.

    The iPhone was however meant to be better than all over phones ever made. Remember "5 years ahead"? That kind of hype is just asking for a backlash.

    Surur
    07-06-2007 03:55 PM
  4. AnteL0pe's Avatar
    Whose really happy with Palm? They constantly drop the ball, going with the lowest end features that can do the job. In that way they are only slightly better than Apple.

    The iPhone was however meant to be better than all over phones ever made. Remember "5 years ahead"? That kind of hype is just asking for a backlash.

    Surur
    The iPhone is meant to compete against standard phones, not smartphones. It is far better than any other standard phone, and can compete with smartphones on some features, but certainly not all.
    07-06-2007 04:38 PM
  5. CountBuggula's Avatar
    The iPhone is meant to compete against standard phones, not smartphones. It is far better than any other standard phone, and can compete with smartphones on some features, but certainly not all.
    This is where we run into problems. Most people have agreed on that, and I'm glad you've taken such a moderate stance, but there's still plenty of iPhone evangelists calling a Treo an "antique from yester year" and that "gosh trying to pretend that a relic is going to keep up with the iphone is just funny." (quoted from here) This thread is meant to be a wake up call for them.
    07-06-2007 04:45 PM
  6. Denny Crane's Avatar
    For people who are missing the point of this thread, its to deflate the iPhone hype. That is all. This thread will make it very difficult for iPhone trolls to come in here and tell us how superior their devices are. I believe it has provided more than enough evidence to show the iPhone is as prone to problems as any mobile device.

    Why are people upset that I am aggregating these here? Why dont they go to the iPhone forums and tell the complainers to keep quiet, as the mystique of the invulnerable Apple brand should not be soiled in any way?

    Surur
    Nobody is upset. It just is apparent that you are trying to make yourself feel better.....
    07-06-2007 04:48 PM
  7. Frenzytom#CB's Avatar
    This is where we run into problems. Most people have agreed on that, and I'm glad you've taken such a moderate stance, but there's still plenty of iPhone evangelists calling a Treo an "antique from yester year" and that "gosh trying to pretend that a relic is going to keep up with the iphone is just funny." (quoted from here) This thread is meant to be a wake up call for them.
    Hilarious Count...I was reading this on my Treo yesterday and didn't realize you wrote that. Gotta give you props for writing that...funny as hell! I am an Apple freak as the next one but some people are just tooooooo fanatical!
    07-06-2007 04:54 PM
  8. surur's Avatar
    The iPhone is meant to compete against standard phones, not smartphones. It is far better than any other standard phone, and can compete with smartphones on some features, but certainly not all.

    Which is why Jobs is always comparing it against smartphones? Why does he not have the latest Samsung or Razr or LG PRADA or Sony Ericsson music phone on there. The iPhone would have looked even better.

    I have no doubt he's gunning for smartphones.

    Surur
    07-06-2007 04:57 PM
  9. surur's Avatar
    It just is apparent that you are trying to make yourself feel better.....
    Schadenfreude is sweet.

    Surur
    07-06-2007 05:00 PM
  10. bruckwine's Avatar

    Which is why Jobs is always comparing it against smartphones? Why does he not have the latest Samsung or Razr or LG PRADA or Sony Ericsson music phone on there. The iPhone would have looked even better.

    I have no doubt he's gunning for smartphones.

    Surur
    I have no doubt either..let me put my position up front. I like SOME of Apple's products (MBP, OS X), some are ok enough (e.g. iPod - not a fanatic it's ok enough but clickwheel is tiresome for me, and iPhone UI - nice approach & idea but still want a dedicated phone button and it lacks features I've gotten used to with a treo).

    What I DO hate is Jobs' egotism and Apple's marketing hypocrisy(see slagging off of PCs in Mac ads that make Apple look silly esp now that all Macs are basically PCs with Intel chips having given up on G4/G5)...personally I wouldn't care much about the iPhone's success (apart from the entry to the market forcing ALL companies to innovate and improve) but Jobs is a kn*b (a smart, snakeoil salesman kind but still a kn*b) and it bothers me that SOME ppl (the real fanatics) worship him (take that how you want).

