1. tirk's Avatar
    Could there be a recall of iPhones?

    Ironically, it is this lack of real-life social interaction amongst the initial purchasers of iPhone, that meant the omission was not discovered for over a week after the launch.
    :evil: :evil: :evil:
    07-06-2007 10:40 AM
  2. oalvarez's Avatar

    -software design akin to artwork.
    -Listen to what the market needs
    -meet those needs in as simple a way as possible
    -make sure that their products just work

    as usual, Apple has aimed for, and hit, a major part of the public that just wants a device that works, not one that you have to immediately install VolumeCare, tweak the registry, and go through other hoops to do the things we geeks want
    FINALLY A VOICE OF REASON!!!!

    hallefakinluja!!!!!!

    07-06-2007 11:04 AM
  3. JackNaylorPE's Avatar
    The way iPods and iPhones are built, you can easily destroy the device if you don't know what you're doing. I'd rather have them do it and if they destroy it, it'll be on them. But there's less of a chance.
    Can say that about everything from changing the oil in ya car to replacing the battery on ya MoBo. Overtighten that nut and ya oil pan screwed.....a bit of static electricity.....

    Of course some things are more complicated than others. I modify high end audio equipment (self taught) replacing stock caps w/ mylar ones and other changes and I haven't blown anything up yet. I have built over 60 desktop computers .... granted not everyone is capable of doing those things.....other people are capable of doin things I wouldn't attempt. The article clearly states this is a consideration only for "out of warranty" units and I think that serves as enough warning that there';s a risk here if ya don't know what you are doing.

    But the point is the option will be available. The same complaint was made about the iPod and that article was one of the many results. But there will; be the Apple Option, the 3rd party option and the do-it-yourself option. Every consumer can choose what is right for him.
    07-06-2007 11:20 AM
  4. surur's Avatar
    Oalvarez, can you please get of your high horse?

    No-one has denied that Apple has made a mass market product. Many people have said that they do not want a mass market product, they want a capable device.

    Your example re the hammer illustrates this well. You may just need a hammer from the local department store, but a workman may need a nailgun (or whatever) that can do 60 nails a minute. For them the effort in learning the tool is justified, and it pays of in increased productivity.

    Just because McDonald's has found the perfect way to sell 100 million burgers does not mean I have to eat there, or not say the food at my local restaurant is better.

    You may consider yourself the man on the street, and enjoy the Iphone due to this. However, just like a McDonald's burger, popularity does not mean its better.

    Surur
    07-06-2007 11:23 AM
  5. marcol's Avatar
    However, just like a McDonald's burger, popularity does not mean its better.
    Sure, I doubt many of us would say popularity is a great measure of what's good. In my view the best phone OS I've used is S60, which is the most popular, but the best desktop OS is OS X, which isn't. I suspect that in making those judgements you'd also pick one that's the most popular and one that's not (although your choices would be different to mine).

    Not everything that is popular is equivalent to a McDonald's burger.
    07-06-2007 11:48 AM
  6. oalvarez's Avatar
    Oalvarez, can you please get of your high horse?

    No-one has denied that Apple has made a mass market product. Many people have said that they do not want a mass market product, they want a capable device.

    Your example re the hammer illustrates this well. You may just need a hammer from the local department store, but a workman may need a nailgun (or whatever) that can do 60 nails a minute. For them the effort in learning the tool is justified, and it pays of in increased productivity.

    Just because McDonald's has found the perfect way to sell 100 million burgers does not mean I have to eat there, or not say the food at my local restaurant is better.

    You may consider yourself the man on the street, and enjoy the Iphone due to this. However, just like a McDonald's burger, popularity does not mean its better.

    Surur

    have you lost your mind? you paste and copy pages and pages and pages of negative drivel related to the iPhone and you don't like it if i respond to someone's post by saying "finally, a voice of reason?" you hold the most posts for iPhone negativity known to man and now you come with this garbage?

    example related to a hammer? are you ok? that wasn't even my post!

    whoa:hmm: :shake:
    07-06-2007 12:02 PM
  7. surur's Avatar
    Wow, a post longer than one line. How un-oalvarez.

    Surur
    07-06-2007 12:16 PM
  8. CountBuggula's Avatar
    Oalvarez, can you please get of your high horse?

    No-one has denied that Apple has made a mass market product. Many people have said that they do not want a mass market product, they want a capable device.

    Your example re the hammer illustrates this well. You may just need a hammer from the local department store, but a workman may need a nailgun (or whatever) that can do 60 nails a minute. For them the effort in learning the tool is justified, and it pays of in increased productivity.

