1. mikec#IM's Avatar
    Using two hands mean one has to hold the device while the other taps or pinches...if you do otherwise it would mean you are holding and tapping/pinching with the same hand. If you discount the hand holding the device then you are missing the point, esp as other devices like treos allow browsing and holding the device with the same hand.
    Bingo.
    08-07-2007 10:07 AM
  2. mikec#IM's Avatar
    What? Yahoo push e-mail not real push e-mail after all? And even fakes it poorly too?


    http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=1216812

    Surur
    (putting on iPologist hat)

    C'mon, it's not like Apple said it was going to be true push, like a Blackberry......oh wait, they did.

    But they didn't really mean it, just sorta. That was just part of the hype. We didn't think you'd actually test it....

    C'mon, it's only 5 years ahead of eveything else and cost $600. What do you expect - us to deliver a premium device AND be honest?
    08-07-2007 10:11 AM
  3. mikec#IM's Avatar
    I guess the iPhone was the 1st phone you ever typed on then as the others were "unusable"
    To be fair to mobileman, he was referring to the HTC Touch, not all phones, in that post.
    08-07-2007 10:16 AM
  4. mikec#IM's Avatar
    The iPhone is still under warranty. I don't need AppleCare until the standard warranty runs out, and I can buy AppleCare up to 364 days after the initial purchase if I think I'll need it. This isn't really a phone I'm worried about dropping.

    regarding hands, guilty as charged :o
    Nothing wrong with man-hands, Elaine ;-)

    (I figured we has a 9/11 reference, so we just had to have a Seinfeld one.)

    I'm still waiting to see what happended to PattyCert and the dropped iPhone.
    08-07-2007 10:23 AM
  5. surur's Avatar
    To be fair to mobileman, he was referring to the HTC Touch, not all phones, in that post.
    I just downloaded this iPhone clone, and it works pretty well. I guess those 200 patents are useless if you are not going to enforce them...

    http://pocketcm.com/keyboard.php

    Surur
    08-07-2007 10:30 AM
  6. oalvarez's Avatar
    ^ pretty cool indeed but if the keyboard is the same size as those found on Treos i'd imagine that a stylus would be required. yes/no?
    08-07-2007 11:05 AM
  7. marcol's Avatar
    This seems relevant here.

    iPhone Owners: "We Like It, But..."

    Our survey of 500 iPhone owners reveals that, though most are happy overall, they have lots of suggestions.


    The honeymoon isn't over. A little more than a month after the Apple iPhone went on sale, nearly 90 percent of iPhone owners who answered a PC World survey said that they love their almost-new toy. But they also had a few complaints--most notably regarding the iPhone's voice and data networks--and lots of suggestions.

    About 13 percent of our respondents said that they'd run into at least one significant problem with their device in the past month. The most common culprit: the battery.

    "It is a fantastic device," raves one iPhone owner. "Way beyond my old Treo 700W, which almost seems like an antique rotary phone by comparison. The iPhone is the first and only truly integrated communicator." An overwhelming majority (88 percent) of the survey's nearly 500 respondents rated themselves as very or extremely satisfied with their new phone.

    What the iPhone Does Right

    The iPhone received its highest marks for music and video playback: About 90 percent of respondents were very or extremely satisfied with the iPhone's ability to entertain. "As an iPod, it's really good. The simplified navigation is awesome," one reader said.

    Survey participants were slightly less pleased with the iPhone's performance as a phone, but even so 84 percent of respondents gave the device high marks on that aspect of its duties. The iPhone also earned widespread praise for its Web browsing abilities, which 83 percent of respondents found very or extremely satisfying.

    In connection with its hardware and native software, the iPhone's lowest marks for satisfaction involved the camera (46 percent were highly satisfied) and the built-in widgets (62 percent were happy as clams).

    What's Not to Like

    The iPhone suffered its biggest negatives for the voice and data network it's married to--the AT&T system. A whopping 40 percent of our survey respondents expressed some level of dissatisfaction with the speed of AT&T's EDGE data network, which tops out at 200 kilobits per second and often performs at half that speed, according to Broadband Reports.

    The voice quality of the iPhone on AT&T's network seems to be cutting into satisfaction with the iPhone experience, too: Among our poll respondents, only 61 percent rated themselves as very satisfied or extremely satisfied with the voice quality of the AT&T network, and even fewer characterized themselves as satisfied with the voice network coverage.

