1. mikec#IM's Avatar
    you questioned Goldman Sachs' integrity in regards to their 700,000 sales estimate. actually, you said they had lost their integrity.

    given the 1mm estimates that are circulating, are you going to grant them their integrity back? or were they so heineously wrong with their level?
    Well, I think most investment banks have lost thier integrity, so I actually wrote my view in reverse. I still think them pumping up Apple pays dividends in their other business.

    While the research and investments sides are supposed to be separate, I know how flawed this works in practice.

    With each passing day, they get closer to the mark. I guess I will wait for Apple's 10-K and see what comes of that.

    If they are selling that many, then good for them. I just think there a little exaggeration going on...

    Apple is targeting 10M iPhones by 2008. Some analysts say it may hit 45M in two years.

    (By means of comparison, they estimate 91M laptop computers sold this year, growing to 137M in 2010. Let's three-split the difference and say 107M in 2008.)

    950M cell phones sold in the 2006 world market....Apple's target 1% of the market (10M) - how do you get there with only one carrier in the US and two in Europe?

    No doubt, iPhone is a kick in the pants for the industry. I think if the had issues unlocked phone and also CDMA versions on Sprint and Verizon, they would make the 10M...but given the current structure, I have to wonder (unless Europe goes hog wild and by them by the truckload.)

    Not saying this isn't possible, just trying to make the projections work.
    07-05-2007 12:30 PM
  2. surur's Avatar
    The refrain I have been hearing these past few weeks has been "I would give up third party apps for a stable, reliable device." Well, it does not look like the iphone is living up to its side of the deal.

    Surur
    07-05-2007 12:32 PM
  3. jlczl's Avatar
    Oalvarez:

    In the past you've been very critical of the size of many smartphones. Can you comment on the feel and size of the iPhone compared to your Pearl? TIA
    07-05-2007 12:54 PM
  4. JackNaylorPE's Avatar
    Apple was smart to recognize they needed something very slick & pretty (even if it lacked many standard features on other smartphones) to grab the nontechie masses.
    Apple also recognizes that:

    1. There are "nontechie masses".
    2. There are no "techie masses". While very vocal, the techies numbers are nothing to get excited about.

    A non techie wants to hang a picture on a wall, he will go out and buy a hammer. A techie will go out and buy a Binford 2000 air hammer with 2.4 cuft pnuematic chamber, 300 nail cartridge capacity, adjustable spring trigger blah blah blah. The first guy gets home hangs his piture and watches the baseball game 2 minutes later while the first guy is still RTFM'ing trying to figure out how to set it up.
    07-05-2007 12:55 PM
  5. JackNaylorPE's Avatar
    How about the $88 to replace your iPhone battery with a "3 day" turnaround? Don't fret, they'll rent you an iPhone for $30 in the meantime :o

    Apple launches battery replacement program for iPhone
    Or wait for this article to be updated:

    http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1835131,00.asp
    07-05-2007 01:00 PM
  6. oalvarez's Avatar
    Oalvarez, are you implying either I or those posters are making up those threads? DESPITE your own experience you are going to have to accept the device does crash, and for some people quite a lot.

    Surur

    nope, i believe them all. in all honesty i really only care about my experience. that's why i went out and bought one so i could see for myself what was, and what wasn't.
    07-05-2007 01:08 PM
  7. oalvarez's Avatar
    Oalvarez:

    In the past you've been very critical of the size of many smartphones. Can you comment on the feel and size of the iPhone compared to your Pearl? TIA
    to be clear, i have been critical of consumer choices (e.g., given the same device features and user needs) in that i don't understand why someone would prefer big and bulky over slim and more trim. having said that, we've seen a large number of individuals here at TreoCentral actually make that type of switch.

    as for the feel and size of the iPhone and how it compares to that of the Pearl:

    size: the iPhone is less thick, about 3/8in wider, and about 1/2in. taller. you can convert the measurements into volume and create more drastic differences i'm sure. either way it doesn't matter all that much to me.