    Just because McDonald's has found the perfect way to sell 100 million burgers does not mean I have to eat there, or not say the food at my local restaurant is better.

    You may consider yourself the man on the street, and enjoy the Iphone due to this. However, just like a McDonald's burger, popularity does not mean its better.

    Surur
    Thank you. I'll second that. Olivarez, you said you "used to enjoy the Treo lineup until some other carrier offered the same feature set (that matched my needs) in a much smaller form factor."

    Well that's great that you found something that matched the very small fraction of a feature set that meets your minuscule needs, but many of us here actually use the Treo to its potential and make use of all of its features, functionality, and capability on a daily basis. Just because you have extraordinarily low expectations for a phone doesn't mean the rest of us are stupid for deciding to stick with a smartphone with much more power.
    07-06-2007 12:19 PM
  9. CountBuggula's Avatar
    have you lost your mind? you paste and copy pages and pages and pages of negative drivel related to the iPhone and you don't like it if i respond to someone's post by saying "finally, a voice of reason?" you hold the most posts for iPhone negativity known to man and now you come with this garbage?

    example related to a hammer? are you ok? that wasn't even my post!

    whoa:hmm: :shake:
    There was absolutely nothing in Surur's post that was "garbage". That was just your negative reaction to it. As for the hammer bit, replace "Your" with "The" and his point is still just as valid.
    07-06-2007 12:21 PM
  10. oalvarez's Avatar
    Thank you. I'll second that. Olivarez, you said you "used to enjoy the Treo lineup until some other carrier offered the same feature set (that matched my needs) in a much smaller form factor."

    Well that's great that you found something that matched the very small fraction of a feature set that meets your minuscule needs, but many of us here actually use the Treo to its potential and make use of all of its features, functionality, and capability on a daily basis. Just because you have extraordinarily low expectations for a phone doesn't mean the rest of us are stupid for deciding to stick with a smartphone with much more power.
    huh?
    07-06-2007 12:36 PM
  11. oalvarez's Avatar
    There was absolutely nothing in Surur's post that was "garbage". That was just your negative reaction to it. As for the hammer bit, replace "Your" with "The" and his point is still just as valid.
    huh?

    surur now has fanboys...
    07-06-2007 12:36 PM
  12. surur's Avatar
    Back to the one-liners again I see.

    Surur
    07-06-2007 12:38 PM
  13. CountBuggula's Avatar
    huh?
    Did I use too large of words for you that you didn't understand or something? I don't even know what to rephrase since you didn't actually say what you didn't get. Or I could just assume you're illiterate and just make stuff up as you go.

    Or you could actually respond intelligibly to my posts instead of acting surprised and saying "Huh?"

    surur now has fanboys...
    So you can respond for someone with your perspective with a cheer saying "finally a voice of reason" without actually adding anything constructive to the conversation but if I agree to Surur and back up what he's said that automatically makes me a fanboy?

    Hold yourself to your own standard if you're going to start name-calling.
    07-06-2007 12:42 PM
  14. oalvarez's Avatar
    Did I use too large of words for you that you didn't understand or something? I don't even know what to rephrase since you didn't actually say what you didn't get. Or I could just assume you're illiterate and just make stuff up as you go.

    Or you could actually respond intelligibly to my posts instead of acting surprised and saying "Huh?"
    your posts deserve nothing more. surur's deserved a real response which i'm sure many arround here will applaud. it is scary to think that he would actually tell someone to "get off their high horse" when he's the ring-leader of spewing garbage related to the iPhone. please.
    07-06-2007 12:53 PM
  15. surur's Avatar
    your posts deserve nothing more. surur's deserved a real response which i'm sure many arround here will applaud. it is scary to think that he would actually tell someone to "get off their high horse" when he's the ring-leader of spewing garbage related to the iPhone. please.
    As your post tend to be one line long, what do you contribute except derision?

    Surur
    07-06-2007 01:16 PM
  16. CountBuggula's Avatar
    your posts deserve nothing more. surur's deserved a real response which i'm sure many arround here will applaud. it is scary to think that he would actually tell someone to "get off their high horse" when he's the ring-leader of spewing garbage related to the iPhone. please.
    You know what? If my posts didn't deserve a response, then don't respond! Just leave it at that and let it die instead of leaving cryptic one-word responses.

    And you're still just name-calling. He wasn't "spewing garbage" he was gathering information from real people's experiences with the iPhone and relating it here complete with links and references. Just because you're not particularly happy with it doesn't mean it's garbage.

    I also responded with a real argument to what you had previously said. Instead of addressing the argument itself, though, you just said "huh", got all defensive, and then started calling names.

