1. cmaier's Avatar
    Personally, I don't think it was ever their intention to lock out native apps entirely (at least not forever) - I suspect they did want a royalty situation of some sort. They may be trying to give their preferred partners a head start. Or they may be waiting for leopard, since many of the obvious omissions (finder, ichat) are being so radically revised for leopard and the phone definitely does share a lot of code with the desktop libraries, and they wanted to lock down the desktop SDK first. Or they may just be dribbling things out a bit at a time to grab new waves of buyers.

    If they did think they could stop unauthorized 3p from creating apps, that's pretty naive; didn't work for ipod. (There's less of it on ipod only because the hardware and interface is less capable, and because the *nix OS on the iphone gives hackers a lot more to work with). As you mention, PSP is another great example.
    08-27-2007 02:31 PM
  2. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    No "enable disk" mode for iPod features after phone is activated? But drag and drop works before the phone is activated? It actually LOSES a function? Did I miss something?
    08-27-2007 04:48 PM
  3. cmaier's Avatar
    No "enable disk" mode for iPod features after phone is activated? But drag and drop works before the phone is activated? It actually LOSES a function? Did I miss something?
    I've never tried it (i remember reading that there is some software you can download - maybe only for mac? - to enable disk mode). Whenever I plug in my iphone windows asks me if I want to open an explorer window to look at the pictures. Think it sees it as a digital camera. Never tried to see what would happen if I tried to browse it in explorer.
    08-27-2007 07:29 PM
  4. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    I thought software wasn't allowed. Is it from Apple?

    Anyway that was another minor annoyance IMO, but not that big of a deal. It actually doesn't screw up the order of playlist songs during sync, even though it looks like it will.
    08-27-2007 10:17 PM
  5. cmaier's Avatar
    The software, i believe, runs on the desktop, and is not from apple.
    08-27-2007 10:36 PM
  6. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    Doesn't handle bass heavy tracks as well as hoped. Likes to distort the sound, but this never happens on other players. Even the Nano was better. The equalizer Jazz setting helps. But it's a bit disappointing. Experimentation with another set of headphones is in order. The included ones are mediocre and this other set is better, but it seems to be the player itself with the problem handling bass.

    A set of Shures may solve the problem.

    08-28-2007 12:11 AM
  7. cmaier's Avatar
    I don't detect any noticeable difference between iphone and my "ipod photo" (remember those?) with my shures and apple lossless encoding. Haven't done a serious comparison with aac yet.

    I suspect the headphones are your problem.
    08-28-2007 12:53 AM
  8. Certs's Avatar
    Good headphones will solve that issue. I use the v-modes and they work very well.
    08-28-2007 12:56 AM
  9. mikec#IM's Avatar
    Diva,

    If you want the best earphones, esp. for low, get some FutureSonic Atrios. Theese are the best, hands down. (and I've tried nearly all of them.)

    IMHO, Shures are overpriced and underperforming, as well as uncomfortable after a while.

    The best earphones you never heard of.

    They are also excellent for comparing portable music players to see which is the best as far as playback.
    08-28-2007 02:32 AM
  10. vinman's Avatar
    Doesn't handle bass heavy tracks as well as hoped. Likes to distort the sound, but this never happens on other players. Even the Nano was better. The equalizer Jazz setting helps. But it's a bit disappointing. Experimentation with another set of headphones is in order. The included ones are mediocre and this other set is better, but it seems to be the player itself with the problem handling bass.

    A set of Shures may solve the problem.