    feel: the iPhone feels much more thin than the Pearl in hand. it also feels more substantial as it does take up more hand space. the Pearl has a cheap feel to it, perhaps it's due to the materials and lesser weight. the Pearl is easy to manipulate in hand and in fingers, the iPhone less so (you can toss the Pearl around in your hands, it is quite light). in pocket there is only a marginal difference between the two due to the slim design of both devices. the iPhone feels much less heavy and bulky than my Treos of old (forget pocketing a 6600!! as i once did.....for the record, i don't carry any of these on my waist and i will never do so). the iPhone feels extremely solid and it does have a feeling of quality given the aluminum back and glass front. the base also feels solid given the hard plastic cap that serves as the speaker and antenna cover.

    the biggest difference (and one that many might forget) is how "seemless" the device feels. there are no real protruding buttons, no flywheels/jogwheels/5way buttons....NONE when you really think about it....it really is a work of art from a design perspective.

    regards
    07-05-2007 01:30 PM
  8. mobileman's Avatar
    For the past week I've been using a iPhone along side my curve to see which one I like better. After this short test period I have come to a few conclusions....

    1. The blackberry does email, IM (none for iPhone yet),and makes phone calls better.

    2. I still prefer to use the iPhone.


    I actually think I can type far faster now on the iPhone than I could on the curve. The screen just blows my mind away (my coworkers 8125 win Mobile device looks like ancient technology).

    If you like web browsing on your phone, nothing comes close. (I can care less about flash support).

    Apple needs a better email client, add iChat (jivetalk is coming soon though), and pump up the volume on phone calls a little, and I will be very happy.
    07-05-2007 01:46 PM
  9. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    The way iPods and iPhones are built, you can easily destroy the device if you don't know what you're doing. I'd rather have them do it and if they destroy it, it'll be on them. But there's less of a chance.



    Or wait for this article to be updated:

    http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1835131,00.asp
    07-05-2007 01:48 PM
  10. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    For the past week I've been using a iPhone along side my curve to see which one I like better. After this short test period I have come to a few conclusions....

    1. The blackberry does email, IM (none for iPhone yet),and makes phone calls better.

    2. I still prefer to use the iPhone.


    I actually think I can type far faster now on the iPhone than I could on the curve. The screen just blows my mind away (my coworkers 8125 win Mobile device looks like ancient technology).

    If you like web browsing on your phone, nothing comes close. (I can care less about flash support).

    Apple needs a better email client, add iChat (jivetalk is coming soon though), and pump up the volume on phone calls a little, and I will be very happy.
    From your post, it actually makes the Curve look more useful. Read again what you wrote.
    07-05-2007 01:54 PM
  11. mobileman's Avatar
    From your post, it actually makes the Curve look more useful. Read again what you wrote.

    I know, the curve is more useful, I still prefer the iPhone.
    07-05-2007 02:01 PM
  12. jlczl's Avatar
    /\ /\ Classic case of style over substance. I guess there's alot of that. To each his own.
    07-05-2007 03:29 PM
  13. mobileman's Avatar
    /\ /\ Classic case of style over substance. I guess there's alot of that. To each his own.
    I guess. Something about using the iPhone makes me happy.
    07-05-2007 03:45 PM
  14. Malatesta's Avatar
    Or wait for this article to be updated:

    http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1835131,00.asp
    Wishful thinking, but I doubt it.

    The same reason why you have to send it out instead of taking it to an Apple store.

    The battery is soldered to the logic board :thumbsdn:

    Although Apple doesn't specifically say that the battery can't be replaced by users, early examinations of the iPhone's innards confirmed that it would be nearly impossible. IFixIt.com, which conducted one of the first iPhone "tear-downs," noted that the battery is soldered to the device's logic board; a second tear-down by AnandTech.com photographed the battery's leads in a closeup that clearly showed the soldering.
    07-05-2007 03:50 PM
  15. mikec#IM's Avatar
    Wishful thinking, but I doubt it.

    The same reason why you have to send it out instead of taking it to an Apple store.

    The battery is soldered to the logic board :thumbsdn:
    You'd think they would just be swapping out the iPhone instead of unsoldering and resoldering the battery.
    07-05-2007 04:53 PM
  16. Malatesta's Avatar
    You'd think they would just be swapping out the iPhone instead of unsoldering and resoldering the battery.
    That'd be nice but then in 400 days Apple would have a huge lot of used iPhones while giving out thousands of new ones.