    It is OBVIOUS from every marketing ad they've used for the iPhone that it is designed to enter into the smartphone market - the charts were just the icing. Sure the reviewers talk about he mass market target, but what Apple is counting on is that the mass market can't tell a smartphone from a feature one due to their lack of experience... doesn't matter how many tech geeks know that the iPhone is ltd, as long as Joe Brown around the corner sees the cool ads see the cool interface and like sit. Fair enough, but Jobs si trying a double attack - high feature phone low end smartphone and it's so obvious I don't think anyone can deny it with a straight face - as Surur said why not use things like the popular Razr in their charts? It's cuz they want big business (and thus big money) too.

    Apple used to be the small guy i'd root for - now they're just the thing they claimed to fight, the new behemoth on the block. MSFT looks nice nowadays (even paying for XBOX problems whoopee)!
    07-06-2007 05:24 PM
  11. bcaslis#IM's Avatar
    I have to ask have you ever picked up and used the iPhone? I say this from the standpoint that every phone/PDA I've ever trashed is one that I have personal experience with.

    I think until you actually use one you can't truly rate it one way or another.

    From a user experience standpoint, I'd agree that the iPhone is 5 years ahead of the competition. The rest of the phones (smartphones) I've used are all kludges in how they act and respond compared to the iPhone.

    If anyone likes something better fine or wants features not in the iPhone, great. But the user experience on it really is tons better than any Palm, WM5, or Symbian device I've ever touched. This is the only device I've ever used that one week after getting it I'm even happier than when I bought it.

    Whose really happy with Palm? They constantly drop the ball, going with the lowest end features that can do the job. In that way they are only slightly better than Apple.

    The iPhone was however meant to be better than all over phones ever made. Remember "5 years ahead"? That kind of hype is just asking for a backlash.

    Surur
    07-06-2007 05:57 PM
  12. AnteL0pe's Avatar
    This is where we run into problems. Most people have agreed on that, and I'm glad you've taken such a moderate stance, but there's still plenty of iPhone evangelists calling a Treo an "antique from yester year" and that "gosh trying to pretend that a relic is going to keep up with the iphone is just funny." (quoted from here) This thread is meant to be a wake up call for them.
    That guy is off his rocker, for the most part. He may have touched on something close to reality though, it may help change the industry. Hopefully competition from the iPhone will push Palm and the others to start innovating again, and they will continue to give Apple something to shoot at. I've still yet to find the device or provider that wins hands down, all we can hope for is that the competition continues to bring us better products and services.

    Which is why Jobs is always comparing it against smartphones? Why does he not have the latest Samsung or Razr or LG PRADA or Sony Ericsson music phone on there. The iPhone would have looked even better.
    Because those arent even in the same league as the iPhone. We've been over this before, the iPhone is not a smart phone, that has been widely acknowledged. It has a feature set that is similar to most top end phones like the ones you mentioned, except that the iPhone is way ahead of them. It has a keyboard and similar formfactor to a smartphone so the comparison there isn't out of left field or anything, but it still isnt a smartphone. Besides, all of those other smartphones are marketed to the business consumer, the iPhone has not been. You can't get it on corporate plans and it doesnt support Exchange server AFAIK.

    Maybe this is a different device all together, something for the "prosumer" market that never seems to exist. Perhaps this device can’t be classified in the same way that we used to. AFAIK the classification that all the tech writers have been using is that because you can’t load software on it, it isn’t a smartphone. I’m not sure that makes sense to me either because what happens when Apple releases an SDK? Overnight it goes from just a really cool phone to a smartphone without anything on the phone itself changing? I think this device is different than others in terms of classification. You can easily compare features of the different devices, and when you do the iPhone blows away every other device for features it has, but the iPhone is lacking a lot of features that other devices have had for years.

    My point is this, if you want to trash the iphone then by all means compare it to a top end smart phone and bash away. If you wanna be an apple fan boy and compare it to a "free with 6 mo. contract" phone, go right ahead, but none of that means anything. If you dont like the device, dont buy it. Yelling and screaming about how much it sucks or how much better your phone is isn’t insightful and it isn’t interesting for anyone to read.

    Does it really pain you that someone might enjoy the iPhone, or that someone might prefer it over a Palm based Treo or WM device?
    07-06-2007 06:00 PM
  13. CountBuggula's Avatar
    I have to ask have you ever picked up and used the iPhone? I say this from the standpoint that every phone/PDA I've ever trashed is one that I have personal experience with.