    In our pool of respondents, 59 people (13 percent) said that they had experienced a "significant problem" with their iPhone--not an inconsiderable number, but not surprising for a first-generation device. One-third of those who had encountered problems complained about the battery, a quarter griped about the touch screen, 24 percent reported issues involving the Safari browser, and 24 percent had difficulties with other device software. (The total exceeds 100 percent because respondents were free to report more than one problem.)

    "The browser crashes from time to time," one respondent said. "And less frequently, video playback crashes, too."
    http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,13...e/article.html
    08-07-2007 11:20 AM
  8. Iceman6's Avatar
    Thanks, Marcol. It's good to get a reality check into this fantasyland thread.
    08-07-2007 11:24 AM
  9. marcol's Avatar
    ^ pretty cool indeed but if the keyboard is the same size as those found on Treos i'd imagine that a stylus would be required. yes/no?
    By and large people seem to like the iPhone keyboard but I wonder how much of that is due to clever software and how much is due to the capacitive screen. Might be interesting if someone put this on a resistive screen device (with a screen the same width as the iPhone screen) and compared. I guess the software isn't exactly the same but it might give us some idea.
    08-07-2007 11:29 AM
  10. marcol's Avatar
    Thanks, Marcol. It's good to get a reality check into this fantasyland thread.
    I think the anecdotal stuff has its place, but as someone one said in one of the Apple support forums, coming here and looking for positive opinions is like going to a hospital and looking for health
    08-07-2007 11:31 AM
  11. surur's Avatar
    ^ pretty cool indeed but if the keyboard is the same size as those found on Treos i'd imagine that a stylus would be required. yes/no?
    You can type with your fingers, and it auto-corrects pretty well. I guess you returned your Mongul yesterday, so you cant give it a try. Its pretty good actually, but would probably be even better on a 3.5 inch screen.

    Surur
    08-07-2007 11:52 AM
  12. surur's Avatar
    I believe we have already established iPhone owners are uninformed fanboys, and would not know a good phone if it hit them upside the head.

    Surur
    08-07-2007 11:53 AM
  13. mikec#IM's Avatar
    ^ pretty cool indeed but if the keyboard is the same size as those found on Treos i'd imagine that a stylus would be required. yes/no?
    No stylus is required. A bit smaller than the keys on the iPhone, but still works pretty well. (esp. for version 0.1).

    Usable compared the tiny default virtual keyboard.

    FYI...if you install on Treo, you only get two rows of keys (just in case you want to test it.

    But on a larger screen (ex. Mogul) is seems to be okay (my buddy installed it on his and thought it was decent.)
    08-07-2007 11:58 AM
  14. marcol's Avatar
    Thanks, Marcol. It's good to get a reality check into this fantasyland thread.
    Yes, I see what you mean
    08-07-2007 12:00 PM
  15. mikec#IM's Avatar
    By and large people seem to like the iPhone keyboard but I wonder how much of that is due to clever software and how much is due to the capacitive screen. Might be interesting if someone put this on a resistive screen device (with a screen the same width as the iPhone screen) and compared. I guess the software isn't exactly the same but it might give us some idea.
    It would be interesting to compare; my initial thought on seeing it on a "fuller screen" device this that it's the 80/20 rule; 80% software, 20% hardware.

    But the iPhone one is a little more spacious, and also has no raised sides, so that adds to the better use of it.
    08-07-2007 12:07 PM
  16. mikec#IM's Avatar
    FYI...the PCM keyboard does not do a clean uninstall; after it is removed, it is still a selectable (but non-working) option under inputs.
    08-07-2007 12:08 PM
  17. oalvarez's Avatar
    You can type with your fingers, and it auto-corrects pretty well. I guess you returned your Mongul yesterday, so you cant give it a try. Its pretty good actually, but would probably be even better on a 3.5 inch screen.

    Surur
    that sounds like a great alternative. having said that, it would make having a device with a slideout keyboard (and bulkiness attributed to it) unnecessary.
    08-07-2007 12:20 PM
  18. surur's Avatar
    that sounds like a great alternative. having said that, it would make the having a device with a slideout keyboard (and bulkiness attributed to it) unnecessary.
    Its not that good

    I dont think a virtual keyboard can ever substitute for a good hard keyboard if you enter significant volumes of text (maybe 200-400 words per day). In the western WM world you have a choice - either you enter a lot of text, and a keyboarded device is necessary, or you use your device more for output, and a tablet-type device is more suitable.