    They only do that in the 30-day window after purchasing.

    After that, all repairs are sent in to Apple regardless of issue. A loaner still costs $29 while it is out.
    07-05-2007 05:08 PM
  17. Certs's Avatar
    I finally made my review, for anyone interested.

    http://forum.phonedifferent.com/showthread.php?t=147186
    07-05-2007 11:18 PM
  18. KStewart's Avatar
    That'd be nice but then in 400 days Apple would have a huge lot of used iPhones while giving out thousands of new ones.

    They only do that in the 30-day window after purchasing.

    After that, all repairs are sent in to Apple regardless of issue. A loaner still costs $29 while it is out.
    Service definitely was not in mind in the developement of the iphone.
    07-05-2007 11:44 PM
  19. oalvarez's Avatar
    Service definitely was not in mind in the developement of the iphone.
    and rom updates with Palm....and form factor for that matter....and battery life.....and no wi-fi......and no crashing and no hang ups....and...

    07-06-2007 12:04 AM
  20. KStewart's Avatar
    and rom updates with Palm....and form factor for that matter....and battery life.....and no wi-fi......and no crashing and no hang ups....and...

    Nobodies perfect...
    07-06-2007 12:15 AM
  21. JohnH59's Avatar
    and rom updates with Palm....and form factor for that matter....and battery life.....and no wi-fi......and no crashing and no hang ups....and...

    Just like you say your iPhone is rock solid, my 650 and now 755 was about as solid as can be. I've had 3 resets in 6 weeks and all due to installing apps that I felt would cause a problem. I just had to test the waters. No lag, fast and I have over 30 3rd party apps installed. I guess we all get lucky once in awhile.
    07-06-2007 12:27 AM
  22. oalvarez's Avatar
    good for you JohnH59! glad to hear of your success.
    07-06-2007 12:30 AM
  23. JohnH59's Avatar
    good for you JohnH59! glad to hear of your success.
    Since most forums are "gripe" sessions, I thought since you were sharing how stable your device is that I thought it would be nice show that not all Treos are as quirky as you think.

    Have a great day!
    07-06-2007 12:38 AM
  24. oalvarez's Avatar
    au, contraire! i used to enjoy the Treo lineup until some other carrier offered the same feature set (that matched my needs) in a much smaller form factor.

    you could hardly call the 680 a smaller form factor....but maybe you and the others could? i'm sure one of you will find a way!

    have fun!
    07-06-2007 12:44 AM
  25. dstrauss#IM's Avatar
    Today's article at CNet, discussing why Apple is so successful in consumer products that are still technically solid, quoted a third party software developer in what has got to be one of the best explanations I've ever seen:

    With the iPhone--and most high-tech gadgets--the secret sauce comes down to software design, a field where the good stuff is akin to artwork. And this is where so many of the intangibles that we've come to associate with Silicon Valley come in. I put the question to Brad Meador, one of the principals at ClearContext, a San Francisco-based software developer, who said the answer boiled down to two basic elements.

    "Listen to what the market needs and strive to meet those needs in as simple a way as possible," he said. "It's a little tricky because the initial feedback you get on a new software product is usually from a more tech-savvy, early adopter crowd, a group that's prone to lead you down a path of too much complexity for the market you're ultimately trying to reach.

    "Software designers need to make sure that their products 'just work,' he continued. "Features that are buried in the user interface are unlikely to be used. Packages that require anything beyond basic configuration to provide value will lose most of their customers within minutes."


    http://news.com.com/2010-1041_3-6195...-0-5&subj=news

    I have always been one of those leading the "feature" charge...make it a Swiss army knife, and I doubt I will change. But as usual, Apple has aimed for, and hit, a major part of the public that just wants a device that works, not one that you have to immediately install VolumeCare, tweak the registry, and go through other hoops to do the things we geeks want. Face it, we may be at the top of the techno food chain, but we are a VERY SMALL minority.
    07-06-2007 09:34 AM
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