    I think until you actually use one you can't truly rate it one way or another.

    From a user experience standpoint, I'd agree that the iPhone is 5 years ahead of the competition. The rest of the phones (smartphones) I've used are all kludges in how they act and respond compared to the iPhone.

    If anyone likes something better fine or wants features not in the iPhone, great. But the user experience on it really is tons better than any Palm, WM5, or Symbian device I've ever touched. This is the only device I've ever used that one week after getting it I'm even happier than when I bought it.
    You know what? I'm more convinced than ever that I never even want to touch an iPhone because people keep telling me "Oh, you've gotta give it a try, the User Experience is incredible!" when I've already told them the UI doesn't mean crap to me because that pretty UI won't actually do what I need the phone to do.

    We know they made a great GUI already. But that's all there is to the iPhone. It's not a smartphone, it's an overpriced feature phone with a great interface.

    Once Apple decides to make a phone that allows running 3rd party applications then I'll give it a try. Until then I got no need.
    07-06-2007 06:04 PM
  14. surur's Avatar
    Does it really pain you that someone might enjoy the iPhone, or that someone might prefer it over a Palm based Treo or WM device?
    I dont mind. Lots of people prefer Razr's or LG Prada's. Doesn't bother me. It bother me when a) people say my chosen device is outdated by a phone that doesn't even have 3rd party apps and b) all the other devices may as well pack up and go home.

    Both are prevalent views, just ask oalvarez and archie.

    Surur
    07-06-2007 06:14 PM
  15. bruckwine's Avatar
    I have to ask have you ever picked up and used the iPhone? I say this from the standpoint that every phone/PDA I've ever trashed is one that I have personal experience with.

    I think until you actually use one you can't truly rate it one way or another.

    From a user experience standpoint, I'd agree that the iPhone is 5 years ahead of the competition. The rest of the phones (smartphones) I've used are all kludges in how they act and respond compared to the iPhone.

    If anyone likes something better fine or wants features not in the iPhone, great. But the user experience on it really is tons better than any Palm, WM5, or Symbian device I've ever touched. This is the only device I've ever used that one week after getting it I'm even happier than when I bought it.
    I'm happy for you man as I remember you always slagging off treos left right and centre ...its your opinion of course. But I for one am not one to base important decisions (like $600 US plus) on UI or user experiences if there is no big difference (orlack) in function. I use OS X and Windows XP - is that good comparison to Palm OS vs OS X mobile? Because if it's close then it doesn't really matter - I find after the first week of using something new no matter what it is the UI is tertiary never mind secondary...it's like getting my SNES after having my NES when I was a teen..it wears off and what you're left with is function.Like a ferrari vs a mitsubishi lancer one is cheaper and less glamorous (and less user epxerience) but they both help me carry myself andd family around. Plus I'll let you guys work out the bugs so when i'm ready i can buy iPhone v2
    07-06-2007 06:18 PM
  16. bcaslis#IM's Avatar
    Well to be clear I didn't start slagging off about Treos until the 750. Until then I pretty much lived with their faults (except maybe bluetooth) because the choices were limited. The number of bugs I ran into on the 750 really changed my mind about Palm being a viable choice anymore.

    I'm not saying the UI is the only thing on the iPhone, but it certainly is the most impressive. I honestly think the UI difference is much bigger than OS X versus XP. For example, I did a "real world" version of the calamari Apple ad in locating a store, getting there, finding a restaurant (actually just a sandwich) and setting up some flowers for delivery at lunch time today. Handled an incoming call while searching also and then it just dropped back into the search where it left off. Could I do this on a Treo? Yes. Could I do this as easily on a Treo? No way. In fact the process is clunky enough that I would never do this on a Treo unless I was demoing to someone. On the iPhone I would just do it since it was so easy.

    I think that is real value. It doesn't rank on a feature list but being able to do useful tasks faster and easier than other devices will let the iPhone sell alot more than the Treo ever has. I think this kind of ease of use is completely missed by most that argue feature lists on forums like this. For the general user this kind of thing ranks as near magic.