    Surur
    08-07-2007 12:48 PM
  19. vinman's Avatar
    Glad it's working for you.

    Wait...did you say you don't miss one handed use? This implies you ned two hand to use it...wait a sec, mobileman was saying it works perfectly well one-handedly....hmmm. I believe you are stating the trvth, as MM has a poor track record in that area....

    For me, one handed operation is a must have; that is why, regardless of how pretty and cool those clamshells are, I will have to pass on them.
    Actually, that sig line is a relic from my transition from a 650 to an 8125. Honestly, I use the iPhone one handed about 80% of the time - yes, even typing. The only times I use it with both hands are when browsing some sites and when watching videos.

    All bs aside, I really love using this thing. It's been very intuitive to learn. Don't misunderstand, it's far from perfect - but closer than any of the devices I've used to date. Actually, in my opinion, one of the most hyped features of the iPhone - Google Maps - is the worst implemented and least intuitive apps. Maybe it's just too oversimplified for my brain, but I have a hard time really getting into it. I found GMM easier to use on the 8125/8525 because my interface options weren't as limited. With Apple's implementation, I can't, for example, pinpoint a location then access a menu to use it as a starting point to create directions from (well, not in the same way I could with the WM implementation of the application). I used GMM A LOT on the HTC/WM platform. Now, not so much. That's about the only complaint I have worth voicing - and the app DOES work, just not the way I'd like for it to.

    It'll take something tremendously revolutionary and unimaginably well implemented to pull me back into WM or Palm OSs after using this product. Keep in mind, too, that in all likelihood, there are some disabled features that will be enabled in the not too distant future. Even if not, I don't regret my purchase in the least. I finally have a converged device that I'm not constantly cursing and threatening to heave off the next bridge I cross...
    08-07-2007 01:19 PM
  20. Slingbox's Avatar
    Thanks, Marcol. It's good to get a reality check into this fantasy land thread.
    Sorry Marcol you seem a little lost ....the Michael Jackson iphone fantasy land thread you seek can be found at
    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...d.php?t=148625
    It needs some postings :cry:
    08-07-2007 02:51 PM
  21. mikec#IM's Avatar
    My favorite quote from Jobs today:

    "Our products are usually not premium priced."

    No iPhone news, just that they are happy with it's success.
    08-07-2007 03:05 PM
  22. cmaier's Avatar
    My favorite quote from Jobs today:

    "Our products are usually not premium priced."

    No iPhone news, just that they are happy with it's success.
    Actually, one new iphone feature (publish photo from iphone to .mac web gallery, and synch back from web gallery. I'm not clear if the synching is wireless, but it sounded like it might be) was announced, so should be a firmware update shortly.

    And, of course, several of the announced mac software upgrades now have support for iphone.
    08-07-2007 03:34 PM
  23. Denny Crane's Avatar
    I believe we have already established iPhone owners are uninformed fanboys, and would not know a good phone if it hit them upside the head.

    Surur
    And we have established that you are an iPhone hater and would degrade any device that puts your piece of crap phone to shame.......
    08-07-2007 09:16 PM
  24. Slingbox's Avatar
    Mr Crane The iPhone cant put any current ppc to shame .I really do wish Apple could have stepped up with a device that could of changed the hand held market to the positive but they failed....Copy & Past really does work for us left behind in WX land lol lol.
    When or If you choose to respond to my very simple post I will be alerted by real Push mail to my WX.....WOW huh ..not bad for are outdated devices lol lol.
    Let me know if you need any cab files built.I will be more then happy to help

    Phil C
    08-07-2007 09:41 PM
  25. bruckwine's Avatar
    Actually, one new iphone feature (publish photo from iphone to .mac web gallery, and synch back from web gallery. I'm not clear if the synching is wireless, but it sounded like it might be) was announced, so should be a firmware update shortly.

    And, of course, several of the announced mac software upgrades now have support for iphone.
    Do you really consider those "features"? they should've been there from the start (esp. considering its apple products) and them allowing that is not what I would call a new phone feature, esp if it cannot be used outside of the iBubble. And that is a general criticism of ALL manufacturers/producers/companies who come out with something like louder volume or such and cal it a new feature. The iPhone already had wifi and Edge so why couldn't it sync with .mac before? Cut & paste or video camera (through some firmware of course ) etc would be a real update (imho mind you - let's not wiki this one to death!).
    08-07-2007 09:45 PM
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