    Now if you'd like to address the discussion we were on, that being the fact that you personally have extremely low expectations of a "feature set" for a phone, while many others of us actually use all the functionality of a Smartphone (and thus need something more than the iPhone can provide in its current iteration), I'm all ears. But if all you're going to just sit here and point fingers and insult people then maybe you should take Surur's advice and get off of your high horse and shut up.
    07-06-2007 01:17 PM
  17. zeze22's Avatar
    ...and the spiral continues downward
    07-06-2007 01:23 PM
  18. dutchtrumpet's Avatar
    You guys are maniacs. the treo is a good phone. I like my iphone better. so will many others but not all. buy whichever one you want and can afford.

    Surur...i would love to know what your real agenda is. No one is this obsessed unless they have an objective or are simply troubled.
    07-06-2007 01:51 PM
  19. JackNaylorPE's Avatar
    Just because you have extraordinarily low expectations for a phone doesn't mean the rest of us are stupid for deciding to stick with a smartphone with much more power.
    Let em first say that I am a Treo user because I am in the "extraordinarily low" number of people who actually can justify using one. However, classifying an iPhone user as "having extraordinarily low expectations for a phone" is a gross misrepresentation.

    Definition "Extraordinary": beyond what is ordinary or usual; highly unusual or exceptional or remarkable

    The features of the i-phone are far more than what the "ordinary person", the "usual person" wants, needs or even dreams about for a "phone"....emphasis on the word "phone".

    The iPhone is intended to do five main things:

    1. Make phone calls
    2. Provide Internet Access
    3. Provide IPod features
    4. Provide e-mail
    5. Provide an easy to use interface for the above

    The 1st it does as well as anyone, e-mail it does adequately and the other 3 it does, without question, a better job than anyone else.

    What the IPhone also has done is give a big piece of the world a hard case of buyer's remorse. I'm talking about that forum active group who can never seem to stop playing with their gadget, who waste more time doing that in a week than any productivity gain they might realize over 10 years, looking to improve their social standing and get attention paid to them by running around "ooh look at my cool gadget" and thereby hoping some of the gadget coolness rubs off on them .... these people are now very disappointed when they are showing off their gadget now and getting "Yeah, but my friend has an iPhone" responses.....only recourse is to go back home, log on and blog up a storm.

    It's akin to snobby Prius owners running around talking about saving the planet and their SUV friends responding "but can it carry 7 people" ? No it can't but if you're single or married with 2 kids of what significance is the 7 people argument.

    No it don't do all the Treo can do but it does do a lot of things that the Treo does better. And you know what, Apple gives a **** about the Treo market. They current goal is 1% of the phone market and if they gave one free to every crackberry and Treo owner, they wouldn't get close to that.

    It's not about whether the iPhone is as good as a Treo.....it's about the fact that there are some 70 million AT&T customers and there's what ?....maybe 300,000 of them are using a Treo ? Well AT&T now has 3 times as many people forking up $20 a month for a data plan on their iPhones than they do on their Treos.

    I have 3 kids, a dog, a mountain bike rack, a boat, am a little league coach, and cubmaster and I am an engineer by trade requiring me to be on construction sites. You're in my shoes, where 4 wheel drive, towing capacity, room for construction equipment that never leaves the car is a "real" necessity, you buy a SUV, it makes a lot of sense.....but I can't walk around saying that people who only need to carry 2-4 people have "extraordinarily low expectations for a vehicle" ... the fact is the great majority of people don't have my needs. The great majority of people will be better served by a smaller, more fuel efficient vehicle.

    You're a roofer and banging thousands of nails every day, yes that air nailer makes sense. But Joe Husband also doesn't have "extraordinarily low expectations for a nail banger", he just wants / needs a hammer...in fact he has very "ordinary", "usual", "common", "most popular" expectation for a nail banger. It is the roofer who has the "extraordinary" expectations but I'll bet when wifie puts the "hang a picture of mom in dining room" on his "Honey-Do List", he doesn't go out to the truck and start setting up his compressor.
    07-06-2007 01:51 PM
  20. CountBuggula's Avatar
    Let em first say that I am a Treo user because I am in the "extraordinarily low" number of people who actually can justify using one. However, classifying an iPhone user as "having extraordinarily low expectations for a phone" is a gross misrepresentation.

    Definition "Extraordinary": beyond what is ordinary or usual; highly unusual or exceptional or remarkable

    The features of the i-phone are far more than what the "ordinary person", the "usual person" wants, needs or even dreams about for a "phone"....emphasis on the word "phone".