    If you go Shure, stay AWAY from any of their "2" series. In all their lines, this represents the bottom model, and is not a good value for the money. Any of the "3" series represents a much better value, but there are far better choices out there in the same range (Etymotic, UltimateEars, etc). Specifically, you will notice (with the "2" series) a very muddy and undefined bass characteristic. There's lots of it, but no quality. If you really want to go insane, check out head-fi.org. There's more info on all things headphone-y and portable (and not so portable) than you would ever want to know over there...
    08-28-2007 09:49 AM
  11. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    Thanks, both of you!
    08-28-2007 09:53 AM
  12. cmaier's Avatar
    any of you try ultimate ears? i'm thinking of switching to the super.fi 5 pros or triple.fi 10 pros. I haven't seen much in the way of reviews of the triple.fi's.
    08-28-2007 10:29 AM
  13. oalvarez's Avatar
    any of you try ultimate ears? i'm thinking of switching to the super.fi 5 pros or triple.fi 10 pros. I haven't seen much in the way of reviews of the triple.fi's.
    my colleague owns a "middle of the range" pair and i think their design/fit/finish surpasses those of my sure e2's (which i personally like because of the ear piece design). i also own a pair of sure e3c's which to me offer a beautiful sound but don't fit my ear as well as my e2's. bottom line, ultimate ears sound great and look to be of better quality than either of my sure headphones.
    08-28-2007 11:00 AM
  14. Mike Overbo's Avatar
    I don't think they want a royalty situation. Development on OSX has been free throughout.

    The iPhone runs Darwin v9, my mac with 10.4 runs Darwin 8.10. This probably means that the development kit (XCode) for the iPhone is tied to Leopard, the upcoming OSX release.

    By the way, I'm pretty sure that Steve Jobs would be happy to have UNIX on the iPhone; he founded NeXT, a UNIX computer company, after he was forced out of Apple.

    Personally, I don't think it was ever their intention to lock out native apps entirely (at least not forever) - I suspect they did want a royalty situation of some sort. They may be trying to give their preferred partners a head start. Or they may be waiting for leopard, since many of the obvious omissions (finder, ichat) are being so radically revised for leopard and the phone definitely does share a lot of code with the desktop libraries, and they wanted to lock down the desktop SDK first. Or they may just be dribbling things out a bit at a time to grab new waves of buyers.

    If they did think they could stop unauthorized 3p from creating apps, that's pretty naive; didn't work for ipod. (There's less of it on ipod only because the hardware and interface is less capable, and because the *nix OS on the iphone gives hackers a lot more to work with). As you mention, PSP is another great example.
    08-28-2007 11:12 AM
  15. surur's Avatar
    By the way, I'm pretty sure that Steve Jobs would be happy to have UNIX on the iPhone; he founded NeXT, a UNIX computer company, after he was forced out of Apple.
    I think its the user-accessible shell which is the problem.

    Surur
    08-28-2007 11:26 AM
  16. cmaier's Avatar
    I don't think they want a royalty situation. Development on OSX has been free throughout.

    The iPhone runs Darwin v9, my mac with 10.4 runs Darwin 8.10. This probably means that the development kit (XCode) for the iPhone is tied to Leopard, the upcoming OSX release.

    By the way, I'm pretty sure that Steve Jobs would be happy to have UNIX on the iPhone; he founded NeXT, a UNIX computer company, after he was forced out of Apple.
    The question is whether they want a macos development model or an ipod development model. Where's xcode for ipod? I think they are more likely to go the ipod way than the desktop way, but we'll see.
    08-28-2007 12:43 PM
  17. vinman's Avatar
    any of you try ultimate ears? i'm thinking of switching to the super.fi 5 pros or triple.fi 10 pros. I haven't seen much in the way of reviews of the triple.fi's.
    UEs are very nice across the board. I'm currently beta testing a set of iPhone specific UEs based on the Metro.fi (their lowest end) and it FAR surpasses the sound quality of the comparable Shures. I'm betting it will be a little less expensive, too - but at the very least cost comaparable.

    Take the advice (or warning) I gave Phone Diva - check out head-fi.org. You'll find LOTS of info over there on UE and all sorts of other earbuds, iems, headphones, portable amps, dacs, etc. It's a bad place to go if you like high quality sound and live on a normal budget!
    08-28-2007 01:10 PM
  18. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    The Apple store in Chicago quit selling Ultimate Ears. There were none to be found when I went there yesterday.

    Their pet brand is Shure, that was the first brand the salesperson pulled out. I have a pair of Shures E2c already actually, maybe I'll just use those.
    08-28-2007 01:35 PM
  19. cmaier's Avatar
    I've heard great things about the shure e500's. Expensive, though.
    08-28-2007 02:22 PM
  20. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    They're the cost of an iPhone, LOL! There's no way.
    I think $200 is my absolute limit on earphones. And if I can find a good pair cheaper, I may try them.