    I'm happy for you man as I remember you always slagging off treos left right and centre ...its your opinion of course. But I for one am not one to base important decisions (like $600 US plus) on UI or user experiences if there is no big difference (orlack) in function. I use OS X and Windows XP - is that good comparison to Palm OS vs OS X mobile? Because if it's close then it doesn't really matter - I find after the first week of using something new no matter what it is the UI is tertiary never mind secondary...it's like getting my SNES after having my NES when I was a teen..it wears off and what you're left with is function.Like a ferrari vs a mitsubishi lancer one is cheaper and less glamorous (and less user epxerience) but they both help me carry myself andd family around. Plus I'll let you guys work out the bugs so when i'm ready i can buy iPhone v2
    07-06-2007 06:50 PM
  17. whmurray's Avatar
    .........."Listen to what the market needs and strive to meet those needs in as simple a way as possible," he said........
    That is not what Apple did. The market did not know that it needed the iPhone and the implementation is far from simple. One could have read TreoCentral from start to finish and not have visualized the iPhone.

    What Apple did was what Apple is known for, elegant design. Everything Apple does is elegant, from the device to the box they put it in to the bag they put the box in. One sees commitment to quality in the whole experience.

    The software is artful and intuitive. It is easy to set the clock, the alarm, the stopwatch and the timer. I mean really easy. Most of us will not even bother with the alarm in the hotel room and few of us ever mastered programming of our VCRs. I was never able to rely on and Alarm on the Treo.

    The very thought of using a phone over Wi-Fi traumatized me. Today I took my phone out of its open Wi-Fi environment for the first time. I had heard so much about how slow the phone was on EDGE that I was afraid to try the browser. In fact, it proved to be much faster than Blazer on my Treo. When I turned it on in Radio Shack it prompted me with the names of four Wi-Fi networks. I dismissed them but when I went into Starbuck's, it prompted me with T-Mobile where I have an account. I picked it, expecting to see a configuration screen. Not. But when I started Safari, I saw the familiar T-Mo prompt. Worked like a charm.

    Have never tried to put photos in my directory entries. How was one to find the proper head-shot? iPhone makes it so easy that I now put numbers in for the pictures I have; when you choose the photo, it helps you re-size and center it.

    Because I am a POS user and a Windows user, some things did not come naturally to me but when I figured it out, I always said, "Of course, how elegant; why did no one else think of that?"

    And when there is a software update, I will not have to go looking for it. It will be offered to me in a natural way. I do not expect to have to pay for features that were omitted. Google Maps on the iPhone simply blows Google Maps on the Treo away. Blazer cannot hold a candle to Safari.

    Peter Lynch used to talk about "ten-baggers," stocks worth ten times what you paid for them. Apple is one of those. Easy to see why.

    Elegance, that is what the iPhone has and what Apple does. Bash 'em all you like; they can take it.
    07-06-2007 06:59 PM
  18. oalvarez's Avatar
    I dont mind. Lots of people prefer Razr's or LG Prada's. Doesn't bother me. It bother me when a) people say my chosen device is outdated by a phone that doesn't even have 3rd party apps and b) all the other devices may as well pack up and go home.

    Both are prevalent views, just ask oalvarez and archie.

    Surur
    my view is that the iPhone is a great choice for someone whose needs are nothing beyond phone, internet, personal email, and music/media in a handheld device. i have said that future implementations of different feature sets would be welcomed but not a deal breaker for owning one today. i have also said that the current version of the iPhone will not replace my Blackberry Pearl for my business needs. i have said this from the start. i have never said that the iPhone is a better device than a Treo. i have never said that it is a smartphone. i have voiced my displeasure in Palm's inability to bring more current its Treo product line; i think they've been a very poorly run company over the last couple of years. i have been defending the iPhone for what it is, not what it is not. on the other hand, some here have done nothing but disparage Steve Jobs and the iPhone itself while associating any one having even the slightest positive opinion of the iphone as being "ignorant." they have done nothing but put the iPhone down. for crying out loud this thread's title is "10 things that absolutely suck about the iPhone (yes i have one)" but whose author doesn't even own one nor has tried one out. further, the "10 things" turned into pages and pages of negative commentary copied from around the net. it has been non-stop bashing around here (other handheld forums) of the iPhone, Jobs, and the actual iPhone owners. they'll spin their questions and responses so to make it appear/look/sound as they're always in the right and never wrong. oh well, maybe that kind of behavior makes them feel better.

    bcaslis was right.
    07-06-2007 07:36 PM
  19. surur's Avatar
    Oalvarez, feel better now that you let it all out? Now to get back to the bashing:

    webtoker 07-06-2007 03:33

    -----------------------------------------
    8525 -> iPhone -> 8525...