    The iPhone is intended to do five main things:

    1. Make phone calls
    2. Provide Internet Access
    3. Provide IPod features
    4. Provide e-mail
    5. Provide an easy to use interface for the above

    The 1st it does as well as anyone, e-mail it does adequately and the other 3 it does, without question, a better job than anyone else.

    What the IPhone also has done is give a big piece of the world a hard case of buyer's remorse. I'm talking about that forum active group who can never seem to stop playing with their gadget, who waste more time doing that in a week than any productivity gain they might realize over 10 years, looking to improve their social standing and get attention paid to them by running around "ooh look at my cool gadget" and thereby hoping some of the gadget coolness rubs off on them .... these people are now very disappointed when they are showing off their gadget now and getting "Yeah, but my friend has an iPhone" responses.....only recourse is to go back home, log on and blog up a storm.

    It's akin to snobby Prius owners running around talking about saving the planet and their SUV friends responding "but can it carry 7 people" ? No it can't but if you're single or married with 2 kids of what significance is the 7 people argument.

    No it don't do all the Treo can do but it does do a lot of things that the Treo does better. And you know what, Apple gives a **** about the Treo market. They current goal is 1% of the phone market and if they gave one free to every crackberry and Treo owner, they wouldn't get close to that.

    It's not about whether the iPhone is as good as a Treo.....it's about the fact that there are some 70 million AT&T customers and there's what ?....maybe 300,000 of them are using a Treo ? Well AT&T now has 3 times as many people forking up $20 a month for a data plan on their iPhones than they do on their Treos.

    I have 3 kids, a dog, a mountain bike rack, a boat, am a little league coach, and cubmaster and I am an engineer by trade requiring me to be on construction sites. You're in my shoes, where 4 wheel drive, towing capacity, room for construction equipment that never leaves the car is a "real" necessity, you buy a SUV, it makes a lot of sense.....but I can't walk around saying that people who only need to carry 2-4 people have "extraordinarily low expectations for a vehicle" ... the fact is the great majority of people don't have my needs. The great majority of people will be better served by a smaller, more fuel efficient vehicle.

    You're a roofer and banging thousands of nails every day, yes that air nailer makes sense. But Joe Husband also doesn't have "extraordinarily low expectations for a nail banger", he just wants / needs a hammer...in fact he has very "ordinary", "usual", "common", "most popular" expectation for a nail banger. It is the roofer who has the "extraordinary" expectations but I'll bet when wifie puts the "hang a picture of mom in dining room" on his "Honey-Do List", he doesn't go out to the truck and start setting up his compressor.
    While I agree with much of what you say here, you missed what I said. I didn't say "extraordinarily low expectations for a phone" a said "extremely low expectations of a "feature set" for a phone." There's a world of differrence between the two statements. Read what I said, not what you think I said. I was talking about the amount of features, or the different types of things you can do with a phone, and still maintain that the iPhone has an extremely small set of features that granted, it does really well.

    Those of us who use a Treo or BB or whatever other Smartphone do so because we need (or want...whatever) more features. We want to be able to install those 3rd Party applications to make it be whatever we want it to be. iPhone users don't need or want any of that extra functionality, and they're fine with what Apple decides to give them (or nickel and dime them through iTunes).

    Edit: Ok I thought you were referring to my last post, where I said what I quoted here. In my previous post (which is likely what you were pointing to) I did say "extraordinarily low expectations for a phone" but in the context of that paragraph I was still talking about the "feature set".
    07-06-2007 02:03 PM
  21. JackNaylorPE's Avatar
    Your example re the hammer illustrates this well. You may just need a hammer from the local department store, but a workman may need a nailgun (or whatever) that can do 60 nails a minute. For them the effort in learning the tool is justified, and it pays of in increased productivity.
    I believe that was my example . But to take your analogy along it's logical progression.....the communications equivalent of the nailgun is a land line and puter with full size keyboard. Productivity and a thumb board are mutually exclusive terms.

    Here's ya swiss army treo / fulfy equipped smartphone equivalent

    http://www.swissarmy.com/MultiTools/...product=53771&

    Here's what my scouts carry (iPhone equivalent):

    http://www.swissarmy.com/MultiTools/...product=55441&

    Like the Treo / Smartphone / IPhone argument, the 1st one certainly does more but its bulk and all those other features actually does make using the features the scouts actually are gonna use a bit harder. By providing less features / tools that scout knife is more user friendly, and the tools are individually much easier to use as it doesn't have the other things getting in the way of what I wanna do. Of course if you need that corkscrew to get the cork out of the wine bottle, well then ya gotta spring for the $250 mode; rather than the $50 model.....but I can't justify them having it.....as a business owner, I also can't justify most people having Treo's (or their smartphone of choice).