    08-28-2007 02:49 PM
  21. vinman's Avatar
    They're the cost of an iPhone, LOL! There's no way.
    I think $200 is my absolute limit on earphones. And if I can find a good pair cheaper, I may try them.

    Seems like around $150 is a magic number for earphones (canal phones). You have the decent, actual improved models starting at around $30, the next decent improvement seems to come in around $100. Then, at $150, you start finding some real "audiophile" quality sound where you can consistently start detecting flaws in your equipment and even in the recording process.

    You have a LOT of choices in the <$200 range, Phone Diva. The majority of them will sound better than the E2Cs. Having said that, compared to most less expensive earbuds, the E2Cs are very nice - it's all very subjective. We're also WELL into the law of diminishing returns with earbuds costing over about $50. You'll find no shortage of people over on head-fi who have spent +/- $1000 on earbuds (MUCH more than that for actual headphones), and literally thousands on gear such as headphone specific amps, preamps, dacs, etc. As far as the earbuds go, though, realistically the difference in a set of stock iBuds and a set of $100 Sonys is going to be FAR greater than the difference in the $100 Sonys and a set of $500 Shure E530s. Again, most of the differences in sound are very subjective. One thing you'll find universally true, though - you'll have a hard time finding anyone who has used Bose products and has any experience with other high end brands who will recommend Bose. Basically, for the cost of admission, Bose does NOT make good, accurate sound. Whether you LIKE Bose sound is personal. This is (arguably) true for speakers, as well. Some folks swear that Bose makes the best sounding stuff out there. I've never met an audiophile who agrees - myself included.

    Basically, if you have a budget you can spend on new 'buds - try some out. You WILL replace the E2Cs - almost certainly. If you never try anything else, however, you will probably live through using them and be just fine and +/- $200 richer!

    By the way - if the "test" phone in your sig line is the iPhone, wait just a little longer and the Ultimate Ears iPhone model will be out. They sound REALLY good, and even though they're based on UE's least expensive model, they sound as good as my modified Sony EX90s (which were more expensive and sound REALLY good, too!). Plus, you'll get the same click and double click functionality as the iBuds and the E2Ci (and the Vibes and a few others) and a mic.
    08-28-2007 04:04 PM
  22. mikec#IM's Avatar
    I've tried UE's, and while better than Shures, I still think they don't warrant the price for what you get.

    Shure's, imho, tend to be tinny, all the way up the line. Low and mid range suffer. I guess they are okay for classical, but for general listening, found them fair to poor, depending on model. Also, the fit isn't very good.

    I'm telling you, FutureSonic Atrios are the best out there. Get a foam sleeve and the sound isolation is good.

    I think they run about $150...but the sound is like $1,000. Seriously.

    Their name is goofy compared to Bose or Shure, but they blow the other away.
    08-28-2007 04:29 PM
  23. darakaye2's Avatar
    Icali has a quick, awesome podsact on the jesusPhone....bunch of good little tid bitties
    08-28-2007 04:30 PM
  24. archie's Avatar
    HAHAHAHA!!!
    So I just got back from lunc, listening to the PhoneDifferent podcast put together by mike and dieter.

    They were saying that this thread had a big discussion without any resolution of whether or not the iPhone has virtual memory and inturn using paging I assume?


    First, the iPhone has more than the 128MB as you two noted in the podcast; you are forgetting about the 1GB embedded on the CPU.

    Second, and more importantly, you are forgetting (or are probably just unaware) about Apple's use of LLVM. It only loads the parts of applications that are needed. This does away with paging and virtual memory as you know it.

    More efficient this way.

    You can thank Apple for it's pioneering use of "LLVM" and i'ts contributions back to the community AND you can also thank Apple for the development of "launchd" to constantly control these processes and their contributions that they have given back to the open source community in this regard as well.


    Probably tough for people here to swallow.



    Can't be
    08-28-2007 04:52 PM
  25. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    The touch response seems a little to the left on the virtual keys. Maybe it's a quirk of this one, but I notice going dead center on the button often hits the next letter. If I tap a little to the left on the button, it's accurate.
    08-28-2007 05:16 PM
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