    As much as a enjoy Apple products, and as much as Windows Mobile lacks, I could not keep the iPhone. I have come to realize that e-mail, notifications, and data speed / availability is the most important things for me on my phone.

    No matter how much I liked the awesome interface of the iPhone, I could not live without push e-mail (excluding yahoo mail). I found myself constantly checking the iPhone and even when I opened mail, it started to check for mail again, which we all know is a slow and painful process on EDGE. There is something to be said about having your current mail already downloaded when you open mail.

    I also could not get past not having an LED for new message notification. I always have my phone sitting out and never need to look because I know the LED will change if I have a message. Another issue I had was the lack of SMS notification options. I have to know when I get a SMS due to my business.

    I had convinced myself that EDGE wasn't that bad. I was wrong, and it basically makes the browser on the iPhone pointless. Ya, ya, it has wi-fi. Anyone that has had a 3G phone before knows that 3G is more useful and available instantly when you are ready to look something up on the web.

    I will say that the iPhone is a great phone and is an awesome device for the average consumer, excluding the EDGE connection. Apple has opened the door for some really good ideas. I can't wait to see how the iPhone evolves.

    Tomorrow I return the iPhone and eat the re-stocking fee. My HTC / Cingular 8525 will have to due for now. Funny enough, I was surprised how much I missed the scroll wheel. How old fashion of me :-)
    http://www.howardforums.com/showthre...1&page=1&pp=15

    Apple is too elegant for an LED, is it?

    Surur
    07-06-2007 08:20 PM
  20. AnteL0pe's Avatar
    Oalvarez, feel better now that you let it all out? Now to get back to the bashing:
    Is it the six beers i've had or were you actually slightly witty there


    Apple is too elegant for an LED, is it?
    You mean the LEDs everyone downloads software to turn off?
    07-06-2007 08:34 PM
  21. surur's Avatar
    Not that guy obviously. Its a relatively common complaint. I've seen a post somewhere where the guy asks "How do I know when its fully charged?" On most devices a solid green LED is all you have to look out for.

    Apple has actually managed to discard usability conventions from many years mainly in an effort to make their device look good. This cant be expected to suit people who prefer substance over style.

    Surur
    07-06-2007 08:42 PM
  22. Malatesta's Avatar
    You mean the LEDs everyone downloads software to turn off?
    Don't confuse Service LEDs (a waste) with Notification LEDs (a must).

    People have gone to great lengths to even customize notification LEDs on the WM Treos (one color for vm, one for missed calls and one for email/sms). I'm just happy with a simple blinking green for all though...I'm simple that way.
    07-06-2007 08:44 PM
  23. AnteL0pe's Avatar
    Apple has actually managed to discard usability conventions from many years mainly in an effort to make their device look good.
    The battery meter is on the whole screen when its charging actually, it's pretty tough to miss.

    This cant be expected to suit people who prefer substance over style.
    try again.
    07-06-2007 09:00 PM
  24. surur's Avatar
    The battery meter is on the whole screen when its charging actually, it's pretty tough to miss.
    When the display is off obviously. Apple sure is not trying to cut down on key presses.

    Full battery?
    ----------------------------
    tjespo22

    How do you know when its full?

    brasscat

    From what I can tell, there is no "fully charged" notice. Just when still in doc, display is sleeping, press the home button and you'll see a huge battery icon. Once that's all the way green, you're fully charged.

    tjespo22

    thats what i was guessing, thanks
    http://forums.macrumors.com/showthre...to_threadtools

    You know, most phones you can see from all the way across the room whether they are charged or not. Apple's UI is sure pretty, but not very efficient.

    Surur
    07-06-2007 09:27 PM
  25. volwrath's Avatar
    Im still stuck on the fact that the worlds most expensive ipod has bluetooth but no A2DP. $600, I want A2Dp ... I also read that you cant edit calendar appointments on the iphone, but surely that is wrong
    07-06-2007 09:42 PM
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