    Like all the communications devices mentioned, all of the swiss army knife tools are not "productivity tools". They are small devices intended to 'serve in a pinch" when access to full size tools is inconvenient. Scout needs to cut a bandage while using the 1st aid kit, the swiss army knife scissor does the job.... scout needs to make decorations for the memorial day parade, any reasonable expectation or productivity is going to mean he gets himself a real full size scissor.
    07-06-2007 02:13 PM
  22. CountBuggula's Avatar
    I believe that was my example . But to take your analogy along it's logical progression.....the communications equivalent of the nailgun is a land line and puter with full size keyboard. Productivity and a thumb board are mutually exclusive terms.

    Here's ya swiss army treo / fulfy equipped smartphone equivalent

    http://www.swissarmy.com/MultiTools/...product=53771&

    Here's what my scouts carry (iPhone equivalent):

    http://www.swissarmy.com/MultiTools/...product=55441&

    Like the Treo / Smartphone / IPhone argument, the 1st one certainly does more but its bulk and all those other features actually does make using the features the scouts actually are gonna use a bit harder. By providing less features / tools that scout knife is more user friendly, and the tools are individually much easier to use as it doesn't have the other things getting in the way of what I wanna do. Of course if you need that corkscrew to get the cork out of the wine bottle, well then ya gotta spring for the $250 mode; rather than the $50 model.....but I can't justify them having it.....as a business owner, I also can't justify most people having Treo's (or their smartphone of choice).

    Like all the communications devices mentioned, all of the swiss army knife tools are not "productivity tools". They are small devices intended to 'serve in a pinch" when access to full size tools is inconvenient. Scout needs to cut a bandage while using the 1st aid kit, the swiss army knife scissor does the job.... scout needs to make decorations for the memorial day parade, any reasonable expectation or productivity is going to mean he gets himself a real full size scissor.
    The only problem with this analogy is the price. That "Treo" swiss army knife costs $250 while the "iPhone" boy scout version costs under $50. The current Treo line (755 for example) is going for $250, while the iPhone is $600.

    If the prices were flipped though, I would totally agree.
    07-06-2007 02:20 PM
  23. Malatesta's Avatar
    The iPhone is intended to do five main things:

    1. Make phone calls
    2. Provide Internet Access
    3. Provide IPod features
    4. Provide e-mail
    5. Provide an easy to use interface for the above

    The 1st it does as well as anyone, e-mail it does adequately and the other 3 it does, without question, a better job than anyone else.
    And that you can do that with any device or OS...

    Windows Mobile 6 is intended to do five main things:

    1. Make phone calls
    2. Provide Internet Access
    3. Full Exchange support including Remote Wipe
    4. Outlook, Word, Excel, and PowerPoint with rich editing
    5. Windows Live (Search, IM, file transfer)

    The 1st it does as well as anyone, Exchange e-mail it does very well and the other 3 it does, without question, a better job than anyone else.
    What the IPhone also has done is give a big piece of the world a hard case of buyer's remorse. I'm talking about that forum active group who can never seem to stop playing with their gadget, who waste more time doing that in a week than any productivity gain they might realize over 10 years, looking to improve their social standing and get attention paid to them by running around "ooh look at my cool gadget" and thereby hoping some of the gadget coolness rubs off on them .... these people are now very disappointed when they are showing off their gadget now and getting "Yeah, but my friend has an iPhone" responses.....only recourse is to go back home, log on and blog up a storm.
    This is completely made up to make your point seem more valid. Are you remotely psychoanalyzing an entire group of unidentified individuals? This is just rambling.

    Who are these people who have "buyers remorse"? It's like you are reifying metaphors.
    07-06-2007 02:22 PM
  24. jlczl's Avatar
    In the iPhone vs. other smartphone's case, the tool with more options costs LESS than the one with less options! Would you pay $500 for the tool that according to your own example should only cost $50? Some people might but I certainly won't.
    07-06-2007 02:31 PM
  25. surur's Avatar
    For people who are missing the point of this thread, its to deflate the iPhone hype. That is all. This thread will make it very difficult for iPhone trolls to come in here and tell us how superior their devices are. I believe it has provided more than enough evidence to show the iPhone is as prone to problems as any mobile device.

    Why are people upset that I am aggregating these here? Why dont they go to the iPhone forums and tell the complainers to keep quiet, as the mystique of the invulnerable Apple brand should not be soiled in any way?

    Surur
    07-06-2007 03:01 PM
3,194 ... 1415161718 ...
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD